Caps too powerful in Ranked

[Wiochi]

 

Agreed. We're going to start seeing a lot of US DD's queueing up eventually and only once the causal link between them and victory is established will the devs even acknowledge something is wrong. 

 

And good, my Cleveland will be happy

[Syrchalis]

 

 

This sounds so completely stupid. The thought that US DDs at T6-7 (certainly the most useless ships in normal randoms ever) are now considered totally broken OP for ranked is baffling.

 

Well tbh, I didnt test it myself, so I dont call bs on it yet, but somehow I cannot really believe this. There was never a problem in getting rid of these ships, and now just because the cap ticks faster, they become a unstoppable menace and it is all drama around?!

 

DDs always were an unstoppable menace when it comes to caps. I lost games lately were an enemy Gearing simply went into our cap, smoked up and sat in the smoke for 2min and noone had a CHANCE to spot him.

 

Just usually there is enough ships to kill to reduce the cap points so it wasn't a huge issue, just a small one. Now that caps tick twice as fast, you need 150 less points and there are only 7 ships its broken.

[specialkha]

 

DDs always were an unstoppable menace when it comes to caps. I lost games lately were an enemy Gearing simply went into our cap, smoked up and sat in the smoke for 2min and noone had a CHANCE to spot him.

 

Just usually there is enough ships to kill to reduce the cap points so it wasn't a huge issue, just a small one. Now that caps tick twice as fast, you need 150 less points and there are only 7 ships its broken.

 

Well, that Gearing managed to avoid detection and no one on your team stayed in def. That should be rewarded.

[Syrchalis]

He didnt avoid detection, he simply ran into our cap and smoked. Like I said - you can't reveal without hydro search and 3.5km distance. AKA it's impossible. No cruiser can move that close to a gearing without insta-dying.

[gronaAnkan]

 

And good, my Cleveland will be happy

I think the key point to remember is that this isn't actually primarily a question about class composition but about pacing. Who cares if it is optimal to have 4 DDs or 1 on a team? It's still an interesting game, just like rock-paper-scissors is still an interesting game (to the degree it is interesting) if you let rock get 2 points per win.

 

But the question of pacing is important. My guiding principle is that "games should end when they're over". If a game is essentially won in the first few minutes involving only a handful of players followed by 10 minutes of the winning team just avoiding a major screw-up, then that is a less interesting game. I don't think we're quite there yet, I don't think cruiser players are realizing that they need to help DDs by keeping away opposing DDs from caps. When that happens I think the caps will go uncapped for longer resulting in longer games where more class interactions comes into play.

[specialkha]

He didnt avoid detection, he simply ran into our cap and smoked. Like I said - you can't reveal without hydro search and 3.5km distance. AKA it's impossible. No cruiser can move that close to a gearing without insta-dying.

 

Since your team spotted him while he was running to your cap, and no one manages to sink him. Well, you failed, what else?

[Suranis1]

 

Except spotting a DD is not the same as destroying it. There's this little thing called smoke and another little thing called effective range.

 

Smoke wontr effect firing once its spotted. Also smoke works both ways. if a cruiser dives into the DDs smoke he becomes invisible too, whereas the DD is visible to his entire team due to the Cruisers Hydrosensors. (you did take that consumable as you knew this might happen, right? Right?)

 

 

And sod effective range. If there is enough lead in the air SOMEONE is going to hit the DDs.

[Vanhal]

 

Agreed. We're going to start seeing a lot of US DD's queueing up eventually and only once the causal link between them and victory is established will the devs even acknowledge something is wrong. 

 

Half year from now on, as usual?

[bismark121]

 

Half year from now on, as usual?

 

at least 

[Luckyio]

 

Except spotting a DD is not the same as destroying it. There's this little thing called smoke and another little thing called effective range. For DD's, most ships need to be pretty close to hit the target, close enough they're throwing their ships away to the enemy who needn't have been so suicidally aggressive and DD's can frustrate your spotting quite easily. 

 

The chances of you destroying a DD before they cap is extremely small and you're going to lose so many ships in the process that even if you manage it against all odds, you're not in a position to win the game anyway. This isn't a problem in normal games, but in Ranked the cap points tick up and end the game so quickly it's damned near insurmountable.

 

No, but if you're any good, you'll have him pop his smoke early because your fighters will be in position above fastest entry points. This will enable your cruisers to start pushing the cap back while yours are capping at beginning, and then nullifying their stealth for mid and late game after smoke runs out and you're pushing.

 

It also doesn't hurt that you can kill his BBs while doing this.

[Elgerino]

 

No, but if you're any good, you'll have him pop his smoke early because your fighters will be in position above fastest entry points. This will enable your cruisers to start pushing the cap back while yours are capping at beginning, and then nullifying their stealth for mid and late game after smoke runs out and you're pushing.

 

It also doesn't hurt that you can kill his BBs while doing this.

 

You don't understand. The cruisers can't push, if they push they essentially become an easily destroyed lemming train. I've played one game today (not exactly excited to play it seeing as I tested it extensively on the test server and wasn't impressed) and that is exactly what happened, our Sims capped and they sent three cruisers in. They delayed the cap by hitting a few times but before they got into effective range they moved into my New Mexico's deadly range against cruisers, 14 and lower kilometres. I can leave what happened next up to the imagination, but spoiler alert, we won on cap points. 

 

Cruisers can be aggressive and often they should be aggressive, but the times for that need to be carefully judged. You have to wait for favourable opportunities because other-wise you die fast. Charging into the effective range of six enemy ships so you can destroy a single DD is suicide in a normal game and the same thing is true in ranked. Any ships you send after an opposing DD in the cap points you will certainly lose. Then what? The only ships you can trust to this task are DD's, more importantly US DD's. 

 

Hence, early DD battles decide who gets the cap points and ultimately, nine times out of ten, who wins.

[Admiral_noodle]

It's fine with two cap points but with three the balance screws up totally. I would remove three cap points and only have two in every game.

[alalos]

so 1 mode is blowing up all ships.. and the other one cap as fast as you can ?

 

thanks for the hint

[allufewig]

Cant confirm this tbh. Played 6 battles now, seems fine to me. Capping is a bit more important than random obviously, but in most cases of my battles until now all or almost all ships were dead by the end of battle without being involved in rushes for the caps.

[Luckyio]

 

You don't understand. The cruisers can't push, if they push they essentially become an easily destroyed lemming train. I've played one game today (not exactly excited to play it seeing as I tested it extensively on the test server and wasn't impressed) and that is exactly what happened, our Sims capped and they sent three cruisers in. They delayed the cap by hitting a few times but before they got into effective range they moved into my New Mexico's deadly range against cruisers, 14 and lower kilometres. I can leave what happened next up to the imagination, but spoiler alert, we won on cap points. 

 

Cruisers can be aggressive and often they should be aggressive, but the times for that need to be carefully judged. You have to wait for favourable opportunities because other-wise you die fast. Charging into the effective range of six enemy ships so you can destroy a single DD is suicide in a normal game and the same thing is true in ranked. Any ships you send after an opposing DD in the cap points you will certainly lose. Then what? The only ships you can trust to this task are DD's, more importantly US DD's. 

 

Hence, early DD battles decide who gets the cap points and ultimately, nine times out of ten, who wins.

 

Let me guess. Their CV failed terribly and didn't kill the NM, so it had free hands to engage your cruisers.

 

Seems pretty much like the old times, CV carries or sinks the team. At least others matter to some extent now.

[max24dj]

So i had a few games in ranked mode (rank 22 atm) and didn't notice any major issue with DDs:

if your CAs sweep the caps with BB support you win;

if everyone doesn't give a [edited]and goes for kills or plays defensively (coward mode) you lose;

Don't see an issue about that, if you play only to get and keep cap advantage you usually don't have problems winning the game.

 

The games are considerably faster than random ones but tbh if a team can't be arsed to go for objectives from the start i don't see the need to drag a pointless battle on. It might be an issue for carriers but, well, it's not like many people will miss them anyway .

[daki]

The whole point is in generally quicker games.

Either you (and your team) have the guts to push towards caps, basic skills and some brains or... you don't

Whichever team allows to be capped out quickly deserves to loose. It only means that too many coward campers were in the team. 

Yes DDs do have a big advantage in early capping, but nothing that cannot be later compensated by CAs or BBs.

With its mechanics, this is by far the most balanced mode in the entire WG universe.

Not to forget that DDs finally have a more important role by either being able to go for early caps and/or use flanking tactics.

[Elgerino]

The whole point is in generally quicker games.

Either you (and your team) have the guts to push towards caps, basic skills and some brains or... you don't

Whichever team allows to be capped out quickly deserves to loose. It only means that too many coward campers were in the team. 

Yes DDs do have a big advantage in early capping, but nothing that cannot be later compensated by CAs or BBs.

With its mechanics, this is by far the most balanced mode in the entire WG universe.

Not to forget that DDs finally have a more important role by either being able to go for early caps and/or use flanking tactics.

 

But it's a totally skilless cluster [edited]. The point of ''Ranked'' is to present a competitive game mode, what's competitive about cap rushing? Absolutely nothing. 

[daki]

 

But it's a totally skilless cluster [edited]. The point of ''Ranked'' is to present a competitive game mode, what's competitive about cap rushing? Absolutely nothing. 

 

By far much more competitive than mindless border humping and camping and praying to RNG gods (and then whining on forums if you do not hit or loose the game)...

I would expect that you as alpha tester know that caps can be rather easily reset if you do not camp to death.

[Elgerino]

 

By far much more skill dependent than mindless border humping and camping and praying to RNG gods (and then whining on forums if you do not hit or loose the game)...

I would expect that you as alpha tester know that caps can be rather easily reset if you do not camp to death.

 

You can tell when someone's talking out of their rectum numerous ways, in this case it's because you argue absolutes. Reading your posts you'd have thought there was nothing between lemming trains on cap and border camping.

 

We've been over the whole DD and cap reset thing over the last couple of pages, give it a read.

[daki]

 

You can tell when someone's talking out of their rectum numerous ways, in this case it's because you argue absolutes. Reading your posts you'd have thought there was nothing between lemming trains on cap and border camping.

 

We've been over the whole DD and cap reset thing over the last couple of pages, give it a read.

 

Well when you speak of cap rushing "absolutes", what did you expect as answer??

The fact that you tried to present DDs as "OP" in your several of your previous posts does not make your opinion any more valid...

[AgarwaenME]

 

The others rush into caps and get torped by DDs from smokescreens.

 

DDs you cannot reveal in any way.

 

Again, see my previous post. Cap areas are more than large enough to not go into smoke screens.

[Xmen]

caps are fine and DD are fine in this game mode .

 

Tier 6 and 7 DD have long enough torp reloading time to not be able to spam from the smoke.

It s only if you or part of your team play like a pussies that you start to have problem with DD.

 

more DD will give you an advantage for capping but Will also give you a big disadvantage in firepower, so again aggressive you  win passive/defensive you lose .

 

For me the problem is that there are only 3 skill class (25-21, 20-11, 10-1) so you will still have to put up with "special" people until you reach rank 10 .

especially considering you cannot go under rank 21 once you reach it.

 

This morning a few hours after the release at rank 20 the battle were really challenging (and fun) and the rest of the horde arrived and it was back to usual madness.

 

 

[Xevious_Red]

Played 3 games tonight. First two I was a destroyer, myself and the other destroyer agreed which caps to take. We quickly managed to take our caps. Unfortunately the rest of the team managed to translate the slightly simple plan "stick together and head towards A" as "sail in completely random directions, try to hide on the baseline and ram into islands". Despite therefore owning 2 of the 3 caps we lost (enemy team didn't even try decapping). Myself and the friendly farragut couldn't do a huge amount since the enemy team were tight nit and had lots of clevelands, so firing and being spotted would be a quick death.

Third game I took the warspite out, and despite us being outnumbered in terms of destroyers we sent our stealthy destroyer to take B. In this time the enemy took A and C with theirs. Their whole team went to C, ours went to A and quickly chased off the destroyer there (spent the rest of the game invisible trying to torp us). We then owned A and B. Rest of game involved shooting anyone attempting to capture B, and it was victory.

 

Will try some more tomorrow but so far my experience (only 3 games) hasn't been that the people who get the caps first win.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Had ten ranked battles today. Four in my Myoko - 50% wins - and the other in DDs... Hatsuharu (1/4 = 25% wins), Sims (1/1 = 100% wins) and Farragut Stock (0/1 = 0% wins)

 

In most of the battles there were NO CVs. In one of the battles there were NO DDs (and no CV).

 

So... without a DD captain that already has the row 5 detectability bonus skill all my DDs have visibility ratings of 6+ km. As did most opposing DDs. So trying to cap usually went like this:

 

• going into cap, looking for the capture marker to move. When it stops, enemy DD is near...
• moving at the edge of the cap until the yellow ! lights up, then frantically look for the enemy DD, while starting evasive maneuvers, as seconds later the enemy cruiser's salvoes land all around my ship - while the cruisers from my team try to sink the enemy DD ASAP.
• both DDs fire smoke, all the while STILL moving to evade the into the blue shots done by the cruisers.
• both DDs have to retreat or at least TRY to retreat, to evade destruction
• the cap is taken by the side that a) has destroyed the enemy DD(s), b) the side, that does better focus fire on the opponents or c) the team that is more aggressive and riscs losing ships for taking the cap, but then lacks ships to defend it

 

Right now, playing DDs is risky, but fun. And with lots of BBs waiting in the line for the MM giving them a battle, I rather play cruiser/DD for a while..