Thank you for wonderful time, see you soon.

[Blue_Bug]

Hi guys,

 

I want to thank all players and WarGaming for the wonderful moments with WoWs.

Like all my WoT friends, I will quit for a while, hoping that this great idea-of-a-game got fixed (hopefully) in time. It was real fun ...

until you hit Tier 8 where, with no premium, you are fucked. I know we all have to make our living and you are achieving it ... for a short term. Focus on the long run.

There is no way to continue, winning battles and loosing money at the same time.

I really hope that you will re-balance the game in the upcoming months, so it will be less pay-to-win and more all-ships-have-strengths-and-weaknesses-and-they-are-equal-at-the-end.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work!

 

...and by the way, your uninstall-feedback submit button link is not working...like most of the stuff

 

Even with premium time you will make a loss on some classes. I lost credits on the Farragut and now I'm again loosing credits on the Maham. I totally agree with you that the Economy is broken. 

 

It is a pity to see you leave. I hope you will be back soon.

 

 

Totally agree with this flawless statement.

If you can't break even with a T8 with premium..where is the point? People do not want to grind all the way up to the high tiers and then need to sealclub with the Murmansk for 10 battles only to have the cash to pay a couple of high tier battles...What the actual FU**!!!!!

 

What kind of game mechanic is this? How is this supposed to keep people playing? It's a broken system, which does not work!

Games always need a nice balance between too easy and too frustrating to keep the players playing.

 

If you make a free to play game then you will have to deal with the people who just come to play the free game, since on the other end you have the players who purchase packages and Tirpitz's for 80 Euros..this should balance your income somewhere with the average Joe who spends like 30 Euros on the game a year..and if you get greedy you'll just mess it up. Like everywhere in life!

The Op is IMO totally right. He just wants to raise attention to this issue..which he did politely.

 

If WG wants to continue the money squeezing campaign..they will ruin this game..too. It's time to get smart..and give the player what he wants..so he decides he wants to pay more for it and extras..and not do it by forcing him if he wants to progress...

Awesome game --> Increasing player base --> more average Joes --> more money

 

 

Totally agree with you.

[Admiral_noodle]

You make a loss on high tiers to stop you playing them all the time. This isn't "broken" it's been explained already. You may not likely but there is a point to it!

[scousersuk]

just for all these tools in this thread white knighting WG like blind fan boys the post is not saying make everything free he is saying thing need tweaking and balancing which is valid WG are greedy they want you to buy premium and flags if you have other things to do outside of this game so you can actually tier up and if you work hard to T10 they say haha you dont play your ship now because its costing 300k repair

[ilhilh]

Hi guys,

 

I want to thank all players and WarGaming for the wonderful moments with WoWs.

Like all my WoT friends, I will quit for a while, hoping that this great idea-of-a-game got fixed (hopefully) in time. It was real fun ...

until you hit Tier 8 where, with no premium, you are fucked. I know we all have to make our living and you are achieving it ... for a short term. Focus on the long run.

There is no way to continue, winning battles and loosing money at the same time.

I really hope that you will re-balance the game in the upcoming months, so it will be less pay-to-win and more all-ships-have-strengths-and-weaknesses-and-they-are-equal-at-the-end.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work!

 

...and by the way, your uninstall-feedback submit button link is not working...like most of the stuff

 

How does he get to +10 when his major gripe is that it is pay-to-win and he fundamentally misunderstands that concept.  Pay-to-win refers to the concept of paid content improving your chances of winning.  He clearly states that his problem is that he can't earn money at the higher tiers which is a completely different issue!  The credit economy broadly matches WoT (and I assume WoWp but I haven't played that) and it leaves you with 2 options:  Pay up, or play more time at lower tiers where earning credits is easy.

 

Also, with the exception of Myoko your average damage in most ships is lacking and as such your credit earning will be lower.

[Shaka_D]

well, WG has this earning mechanics to keep lower levels populated. nobody would play low tiers if it was profitable playing tiers 8 up. it has been like that in WoT since the beginning as well. you don't want to buy premium account, or premium ships/tanks? no problem, just keep (for example) KV-2, or Cromwell (or Omaha, Cleveland...), and you can have a lot of fun grinding credits even without spending a penny. so comparing WoWS (or WoT) to regular games is kind of pointless, and "crying" about not having enough credits is silly, especially coming from someone, who has some degree of experience playing WoT..

 

the system isn't broken (as Fi_8_8_8 is trying to imply). it works perfectly in WoT, and I see no reason why it shouldn't work here. and, again, nobody is forcing anyone to pay anything. it will only take a bit more time to get the stuff you want

No, it doesn't work perfectly in WoT either. A free2play game must be able to generate income obviously, but WG have shown over time that their philosophy is one of 'slash and burn' rather than 'nuturing the playerbase'. Their business model represents one that seems to be operating on a shorter time scale, i.e. let's make as much as we can as quickly as we can instead of providing for a long term income stream.

 

In world of tanks, over time, they slowly reduced the credit income and increased xp gain, making it quicker and easier to unlock tanks but making it harder to buy them, in the hope players purchased premium tanks, premium accounts, etc. They nerfed tanks (especially premiums) in the name of balance and then introduuced new ones, so altering the products we worked hard to gain for no real other reason than to feed their income. What WG are doing is constantly manipulating their playerbase, altering in game mechanics and items to make them worse so as to introduce the 'next best thing'.

 

The choice is always ours to buy or not, to keep playing or not, and we all know that balancing is required to some degree, but WG have a clear vision of what they want from us and their primary goal is money, with customer satisfaction and relations coming in dead last. They bank on the fact that people love the genre and they're being unscrupulous in their knowledge of the fact they have little to no competitors. The mistake we all make, and I mean this from years of experience with WoT and in life, is that we think or assume that WG care for us and our feelings. We like to think we're important to them and that what we say in game and on the forums will be heard and understood and acted upon, but I promise you this: They don't care at all, we're not the names and faces we think we are to them, we're wallets first and foremost, then irritating complainents the rest of the time. Apart from some real gems of people who work for them their overall communication skills are atrocious, have been for a long long time, especially their attitude toward the EU.

 

When they first started WoT they were great with their playerbase, but over time they got cold, disconnected and their slaughterhouse of a business model kicked in, their players mattered no more. The same will happen here, mark my words. Ships will get nerfed, credit streams will be harder to maintain, new / better items will get released, and so on. Nothing of what we say or do will matter to them, we only think it does.

[Admiral_noodle]

just for all these tools in this thread white knighting WG like blind fan boys the post is not saying make everything free he is saying thing need tweaking and balancing which is valid WG are greedy they want you to buy premium and flags if you have other things to do outside of this game so you can actually tier up and if you work hard to T10 they say haha you dont play your ship now because its costing 300k repair

 

No need to be rude and start throwing insults around. You and OP are spectacularly missing the point about the wows economy. High tier ships are designed to cost. Not to make WG money but to make you alternate the ships you play and stop mid tiers becoming unpopulated. 

 

Low tier isn't too fast grind. It all depends on the numbers of players at each tier. WG may well tweak the economy if any tier is "barren" but that's about it. 

 

OPs other points are indeed valid, but the complaint about not being able to play top tier ships without premium just isn't valid. I believe Aerroon hasn't paid any money and he has lots of top tier ships!!

[gbgroger]

I have the same issues now.

 

Im absolutely loving playing murmansk, and get between 2-500k credits a round.

 

Just bought zao today, had a first game. We won, I got 1600 base xp and I had 10% health left. That win cost me 20k credits, WITHOUT PREMIUM IT WOULD COST 100k. FOR WINNING! MY SHIP SURVIVED!

 

WG SHOULD MAKE HIGH TIERS WORTHWHILE TO PLAY!

[Admiral_noodle]

I have the same issues now.

 

Im absolutely loving playing murmansk, and get between 2-500k credits a round.

 

Just bought zao today, had a first game. We won, I got 1600 base xp and I had 10% health left. That win cost me 20k credits, WITHOUT PREMIUM IT WOULD COST 100k. FOR WINNING! MY SHIP SURVIVED!

 

WG SHOULD MAKE HIGH TIERS WORTHWHILE TO PLAY!

 

And then everyone would play high tiers when they got there. MM in mid tiers would be a desert. New players would quite when they couldn't get a tier V game because so many people are playing high tiers only. 

 

Is anyone actually listening to this point?

[Blue_Bug]

First : Nobody is asking to make mayor profits on high tier. People are asking not to loose that much credits on high tier (even with premium). If we compare it to WOT the economy is much worse. On T10 you will make on average a litle profit (with premium time). Here an average player will loose a lot of credits (with premium). 

 

The argument that this is done to avoid that there will not be enough players on tier 6-8 isn't valid. If I look at WOT I hardly play my T10 tanks. That grid is over and done, up to the next Tier 10. If people wants to play their Tier 10, let them play Tier 10. There will be enough players on lower tiers. If not , it is not the fault of tier 10 players. In that case it will be the fault of WG who doesn't make the game atractive enough for players to keep them playing.

 

At the momemt there are only a few T10 players. Tier 1-8 are filled up. At this time there is a very large chance to get in a T10 batle with a T8 vessel. If T10 vessels where cheaper to maintain people will  play them more and less T8 vessels will have to fight T10 batles. All players will be satisfied with it.

[66Schwifty]

No, it doesn't work perfectly in WoT either. A free2play game must be able to generate income obviously, but WG have shown over time that their philosophy is one of 'slash and burn' rather than 'nuturing the playerbase'. Their business model represents one that seems to be operating on a shorter time scale, i.e. let's make as much as we can as quickly as we can instead of providing for a long term income stream.

 

In world of tanks, over time, they slowly reduced the credit income and increased xp gain, making it quicker and easier to unlock tanks but making it harder to buy them, in the hope players purchased premium tanks, premium accounts, etc. They nerfed tanks (especially premiums) in the name of balance and then introduuced new ones, so altering the products we worked hard to gain for no real other reason than to feed their income. What WG are doing is constantly manipulating their playerbase, altering in game mechanics and items to make them worse so as to introduce the 'next best thing'.

 

The choice is always ours to buy or not, to keep playing or not, and we all know that balancing is required to some degree, but WG have a clear vision of what they want from us and their primary goal is money, with customer satisfaction and relations coming in dead last. They bank on the fact that people love the genre and they're being unscrupulous in their knowledge of the fact they have little to no competitors. The mistake we all make, and I mean this from years of experience with WoT and in life, is that we think or assume that WG care for us and our feelings. We like to think we're important to them and that what we say in game and on the forums will be heard and understood and acted upon, but I promise you this: They don't care at all, we're not the names and faces we think we are to them, we're wallets first and foremost, then irritating complainents the rest of the time. Apart from some real gems of people who work for them their overall communication skills are atrocious, have been for a long long time, especially their attitude toward the EU.

 

When they first started WoT they were great with their playerbase, but over time they got cold, disconnected and their slaughterhouse of a business model kicked in, their players mattered no more. The same will happen here, mark my words. Ships will get nerfed, credit streams will be harder to maintain, new / better items will get released, and so on. Nothing of what we say or do will matter to them, we only think it does.

 

of course WG's primary goal is money. they're not charity, and they didn't make this (or any other) game just to give us an opportunity to spend our free time happily driving/sailing around in tanks/ships. they made their games to earn them a fortune. simple as that.

 

 

I dare to say I am an experienced tanker. 20k games, 52+% winrate. and from my experience this model has been used in WoT since the beginning. you are not the first one to say "they nerfed premium tanks, credit income, and so on", but having a couple of them (premium tanks) in my garage I can say they didn't. I can still make the same amount of credits playing my Type 59 (or any other premium tank) as before. but if I didn't have the money to buy premium tanks/account, or wasn't willing to, I could perfectly well earn credits playing lower Tier tanks, same as most of the WoT players do. maybe you don't know, but wast majority of WoT players are freeloaders, I know many of them myself, and most of them see no problem earning enough credits playing their Cromwells, T-34-85s, KV-2s, and so on. many of my clanmates have all Tier 10 tanks available in the game, and got them without spending a penny. and guess what? they even play them on a regular basis. yes, most of the time you lose credits in your Tier 10 tanks, but that's when your Cromwell comes into play. and if you're good you can break even  (in Tier 10 games)..

 

and again, this model is great to keep low Tiers populated. do you really think anyone would play low Tiers if they could earn credits (or simply not be broke) playing Tier 10? would you? or would you rather be always top Tier, and crush two Tiers lower players? everyone would do that. so, after a majority of players have researched their one or two Tier 10 tanks/ships a new player would have a hard time to find populated match in Tier 3 (for example) to research his Tier 10, because everybody would be playing Tier 10s. so, IMHO, this system is working just fine. and I am no WG fanboy, I have 61 days of premium account left, and after that I'll join the ranks of freeloaders. don't see any reason to spend any more money..

[Admiral_noodle]

First : Nobody is asking to make mayor profits on high tier. People are asking not to loose that much credits on high tier (even with premium). If we compare it to WOT the economy is much worse. On T10 you will make on average a litle profit (with premium time). Here an average player will loose a lot of credits (with premium). 

 

The argument that this is done to avoid that there will not be enough players on tier 6-8 isn't valid. If I look at WOT I hardly play my T10 tanks. That grid is over and done, up to the next Tier 10. If people wants to play their Tier 10, let them play Tier 10. There will be enough players on lower tiers. If not , it is not the fault of tier 10 players. In that case it will be the fault of WG who doesn't make the game atractive enough for players to keep them playing.

 

At the momemt there are only a few T10 players. Tier 1-8 are filled up. At this time there is a very large chance to get in a T10 batle with a T8 vessel. If T10 vessels where cheaper to maintain people will  play them more and less T8 vessels will have to fight T10 batles. All players will be satisfied with it.

 

Now this is a much more sensible post in my opinion. I would expect that if T10 doesn't fill up, WG will rebalance the top tier economy. If not and T10 remains unpopulated, then that's stupid. The stats will decide. Only time will tell. I have no problem in tier 7 making enough. If it gets that I make massive losses at tier 10 then I'll only play it rarely... So we shall see. Anyone got stats on average credit loss on say... Yamato?

 

[KurtVonSteiger]

I think personally that this all boils down to a players goals/expectations - having played WoT I know how hard it is to make a profit at T10 and that a lot of players see T10 as a kind of end game goal therefore they will be frustrated by the operating costs vs rewards of T8 to T10.

However, a lot of us are quite happy to progress at a slightly lower pace and are enjoying the T5 to T7 ships and using the credits generated for the odd high tier battles - on the goals front I am (Im)patiently waiting for the RN to be introduced so any credits/free xp accumulated will enable me to grab my dream ships reasonably quickly - BUT, each of us wants something different from the game hence the differing opinions.

.

WG will rebalance the economy if they feel it is required not because we want them to.

 

[Admiral_noodle]

I think personally that this all boils down to a players goals/expectations - having played WoT I know how hard it is to make a profit at T10 and that a lot of players see T10 as a kind of end game goal therefore they will be frustrated by the operating costs vs rewards of T8 to T10.

However, a lot of us are quite happy to progress at a slightly lower pace and are enjoying the T5 to T7 ships and using the credits generated for the odd high tier battles - on the goals front I am (Im)patiently waiting for the RN to be introduced so any credits/free xp accumulated will enable me to grab my dream ships reasonably quickly - BUT, each of us wants something different from the game hence the differing opinions.

.

WG will rebalance the economy if they feel it is required not because we want them to.

 

 

I agree. I might get Yamato for Xmas but like you I want more trees to grind. Especially as I have been in since CBT. I only play BBs and cruisers so I can't wait for Germany and the RN. Of course I suspect RN ships will be all about guns and no armour...

[Jackobite]

And let's not forget about the fact that of every euro you pay the russians, some of it will be spent on weapons they want to invade your country with.

I do not give money to russians until they as a nation clean up their act.

And before anyone tells me it's actually a belorussian company, that country is just a satellite and wows is developed in Leningrad.

 

you gay bro?

 

 

[Siagor]

I will not move above Tier 6 before / if a huge player base is formed.

 

So far I enjoy Tiers 5-6 immensely. If I stayed on one line only, would have make at least one Tier 10 by now. But being a veteran of WoT, I know there is no end game at top tier. At least not now.

[Siagor]

 

you gay bro?

 

 

 

Wow!! What a contribution to the discussion!

 

We barely saved this from being detracked into politics, now this...

[Jackobite]

 

Wow!! What a contribution to the discussion!

 

We barely saved this from being detracked into politics, now this...

 

  Apologies, one of those posts that sounded funny in my head

[Tugnut]

I dont smoke or one for lots of beer (just anouth to last me a weekend... nor have i job that pays tons of monies and have a family to support to but, i do save my monies for prem time and ships that i want in my port... but happy to pay for some thing i like playing!   and i dont look at the game as i must get to tier 10 and play there, i like paying ships that intrest me and i have fun playing in no matter from tier 1 or tier 10   if low in creds i break out the warshite and grind her for creds and its a win win as love playing that ship... also Alpha ship and the yubari are fun to play for creds    the game syas free to play dont mean its free to succeed in.

 

but the OP said it quite polite had have no issue with what they said, if they ar enot having fun they should not feel the need to play the game

[Admiral_noodle]

 

you gay bro?

 

 

 

And is that meant to be an insult?

[WhoCares01]

Somebody else mentioned it for the Zao already, here an example with the Iowa:

Victory, badly damaged but not sunk,  ~130k damage done, almost 1700 base exp. (2500 with flag), ~20k credits lost - if I had been sunk it would have been -50kcr (>160k auto-repair instead of 130k), if it had been a draw/defeat another 50k less. Standard account, no flags for reduced repair bill or increased credits income.

Just to add another example.

It's no surprise to see many risk-averse players at high tiers.

Question is how populated T9 and T10 will ever be, if people have to play 2/3/4 times the number of battles on lower tiers to finance one high tier sortie.

[Admiral_noodle]

Hmmm that is tough. But... I would play Tirpitz or Murmansk if I had Iowa in a 1-1 ratio. I made 600k with one and 200k with the other in two games. More than enough to cover the costs.

[Hanszeehock]

Somebody else mentioned it for the Zao already, here an example with the Iowa:

Victory, badly damaged but not sunk,  ~130k damage done, almost 1700 base exp. (2500 with flag), ~20k credits lost - if I had been sunk it would have been -50kcr (>160k auto-repair instead of 130k), if it had been a draw/defeat another 50k less. Standard account, no flags for reduced repair bill or increased credits income.

Just to add another example.

It's no surprise to see many risk-averse players at high tiers.

Question is how populated T9 and T10 will ever be, if people have to play 2/3/4 times the number of battles on lower tiers to finance one high tier sortie.

 

I suppose you got less credits as most of the damage was against lower tier ships ? Just a thought.

[WhoCares01]

I don't have Murmansk or Tirpitz, just Arkansas and Yubari as premiums, and the Iowa, Mogami, Fubuki, and Myoko as regular ships. Overall I might be at an average of about 20-50k loss per Iowa battle. I am still profitable and could easily sustain this with the T8 ships. But it is not just the operational costs of the Iowa, but you also want to outfit it. Yesterday I unlocked and bought the C-hull for 5 million, already skipping B to save 3.5 million.

And just now I also unlocked the Kagero as well, but am 8 million short to buy it...

Back to the Myoko, that ship is my real money maker, obviously not at the rates of premium ships

 

Edit in response to Hans: Might be - we only see about half of the hits I scored in that battle - I know that I also dealt some to the second Fuso, not sure about the rest, but it is clear that they had no T9, so all damage was against lower tiers; can only shoot what is there...

 

To add another perspective:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912ea/average_ship.html

The average damage for an Iowa is ~70k - even with premium you may have problems to be profitable.