German Cruisers

[Aguirre23]

According to german site buffed.de this will be the final cruiser line for se germans. Lets not discuss their guesses for DDs et cetera but the officially confirmed cruisers in light blue. 

 

http://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warships-Spiel-42981/Specials/World-of-Warships-Special-deutsche-flotte-forschungsbaum-german-techtree-1165991/

 

Especially the top tiers look terrible. The Tier8 Admiral Hipper is a '37 heavy cruiser, which should be totally fine, but the Tier9 Roon is supposed to be a 1902 armored cruiser? Wtf? Just look at the damn thing:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Roon

 

Now at Tier10 we supposedly get a 1915 Battlecruiser with 305mm guns which was scuttled over 25 years prior to the Des Moines even being laid down? Looks fun. 

[zFireWyvern]

Especially the top tiers look terrible. The Tier8 Admiral Hipper is a '37 heavy cruiser, which should be totally fine, but the Tier9 Roon is supposed to be a 1902 armored cruiser? Wtf? Just look at the damn thing:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Roon

The tier IX is not going to be that Roon, it's most likely one of the projects/plans. Definitely NOT and 1902 armoured cruiser.

[Diminios]

If you look at the video released today, there's the Hindenburg in action. And it's not the Derfflinger class battlecruiser, it seems to have 4x3 guns, presumably 203mm like DM and Zao.

 

I'm more concerned with the Leipzig at tier 7, it's a light cruiser that's supposed to go up against the likes of Pepsiscola and Myoko (not to mention the MM sending it to fight tier 9s).

[Aguirre23]

The tier IX is not going to be that Roon, it's most likely one of the projects/plans. Definitely NOT and 1902 armoured cruiser.

 

I was definitely thinking the same. that would be absurd. But while the H-Class proposals are pretty well documented even at Wikipedia, there is no information neither on a different Roon nor a Hindenburg different from that Battlecruiser. Got this from the NA forum, the creators best guess were completely made up ships for T9 and T10.

 

[Orlunu]

there is no information neither on a different Roon nor a Hindenburg different from that Battlecruiser.

 

Wargaming try to give realistic-ish names to the proposals when they put them in  game.  Hence the Kai Taiho being Hakuryu, and so on.

[kalamona]

If you look at the video released today, there's the Hindenburg in action. And it's not the Derfflinger class battlecruiser, it seems to have 4x3 guns, presumably 203mm like DM and Zao.

 

I'm more concerned with the Leipzig at tier 7, it's a light cruiser that's supposed to go up against the likes of Pepsiscola and Myoko (not to mention the MM sending it to fight tier 9s).

 

I would wait for an "official" tree, mostly because the Deutschlands as BBs does not make sense. Bayern in tier V seems OP a little and the hybrid carriers would be gamebreaking a little IMHO. So, wait and see.

[Kreol1q1q]

According to german site buffed.de this will be the final cruiser line for se germans. Lets not discuss their guesses for DDs et cetera but the officially confirmed cruisers in light blue. 

 

http://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warships-Spiel-42981/Specials/World-of-Warships-Special-deutsche-flotte-forschungsbaum-german-techtree-1165991/

 

Especially the top tiers look terrible. The Tier8 Admiral Hipper is a '37 heavy cruiser, which should be totally fine, but the Tier9 Roon is supposed to be a 1902 armored cruiser? Wtf? Just look at the damn thing:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Roon

 

Now at Tier10 we supposedly get a 1915 Battlecruiser with 305mm guns which was scuttled over 25 years prior to the Des Moines even being laid down? Looks fun. 

 

I don't buy that tree, the cruiser tree is almost certainly NOT going to look like that, and if Wargaming make Deutschland anything but a cruiser (unfortunately it seems a premium one), I might well stop playing the game. Bending realism for balance and fun is one thing, but magically making Deutschland's CL armor and CA+ weight of fire somehow battleship-like would be as ridiculous as making Warspite a cruiser.

 

So, yeah, I wouldn't take that tree seriously if I were you.

[zFireWyvern]

 

I don't buy that tree, the cruiser tree is almost certainly NOT going to look like that, and if Wargaming make Deutschland anything but a cruiser (unfortunately it seems a premium one), I might well stop playing the game. Bending realism for balance and fun is one thing, but magically making Deutschland's CL armor and CA+ weight of fire somehow battleship-like would be as ridiculous as making Warspite a cruiser.

 

So, yeah, I wouldn't take that tree seriously if I were you.

Well considering this is the tree that WG posted then you might be disappointed

The Cruiser lines are the same

[Xeonos]

I think that is unfortunately the case, because the German cruisers have high calibre guns, they get tiered ridiculously high for looking at their commissioning date.

 

Roon and Yorck has 8'' and the Hindenburg (1917) 12.

[zFireWyvern]

I think that is unfortunately the case, because the German cruisers have high calibre guns, they get tiered ridiculously high for looking at their commissioning date.

 

Roon and Yorck has 8'' and the Hindenburg (1917) 12.

 

The Roon at Tier IX is not the Roon you are thinking of.

[kalamona]

 

The Roon at Tier IX is not the Roon you are thinking of.

 

Cruiser P or some other, not well known paper cruiser proposals.

 

But the lack of Derfflinger i found disturbing.

[Kreol1q1q]

Well considering this is the tree that WG posted then you might be disappointed

The Cruiser lines are the same

 

I know about that, I was commenting on the fact that that tree the commenter I quoted linked to made Deutschland a Battleship and made some mistakes in the cruiser tree, mistaking the Tier IX or X ships for a WWI ship. 

[RamirezKurita]

It seems a bit stupid to put the Deutschland class as battleships, particularly all the way up in T6. So basically we have a "battleship" with roughly the same displacement as a Cleveland-class cruiser in the same tier, while also having thinner armour, less AA and lower speed, literally the only advantage the panzerschiffe has is it's heavier main battery. Compared to other T6 battleships, other battleships have slightly slower speeds (28 knots compared to the Fuso's 24.9) but also have double the guns, have much thicker armour, much heavier guns (356mm compared to 280mm) and much bigger secondary batteries.

 

Really, the panzerschiffe wouldn't be any better performing than battleships and battlecruisers all the way back in T4. Even comparing it to the Myogi, the Myogi has likely similar armour before hull upgrades (assuming it has similar armour to the Kongo-class), the same number of guns, the Myogi has a much heavier broadside (over double the weight) and not much slower a fire rate (2 compared to 2.5 rounds per minute). To be honest, they probably would be similar in overall power to the T3 battleships, trading armour for speed. You can't really put a 10,000 tonne ship in the same league as 30,000-35,000 tonne ships, despite the difference in age.

 

Likewise, putting Bayern into T5 seems a little odd, considering the QE-class (of Warspite fame) is T6, and the Bayern class were very similar in terms of main battery, armour and displacement.

[Xeonos]

 

The Roon at Tier IX is not the Roon you are thinking of.

 

I hope you are right, but another topic, why are the tier 6 and 7 between 2 lines on the tech tree?

[JapLance]

Forget that German site tech tree. It's just their ideas of how it would be, not the real one. It has the same valour as my private one. The only valid points are the light blue ships, even though they got the tier 7, 9 and 10 cruiser silhouettes wrong (not those RL ships at all, but paper ships).

[506_Mephisto]

It should be noted, that Deutschlands had 2x quadruple torpedo tubes, which can be clearly seen:

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/L%C3%BCtzow_ONI.jpg

 

Those would make the Deutschlands as a BB even more odd.

 

 

[Mr_Burke]

I wonder if Cleveland will get some AA competition from the final german line of cruisers.

[zeppo]

The Names : "Hermelin","York" "Roon" and "Hindenburg" are highly questionable for actual "existing paper ships"and possibly just made up by Wargaming or some English publications.

"Ship projects" have only been given Names if those ships are selected for constructing and not for some thought processing in a construction bureau .

The Names "York","Roon" and Hindenburg where used for actually keel layed ships in 1916-18 those ships where assigned to replace ships of the same name which were projected for decommissioning.

Furthermore "Hindenburg" was the Name of the President in Germany in the early 30" so a Ship with "his" Name would have been a Battleship not a cruiser.

"Hermelin" is the type of Name for a small Vessel like a Torpedo Boat not for a Cruiser because Small Cruisers have been and still (Frigates today ) are named after German Cities not Persons or Animals.

So I think that the "single letter" versions of Ship project Names are more likely to be the ones we see in a German Techtree, but simple letter names look stupid or "half done" so I appreciate that Wargaming took some effort to give us Ships with nice even made up Names , or do you rather drive a ship with the name " just P" ? xD

I've done some research and I think you can find those Ships in  Erich Groemer's compendium volume 1+2.

[Eshaede]

am i missing a trick, or have the KM Cruisers got the sum total of Sod and All AA ability ? even upgraded hulls look laughable ?

 

 

[Rabid_Turnip]

This was linked elsewhere:

[Diminios]

How to see them ingame (link to US forums): http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/51556-a-look-at-the-german-cruisers/

 

[broja_jacra]

According to german site buffed.de this will be the final cruiser line for se germans. Lets not discuss their guesses for DDs et cetera but the officially confirmed cruisers in light blue.

 

http://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warships-Spiel-42981/Specials/World-of-Warships-Special-deutsche-flotte-forschungsbaum-german-techtree-1165991/

 

Especially the top tiers look terrible. The Tier8 Admiral Hipper is a '37 heavy cruiser, which should be totally fine, but the Tier9 Roon is supposed to be a 1902 armored cruiser? Wtf? Just look at the damn thing:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Roon

 

Now at Tier10 we supposedly get a 1915 Battlecruiser with 305mm guns which was scuttled over 25 years prior to the Des Moines even being laid down? Looks fun.

 

The tier IX is not going to be that Roon, it's most likely one of the projects/plans. Definitely NOT and 1902 armoured cruiser.

 

 

I don't buy that tree, the cruiser tree is almost certainly NOT going to look like that, and if Wargaming make Deutschland anything but a cruiser (unfortunately it seems a premium one), I might well stop playing the game. Bending realism for balance and fun is one thing, but magically making Deutschland's CL armor and CA+ weight of fire somehow battleship-like would be as ridiculous as making Warspite a cruiser.

 

So, yeah, I wouldn't take that tree seriously if I were you.

 

The Roon is not going to be the one from your link, The Skin has a different shape to it.

As for the tech tree, well you can go into the game files and see the ship textures and the names are correct so the Cruiser tree will probably look exactly like that.

 

 

[Eerieness]

Seems citadel on germans are shait all across the board, except for Hermelin...Gonna be a nuke-fest...

[Eruantien_Aduialdraug]

Furthermore "Hindenburg" was the Name of the President in Germany in the early 30" so a Ship with "his" Name would have been a Battleship not a cruiser.

Maybe, maybe not, SMS Hindenburg was a Defflinger-class battlecruiser (laid down in 1913, commissioned in 1917). There was a discussion on a thread about British cruisers, and it was realised was that when it comes to heavy cruisers Britain has exactly three classes (Hawkins, County & York, York being a lighter version of the County), so we came to the conclusion that we either go with CLs the entire way (which Britain can probably do, there's a lot of RN light cruiser classes), or put the more lightly armed battlecruisers as high tier "cruisers" (by more lightly armed, we mean 343 mm and below, with 356 mm+ battlecruisers being classed as battleships in game). It's possible that Wargaming have come to the same conclusion and put Hindenburg (with artificaially improved AA) as the tier 10 KM cruiser.

 

Personally, I hope that's not the case, the difference in doctrine for KM and RN battlecruisers makes the Defflinger-class quite suitable as a low tier BB. Tier 4 perhaps? It has comparable armour and main armament to the South Carolina, but is substantially faster, actually out running the stock Myogi (which it has almost twice the belt thickness of), and a more powerful secondary. Again, it has similar armour to the Wyoming and is faster, with a comparable secondary, and a not much weaker main armament. (Comparing to possible British low tier BBs, the Defflinger-class has comparable armaments and armour regarding everything from Dreadnought to the Colossus-class, with the armament only really slipping behind with the first of the super dreadnoughts, HMS Orion).

 

Edit: Uh-oh... Looks like there might be something to what I just said. Just read the "Admiral Hipper and his Fleet" announcement; this is the write up for the "Hindenburg" - 

 

 Developed from a series of German heavy cruisers. Unlike ships of preceding classes, she boasted increased displacement and more powerful main battery guns.

Given that the preceding heavy cruisers are going to be using 203 mm guns, and guns of calibres between that and the 305s were only used on ships built at the back end of the 19th century... could well be a 305 mm armed Hindenburg, which could be what we don't want it to be.

 

 

 

 

The Roon is not going to be the one from your link, The Skin has a different shape to it.

As for the tech tree, well you can go into the game files and see the ship textures and the names are correct so the Cruiser tree will probably look exactly like that.

 

 

 

I do rather suspect that Bismark will end up being a regular T8 though, not chilling with the Tirpitz in the premium column.

[broja_jacra]

Maybe, maybe not, SMS Hindenburg was a Defflinger-class battlecruiser (laid down in 1913, commissioned in 1917). There was a discussion on a thread about British cruisers, and it was realised was that when it comes to heavy cruisers Britain has exactly three classes (Hawkins, County & York, York being a lighter version of the County), so we came to the conclusion that we either go with CLs the entire way (which Britain can probably do, there's a lot of RN light cruiser classes), or put the more lightly armed battlecruisers as high tier "cruisers" (by more lightly armed, we mean 343 mm and below, with 356 mm+ battlecruisers being classed as battleships in game). It's possible that Wargaming have come to the same conclusion and put Hindenburg (with artificaially improved AA) as the tier 10 KM cruiser.

 

Personally, I hope that's not the case, the difference in doctrine for KM and RN battlecruisers makes the Defflinger-class quite suitable as a low tier BB. Tier 4 perhaps? It has comparable armour and main armament to the South Carolina, but is substantially faster, actually out running the stock Myogi (which it has almost twice the belt thickness of), and a more powerful secondary. Again, it has similar armour to the Wyoming and is faster, with a comparable secondary, and a not much weaker main armament. (Comparing to possible British low tier BBs, the Defflinger-class has comparable armaments and armour regarding everything from Dreadnought to the Colossus-class, with the armament only really slipping behind with the first of the super dreadnoughts, HMS Orion).

 

Edit: Uh-oh... Looks like there might be something to what I just said. Just read the "Admiral Hipper and his Fleet" announcement; this is the write up for the "Hindenburg" - 

 

Given that the preceding heavy cruisers are going to be using 203 mm guns, and guns of calibres between that and the 305s were only used on ships built at the back end of the 19th century... could well be a 305 mm armed Hindenburg, which could be what we don't want it to be.

 

 

I do rather suspect that Bismark will end up being a regular T8 though, not chilling with the Tirpitz in the premium column.

 

I have the tech tree mod installed so I can see the tech tree in game and yes the Bismarck is regular T8. Ill get some shots and will look at the Hindenburg guns too as the tech tree can also show the ships in port as unpurchased ships