German Cruisers

[VonPletz]

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Hanszeehock, on 07 October 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

 

I've been testing the German cruisers. The AA is very weak on all but the T10. They do not have the AA consumable ability either.

 

They definitely need to buff the AA guns on the German Cruisers giving it better range not add more guns.  For example:

 

Tier 8,9,10 WOWS German Cruisers all carry 105mm Guns for AA protection but only get a 5.0 range;  but the 105mm cannon (same gun) on the Tier 2 and 3 cruiser have a range of 9.8 km.  Also, most of the AA guns on the lower tier German Cruisers are 88mm cannon but WOWS only gives them 3km to 5km range. The Des Moines has 76mm guns with a range of 6km.(WTF???)  How is it that a 76mm gun has a longer range than a 88mm gun.  That to me does not seem logical.

 

Don't increase the number of AA guns just increase the range for the AA guns on German cruisers would be the logical correction to me.

 

Most German Naval Cruisers were armed with 8.8 cm/78 (3.46") SK C/31 AA guns beginning in 1933.  They fired 20 rounds a minute with a range of 17,800 meter (17km) having a ceiling of 13,300 meters (13km).  To give these guns only a 3km to 5km range seems very unreasonable. 

 

 

 

 

[mrak1979]

 

They definitely need to buff the AA guns on the German Cruisers giving it better range not add more guns.  For example:

 

Tier 8,9,10 WOWS German Cruisers all carry 105mm Guns for AA protection but only get a 5.0 range;  but the 105mm cannon (same gun) on the Tier 2 and 3 cruiser have a range of 9.8 km.  Also, most of the AA guns on the lower tier German Cruisers are 88mm cannon but WOWS only gives them 3km to 5km range. The Des Moines has 76mm guns with a range of 6km.(WTF???)  How is it that a 76mm gun has a longer range than a 88mm gun.  That to me does not seem logical.

 

Don't increase the number of AA guns just increase the range for the AA guns on German cruisers would be the logical correction to me.

 

Most German Naval Cruisers were armed with 8.8 cm/78 (3.46") SK C/31 AA guns beginning in 1933.  They fired 20 rounds a minute with a range of 17,800 meter (17km) having a ceiling of 13,300 meters (13km).  To give these guns only a 3km to 5km range seems very unreasonable. 

 

 

 

 

Wake up! This is arcade game there isnt anything historical:-) I may use same argument to another and another stuffs. All have done for game balance.

[VonPletz]

PhlyDaily just confirmed what I have been saying all along about the German Cruisers.  They are going to be ships made of glass and cannons that, even when they hit square on target, can't penetrate.(who cares how many round per minute or the range if the do no damage) For your viewing pleasure...the horrid Admiral Hipper Tier8 Cruiser.

 

 

 

mrak1979, on 09 October 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

 

Wake up! This is arcade game there isnt anything historical:-) I may use same argument to another and another stuffs. All have done for game balance.

 

DUDE...!

 

I understand it is a game but when you add on the WEAK armor, the WEAK shell damage, the horrid detection ranges (for ships know to be stealth raiders), and the very poor AA; this just is unfair pile on against the German Cruisers. 

 

This entire line needs to be buffed significantly just to bring it with the other ships of their tier....you know where they promise (in their videos)  of "Hard Hitting Batteries" and "Tough to Crack Armor"  to use they quotes....that to put it nicely....IT IS FALSE! 

 

The stats when they released them did not support it and now the gameplay by many many people...(SideStrafe, iChase, Cloaking Donkey, BaronVonGamer, etc...etc...) prove the great deficiencies WOWS has given the entire German Cruiser line.

 

Just to reinforce what I mean...look again at their introduction:

 

 

[Exocet6951]

 

They definitely need to buff the AA guns on the German Cruisers giving it better range not add more guns.  For example:

 

Tier 8,9,10 WOWS German Cruisers all carry 105mm Guns for AA protection but only get a 5.0 range;  but the 105mm cannon (same gun) on the Tier 2 and 3 cruiser have a range of 9.8 km.

That's the case for basically every single ship's DP secondaries. The reason? Balance. Because most ships get 127mm DP mounts, that have about 12km range. That would be super fun for carriers, losing planes randomly, and super fun for ships, constantly spotted because of automatic fire on planes 12km away.

 

 

Also, most of the AA guns on the lower tier German Cruisers are 88mm cannon but WOWS only gives them 3km to 5km range. The Des Moines has 76mm guns with a range of 6km.(WTF???)  How is it that a 76mm gun has a longer range than a 88mm gun.  That to me does not seem logical.

Caliber doesn't always determine range, IRL. The British 17 pounder gun is a 76.2mm gun, but offers better range than the Russian 85mm D-5 guns. Also, balance. Des Moines already has a tough to use, not very awe inspiring AA. Giving it low range would just be cruel.

 

 

Don't increase the number of AA guns just increase the range for the AA guns on German cruisers would be the logical correction to me.

The Germans have access to 3.7cm and 5.5cm gun mounts with 3.5km and 4.5km range, respectively. And those aren't very low damage DP mounts, they're legit AA guns. Granted there aren't a lot of them so the damage is underwhelming, and they could boost that, but the Germans already have good AA range compare to the other nations.

 

Most German Naval Cruisers were armed with 8.8 cm/78 (3.46") SK C/31 AA guns beginning in 1933.  They fired 20 rounds a minute with a range of 17,800 meter (17km) having a ceiling of 13,300 meters (13km).  To give these guns only a 3km to 5km range seems very unreasonable. 

Again, you can argue IRL performances all you want, but look at what happens to the other guns of that category. Same deal. It's because of balance. Because you can't have planes being shot out of the sky at 17km.

Also, point of interest, max range isn't maximum effective range. Shooting down a monoseat fighter, or a two/three seater light bomber that's not moving in a large formation at more than 5km with flak is like trying to thread a needle with boxing gloves. During a boxing match. There are stories of German 88 crews not bothering to fire at allied fighters that weren't a direct threat to them, to conserve ammo.

 

The only time ranges of over 10km were used with those guns was to shoot at heavy bomber formations, that flew in boxes of 12-64 planes, with at times over 10 boxes. Those are dozens to hundreds of slow flying massive 4 engined bombers. 

 

 

However, while I disagree on the finer points of how you wish to buff AA, I do agree that something be done. The current numbers are....unsatisfactory, and coupled with very low armor, an low damage guns that don't really make up for it with RoF...German cruisers aren't looking too healthy.

 

 

Answers in bold

[VonPletz]

 

Answers in bold

 

Thanks!  I agree something needs to be done because this line of ships is severely lacking in soo many areas that the least they could do is give it some reason to live. 

 

[Nefczi]

PhlyDaily just confirmed what I have been saying all along about the German Cruisers.  They are going to be ships made of glass and cannons that, even when they hit square on target, can't penetrate.(who cares how many round per minute or the range if the do no damage) For your viewing pleasure...the horrid Admiral Hipper Tier8 Cruiser.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but he confirmed nothing In first battle he was unluckily detonated. In second he wasnt simply paying attention.  After first salvo from a BB he just kept going same direction, without changing course much, and if you look at map, he was the only target for those two battleships in the middle. It was obvious that they gonna keep pounding on him. Angling your armor only slightly, like he did, doesnt stop/bounce BB shells. If he was in IJN cruiser he would die as fast, and probably even faster if he was in US one  I think he havent played any cruisers for a while a he was very careless.

 

As for guns, hard to judge since he only managed to score 16 hits all together, in 2 games. From what I seen from some small bits of the gameplay, those german guns seems to be doing quite a lot of damage with AP ammo, even to batlteships. But its hard to confirm as most of youtubers insist on shooting HE, while its clear that this type of ammo is horrible in case of german guns.

[psl_58]

I wonder at what range are German Hipper cruisers getting "citadeled" and with what guns?

[broja_jacra]

Not impressed with the german cruisers.

In this game HE dmg capability and fire chance percentage is the bread and butter of the cruisers.

You get poor and ineffective He shells, you get a poor and ineffective cruiser.

The only ones that look fun in the whole tree are the tier 2 and 5.....other then that....just ineffective HE spamming cruisers with pensacola-esque armour and citadel.

 

Cruisers are far more than just HE spammers you know

[mortuus82]

what damage has the cruisers then on ap and he ? is it that low but better rate of fire then russians and americans ?

[VonPletz]

 

 

Sorry but he confirmed nothing In first battle he was unluckily detonated. In second he wasnt simply paying attention.  After first salvo from a BB he just kept going same direction, without changing course much, and if you look at map, he was the only target for those two battleships in the middle. It was obvious that they gonna keep pounding on him. Angling your armor only slightly, like he did, doesnt stop/bounce BB shells. If he was in IJN cruiser he would die as fast, and probably even faster if he was in US one  I think he havent played any cruisers for a while a he was very careless.

 

As for guns, hard to judge since he only managed to score 16 hits all together, in 2 games. From what I seen from some small bits of the gameplay, those german guns seems to be doing quite a lot of damage with AP ammo, even to batlteships. But its hard to confirm as most of youtubers insist on shooting HE, while its clear that this type of ammo is horrible in case of german guns.

 

Suggest you go out to YouTube and see all the game play from the Press accounts.  Then you will see how poor the German Cruisers are in gameplay.  I just used this one because it really showed when he hit a ship there was NO damage.  But there are plenty out there that back up that FACT.

 

[Tigger3]

what damage has the cruisers then on ap and he ? is it that low but better rate of fire then russians and americans ?

 

 

Suggest you go out to YouTube and see all the game play from the Press accounts.  Then you will see how poor the German Cruisers are in gameplay.  I just used this one because it really showed when he hit a ship there was NO damage.  But there are plenty out there that back up that FACT.

 

 

I just got the tier V German Cruiser the Konigsburg apart from slow turret traverse it was fun and pretty good although I kept it at range.

 

Just had my first game in it 206 hits, only fired HE and mostly at long range, 49442 damage with 11 fires set for 25715 damage - mostly hits on battleships.

 

Its my first tier V and seems interesting, recieved 2 HE hits for 2579 damage so cant say how survivable it is. 

 

Wyoming 89 hits sunk

Wyoming 12 hits

Furutaka 21 hits, 2 incapacitations

Minekaze 3 hits, 4 incapacitations

Wyoming 41 hits

New York 33 hits

kuma 7 hits, 2 incapacitations

[VonPletz]

 

 

I just got the tier V German Cruiser the Konigsburg apart from slow turret traverse it was fun and pretty good although I kept it at range.

 

Just had my first game in it 206 hits, only fired HE and mostly at long range, 49442 damage with 11 fires set for 25715 damage - mostly hits on battleships.

 

Its my first tier V and seems interesting, recieved 2 HE hits for 2579 damage so cant say how survivable it is. 

 

Wyoming 89 hits sunk

Wyoming 12 hits

Furutaka 21 hits, 2 pens

Minekaze 3 hits, 4 pens (Don't ask me how)

Wyoming 41 hits

New York 33 hits

kuma 7 hits, 2 pens

 

89 hits on a Wyoming to sink it, 41 hits on another Wyoming and did not stop it, 21 hits to a Furutaka and did not kill it,  33 hits on a New York with no effect.  I think that says volumes to the inability of the German Shells and how WOWs has really nerf-ed the entire German Line.  Proves my point...that German shells are total crap and WOWs needs to buff them.

 

[LMN118]

Back up to tier 5 at the moment, with the exception of the tier 2 Dresden the line is very mediocre. Looking at the stats of the ships going up the line and they are significantly lacking...in pretty much everything. 

 

It may be true the German ships have a range advantage but in my experience having a range advantage doesn't necessarily mean much. The lack of AA is worrying, it doesn't appear the cruisers have a role to play. But will see. I wish people would stop posting one match as a basis for if the ship is any good, every dog has its day as they saying goes. 

[Gatt]

 

89 hits on a Wyoming to sink it, 41 hits on another Wyoming and did not stop it, 21 hits to a Furutaka and did not kill it,  33 hits on a New York with no effect.  I think that says volumes to the inability of the German Shells and how WOWs has really nerf-ed the entire German Line.  Proves my point...that German shells are total crap and WOWs needs to buff them.

 

 

Not only german shells are crap. Armor are crap as well. Even IJN cruisers seem strong now. 80mm vertical armor at Tier VIII? Will we see Hippers always running away from enemy? Great fighting style, indeed.

[Peddersen]

I am now playing the Karlsruhe and my impression so far with the German cruisers is:

Hermelin - T1 and about the worst ship of that tier I played so far. At least it got decent AA capabilities. Ok, I do not know what I need that for but at least it can shoot down planes pretty good. But yeah, it is just a T1-ship and so the grind is not long to get to a T2.

Dresden - I liked that one a lot. It is like a machine gun. Ok, the damage output is not that good but it fires a lot and true. I can also understand that the fire chance for the HE is so low. Afterall you hit more often than the other ships.

Kolberg - It is even better than the Dresden and fires much faster. I like that one a lot.

Karlsruhe - Yeah... I still do not know what it's good sides are. I think there are some but according to the values it is totally inferior to every other ship of it's tier (which is quite funny since the description says that it was one of the most powerful cruisers of it's time). Can somebody post a guide how to play that ship. Otherwise it will be very tough to get to T5.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

havent ever played worse ships in this game

 

well German ships have to be bad, it is a WG game after all

[ammattimies]

havent ever played worse ships in this game

 

well German ships have to be bad, it is a WG game after all

 

Hmm, would be nice to know what you base this accusement on...

 

In World of Tanks, German tanks are great imo? Well-played E-100 or E-50 / E-50M's are total beasts and very strong in many ways, for example. Whenever I really wanted to win in WoT, I take out my E-100. They might not be as noobfriendly as the Soviets in general but that on the other hand is another discussion...

[ShockPirat]

Haven't read the whole thread, so this might have been mentioned already, but in case it wasn't....

 

Germans get much better sonar ability than other nations. It increases proximity spot range to a little over 5km, meaning you will see a ship completely concealed in smoke/behind an island at that distances (other cruisers get about 3.5km). I don't remember what the sonar distance for spotting torpedos is, but it's better than for other cruisers. I killed a Farragut that was completely in smoke and 5kms away a few days ago, and he called me out for hacking the sonar ability actually might be better than defensive AA for these cruisers.

So, with their fast firing and accurate guns + buffed sonar, they should be the best DD screens in the game.

 

...to bad other DDs and planes do that job adequately already

[Fysman]

Only played Karlsruhe a couple of games and first impressions are: Worst ship i've played in this game! Terrible speed and turning, crapguns with only 8% fire chance and bad range, useless torps. Koningsberg i tried before and it's better i know. But probably wont bother with the 18k exp grind in Karlsruhe to get it....

[kyngarin]

Xp are so bad.. i hit 125 times, from AP to HE, on 3 different ships...  Even though we won, i got a whooping 148 XP

 

What' wrong with this ship?

 

[BuccaneerBill]

Xp are so bad.. i hit 125 times, from AP to HE, on 3 different ships...  Even though we won, i got a whooping 148 XP

 

What' wrong with this ship?

 

 

whats wrong with you?

[kyngarin]

 

whats wrong with you?

 

Way to derail the topic. That amount of hit's, taking more than 50% of a BB's health, should result in alot more points than 148 xp, for a win.

 

 

[Barkeley]

Only played Karlsruhe a couple of games and first impressions are: Worst ship i've played in this game! Terrible speed and turning, crapguns with only 8% fire chance and bad range, useless torps. Koningsberg i tried before and it's better i know. But probably wont bother with the 18k exp grind in Karlsruhe to get it....

 

 Played both a bit. Fail to see how Koningsberg is any significantly better, considering she's playing in a  +1 Tier. For me, both are close to crap.   

 

e.g. both HE damage = 1700 , just ridiculous. 

[Nefczi]

Did they messed up something with AP ammo when they buffed the damage?

Before tree release I was able to score citadels quite easly with AP with Koningsberg. Im currently on Karlsruhe and cant score any citadel hits with those 150mm guns, just pumped around 30 shells into a Kuma showing me perfect broadside(at 5-6km) and wasnt able to score single citadel. Maybe I was just insanely unlucky. Its just strange.

 

 

EDIT: Another match, fought Pheonix and other Karlsruhe under 10 km, scored many AP hit to their broadsides, not a single citadel. Pheonix could citadel me easly. Either im really unlucky or there is somethign wrong here.

 

EDIT2: Finally... managed to score one a citadel hit against Tenryu, at 3km point blak range. Before pumped around 40 AP shells against Omaha and kuma without results. Something is messed up seriously here. I woudl score a lot of citadels if those were US 152mm guns. THe diference in effectivness cannot be that huge amonth those two calibers.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

 

Hmm, would be nice to know what you base this accusement on...

 

In World of Tanks, German tanks are great imo? Well-played E-100 or E-50 / E-50M's are total beasts and very strong in many ways, for example. Whenever I really wanted to win in WoT, I take out my E-100. They might not be as noobfriendly as the Soviets in general but that on the other hand is another discussion...

 

1. i played WoT for about 5 years (since closed beta)

2. i mainly played german tanks (which was a huge mistake)

3. i was a supertester for WoT

4. there is no Gold ammo in WoWs (and dont tell me you play your E-100 with normal AP/HE ammo thats [edited])