Why are CVs overperforming on EU only?

[Pawndemonium]

Rudder shift is on par with other BBs of its tier, the 0.3s difference can't be responsible for deeming it a slow rudder, it's 12.8s (with module, NC and Amagi have 12.48s). The turning circle is in between the other two BBs iirc.

AA isn't enough to touch T8+, and while this does increase damage taken compared to the NC, a CV still has to focus with all airgroups to deal significant damage. The top 10% CV players at those tiers are expected to hit with 50% of their torps, this wasn't any different on the Amagi (which takes more planes down when they are on their way back, compared to the Tirpitz).

 

In the end it's a more attractive target, but most Tirpitz players don't even try to evade torps, the rudder shift time isn't as bad as a single video suggested.

[specialkha]

Because it is known that there is more "individual mind" in EU than in NA for instance. In NA, on Wows, the Lemming train is a valid tactic, while, it is called "noob team" in EU.

[Hauptbahnhof]

The top 10% CV players at those tiers are expected to hit with 50% of their torps, this wasn't any different on the Amagi (which takes more planes down when they are on their way back, compared to the Tirpitz).

 

In the end it's a more attractive target, but most Tirpitz players don't even try to evade torps,

 

Indeed. The "problem" is not mainly with the ship, it's with the average captain that decides when and how to do evasive maneuvers and focus airgroups ( nor not )

[Mayv]

As others have suggested this could be due to the influx of Tirpitz players in the higher tiers here on EU.

 

Take this with a pinch of salt but from my experience of playing my Fubuki some Tirpitz players have clearly played no games in regular high tier BBs.

Yesterday I launched a spread of 9 trops from about 10km away at a Tirpitz. 30s later the Tirpitz is still on course to eat the torps but there is a Cleveland about 600m closer to the torps. The Cleveland spots the torps when they are 2km out from him turns and takes one on his bow. The Tirpitz makes no changes to his course (to my joy) eats 6 of the remaining torps board side on, despite the Cleveland spotting them even further out than normal, and sinks. The Tirpitz captain then claims in chat that Im using some kind of mod.

Other times I have had Tirpitz captains dodge spread after spread of torps only taking a hit from 1 at most, making me pull my hair out in frustration.

 

So with the Tirpitzs lack of AA compared to other T8 BBs how do you think some players are going to fare against a CV attack if they cannot dodge torps from a DD? 

[Vulgarny]

Answer is simple. NA got much smaller player base. After 4.1 balance patch fiasco most of their dedicated CV players drop CV or game. Smaller player base =  smaller chance to raise new ones to replace old ones. On EU the same thing occur but larger player base manage more or less to replace losses with new CV players

[xenomic]

 

For me there can be few reasons for this numbers:

1) The best CV captains play on EU

2) Only scrubs play CVs on the other servers

3) The avarage Joe on EU is complete scrub and is easily farmed by CVs

4) EU players are the most egoistic ones and teamplay is banned word so CVs have easier time

 

I'm taking gate No.4

Good job m8, +1

[Unintentional_submarine]

Answer is simple. NA got much smaller player base. After 4.1 balance patch fiasco most of their dedicated CV players drop CV or game. Smaller player base =  smaller chance to raise new ones to replace old ones. On EU the same thing occur but larger player base manage more or less to replace losses with new CV players

 

How would that make the EU carriers do more damage relative to the NA carriers? If we assume both servers lost as many old hands (and thus arguably among the better CV players) proportionally, then they should see an equal drop in average damage. Also, if this was the case, then the difference between EU regular and EU top 10% would be even more pronounced, with the EU regular damage being in line with the NA and SEA numbers.

 

Someone mentioned something a while back when a similar issue was discussed. The SEA carriers had a surprisingly limited WR compared to EU as we could see it at the time (since we didn't have the EU numbers, it was purely speculation), so it was argued that the SEA server had a larger T10 CV population and thus more opponents for the carriers. As far as I remember the SEA T10 CV population was indeed proportionally larger.

While, with mirror MM it is no longer of much consequence, if any, it can certainly have ingrained different playstyles in the people. On SEA, with a more or less guaranteed CV opponent in top tier matches, the CVs tended to play a lot more with fighters (something that was also commented upon with some surprise from the EU side), this is likely to have stuck post 0.4.1, while it is only just gaining traction in EU. Similarly, with nearly guaranteed T10 carriers it is hardly a surprise that the other players reacted to that and played to mitigate that, rather than stick to solo routines, which were more effective on EU when no top tier CVs were around.

 

So, if the CV population is dropping or continues to be a once every 3-4 games thing, then we shouldn't really expect to see the EU CV damage drop, simply because for most people there isn't that imperative to mitigate them. They are an occasional predator, compared to the constant predator enemy BBs form for instance. Now it can be argued that what helps against carriers tend to help against other classes too, but we all know that it puts certain restrictions on people that they prefer to not have, or at least that is the perception.

If carriers were a lot more common, say, more likely to be encountered than not, then I think things would change.

 

Of course, it could also be that once more the changes has shaved off the least capable skippers, and put more emphasis on those that were already good. And thus, while clearly lessening the capabilities of the ships, might have accomplished nothing in regards to average damage.

But this is all complete speculation.

[ironhammer500]

Simple fact is EU players are better, enough said.

[Kenliero]

Simple fact is EU players are better, enough said.

 

Yeah, lets go with that. it FEEEEELLLSSS BETTER

[Aerroon]

What's teamplay? Is it edible?

[Tugnut]

Teamplay can you get arrested for that.. Captain point on the rubber duck where the nasty CV touched you.

[Wizzmann_zeOrbitalStrike]

I think it may be related to how the meta game has changed after the nerf.

 

For instance, I noticed that on EU on low tiers (4-6) a lot of IJN players have switched from strike to fighter. Now, if enough players make the switch, everyone else will follow, because if you are forced to fight vs 6 fighters each game with a strike setup, you might end up with 0 damage when facing worthy opponents. And they still get a DB and a TB to make some decent damage.

 

So if at high tier the game changed in this direction too on the other servers, then the damage difference comes with little surprise.

[McCracken666]

 

Nope, they nerf CVs because they overperform the other classes. Comparing CV players between them on different servers is pointless and irrelevant for game balance.

 

This.

CV's are still a joke and absurdly overpowered and have it way to easy in this game.

[JohnHusky]

I suppose they have it even harder since 0.4.1?

Or am i just the only one having huge problems making my tb drop the load? Due them just circle until dead?

 

But from looking at the exp on top 10% vs kills on EU. It could indicate most go for blob formation to get the kill, instead of letting the BB repair so more exp could be farmed from it.

[Suranis1]

 

This.

CV's are still a joke and absurdly overpowered and have it way to easy in this game.

 

NERF ARTY till they are totally unfun and can only fire 3 times a game. Then keep whining till they nerf them more. IN FACT NERF EVERYTHING BAR HEAVY AND MEDIUM TANKS. AND tank destroyers. So we don't have to dodge stuff and can sit in bushes wating for the other side to come at us so we can pad our win8.

 

Or you know, only have a cap of 2 CVs per side in a game or something. And look around you occasionally and look at the minimap to see planes and learn to dodge. If I can dodge torps in an Arkansas Beta you can do it in a ship that actually has AA and the ability to turn. And you know stay with your teammates so your combined AA will make it suicidal to attack you.

[Suranis1]

I suppose they have it even harder since 0.4.1?

Or am i just the only one having huge problems making my tb drop the load? Due them just circle until dead?

 

  Happens to me occasionally since then but I'm only new to CVs and only played a few games before 0.4.1

 

And we are going to see a similar jump in CV performance once the Derpitz is released on NA on Thursday. CV captains there are going to have a field day just like the ones on EU did.

[viceadmiral123]

Overperforming? Surely this is before the mega nerf of CVs. Let's give AA ability to all ships.

[Ishiro32]

 

This.

CV's are still a joke and absurdly overpowered and have it way to easy in this game.

 

Are you still so angry about carriers that you have to try to turn every topic into "carriers OP" even after hefty nerf?

Create your own topic and we will have this discussion there and I am sure it will be very intresting and lively. 

[xCaptainObviousx]

 

Are you still so angry about carriers that you have to try to turn every topic into "carriers OP" even after hefty nerf?

Create your own topic and we will have this discussion there and I am sure it will be very intresting and lively. 

 

But.... Nobody reads "OMG CV ARE OP" threads anymore, this is the only way he can force people to see what he writes. 

[Suranis1]

Maybe he could try a "Please talk to me. I'm Lonely and need someone to talk to" thread? It would at least be honest and he might make some friends.

[Kenliero]

Maybe he could try a "Please talk to me. I'm Lonely and need someone to talk to" thread? It would at least be honest and he might make some friends.

 

He would, but he can't have friends, because... well because CV's are so OP and they need nerf!!!! ;)

[Luckyio]

Gonna go with a fairly simple explanation. First, let's set the facts straight: CVs are not fun to play for overwhelming majority of people. Not because they're not OP - they still massively are. The problem is that gameplay itself is literally as fun as your average RTS facebook game. Click a few times, predict movement by a couple of seconds, collect points. There really are facebook games with more gameplay elements than CV gameplay in WoWS.

 

So you can choose between having an actual ship game, and a glorified clicker that gives you slightly better rewards. As a result, people like Sharana, who are willing to play the said clicker and not the ship game are a minority. I would suggest that most people who got decent at CV play just used them to farm up credits, and once they have enough, they'll dump them to play the actual ship game and never play the clicker again.

 

And the thing is that the veteran core of CV players has long hit tier 10 on their CVs and have farmed up enough credits for other lines on those. If the statistics show that CVs are still head and shoulders over everyone else on EU but not NA, that means that the core CV players have decided that CV ship type or game itself are not worth staying in and left everywhere but here. Middle tier CVs suffer from the terribleness of players due to lack of RTS experience, I routinely see people miss everything dropping full load on my Kongo, which is both sad and hilarious at the same time. Occasional good players on the other hand will always connect most of the torpedoes in a proper cross pattern drop and you'll just melt regardless of your action, but I only recall seeing two good CVs during last two weeks, one of which was on my side and one was on the other. All others were in the "terrible" category.

At the same time Twitch streams demonstrate that CVs still rule top tiers with iron fist and absolutely no challenge to their utter supremacy, as long as they have any kind of understanding on how to predict ship movement a few seconds ahead and most of the terrible CV players are ones that are apparently putting about as much time in as your average casual player on ships, so they're not going through tiers all that fast even though they're gaining a bit more exp per time spent.

 

So conclusion is that on US and Asian servers, if the numbers are correct, former CV core have either left the game or have gotten enough credits and free exp farm to drop the abortion of the class and play actual ship combat game instead. On EU, Sharana's little CV cabal has apparently remained active in the game, skewing the numbers. This is especially visible in how there are almost no CVs left in middle tiers. It looks that those who were willing to actually tolerate CV gameplay are done levelling them and are sitting at top tiers, and no one else is willing to touch that stinky turd of a ship type and fully willing to tolerate slower levelling process of other ships.

 

This is especially visible in the fact that now that CVs are far more rare, people are actually levelling their DDs en masse and having a good time at it, not getting spotted by hand of god all the time and being utterly nullified by it. Here's to hoping the current trend continues. The less CVs there are in matchmaker, the more fun games are getting for everyone else.

[Vulgarny]

Just give BB mafia some time. Cloaked DD with invisible torp topics will soon strike again!

[Luckyio]

Just give BB mafia some time. Cloaked DD with invisible torp topics will soon strike again!

 

Bow to our new DD overlords!

 

On a more serious note, I like the fact that DDs are now actually present in matchmaker and effective because of lack of CVs. Whenever I play a BB or a Cruiser, I almost never can say "well, I got killed by something I didn't have any chance of avoiding" any more. Sure, I get that occasional bad hit from enemy BB into my correctly angled citadel I couldn't do much about, but those aren't fatal. It's the misreading of DD movement and misreading them reading me what gets me killed nowadays, as well as just plain being too offensive and pushing too hard at times.

 

Which is refreshing after months worth of "CV chose me as a target and dropped torpedoes correctly, nothing I could do" deaths.

 

Bring on more DDs and less CVs. Best games by far are the ones with no CVs, and I say it as a player who enjoys the ship type that is supposedly intended to provide AA support the most.

[specialkha]

Just give BB mafia some time. Cloaked DD with invisible torp topics will soon strike again!

 

At lest, playing DD requires some skill where CVs do not