Caps too powerful in Ranked

[Nefczi]

Caps generate way too many points in ranked.

 

 

No, they arent.

 

Ranked mode in its current state rewards smart/skilled ppl who play objectives, while punishing border huggers, "Im scared to get hit" snipers and chimpanzees.

 

Games are usually faster and more intense. Team that doesnt go for objectives losses fast. Thats how it should be. Hopefully ranked mode will teach few players not to ignore objectives - something that is a plague in Random mode.

[Elgerino]

 

Well when you speak of cap rushing "absolutes", what did you expect as answer??

The fact that you tried to present DDs as "OP" in your several of your previous posts does not make your opinion any more valid...

 

Oh, this is the bit where you start stuffing words in my mouth. 

 

Tell me, wise one, how else do you stop a DD getting an early cap than rushing it? Perhaps the exocet missile consumable? Or is it simply the case that a DD must be detected and it must be destroyed from the effective range required to hit such a small and agile target and in smoke no less? This has nothing to do with whether DD's are OP or not and I never claimed it was, it has everything to do with terrible gametype design. You characterise normal games as border camping and this as some sort of higher form of warfare even when it's essentially a DD's game to win for the first few minutes and nothing more important. I say this is bollocks, lacking skill and any real teamwork. Normal games need not (and aren't, only a fool would say border camping is the meta in random battles) be as you characterise them. 

 

That this is the way you think and that you think the ranked battles meta (or lack thereof) is superior shows wilful or other-wise ignorance. 

 

 

No, they arent.

 

Ranked mode in its current state rewards smart/skilled ppl who play objectives, while punishing border huggers, "Im scared to get hit" snipers and chimpanzees.

 

Games are usually faster and more intense. Team that doesnt go for objectives losses fast. Thats how it should be. Hopefully ranked mode will teach few players not to ignore objectives - something that is a plague in Random mode.

 

What a load of rubbish. DD's play for caps and everyone has to either rush to stop them or hold the line when they have the cap advantage. There is nothing smart nor particularly skilled in this. Claiming it counters border huggers and snipers is idiocy, border huggers and snipers have NEVER been effective in this game whether it's ranked or random battles. 

[Suranis1]

Oh you poor poor delicate flower. Imagine having to actually contest objectives and having to adapt standard DD hunting skills. Imagine if your team was able to hold down their mouse buttons and ripple fire the smoke area so the DD will be hiot by SOMETHING. Imagine having to adapt your play style to a new game type. Imagine if cruisers were screening BBs and harassing DDs

 

I've been watching a stream and watching a guy in a Nagato kicking [edited]in ranked because he is fighting over and defending objectives. Its so horrible how slow he is getting to Caps.

 

I feel for you, man. I really do, the horror of having to think about something else other than shoot the enemy and having to look at the minimap.

 

Sarcastic, me?

[Elgerino]

Yeah, you think you're being clever but it's clear as day that you don't know what you're talking about. The only way to spot DD's from a safe distance is with CV planes and CV's are rare in this gametype. Even when CV's are around, planes are quickly destroyed and recalled in the first minute as fighters clash. Smoke protects them from sight in any case. Ripple fire in the cap zone randomly all you like, the chances of actually hitting something are extremely low and a stray shell on target every so often is not going to stop the cap. Smoke may give you an idea where they are, but the principle is the same. Often the only reason you hit your mark in the first place is because you're locked onto the target ship and the autoaim is adjusting your shell trajectory to hit the target. Without it, you're firing blind and with no autoaim to guide your shells true. 

 

Let's drop the pretence, realistically the only way to counter a DD in quick enough fashion to stop the cap is to push them relentlessly and that will without fail draw too much focus fire to survive from the other team. Once you all get up in the rankings and everyone has a feel for the rules, you're going to see it time and time again.

[Suranis1]

Well, I guess you are just helpless then. Poor you.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make then drink, as people said to me...

[Elgerino]

Well, I guess you are just helpless then. Poor you.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make then drink, as people said to me...

 

It's okay, I don't expect words of reason to reach bad players. Expecting someone with no tactical wherewithal to understand the issues with a gametype was over-ambitious. 

[Suranis1]

Funny, that's what I was thinking!

 

 

It's okay, I don't expect words of reason to reach bad players. Expecting someone with no tactical wherewithal to understand the issues with a gametype was over-ambitious. 

 

[GeneralRushHour]

Team objectives actually matter, who knew?

I presume, OP a fan of spamming "NO CAP KILL ALL NOOBS!" in regular battles?

 

He´s a fan of sealclubbing and ranked obviously does not give him enough time to further inflate his CV stats. 

[allufewig]

I expect only absolute coward-teams to be frequently out-capped.

 

In now 11 battles none was won because DDs unstoppably won the battle after 3 mins. It feels like normal random but with smarter people (at least around rank 22 yesterday), faster pace, useful DDs and no draws. It is beautiful.

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

I expect only absolute coward-teams to be frequently out-capped.

 

In now 11 battles none was won because DDs unstoppably won the battle after 3 mins. It feels like normal random but with smarter people (at least around rank 22 yesterday), faster pace, useful DDs and no draws. It is beautiful.

 

This.

 

10 ranked battles yesterday, won 7 with teamwork, lost 3 because of no teamwork, DDs didn't decide ANY of those games.

[Elgerino]

DD's aren't wise to it yet. We're still seeing 10-20x more BB's than DD's in the queue, much different to how it played out on the test seasons.

[indycar]

has anyone played a ranked battle that wasnt dopmination ?

[_Kettenbeisser]

Well Elgerino, you seem to lack some insight in ranked battles.
 

From my Experience with decent Teamplay the ranked battles work nearly perfect. In my Ranger i can provide air reconnaissance, for knowing enemy Locations, directions and if you think intensions. I can fight off their CV-Planes and Support my Team with the db's. DD's got hell of a hard game with my planes in the air.

 

With my Nagato i am main dmg dealer, and tank brawling in around the cap, avoiding enemy DD's torps, focussing their ca's. If a DD get's Close my secondaries say hello, 1 salvo of my main gun let him regret his decisions. Why are my guns pointing at the DD's direction? if he caps or get spotted by CV i know WHERE he is or is to be expected and can adapt to it. Also i got in decent teamplay some ca Support.

When i sail in my Hatsuharu i decided games by stealth Approach on lone bb's. recapping of the bases and Support fire from within the smoke. Also did this in sims. but if you do a mistake you'll get punished heavily

 

This gamemode is definitly ranked. When you got the skill needed to perform with your ship you will be rewarded. Teamplay will be rewarded. I never played games before where my personal mistakes had so much influence on the game. No class is OP in this mode. With each Player doing his Job, ranked battles generate a more intense and fun game experience.
Classes are only OP when the enemy isn't able to Counter them. And this Counter ability depends on the Player skills not on the ship you're in.
 
 

I will never say that i am overperforming in ranked battles. I need to polish my skills. But you CAN do this very well in this mode.
 
 

And to get btt. The caps are for pressure on the enemy Team. These games are skill based, so a lack of skill in either the Teams will produce a fast and deciding outcome. Remember ESL Wot-Games and remember how fast paced they could be. Ranked battles aren't about the exp, they're about the win. I think they work as intended

[Syrchalis]

And to get btt. The caps are for pressure on the enemy Team. These games are skill based, so a lack of skill in either the Teams will produce a fast and deciding outcome. Remember ESL Wot-Games and remember how fast paced they could be. Ranked battles aren't about the exp, they're about the win. I think they work as intended

Right now the pressure is overwhelming though. If enemy caps 2 of 3 bases and you immediately react you still need 5-10 minutes to get a cap from them, especially if their BBs moved on the caps. In that time you will lose, simply because the caps generate so many points.

 

In normal domination, where you need 150 points more, more ships can die to reduce points and point generation is halfed they still create pressure. I think there it's not quite enough, but current state of ranked is - rush caps, forget about anything else - just get 2 of 3 caps and die - if possible slowly over 5 minutes - then lose all your ships but still win the game because of points.

[Elgerino]

I perform exceptionally well in my New Mexico, doesn't mean I'm going to pretend I'm an important factor. In 2 out of 3 of my games so far (and the majority of my games on test) DD's won the game with early capping and I merely secured the cap points with medium range main calibre. The other one of the three had no DD players. 

 

I'll keep this tallied, to me it looks like a lot of people in this thread are either under exaggerating how important DD's were in their games or simply lack the understanding to zero in on why exactly they win or lose.

[allufewig]

In normal domination, where you need 150 points more, more ships can die to reduce points and point generation is halfed they still create pressure. I think there it's not quite enough, but current state of ranked is - rush caps, forget about anything else - just get 2 of 3 caps and die - if possible slowly over 5 minutes - then lose all your ships but still win the game because of points.

 

You cant win when you lost all your ships, no matter how many caps and points you have - in normal domination that is. Doubt it is different in ranked.

 

Il keep having an eye on the cap matter as I play more. It just happened i didnt come to share your impressions of the cap-problematique yet.

[Elgerino]

 

You cant win when you lost all your ships, no matter how many caps and points you have - in normal domination that is. Doubt it is different in ranked.

 

Il keep having an eye on the cap matter as I play more. It just happened i didnt come to share your impressions of the cap-problematique yet.

 

It's actually totally different. The cap points gather so quickly and the amount needed so much smaller that there is no quicker route to winning than securing cap points. A veritable deity of naval warfare, unparalleled in accuracy and skill could not use kills to keep up with cap points in this gametype. I don't remember seeing once a game that ended with all ships destroyed and if people are seeing this, it just goes to show they're not getting cap orientated DD players.

 

3/4 of my games decided by DD's so far, the fourth had no DD players. 

[allufewig]

You automatically lose with your last ship destroyed, thats what I mean. Any points-advantage you might have gathered till that point becomes useless as the auto-defeat kicks in.

 

 

[Elgerino]

You automatically lose with your last ship destroyed, thats what I mean. Any points-advantage you might have gathered till that point becomes useless as the auto-defeat kicks in.

 

 

 

Ah, I see what you meant, apologies.

[Syrchalis]

You automatically lose with your last ship destroyed, thats what I mean. Any points-advantage you might have gathered till that point becomes useless as the auto-defeat kicks in.

 

Yeah I thought it was clear I was refering to one ship hiding and the caps winning the game for that team, even though no ships are left for them, simply because the leftover ships aren't close enough to the caps to stop it.

 

It happened to me so many times that we killed nearly every enemy or we got nearly wiped out but still won/lost because they couldn't get to the caps fast enough.

[Broevaharo]

I like this mode because of the fast cap points, it totally prevents people from sniping in the back, it forces teamplay, it finally gives some meaning to the use of tier 6 and 7 DD's and there are never more than 3 cap points that are also pretty close to eachother so I really don't see the problem.

North and New Dawn have the biggest separation of cap points but on Fault Line they are right next to eachother so if you aren't able to cap or decap on that one you certainly deserve to lose.

Players just need to adapt to this new playstyle that's all, sitting in the back in your BB won't cut it anymore but neither do the all Gung Ho suicide rushes so you actually have to think for a change where to strike hard and how to strike hard.

[caldark]

I like it the way it is

 

[Elgerino]

It's so disingenuous to claim this gametype does more to stop sniping when sniping is a bad strategy even in the random gametype. 

 

This gametype forces aggression and lemming pushes, it does nothing more than that. Trading one shitty strategy that doesn't even work with another shitty strategy that's an imperative to winning.

[sunday]

I will be wary of the opinions of a player that has only played 4 ranked games, using the same ship in all the games.

[Elgerino]

I will be wary of the opinions of a player that has only played 4 ranked games, using the same ship in all the games.

 

Yeah, except I played it plenty on the test server and discussed this very issue extensively on the forum at the time. Be as wary as you like, I predicted this would be the case and unsurprisingly every game I've played so far adheres to that prediction, so as far as I'm concerned I'm right and the gametype is bollocks. Four games is too few to judge of course under normal circumstances, but the thing is the gametype doesn't seem to have changed at all since test server so I've plenty enough experience to make an objective and fair judgement.