The 'upgrade' from Nicholas to Faragut

[2ndaryBattleTank]

One of the exiting bits about playing any WG game is that moment when you unlock that new ship or tank. More firepower, more armour, more everything. All is great.

 

Well, actually not in WoWs. Capabilities change only very little between tiers and a tier III can be perfectly competitive against a tier V. And I think that is a good thing. Compared to WoT where even a one tier difference could have a very large impact on your usefulness in a game, WoWs is extremely refreshing in the sense that being low on the team list is never really an issue. And yet...

 

Small differences between tiers are fine, but it is weird when the higher tiers are for all intends and purposes worse than the ship that came before. Not just tier for tier, but in a 1v1 comparison. This is the case when going from the Nicholas in tier V to the Faragut in tier VI. The Nicholas is faster, is less easily spotted and its torpedoes (the same as the stock ones on the Faragut) reload much faster. To me as a destroyer player those are the main attributes of any DD and the Faragut performs worse on every one of them.

 

Fine, you get 2 torps more per broadside, but a Nicholas can turn around and fire its torps on the other side for a total of 12 compared to just 8 on the Faragut. True, the upgraded torps of the Faragut do a lot of damage, but range is absurdly short (not that those on the Nicholas can be called long range). In CBT I preferred the stock ones. Other than that the Faragut gets a little more range for the guns, but the Nicholas gets better DPM. So to call the Faragut the better gunboat.... Not really.

 

And beyond the Faragut the Mahan also does not really look that great. Maybe I'll just stick to tier V for this one.

[Shaka_D]

I noticed that, I'm close to unlocking the Faragut and wasn't pleased when compared the specs. In fact it was so underwhelming an upgrade that I stopped grinding it. I switched to the Jap DD's and found them way more capable.

[Boevebeest]

Much debated before on this forum.

DD's are not worth the grind and frustration after tier 5.

 

By now I not only stopped grinding the DD's, but stopped playing the game.

Grind is insane and not rewarding most of the time.

Maybe I'll come back when they balance the game better and rework the economics.

 

To bad, had so much potential.

[mtm78]

I got to the Fletcher in CBT, the whole line that far was ok but I admit even I did it mainly because I wanted the chaingun that is Gearing more then because of how fun the whole line was to play. Fletcher was also quite good, as far as DD's at tiers above 5 are ever good ( maybe not even the planes on their own but the spotting distance of the torps mainly which is what actually spikes after tier 5 along with rof ( IJN )).

 

I unlocked Mutsuki to maybe play it in ranked, but it's so bad compared to Minekaze ( even now with nerved visibility and the shorter (faster!) range torps ). I might not play it any more.

 

I do look forward to playing the low tier USN DD's, but I don't expect to go high enough to replace my Sims as top tier USN DD ( until something is done to increase DD viability in high tier games ). 

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

Much debated before on this forum.

DD's are not worth the grind and frustration after tier 5.

 

I'm pretty sure this thread is going to get moved.

Check the Destroyer forum for several threads already on this topic.

 

Farragut is considered the worst US destroyer, closely followed by the Mahan.

The main reason to still play Destroyers is for zone controlling in ranked, where US destroyers are needed to push the hordes of IJD destroyers off cap points.

[Black_Sheep1]

 

I'm pretty sure this thread is going to get moved.

Check the Destroyer forum for several threads already on this topic.

 

Farragut is considered the worst US destroyer, closely followed by the Mahan.

The main reason to still play Destroyers is for zone controlling in ranked, where US destroyers are needed to push the hordes of IJD destroyers off cap points.

 

The main reason to play them is the fact that they still can be fun. The only thing that really annoys me is that the Farragut has less HP then the Nicholas.

Got the Benson this weekend, and it is still fun to play, even when it is stock, i am so looking forward to the Fletcher and the Gearing. 

 

The only thing i highly reccomend, if you have a captain for every ship, is that you train a captain at a lower tier ship to get the fourth captain skill that increases gun range already, before you put them in the higher tier DD`s.

 

Idid that with teh captain which is atm in my Benson and i am already started training a new one for the Fletcher. As training ship i currently use the Clemson, cause i don`t have a Premium DD.

[Tugnut]

well to be diffrent i like the Farragut looking forward to the mahan to.... us old timers to WoWS still remenber some of the DD of old in the US line... so nothing new on short torps and being sneaky

 

[Figment]

The US DDs should primarily be judged on their cannons, not their torps. Certainly not with the poor state fog is in. However, if you get in proper strike range with a Farragut or Mahan, the torps are very lethal. You just have less than the Nicholas, but the spreads are a bit tighter. Unlike the Nicholas though, you can't really afford missing a salvo. The range and curved fire can be a big asset in the right circumstances though.

[FaceFisted]

I am sticking with both Nicolas and Minekaze, as I hear it's not only worse for DDs when t somes to their performance, game is also extremely unfiendly towards them at top tiers.

[Puffadder]

USN DD line doesn't get good until the Benson. From there on in ... it's a blast having them. Fletcher and Gearing is the real icing on the cake, and the true reward for sticking with the utter crap that is the Farragut and the Mahan.

[snipershot]

They had to take the minekaze's 10km torps off her to get me to move to the mitsuki.

 

Maybe they will hobble the nic and buff the farra in the same way at some point.

 

(yes i know all the hipster kids used 7k torps on the mine, but im an old man and i liked the 10k more)

[2ndaryBattleTank]

well to be diffrent i like the Farragut looking forward to the mahan to.... us old timers to WoWS still remenber some of the DD of old in the US line... so nothing new on short torps and being sneaky

 

I know that under the right circumstances you can do well in the Faragut. I did play it in CBT. It is just that on the subject of short range torps and being sneaky the Nicholas is objectively better.

[GulvkluderGuld]

 

The main reason to play them is the fact that they still can be fun. 

 

Point taken. I kinda took that implicitly. Destroyers seem most enjoyable in rankeds for me atm.

[beercrazy]

forget torps with the Farragut as they are a last ditch attempt to kill something that you have let get too close to you

instead work those guns like a mad man and you will get some epic games with it

I now have the 20% extra range for the guns you get with the tier4 commander skill and it means that I can fire my guns at 11.3 upto 15.1 and as long as no other ship is closer I can do it without being spotted

yesterday I took my Farragut out and took over 26000 of a Cleveland that was trying to chase me down and couldn't get close enough to see me and he even started to blind shoot the area I was firing from till he finally died to my guns

the American dd are pure gun boats and perform well at it

 

I must admit the japan dd line felt awful to me from tier6 upwards but I never got to the high tiers to say if they are good then or not

[skotish]

I got to the Fletcher in CBT, the whole line that far was ok but I admit even I did it mainly because I wanted the chaingun that is Gearing more then because of how fun the whole line was to play. Fletcher was also quite good, as far as DD's at tiers above 5 are ever good ( maybe not even the planes on their own but the spotting distance of the torps mainly which is what actually spikes after tier 5 along with rof ( IJN )).

 

I unlocked Mutsuki to maybe play it in ranked, but it's so bad compared to Minekaze ( even now with nerved visibility and the shorter (faster!) range torps ). I might not play it any more.

 

I do look forward to playing the low tier USN DD's, but I don't expect to go high enough to replace my Sims as top tier USN DD ( until something is done to increase DD viability in high tier games ). 

 

Agree with you totally i played up to the minekaze  and didn't bother going any further not worth the effort especially the us DD,s the Clemson was the sweet spot in that line lol

[EsaTuunanen]

forget torps with the Farragut as they are a last ditch attempt to kill something that you have let get too close to you

 

I now have the 20% extra range for the guns you get with the tier4 commander skill and it means that I can fire my guns at 11.3 upto 15.1...

Well, doesn't Farragut at least still have 5,5km torps unlike Mahan whose stock torps have ridiculous 3½ km shorter range than ship's detectability...

 

Shell flight time to max range just must be nearing 20s.

[DaWyrm]

What is the Nicholas by the way?  The description says it was designed in 1919, but the only destroyer named Nicholas from then was a Clemson class.

 

Is it some design that never came to be?  It does not look like a Clemson at all, having only two smoke stacks. but I find no other ship it truly resembles either.

[Unintentional_submarine]

What is the Nicholas by the way?  The description says it was designed in 1919, but the only destroyer named Nicholas from then was a Clemson class.

 

Is it some design that never came to be?  It does not look like a Clemson at all, having only two smoke stacks. but I find no other ship it truly resembles either.

 

It is a destroyer leader design study, it was eventually never put into the acquisition plans, but the design was there and it was used for the later destroyers, like the Farragut. You can argue a bit like the Phoenix and Omaha.

[Frank_F_B]

They had to take the minekaze's 10km torps off her to get me to move to the mitsuki.

 

Maybe they will hobble the nic and buff the farra in the same way at some point.

 

(yes i know all the hipster kids used 7k torps on the mine, but im an old man and i liked the 10k more)

 

LOL and yes I loved the Ninja before it was nerfed

[GulvkluderGuld]

Well, doesn't Farragut at least still have 5,5km torps unlike Mahan whose stock torps have ridiculous 3½ km shorter range than ship's detectability...

 

Shell flight time to max range just must be nearing 20s.

 

First the stock torpedoes of the Mahan are the same as Farraguts "upgrade" = 4,5 km range for 15k damage.

Second they can be upgraded = 6,5 km range for 10,5k damage.

Finally, on the Mahan, if you are close enough to need torpedoes in the first place, the range usually doesn't matter. Other Mahan captains I talked to also use the stock torpedoes.

 

This is in contrast to the Farragut, which is (barely) able to use torps from stealth (vs ships coming towards it) due to its lower detectability.

 

 

[Figment]

You know, I think it'd be great if the USN DDs would get increasingly longlasting smoke.

 

Say +3 seconds fog duration per tier up to tier 7, an initial +33% fog emission time over the IJN DDs at low tiers and a +5s emission time at tier 8-10, creating larger fog fields.

 

 

At that point, you've got signficantly different playstyles from IJN DDs in which low range torps can be viably used and retreated from after usage, still at a higher risk due to proximity vs detection range than IJN DDs.

[GulvkluderGuld]

You know, I think it'd be great if the USN DDs would get increasingly longlasting smoke.

 

I wasn't in the CBT, but didnt US DD smokescreens get nerfed before OBT because they were able to perma-smoke themselves?

How would this be different? Just curious 

[DaWyrm]

 

It is a destroyer leader design study, it was eventually never put into the acquisition plans, but the design was there and it was used for the later destroyers, like the Farragut. You can argue a bit like the Phoenix and Omaha.

 

I can't help but wonder why they included it in the game. I mean, there is not a lack of US destroyer-classes between 1900-1945. (on Wikipedia I count 18 classes used in WWII)

[specialkha]

You know, I think it'd be great if the USN DDs would get increasingly longlasting smoke.

 

Say +3 seconds fog duration per tier up to tier 7, an initial +33% fog emission time over the IJN DDs at low tiers and a +5s emission time at tier 8-10, creating larger fog fields.

 

 

At that point, you've got signficantly different playstyles from IJN DDs in which low range torps can be viably used and retreated from after usage, still at a higher risk due to proximity vs detection range than IJN DDs.

 

USN DD got a smoke buff in 4.1. You have more time while you can release smoke.

[Figment]

 

I wasn't in the CBT, but didnt US DD smokescreens get nerfed before OBT because they were able to perma-smoke themselves?

How would this be different? Just curious 

 

All DDs had about two minute lasting smoke and a little over two minutes timer on the smoke, the emission period also lasted about 30-40s, creating a big field of fog. What I propose is not as good, somewhat sadly, because all you had to do was avoid the smoke and wait for them to burst out anyway while staying just out of torp range. Main problem was that a lot of bad players took their BBs into the smoke and subsequently got torped and headed for the forums.

 

One of the main issues was DDs hiding in a cap in smoke while being in the cap zone as defender didn't stop the cap. This issue doesn't exist anymore with the updated cap zone rules and shorter fog period.

 

Of course, cruisers didn't have the sonar ability then. They do now and even the time sonar lasts has been expanded.