T9 Essex oneshotting a T10 Montana in one attack run.

[Karaya1]

The solution is quiet simple.

 

Improvement of AA.

Or kick the ridiculous plane mechanic that resets the HP pool of squadrons after leaving the AA zone and/or kick the other ridiculous mechanic where squadrons have a separat HP pool when taking AA fire from different ships.

 

 

 

Just changing either of those things would make CVs so much worse, but would probably be enough to appease all but the most hardcore whiners. And before there are people attacking me, Im mostly a BB player myself. I rarely ever get sunk by CVs.

[AgarwaenME]

 

You know very well that balance doesnt mean that CA should do the same dmg as BB. Balance mean that one class should not dominate the others. It will take time but eventually the whole CV system will be better tuned.

 

Players get tired quickly when they get annihilated after 60 seconds by someone sitting on the other side of the map. You know, I thought WoWS would have been like Denmark Strait AND Midway. Not almost only like TD & DB vs Warships.

 

 

So, suddenly it's ok that one class does more damage, (and cbt stats actually put BBs barely behind CVs at higher tiers, and the lower tier CVs have had serious nerfs). As for CAs, currently they do less damage, barely have higher speed in higher tiers, and have way worse armour and hp. With the side effect that the endless BB mafia crying has turned both counters to BBs far worse, so your role as your BBs escort bit*h has  been mostly taken away too.  So yes, they're different, differently worse in most ways.

 

Nor is any CV going to be annihilating you before a minute has gone. Nor is that any different from a BB erasing your CA from 5km beyond your maximum range.

[bigdoguk]

The click is strong with this one

 

[Gatt]

 

So, suddenly it's ok that one class does more damage, (and cbt stats actually put BBs barely behind CVs at higher tiers, and the lower tier CVs have had serious nerfs). As for CAs, currently they do less damage, barely have higher speed in higher tiers, and have way worse armour and hp. With the side effect that the endless BB mafia crying has turned both counters to BBs far worse, so your role as your BBs escort bit*h has  been mostly taken away too.  So yes, they're different, differently worse in most ways.

 

Nor is any CV going to be annihilating you before a minute has gone. Nor is that any different from a BB erasing your CA from 5km beyond your maximum range.

 

Frankly speaking, WoWS is a game, an arcade game, not a good combat simulation (like Warbirds, Aces High or Rise of Flight).

 

In arcade games, players learn how to game the game to win. And they mainly want to have fun. WG primary goal is to make players have fun. Their goal is not to teach them the secret of real naval combat. WG wont ever oblige players to move in packs just to avoid UFO torps. Players dont want to play 500-1000 battles only to learn how to dodge UFO torps. If they dont have fun they whine. If they whine, sooner or later WG will do something. And again, I'm pretty sure CV will be the target of these changes.

[goodman528]

 

Clearly this is perfectly balanced, the so called "AA BB" should get oneshot by a CV one tier lower, missing half his upgrades. Carry on.

 

Could you post videos of your other CV games where your planes all get shot down by the BB before you can drop?

 

Oh wait, you don't want to, because you want to farm negative votes. Anyone who has played CV above tier 6 have experienced good BB AA with dodging.

[Syrchalis]

Hahaha.

 

Ha.

 

Hahahahahaha.

 

I mean really?

 

You want a lone BB to have AA so powerful it shoots down whole squadrons of planes? A Montana can already kill 2-5 full upgraded T10 planes on an attack if it's completely isolated. You guys realize that ships can drive together right? And you guys realize AA damage actually stacks?

So you are demanding that a lone BB gets barely hit by anything and if it has a single other ship with it becomes completely invulnerable to carrier attacks?

[AgarwaenME]

 

Frankly speaking, WoWS is a game, an arcade game, not a good combat simulation (like Warbirds, Aces High or Rise of Flight).

 

In arcade games, players learn how to game the game to win. And they mainly want to have fun. WG primary goal is to make players have fun. Their goal is not to teach them the secret of real naval combat. WG wont ever oblige players to move in packs just to avoid UFO torps. Players dont want to play 500-1000 battles only to learn how to dodge UFO torps. If they dont have fun they whine. If they whine, sooner or later WG will do something. And again, I'm pretty sure CV will be the target of these changes.

 

Aside from the stupid description of torpedoes, and that some people somehow needs 500 battles to learn basic skills, then sure you're correct, people will whine instead of learning and they'll cry bitter tears before they face the fact that it's them failing.

 

On the other hand, neither are Hand of God Battleships erasing targets from 20k every 30 seconds with far fewer ways to avoid (beyond playing a BB for their absurd survivability) going to be something they'll allow forever.

 

Fact of the matter is, there's one singular group of players that have filled these forums with whines through the still short history of this game, and it's in no way the group of players playing the weakest class of ships in the game, nor the hardest to play.

[blacklabpictures]

I play Tirpitz, Izumo and Isizuchi. Before the last patch every game was like keeping fingers crossed not to have 2 enemy CV play against. Now when MM decides there is no CV i feel relived but game itself is...boring. i dont think CVs are OP now, they are strong enough to one shot kill BB but it happens ao rarely that have no real impact. I mean negative for BB players. And if u still feel like u got problem against CVs you should really reconsider.your style of play. Ie. team up with some Cleveland or.other cruiser, avoid being first target, sail close to other BBs with decent AA. In 40 games with my Izumo I was targeted by CVs few times, sunk twice because of their torps. Before the patch I was playing Amagi and trust me, every single game against CVs was nightmare.

[Slipz]

This is what we have been whining about for ages, But oh no it's perfectly balanced.

[Pupu_prpr]

 

Could you post videos of your other CV games where your planes all get shot down by the BB before you can drop?

 

Oh wait, you don't want to, because you want to farm negative votes. Anyone who has played CV above tier 6 have experienced good BB AA with dodging.

 

Huh? Which BB could possibly dodge and shoot down my planes? Montana has the best AA of them all and they are just as clunky as it is. All my planes getting shot down by a BB? I don't even know how I'd intentionally manage to achieve that, let alone accidentally.

[Gatt]

 

Aside from the stupid description of torpedoes, and that some people somehow needs 500 battles to learn basic skills, then sure you're correct, people will whine instead of learning and they'll cry bitter tears before they face the fact that it's them failing.

 

On the other hand, neither are Hand of God Battleships erasing targets from 20k every 30 seconds with far fewer ways to avoid (beyond playing a BB for their absurd survivability) going to be something they'll allow forever.

 

Fact of the matter is, there's one singular group of players that have filled these forums with whines through the still short history of this game, and it's in no way the group of players playing the weakest class of ships in the game, nor the hardest to play.

 

UFO-torps is obviously an oversemplification. I mean torps appearing too late, torps dropped apparently on beaches and cliffs, torps coming from ghost DD not visible at very close distance, etc.

 

You must consider that there are a (small) group of skilled players who master CV's and are able to avoid/dodge/minimize torps and torps effect on gameplay. Problem is that the vast majority is (and wont be) able to do it. Many players come here to play BBs. Up to Tier VII BBs seems to have very poor AA defence as well.

 

A relatively small group of good player in CVs are, lets say, "ruining" the fun factor to a big group of BB players. As in WoT, the big group will eventually prevail and make the small group's ships nerfed. So called un-skilled players get tired soon and whines, and stop to play. Again, this is not a combat simulator. This is as arcade as BF or other shooters. It is identified as arcade even in the own developers words. It is arcade in the words of skilled players as well. So, why a casual players should accept CVs as they are now? They want immediate fun, and if they dont get it they whine.

 

It happened in WoT with the old Patton. Most Patton dedicated players were so good that in the end they involuntarily got it nerfed. I mean, WG nerfed it in order to have it the same average stats of other medium tanks. Skilled players cant make other players learn-to-play, not as it should.

 

I know it is a strange way to manage things but it is WG's way. Thats why (I guess that) CV will be changed in the near future.

 

P.S.: WG is compelling players with BBs up to Tier V-VI (the core of WG gamers) to play and fight against CVs. These BB's have poor or no AA defence. How long time will it take to those players to understand that this in un-historical and unfair (in an arcade-playing view)? Warships up to some Tiers V (maybe +/- one Tier) should not see any CV on the battlefield.

 

 

[Aerroon]

Yep a YT video proves everything 

 

This Montana was burning and under HE spam which means some AA guns were lost. Then it clearly had no AA specializations (modules and perks) that's why the AA is not good enough against bombers with module and perk for more hp.

Even my North Carolina with all the AA stuff kills more planes, was attacked by Midway yesterday in a same way and killed 5/12 TBs eating only 5 torps total.

 

Shh, Sharana, shh. It's Flamu we're talking about. He just ignores all the inconvenient things like the BB being shot at by other people or similar. Otherwise he can't call it a "one shot" for emphasis, now can he?!

[Seinta]

 

Huh? Which BB could possibly dodge and shoot down my planes? Montana has the best AA of them all and they are just as clunky as it is. All my planes getting shot down by a BB? I don't even know how I'd intentionally manage to achieve that, let alone accidentally.

 

The escorted BB can shoot down all of your planes.

This is a team oriented game and just as a CV can kill a solo BB with perfect strikes, a DD can stealth torp a solo BB to death.

Every ship has a role.

[Hauptbahnhof]

That video is US TBs in a nutshell. 10 hits from 2 squadrons. You'd be lucky to get 6 hits with IJN TBs.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Don't forget that US torps do MORE damage as well!  ( 9 867 from Essex versus 8 567 from Taiho).

 

10 hits from Essex is 98670 potential damage which is close to twice as much as 51402 potential damage ( 6 hits from 3 Taiho TB squads ).

 

And Japanese CVs were supposed to be all about torpedo bombers....

Great balance there wargaming when the US torpedo bombers can do twice the effective damage in practice.

 

 

So in essence US Carriers get Better AA, Better Fighters, Better Divebombers, Better Torpedobombers, faster turnaround time of all planes and IJN Carriers get...  a few km less detection range...

[Gatt]

 

The escorted BB can shoot down all of your planes.

This is a team oriented game and just as a CV can kill a solo BB with perfect strikes, a DD can stealth torp a solo BB to death.

Every ship has a role.

 

Yeah, even WoT should be a team oriented game. However, guess what, after 3 years it is not. It is still a free for all game and randomness plays a major role in the outcome of battles.

 

WG and CV dedicated players will not be able to change the arcade player mentality and force CA to escort BB. The only result they get is to create lemming trains of players scared to remain alone or in too small groups.

 

 

[specialkha]

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Don't forget that US torps do MORE damage as well!  ( 9 867 from Essex versus 8 567 from Taiho).

 

10 hits from Essex is 98670 potential damage which is close to twice as much as 51402 potential damage ( 6 hits from 3 Taiho TB squads ).

 

And Japanese CVs were supposed to be all about torpedo bombers....

Great balance there wargaming when the US torpedo bombers can do twice the effective damage in practice.

 

 

So in essence US Carriers get Better AA, Better Fighters, Better Divebombers, Better Torpedobombers, faster turnaround time of all planes and IJN Carriers get...  a few km less detection range...

 

IJN CVs can shoot at DD and CA far easier than USN CVs. Just saying.

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

IJN CVs can shoot at DD and CA far easier than USN CVs. Just saying.

 

Not really such a big difference anymore though after they removed the "oneshot" midsection damage bonus on DDs and increased both arming distance and drop setup distance on IJN torps. ( One torp hit is not enough anymore ).

 

The IJN spread will also leave much bigger holes to sail through.

 

Only a US torp spread can "oneshoot" a DD by hitting it with 2 torps, but getting it right requires alot skill and luck, just like getting hits with IJN torps on DDs.

 

 

For CAs yes, IJN has a bigger chance to score any hits, but with a good drop the US still will cause 3-4x damage per drop while the Jap drop will only score 1 hit normally against cruisers.

 

US Torp drops is basically more skill based due to the tighter spread and focused firepower.

[Sharana]

Many players come here to play BBs. Up to Tier VII BBs seems to have very poor AA defence as well.

 

A relatively small group of good player in CVs are, lets say, "ruining" the fun factor to a big group of BB players. As in WoT, the big group will eventually prevail and make the small group's ships nerfed. So called un-skilled players get tired soon and whines, and stop to play. 

 

In case you don't know WG decided not to make World of Battleships and they know many come to play BBs and expect to play singleplayer vs bots stomping small ships left and right. They can be pretty shocked when they can't and they start to whine.

Anyway WG sets target goals and BBs are 25-30% while CVs are 10-15%. As you see it's not exactly "majority" and "minority" and definitely not all BB's fun get "ruined". only the bad whining player's one. WG said they will NOT make BBs universal ships that will be fun for everyone - they have cruisers for that and cruisers should make ~40%. They say to whining BBs that BBs are not for everyone and if they fail in them or don't enjoy the gameplay they should switch to cruisers, because the ones that can play BBs don't complain.

[Syrchalis]

Current state of the game if everyone goes rushing around solo:

CV > BB > CA > DD

 

If everyone stays in a big blob:

BB > CV = CA > DD

 

I'm honestly not sure why BB players keep crying absolutely permanently through every day and every patch. Even now when they are at the top of the foodchain. DDs which are at the absolute bottom of the foodchain and are close to unplayable above T5 aren't crying ever really, even though they have all reason to. Cruisers which suffered hard from last patch, as they now consistently get oneshot at 15km aren't crying either. CVs that received a fat nerf bat cry because of it - like everyone who gets nerfed would. But BBs - oh they get buffs and still cry all day long. If I got 1 free XP for every time I hear a BB cry at me ingame when I sink him because he was completely alone and didn't even try to dodge my attack I would have enough to get a random line to T10.

[Admiral_noodle]

I do get the feeling that played well BBs are OP at the moment. Trouble is statistically I think BB drivers are generally worse so the stats look ok.

 

Meanwhile there have been plenty of games where I've dominated in a BB. I have a 61% WR with BBs and it can't just be luck (especially as my Myogi only had a 28% win rate pre patch!)

[Lord_WC]

Carriers have way too much damage. On every tier they do twice as much damage as others which is pretty bad. Noone should be special snowflakes, potential damage wise ships should be equal. Obviously if you are very good at a certain aspect of the game (sneaking around, doing manual drops, aiming like a boss, reading the minimap) you would excel in a certain ship type, but currently CVs just trump everyone else in damage dealt. Due to this they earn too much xp as well.

The other thing which should be considered taken away is plane spotting. CV planes shouldn't be able to spot. If they are the damage dealers as per above, why are they suddenly the scouts as well? Let them rely on their team, and have less impact on the outcome.

[Syrchalis]

Carriers have way too much damage. On every tier they do twice as much damage as others which is pretty bad. Noone should be special snowflakes, potential damage wise ships should be equal. Obviously if you are very good at a certain aspect of the game (sneaking around, doing manual drops, aiming like a boss, reading the minimap) you would excel in a certain ship type, but currently CVs just trump everyone else in damage dealt. Due to this they earn too much xp as well.

The other thing which should be considered taken away is plane spotting. CV planes shouldn't be able to spot. If they are the damage dealers as per above, why are they suddenly the scouts as well? Let them rely on their team, and have less impact on the outcome.

 

So much nonsense.

• Carriers can't efficiently cap/decap which is very important and every other class can, so naturally their damage needs to be a bit higher, so they are worth their spot
• On T10 - where people claim they are most OP (which is the exact opposite case) I often find some cruisers and BBs that play well match my damage consistently.
• XP is high on CVs no doubt, but I am sure WG will bring that in line eventually
• If you take away spotting you take away another support aspect of carriers, making them even more focused on damage only, which justifies their superior damage even more and I know you don't want that (DDs should however be much harder to spot by plane, because thats a real issue here)

[specialkha]

 

So much nonsense.

• Carriers can't efficiently cap/decap which is very important and every other class can, so naturally their damage needs to be a bit higher, so they are worth their spot
• On T10 - where people claim they are most OP (which is the exact opposite case) I often find some cruisers and BBs that play well match my damage consistently.
• XP is high on CVs no doubt, but I am sure WG will bring that in line eventually
• If you take away spotting you take away another support aspect of carriers, making them even more focused on damage only, which justifies their superior damage even more and I know you don't want that (DDs should however be much harder to spot by plane, because thats a real issue here)

 

They are the better ship to decap...

 

And the CVs are the best Support ship as well as the best dmg dealers. Nothing wrong here, huh?

[Lord_WC]

• Carriers can't efficiently cap/decap which is very important and every other class can, so naturally their damage needs to be a bit higher, so they are worth their spot

Dive bombers disagree with you. And a 'bit' higher is not twice.

 

• On T10 - where people claim they are most OP (which is the exact opposite case) I often find some cruisers and BBs that play well match my damage consistently.harder to spot by plane, because thats a real issue here

Show me a guy with 55% GWR that pulls off 170k average damage on a t10 BB.

 

• If you take away spotting you take away another support aspect of carriers, making them even more focused on damage only, which justifies their superior damage even more and I know you don't want that (DDs should however be much harder to spot by plane, because thats a real issue here)

Either you support or you deal damage. Currently CVs deal the best damage by a wide margin and they also have the best spot. This shouldn't stay. You know what's the only thing that a CV needs to be efficient? Meatshields so he can chew through the enemy hp faster than the other CV.

[Sharana]

Carriers have way too much damage. On every tier they do twice as much damage as others which is pretty bad. Noone should be special snowflakes, potential damage wise ships should be equal. Obviously if you are very good at a certain aspect of the game (sneaking around, doing manual drops, aiming like a boss, reading the minimap) you would excel in a certain ship type, but currently CVs just trump everyone else in damage dealt. Due to this they earn too much xp as well.

The other thing which should be considered taken away is plane spotting. CV planes shouldn't be able to spot. If they are the damage dealers as per above, why are they suddenly the scouts as well? Let them rely on their team, and have less impact on the outcome.

Yeah I'm sure you played after the patch and can say what changed and what didn't...

 

EU stats are either not ready yet or there was a problem with them. But the NA ones are published and this stats are only from 04.09 to 12.09, so the old patch stuff doesn't count here, only the fresh stats after the patch.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150912nt/average_class.html

 

 

div	name	class	players	total battles	average of rates
					battles	win	draw	lose	exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	survived	kill / death	point
1	Higher Tier	BB	5528	127195	23.01	47.80	4.70	47.50	3474	45590	0.73	2.37	0.49	1.17	45.65	1.56	25773
1	Higher Tier	CA	13980	189034	13.52	46.92	4.53	48.55	3824	28388	0.61	1.86	0.45	1.02	28.18	0.94	20997
1	Higher Tier	CV	2361	39999	16.94	47.00	4.86	48.14	4906	44220	0.75	18.20	0.15	1.43	66.66	2.46	31513
1	Higher Tier	DD	15567	228646	14.69	43.35	7.22	49.42	1359	15435	0.44	0.21	1.07	3.22	18.36	0.60	23103
2	Lower Tier	BB	106381	1475677	13.87	47.30	4.19	48.51	1309	24835	0.62	0.33	0.86	3.21	33.55	0.99	19800
2	Lower Tier	CA	116948	1593477	13.63	47.69	2.89	49.42	1304	18387	0.63	0.53	0.76	3.40	20.52	0.84	20022
2	Lower Tier	CV	27043	264821	9.79	47.18	4.70	48.12	2087	24755	0.51	10.62	0.18	0.87	50.43	1.05	25203
2	Lower Tier	DD	70683	894161	12.65	47.93	3.27	48.80	1411	17248	0.66	0.13	0.81	1.05	18.72	0.88	24391