The reason why CV is OP and RNG is a big part of this game

[PapVogele]

 

A BB cannot one shot a Cruiser if he doesn't show his broadside! - No teamwork needed!

A DD cannot hit a ship if he doesn't sail in a straight line! - No teamwork needed!

A CV cannot sink a ship that is escorted! - Not teemwork needed, because you can just sail next ship!

 

Class X is not OP if the player on the recieving end is competent!

 

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

A BB can and will citadel certain cruiser lines in this game no matter the angle.

A DD can and will sink a ship even though its zigzagging (Shimekaze anyone?)

A CV can and will sink an escorted ship, as proven numerous times by papedipupi and other high end CV players. The reserves are simply so numerous that a CV can effectively afford to sacrice his planes. Furthermore, getting his whole squadron shot down saves him the time it takes for the squadron to return, effectively reducing his time to rearm the planes as another squadron just takes its place.

[Syrchalis]

The reserves are simply so numerous that a CV can effectively afford to sacrice his planes.

This is true only for the Midway, no other CV can freely lose it's planes on nearly every run.

 

DDs are underpowered because WG fucked up, but CVs are/were overpowered because players are stupid? Nope, not really.

Sorry, but that's not the case. DDs are underpowered because the developers don't give them the right tools to do anything worthwhile - AND because they give other classes the right tools to deal with DDs effectively (BB spread buff e.g.).

 

And CVs seem overpowered, because the developers actually gave players the tools to fight them effectively, just players don't utilize them.

 

There is a huge difference.

[allufewig]

 

And CVs seem overpowered, because the developers actually gave players the tools to fight them effectively, just players don't utilize them.

 

There is a huge difference.

 

Again: You cant blame vehicles being statistically UP or OP on the players. Quality of the playerbase will not change. You can give them skills (as in smokescreen, defensive fire) but you cannot demand use of their brain nor can you buff it. A vehicle that is too powerful because of others are too dumb to destroy it, is still too powerful.

[Syrchalis]

You can focus either on players with a brain or on ones without. I think WG doesn't look at their playerbase as idiots, but apparently you do.

 

If you balance the game for low skill levels you disqualify any competition in it, because any high level play is automatically imbalanced (since it's balanced for bad players, not good ones).

 

You see - ranked battles are coming. Ranked means competitive. Competitive means balancing for high skill. WG isn't going to balance this game for low skill levels and they shouldn't.

 

Every other game does it the same way. League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm (which is the most casual MOBA out there - despite 95% of their players being not in the high skill area, they balance for that), even Call of Duty. They aren't doing that because of no reason. These are huge companies that know exactly what they are doing and why. Do you want Warships to become a game you play for a month and then throw away because after you have gotten any good at it it becomes unplayable because balance is off? Oh wait, Warships matchmaking doesn't take skill in consideration, so high skill players will abuse the mechanics that become OP in the hands of skilled players and can even do so against not so good players.

 

Is that what you want?

[allufewig]

Riot does balance according to hero winrate as well. Balancing for "high-skill" doesnt mean any large statistical differences can be tolerated.

 

If WG isnt out of their minds, high tier CVs will get theit share of nerfs and high Tier DDs will get some buffs. Sooner or later.

[Ksionc]

A DD can and will sink a ship even though its zigzagging (Shimekaze anyone?)

 

You forgot about DD invisibility and unlimited torps.

 

[Aldramelech]

Out in my Warspite the other day, had some decent support so decided to push, big mistake. it wasn't long before all that support had melted away and went to hide in a corner and I found myself alone, that's my fault as well for assuming they would follow me but the great thing about the whole experience was the guy in chat who then preceded for the rest of the game to tell me that I'm an idiot because it's my JOB to sit back and engage at max range....................

 

In the Warspite..................

 

What can you do? 

 

 

[Syrchalis]

Riot does balance according to hero winrate as well. Balancing for "high-skill" doesnt mean any large statistical differences can be tolerated.

 

WG and Riot do balance based on stats. Riot does however not balance for low skill. For example Tryndamere, who is a champion that wrecks low skill games very hard, because he is a very strong 1vs1 hero and players don't teamwork in low skill games - he has not been changed for a long time. Same with a lot of other "noob-stomping" champions.

I don't know how much you know about LoL, but Katarina is the perfect example. She dominates low ELO consistently and was never touched - UNTIL she became a dominant force in competitive play. Then she was nerfed. Not before that.

 

It is correct that Riot rarely does little changes to some heros solely based on their performance in low ELO games - if they do this they usually just shift the power of a hero in such a way that he loses power if played by not so good players but retains the strength or even gets stronger if played by good players (as often noob-stomping champions are really bad against good players).

[allufewig]

Played a few hundred games of LoL. But that doesnt matter very much.

 

If you look top 10% players, CVs are overperforming just as much or even harder. In the cases of hightier DDs and CVs it doesnt even matter on which part of the playerbase you look, because the result is about the same.

[Syrchalis]

You can't get correct statistics over the top 10% that doesn't take the time before 0.4.1 in account. Having no enemy carrier is a huge advantage for a carrier. It's like a Yamato getting into a match with the enemy team consisting out of 10 Atago's. Every 30sec a kill.

 

That aside, what stats do you take to think they are overperforming? I can tell you how they are biased.

Damage - There is two big reasons CVs currently do a lot of damage. Firstly, they need to, because it's their only way to contribute to victory, as capping and decapping is very impractical as CV. Secondly, player mentality went to drawing games out, so CVs have a lot more time to deal damage, as they usually live through the whole game (unlike other ships).

Win Rate - Good players carry games. However, it's not always possible. A CV with it's ability to pick targets and attack where needed has it easier to carry a game. Also most CV players use divisions which significantly increase winrates.

Kills - Due to high alpha damage, CVs tend to get the kills. Also high damage also leads to kills, so the damage arguments apply as well.

[specialkha]

You can't get correct statistics over the top 10% that doesn't take the time before 0.4.1 in account. Having no enemy carrier is a huge advantage for a carrier. It's like a Yamato getting into a match with the enemy team consisting out of 10 Atago's. Every 30sec a kill.

 

That aside, what stats do you take to think they are overperforming? I can tell you how they are biased.

Damage - There is two big reasons CVs currently do a lot of damage. Firstly, they need to, because it's their only way to contribute to victory, as capping and decapping is very impractical as CV. Secondly, player mentality went to drawing games out, so CVs have a lot more time to deal damage, as they usually live through the whole game (unlike other ships).

Win Rate - Good players carry games. However, it's not always possible. A CV with it's ability to pick targets and attack where needed has it easier to carry a game. Also most CV players use divisions which significantly increase winrates.

Kills - Due to high alpha damage, CVs tend to get the kills. Also high damage also leads to kills, so the damage arguments apply as well.

 

And why do you think ppl do draws? Because they know that if they try something on their own, they will get sunk by CVs.

[Syrchalis]

Because they are unable to communicate or teamwork. I had a lot of games in which the enemy team rushed us, got all caps and the game was over so quickly I couldn't even get above 50.000 damage in my CV, despite perfect attacks.

[Lord_WC]

Sorry, but that's not the case. DDs are underpowered because the developers don't give them the right tools to do anything worthwhile - AND because they give other classes the right tools to deal with DDs effectively (BB spread buff e.g.).

The only thing DDs need is xp for spot assist. Otherwise they are fine - sure, they are not the instawin CVs are, but they can do a lot of interesting stuff (which mainly revolves around abusing the low spot range).

[Syrchalis]

That wouldn't help. It would simply make leveling in a DD easier. What they need is:

• Faster torpedo reload
• Less air detectability
• Flip of the torpedo reaction times (low tier they are 6-9sec short and high tier they are >12sec long)

 

Some info on the last point: New players should get more reaction time, so they can learn to avoid torps, high tier players know how to deal with them so they need less.

[rafparis]

That wouldn't help. It would simply make leveling in a DD easier. What they need is:

• Faster torpedo reload
• Less air detectability
• Flip of the torpedo reaction times (low tier they are 6-9sec short and high tier they are >12sec long)

 

Some info on the last point: New players should get more reaction time, so they can learn to avoid torps, high tier players know how to deal with them so they need less.

 

This would be a dream come true... And less whinning at DDs at lower tiers...

 

[allufewig]

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912nt/average_ship.html

 

These are for NA (EU not available yet) 04.09. - 12.09.15.

 

DDs still have abysmal values, yet their winrate is surprisingly "okay". Carriers on T9/10 do ca 3x the avg damage of a DD and generally more of everything except cap and decap. The winrate is not much better than the DDs winrates, I guess because mirror-mm is kicking in heavy. Thankfully so.

 

Still hate the fact that you either have to go with the blob for AA cover all the time or full spec AA to be remotely safe. This rips the game of so much possibilities to play with main-battery, secondaries and anti-surface survivability.

 

It is "go AA or go down". And thats tarded.

[Mindfulcrane07]

That wouldn't help. It would simply make leveling in a DD easier. What they need is:

• Faster torpedo reload
• Less air detectability
• Flip of the torpedo reaction times (low tier they are 6-9sec short and high tier they are >12sec long)

 

Some info on the last point: New players should get more reaction time, so they can learn to avoid torps, high tier players know how to deal with them so they need less.

i agree with this

[YAK9UTPRO]

i think it is your team's CV duty to protect you from air attacks with fighters [but this is not that easy i use IJN CVs and because their airgroups are 4 planes even with all the skills (not air superiority) and all the upgrades i still can't make 4 fighters deal with 6 and its not 4 VS 6 so their group at the and is reduced to 2 but they remain like 4 planes left on their airgroup which is as a result is realistic but the IJN CVs didn't send exactly this amount of aircraft so for an IJN CV it would be harder but still they can reduce the threat] the thing is that most they don't even do that.

[Astral_Eclipse]

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

A BB can and will citadel certain cruiser lines in this game no matter the angle.

A DD can and will sink a ship even though its zigzagging (Shimekaze anyone?)

A CV can and will sink an escorted ship, as proven numerous times by papedipupi and other high end CV players. The reserves are simply so numerous that a CV can effectively afford to sacrice his planes. Furthermore, getting his whole squadron shot down saves him the time it takes for the squadron to return, effectively reducing his time to rearm the planes as another squadron just takes its place.

 

No sorry he is right on the BB thing.

 

As a BB will not citadel/instakill cruisers that don't show flat sides and even then you have to pray to RNGesus for the right shot (unless he is closer then 10 km), meanwhile the equal tier CA/CL eats you alive with HE spam and fire. It's not the BBs faul that WG made some cruisers floating citadels.

[Cobra6]

The fact that carriers can send 2-3 squads to one target at once guaranteeing a massive amount of damage makes them OP.

 

AA should be a lot more accurate, especially in lower tiers.

 

Cobra 6

[Mindfulcrane07]

The fact that carriers can send 2-3 squads to one target at once guaranteeing a massive amount of damage makes them OP.

 

AA should be a lot more accurate, especially in lower tiers.

 

Cobra 6

accurate there is no such thing with AA

[Syrchalis]

The fact that carriers can send 2-3 squads to one target at once guaranteeing a massive amount of damage makes them OP.

 

AA should be a lot more accurate, especially in lower tiers.

 

Cobra 6

 

Okay, then lets make BBs reload be 3 minutes like CV planes and their 60k damage shots are justified. Oh also lets make the 3 minute reload salvos be able to be countered by cruisers, who can shoot down the shells and also make your dispersion 4 times worse.

[Broevaharo]

That wouldn't help. It would simply make leveling in a DD easier. What they need is:

• Faster torpedo reload
• Less air detectability
• Flip of the torpedo reaction times (low tier they are 6-9sec short and high tier they are >12sec long)

 

Some info on the last point: New players should get more reaction time, so they can learn to avoid torps, high tier players know how to deal with them so they need less.

 

This would actually be a very good thing to make the DD's more playable on high tiers as well as "sort of" protecting the newbies.

In regards to CV's being OP, I don't think they are after the latest patch but I do see some balance issues with the tier 6 and 7 fighter setups of the IJN, they totally own the stock setups of the Ranger and the Independence and we all know that a fighter setup for US is just wasting damage potential so there is room for some tweaking, same goes for the higher tier US CV's because they own the IJN on stock setup.

[Lord_WC]

That wouldn't help. It would simply make leveling in a DD easier. What they need is:

• Faster torpedo reload
• Less air detectability
• Flip of the torpedo reaction times (low tier they are 6-9sec short and high tier they are >12sec long)

 

Some info on the last point: New players should get more reaction time, so they can learn to avoid torps, high tier players know how to deal with them so they need less.

Yes, I know, that's why I suggested it. This more effects low tiers though, but on low tiers you either spot/smoke (so support your team) or do torp runs. The problem is you will get very little xp in the first case, so the higher WR due to teamplay is redundant. A little something might help enforce teamplay a bit more.

 

1) I don't want to touch reload times, I have to climb back to high tiers first. In CBT it was okay, you just had to switch from using all your launchers to using one at a time. 

2) CV spotting with planes should go altogether. Scout plane spots are just a minor annoyance, they move in such a predictable pattern.

3) I think the original idea was to give the same amount of time to dodge. Low tier BBs (and CAs for that matter - but this might change with the light/armored cruiser split) are quite mobile - have much lower rudder shift time and turn radius than high tier ones. Maybe keep the torp spot constant and that would mean less time to react.

[Syrchalis]

Low tier BBs often do 20kts max and high tier do consistently over 30kts. While rudder shift time is correct usually - lack of torpedo accuracy comes from the BB's speed relative to your torpedos and as BBs are like 50% faster at high tiers ... you get the idea. Add to that higher distance (and thus dispersion) of torpedos... and yeah, not going to hit much.

 

Basically - look at DD average damage in high tiers. It's horribly low. So a buff to reload time and shorter reaction times aren't going to make DDs suddenly super broken OP. It kind of comes down to the actual numbers. If you make a Shimakaze have 20sec reload on torps (like Umikaze) then it's going to be OP of course - small steps is the word.

 

As for the spotting - my idea always was that you can reveal a DD, but just on the minimap for other players - the outline is visible on the minimap (like a ship out of your acquisition range), but not the ship itself. Gives players a way to notice it and dodge, but they can't just lolrape the DD instantly.