T9 Essex oneshotting a T10 Montana in one attack run.

[Syrchalis]

 

Oh btw:

 

A Shimakaze sits behind an island. A wild enemy Yamato drives by, it's guns turned the other way. The Shimakaze unloads just a single of it's torpedo launchers, but the Yamato dies anyway, because every torpedo hit and they even scored some critical hits. The secondaries of the Yamato unfortunately were destroyed by HE earlier.

 

Wow DDs so freakin OP! What the [edited], look at this video! Holy crap!

 

 

To summarize the posted video:

• Montana had lost some of it's AA
• It was clearly not focus firing or very unlucky with AA RNG
• It received at least 10.000 damage from other sources
• You hit his engine TWICE because he repaired and you hit his stearing, causing about 20.000 bonus damage
• Your autodrop actually hit 5 of 7 bombs, which is insanely lucky, just as the 3 fires it caused
• He repaired immediately, with your DBs nearby
• Bombs did penetration damage, which rarely happens on high tier BBs, so damage was higher than usual

 

So - it was a combination of insanely lucky coincidences and massive errors on the Montana's side. And let's not forget that it was a lone BB - the exact thing carriers counter.

 

[Lord_WC]

Oh come on. You're really like girls in school that need to nitpick about anything in an example one doesn't 100% clarify. If you had two twins both expert engineers and one was on the moon 700 times and experienced all challenges that came with it and the other was designing self-cleaning sinks in the meantime - who would you hire?

I wasn't saying you can't read stats, I was just saying you are insanely biased against CVs because you haven't been on the other side. I was on both sides.

I'm not nitpicking. Your request of me playing CV to realize they deal more damage was unfounded. And you were so kind to state yourself the problem with it - 700 moon landings doesn't make anyone a space engineer.

I don't know I'm biased or not. But since beta I'm telling CVs are not good as is, CV sealclubbers disagree, yet WG keeps nerfing them every patch basically. While I don't agree with WG's approach 100% maybe - just maybe - think for a second what would happen if I'm indeed right and you yourself are biased while telling CVs are absolutely fine, yet you pull double the average damage and 10% points higher WR as your other ships. And no, that's not fine because it's his 'job'.

[AgarwaenME]

 

So - it was a combination of insanely lucky coincidences and massive errors on the Montana's side. And let's not forget that it was a lone BB - the exact thing carriers counter.

 

Indeed, it did everything wrong, but clearly even doing everything wrong should be enough to warrant getting punished for it if you play a BB.

 

 If that had been a Des Moines or Zao going sideways at 10 km with an iowa having its guns trained on it, and it got one shot by a single salvo, no one would bat an eyelid. Though, if that CA hadn't been one shot, you can damn well know that there would be some BB mafia guy coming to these forums to complain about RNG and bad BB accuracy.

[Lord_WC]

Indeed, it did everything wrong, but clearly even doing everything wrong should be enough to warrant getting punished for it if you play a BB.

 

 If that had been a Des Moines or Zao going sideways at 10 km with an iowa having its guns trained on it, and it got one shot by a single salvo, no one would bat an eyelid. Though, if that CA hadn't been one shot, you can damn well know that there would be some BB mafia guy coming to these forums to complain about RNG and bad BB accuracy.

Could you please attach a frequency of occurance to the following:

a) BB with all secondaries killed getting cornerraped by a DD and DD gets away without a scratch

b) t10 CA getting oneshot from 90% hp by a BB

c) t10 BB getting killed by a CV from 90% hp

 

Thanks.

[AgarwaenME]

Could you please attach a frequency of occurance to the following:

a) BB with all secondaries killed getting cornerraped by a DD and DD gets away without a scratch

b) t10 CA getting oneshot from 90% hp by a BB

c) t10 BB getting killed by a CV from 90% hp

 

Thanks.

 

And.. your point is? The only real difference in those examples, is that a BB can do that to a CA even if that CA does everything he can to avoid it. I'm just wanted to make a point about those that really did everything wrong and should be punished for it it there's ever going to be a skill floor in the game; or I could just have said "any T6+ CA hit in nearly any angle by nearly any t6+BB", but that would be a somewhat different point (the point that BBs are extremely forgiving to play).

[Solial]

That's the avarage stats. Yes the ships can achieve a lot more, yet the majority of the players can't and that applies to all ships, not only for CVs. You have 146K avg damage in Essex - good for you, the others don't. There are guys with 140K+ avg in Yamato, yet the majority is not. You can fish for attention for your YT channel all you want, that doesn't change the avarage stats.

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912nt/average_ship.html

nation	class	tier	name	players	total battles	average of rates
						battles	win	draw	lose	exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	survived	kill / death	point
JP	CV	9	Taiho	133	1976		47.37	5.52	47.11	8140	68629	1.09
JP	CV	10	Hakuryu	63	912		51.23	3.88	44.90	13794	85667	1.16
US	CV	9	Essex	100	2347		42.16	5.12	52.72	7343	76035	1.18
US	CV	10	Midway	48	792		54.02	4.28	41.71	11110	110067	1.46

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912nt/average_ship.html

nation	class	tier	name	players	total battles	average of rates
						battles	win	draw	lose	exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	survived	kill / death	point
JP	BB	9	Izumo	125	3253		44.91	4.03	51.06	3619	56385	0.81
JP	BB	10	Yamato	165	3434		52.64	4.40	42.96	6622	91254	1.12
US	BB	9	Iowa	465	9784		51.60	4.94	43.46	8212	67083	1.03
US	BB	10	Montana	144	2157		47.08	3.65	49.27	7390	77485	1.04

 

As for the high tier CVs becoming better and only Midway probably a bit OP if they keep these stats (only 8 days worth of stats in this), that's the developers vision of high end gameplay:

 

 

Thanks again for this post Sharana, tbh. I was asking myself if I did good on my Hakuryu since the patch and this average "85k" on Haku reassure me: obviously some people have a lot of difficulties because I'm really higher than this. Syrchalis must be higher too and like you said, we don't have to take our only experience as a landmark.

 

Btw, I disagree when u talk about the Midway "a bit" OP: the gap between average Haku and average Midway is SO BIG. 110k in average for average players on Midways shows that there is a problem. I dont ask WG to rape Midway, I'm just saying.

For me, the actual problem of US drop is that a good US CV player almost doesn't give a crap of AA cruiser skill while for japanese it means "meh drop".

 

ps: Oh, there is "expert players" stats too in your links. Okay, I should be considered as en expert then ! (smile guyz, smile !)

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

So - it was a combination of insanely lucky coincidences and massive errors on the Montana's side. And let's not forget that it was a lone BB - the exact thing carriers counter.

 

Though... Can you honestly say that a Taiho could have pulled off the same thing?

 

If not, then something is clearly not right since Japanese Carriers are supposed to be more offensive ( given US better fighters ).

That's the avarage stats. Yes the ships can achieve a lot more, yet the majority of the players can't and that applies to all ships, not only for CVs. You have 146K avg damage in Essex - good for you, the others don't. There are guys with 140K+ avg in Yamato, yet the majority is not. You can fish for attention for your YT channel all you want, that doesn't change the avarage stats.

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912nt/average_ship.html

nation	class	tier	name	players	total battles	average of rates
						battles	win	draw	lose	exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	survived	kill / death	point
JP	CV	9	Taiho	133	1976		47.37	5.52	47.11	8140	68629	1.09	18.95
JP	CV	10	Hakuryu	63	912		51.23	3.88	44.90	13794	85667	1.16	22.57
US	CV	9	Essex	100	2347		42.16	5.12	52.72	7343	76035	1.18	21.43
US	CV	10	Midway	48	792		54.02	4.28	41.71	11110	110067	1.46	21.88

 

 

Interesting stats. They show us that US is ahead in both damage caused, warships destroyed and aircraft destroyed for Tier 9.

 

The question is, how can Essex lose so much more despite being superior in all fields?

[II_Nemesis_II]

 

Thanks again for this post Sharana, tbh. I was asking myself if I did good on my Hakuryu since the patch and this average "85k" on Haku reassure me: obviously some people have a lot of difficulties because I'm really higher than this. Syrchalis must be higher too and like you said, we don't have to take our only experience as a landmark.

 

Btw, I disagree when u talk about the Midway "a bit" OP: the gap between average Haku and average Midway is SO BIG. 110k in average for average players on Midways shows that there is a problem. I dont ask WG to rape Midway, I'm just saying.

For me, the actual problem of US drop is that a good US CV player almost doesn't give a crap of AA cruiser skill while for japanese it means "meh drop".

 

ps: Oh, there is "expert players" stats too in your links. Okay, I should be considered as en expert then ! (smile guyz, smile !)

 

Stop comparing the DMG only please, at least once guys, at least once.

Midway has its DMG because of its specialization on killing big beefy ships, with its brutal spread of 9.5k dmg torps. On the other hand the Hakuryu is way more suitable on torping the smaller vessels like DDs, because the speed of the dropped torps is 41kts instead of 34kts as of those USN.

Just look at the experience difference of Midway vs Hakuryu, Hakuryu clearly wins and that is mainly because doing damage to less HP targets and I will bet that it is because lot of ppl started to play with 4/2/2 deck which gives you good number of shot down planes, which nets experience too but 0 dmg to statistics.

[Solial]

 

Stop comparing the DMG only please, at least once guys, at least once.

Midway has its DMG because of its specialization on killing big beefy ships, with its brutal spread of 9.5k dmg torps. On the other hand the Hakuryu is way more suitable on torping the smaller vessels like DDs, because the speed of the dropped torps is 41kts instead of 34kts as of those USN.

Just look at the experience difference of Midway vs Hakuryu, Hakuryu clearly wins and that is mainly because doing damage to less HP targets and I will bet that it is because lot of ppl started to play with 4/2/2 deck which gives you good number of shot down planes, which nets experience too but 0 dmg to statistics.

 

True, true. I looked like only focusing on damage. Usually I don't and I blame people who think skill is either damage or numbers of sunked ships or winrate. Anyway, what you say is true.

But I'm still thinking the actual 4drops-max dispersion / 6drops - low dispersion isn't a good thing. Factions have to have to own their own identity (yes) but I think WG actual design is full of flaws.

[Sharana]

Btw, I disagree when u talk about the Midway "a bit" OP: the gap between average Haku and average Midway is SO BIG. 110k in average for average players on Midways shows that there is a problem. I dont ask WG to rape Midway, I'm just saying.

For me, the actual problem of US drop is that a good US CV player almost doesn't give a crap of AA cruiser skill while for japanese it means "meh drop".

They are made for different things. Hakuryu can also take 4/2/2 deck and try to lower the enemy Midway's damage to lower level then his 2 TBs can do. Midway on the other hand is pretty much the best anti-BB thing you can find. For that reason it has more focused damage (spread) and more durability vs AA (spread again), because the main targets are BBs which are supposed to be escorted. If the enemy ships are low tier with weak AA and or unescorted it becomes OP and stats reflect it as that's the normal case - Essex vs tier 8 ships. They might slightly nerf it so that the difference is not so big, but the main goal is it to be balanced for it's tier which is tier X like clan wars battles. Hakuryu is great at killing DDs and cruisers which contributes a lot towards the team and the personal rewards are pretty good (look at the exp). 

 

Though... Can you honestly say that a Taiho could have pulled off the same thing?

If not, then something is clearly not right since Japanese Carriers are supposed to be more offensive ( given US better fighters ).

Interesting stats. They show us that US is ahead in both damage caused, warships destroyed and aircraft destroyed for Tier 9.

The question is, how can Essex lose so much more despite being superior in all fields?

They were, but as you see things changed - USN strike deck is better and IJN air superiority deck is better. That's the reality and it probably won't change even with the new IJN spread.

 

Nuking BBs for high damage is not iWin button. When you concentrate on damage only you may lose, because simply damage doesn't carry (unless it's one of those 200K+ damage). One of the first things they said about IJN CVs is that they will have more squadrons and more tools to influence a battle. They will take more skill (the new spread that was delayed), but they give you more tools to influence the outcome  even if it's not as personally benefitial as damage and kills.

Also when pape plays his Midway he always starts with DDs and is not going after the fat BBs while there are DDs around in domination game. It's harder to kill them with Midway compared to Hakuryu, yet it's far away from impossible and he does it while many other probably will go farm damage on BBs and lose with points as I always observe playing my BBs (NC and Tirplitz). The ability to take out smaller targets on specific plances is in many cases more important then nuking some bad BB (as you will rarely nuke good one preventing big damage to your teammates). For some it might not be as fun, yet doesn't mean it's worse and in many cases it's even more rewarding (look at the exp).

 

But I'm still thinking the actual 4drops-max dispersion / 6drops - low dispersion isn't a good thing. Factions have to have to own their own identity (yes) but I think WG actual design is full of flaws.

The current IJN spread is placeholder until their planned one is ready (problems with the game engine). They are supposed to have inversed spread where the longer the torps travel the more tight the spread gets, so when it's ready you are supposed to have the same tight spread, but when you drop from further away with big lead (more skill to pull it off then the USN point blank drop). Tight spread (as USN) combined with the fast IJN torps proved very OP on point blank distance in CBT and the spread was nerfed. 

[Solial]

Don't worry, I wasn't thinking on creating a tight spread with IJN torps speed

 

And yeah, it's not the first time you talk about this future IJN drop modification but, right now, I'm focused on... right now :p Because the game will leave "OB Phase". I hope the idea you're talking about will be perfectly tuned because it could be full of easy flaws too. I'll be happy to try it the day it'll be live. Untill that day we have no other choice than to talk about present !

[Lord_WC]

They are supposed to have inversed spread where the longer the torps travel the more tight the spread gets, so when it's ready you are supposed to have the same tight spread, but when you drop from further away with big lead (more skill to pull it off then the USN point blank drop). 

That actually sounds brilliant.

[Hauptbahnhof]

The current IJN spread is placeholder until their planned one is ready (problems with the game engine). They are supposed to have inversed spread where the longer the torps travel the more tight the spread gets, so when it's ready you are supposed to have the same tight spread, but when you drop from further away with big lead (more skill to pull it off then the USN point blank drop).

 

Which means they are releasing the game without all game mechanics being finished coding or even in testing yet.

 

And what about Soviet, German and UK Carriers? Will they also have Unique drop mechanics?

 

It's pretty fair bet they will have 5 airplanes per squad... But how will their torpedo spreads look and work? Not even wargaming seems to know that yet...  :S

[mtm78]

Hahaha.

 

Ha.

 

Hahahahahaha.

 

I mean really?

 

You want a lone BB to have AA so powerful it shoots down whole squadrons of planes? A Montana can already kill 2-5 full upgraded T10 planes on an attack if it's completely isolated. You guys realize that ships can drive together right? And you guys realize AA damage actually stacks?

So you are demanding that a lone BB gets barely hit by anything and if it has a single other ship with it becomes completely invulnerable to carrier attacks?

 

I believe they missed your note, as currently AAA damage does not stack nor is remembered when a plane leaves a ships AAA aura..

[II_Nemesis_II]

 

I believe they missed your note, as currently AAA damage does not stack nor is remembered when a plane leaves a ships AAA aura..

 

AA damage does not stack? So you're saying that entering AA aura of one ship is the same as entering AA aura of entire team? My experience quite differs.

[Sharana]

Depends how do you define "stack". If the planes have 1 000hp and 2 ships with 100 dps in their AA aura the damage won't stack for combination of 200dps killing a plane each 5 seconds. Instead each ship will damage different plane (of the same squadron if they focus the same) with his 100 dps so each 10 seconds 2 planes should be destroyed.

That's easy to see when you attack group of ships with weak AA and you almost don't lose planes, because their AA damage is not "combined"/"stacked" and they don't have enough time to kill a plane each with their low AA dps.

[Iron_Gekko]

Don't we already have dozens of topics like this? Can't we just continue those?

[mtm78]

 

AA damage does not stack? So you're saying that entering AA aura of one ship is the same as entering AA aura of entire team? My experience quite differs.

 

I could quote Sharana in previous posts but he explained below your post 

[Gatt]

In case you don't know WG decided not to make World of Battleships and they know many come to play BBs and expect to play singleplayer vs bots stomping small ships left and right. They can be pretty shocked when they can't and they start to whine.

Anyway WG sets target goals and BBs are 25-30% while CVs are 10-15%. As you see it's not exactly "majority" and "minority" and definitely not all BB's fun get "ruined". only the bad whining player's one. WG said they will NOT make BBs universal ships that will be fun for everyone - they have cruisers for that and cruisers should make ~40%. They say to whining BBs that BBs are not for everyone and if they fail in them or don't enjoy the gameplay they should switch to cruisers, because the ones that can play BBs don't complain.

 

It is not World of Aerial Torpedos either. 2 CVs can spam my side of the map with 4-6 TB squadrons in what, 60-90 seconds after the battle start?

 

It is even worst than WoT. At least, there, arty must take position, then send scouts deep in my side of the map, then spot me and only then spam me with Pershings.

 

And again, WG cannot decide how many players will play CV, BB, CA and DD. Players play whatever they want but mainly what give them most fun.

 

Lets see in 6-12 months if players will accept to be split as WG wants and not as THEY want.

[BrushWolf2]

 

It is not World of Aerial Torpedos either. 2 CVs can spam my side of the map with 4-6 TB squadrons in what, 60-90 seconds after the battle start?

 

It is even worst than WoT. At least, there, arty must take position, then send scouts deep in my side of the map, then spot me and only then spam me with Pershings.

 

And again, WG cannot decide how many players will play CV, BB, CA and DD. Players play whatever they want but mainly what give them most fun.

 

Lets see in 6-12 months if players will accept to be split as WG wants and not as THEY want.

 

Depending on the map you can be under fire from BB's within 60 seconds. I had that happen in my first Fuso match which was a nightmare in other ways too, got torpedoed by an invisible TB squad, suddenly the torps were there, I saw the fighters and the DB's though

[_Conan_Librarian_]

 

so, the fact that i manage to dodge ALMOST all torps when some noob member of the CV mafia is around, but get oneshot if the CVs are good at cross attacks, is something i can influence somehow.

don't forget that turning to throw off a CVs aim is not the goal of the game. that's gunning other ships and securing cap zones. CVs only encourage camping with all fleet circling the base.

 

carriers are just another game-breaking element, not exactly like arty in WoT, but very close. i never saw anyone defending them except the exploiters

 

This 100 x

[AgarwaenME]

 

It is not World of Aerial Torpedos either. 2 CVs can spam my side of the map with 4-6 TB squadrons in what, 60-90 seconds after the battle start?

 

It is even worst than WoT. At least, there, arty must take position, then send scouts deep in my side of the map, then spot me and only then spam me with Pershings.

 

And again, WG cannot decide how many players will play CV, BB, CA and DD. Players play whatever they want but mainly what give them most fun.

 

Lets see in 6-12 months if players will accept to be split as WG wants and not as THEY want.

 

It takes about 45 seconds from start of the battle before those planes are even ready to take off. Then add the time needed to take off (~10 secs per squad), group them up, find a target, manouver around enemy fighters, maybe switch target because a couple AAA cruisers popped up that you didn't see before you got close, then line up an attack.

 

Nor is the chance that two T10 CVs will attack you coordinated anything remotely close to having 2-3 BBs focusing you because you were the closest targets, each salvo of AP spam coming out of their artillery barrels every 30 seconds, and each salvo having the potential to do 150k damage.

[AgarwaenME]

 

This 100 x

 

Unsurprisingly people like you agree 100x with completely untrue and ignorant posts.

[RepSrb]

funny i get oneshotted in t8 mogami with 100%hp, with 7 ap from iowa and its ok? its a BB !

ore also 7 ap from tirpitz with  90% hp also oneshotted.

and i was at 45 degrees so not even broadside loollollolol.

or charging head to head to zao and oneshotted by frontal gunns.

etc. many examples personal and observed...

yet when cv damages them hard they whine like no tommorow....