T9 Essex oneshotting a T10 Montana in one attack run.

[AgarwaenME]

 

If you think managing "8 units" is hard. Lol at your RTS skill. While you manage your units, BB has to anticipate the flow of battle, as it can't project itself to anywhere on the map, it has to aim and anticipate the trajectory of targets, it has to manage its cooldown, so it can repair itself, it has to avoid torpedo and planes, as it is a big target, etc... While CV just point and click on the map and someone dies. Very well balanced And I play mostly DD btw.

 

And as usual, anyone from the BB mafia can only twist words and make strawmen. As if your ability to play RTS games in any way makes them easier or harder in comparison to other ships. Nor does CVs have any less of a need to watch how the battle flows, as they from the start of the battle has to actually mind the map.

 

And if you think it's just to "point and click" then you have no idea about CV play at all. Maybe you really should limit yourself to play BBs.

[ulcusrodens]

That is [edited], CV requires the same and even more. Proper CV captain must have superior map awareness, anticipate flow of the battle, decide when to support attack and when to defend. He has to closely follow trajectory of targets. Know when to move with team and when to sit back. What is the right time to engage enemy fighters. How to use fighter effectively to protect himself/allied ships.

 

CV has the main resposibility for outcome of the battle, because he can strike anywhere on the map. It is a matter of target priority / time required for a strike. Every other class can happily live in its own little "bubble" lets say 22km around him (much less for lower tiers) + cap zone. Every other class has its own obvious limits. IJN CV can kill any ship class if he is good enough, he can strike anywhere on the map. It is his responsibility to use this potential as best as he can. Btw if CV like Bogue (or any lowtier USN CV) screws up an attack, he just lost 20% of his dmg potential. In one "click", 20% of you game is thrown away just like that. What does BB do if he screws up aim of his shots? Fires again in 30 seconds...

 

the fact that playing carriers is not as easy as it seems and requires some management skill, doesn't mean absolutely that the game wouldnt get infinitely more fun if carriers did not exist.

let's put it straight. carriers killed "traditional" naval warfare. you can make a balanced game about shell-lobbing warships OR about little planes wrecking stuff. not about both.

[AgarwaenME]

 

so, if a BB (or another ship, for that, but BBs of course suffer more) stops doing whatever it was doing from the moment planes are sighted - let's say 7-8 km away - starts going in the wrong direction, takes sh1tloads of hits and a citadel or two, and manages to eat JUST 2-3 of torpedoes out of 8 or 12, repeating all that even a couple of times per minute in the very last phase of a game, you call it balanced. or fun.

 

Rewrite that, then change BB for CA, and CV for BB. Or BB for DD, and CV for CA.

 

Except that of course, a BB sends their click-kills once every 30 seconds.

[AgarwaenME]

 

the fact that playing carriers is not as easy as it seems and requires some management skill, doesn't mean absolutely that the game wouldnt get infinitely more fun if carriers did not exist.

let's put it straight. carriers killed "traditional" naval warfare. you can make a balanced game about shell-lobbing warships OR about little planes wrecking stuff. not about both.

 

However, this game has both. So if you don't like that, there's the door. 

[DtXpwnz]

 

the fact that playing carriers is not as easy as it seems and requires some management skill, doesn't mean absolutely that the game wouldnt get infinitely more fun if carriers did not exist.

let's put it straight. carriers killed "traditional" naval warfare. you can make a balanced game about shell-lobbing warships OR about little planes wrecking stuff. not about both.

 

If enemy moves in a "formation", lets say 3-4 ships (or even more), containing 1-2 cruisers, carrier pretty much cannot attack them, they are immune. And ppl staying together for AA protection and sharing those ridiculous floatplanes is quite normal at high tiers. It is the stragglers that get nuked by CVs. And it makes sense, CV influance is increasing over tiers, tier 9 and 10 carriers are strong and to play against them, you must play as a team. It makes sense even historically and it is working as intended (by what we know about WG intentions).

[Ragoutrabbit]

 

Now, which class of ships has the fewest abilities, and gets survivability bonuses in every possible manner ensuring they will live through most screwups, and have point and click guns that can kill anything in a single salvo? The single class with the lowest skill ceiling?

 

You mean the class that outperforms all other classes by a wide margin and doesn't have to put itself in danger to do so?

[ulcusrodens]

 

Rewrite that, then change BB for CA, and CV for BB. Or BB for DD, and CV for CA.

 

Except that of course, a BB sends their click-kills once every 30 seconds.

 

i've tried, but while putting WV in place of GM and WTF in place of FU and reading it in reverse order Satan appeared and kindly asked me to stop messing with black magic formulas.

that's the moment when i thought to ask you a question: you've never played anything except carriers, have you?

 

because if you think that anything in this game is remotely comparable to carriers, in terms of gameflow breaking, you must be the usual SPG player straight from WoT that found the perfect surrogate for his favourite trolling device. and of course you've got absolutely NO idea about BB gameplay.

[ulcusrodens]

 

However, this game has both. So if you don't like that, there's the door. 

 

this is a forum. here people discuss game related stuff. if you don't like it, there's a lot of porn on the net.

[AgarwaenME]

 

You mean the class that outperforms all other classes by a wide margin and doesn't have to itself in danger to do so?

 

Except of course, since a CVs fighting ability is directly tied to their planes, it actually puts itself into danger whenever it attacks. Nor did they outperform "all other classes" by a wide margin when that data was collected (hint there's a class of ship that was only a small margin behind, and it rhymes with "tattlesip"), and we have no official data from after the fairly severe nerfs they've already taken.

 

Nor does that either in any way relate to the skill ceiling of a class of ships, as it's an entirely different issue.

[Trainspite]

 

so, the fact that i manage to dodge ALMOST all torps when some noob member of the CV mafia is around, but get oneshot if the CVs are good at cross attacks, is something i can influence somehow.

don't forget that turning to throw off a CVs aim is not the goal of the game. that's gunning other ships and securing cap zones. CVs only encourage camping with all fleet circling the base.

 

carriers are just another game-breaking element, not exactly like arty in WoT, but very close. i never saw anyone defending them except the exploiters

 

Any skilled player who knows his trade will ruin your day. A skilled DD player will torpedo you from afar. A good battleship captain will blow other battleships and Cruisers clean out of the water. You can influence a BB scoring multiple citadel hits on you as much as you can influence a Carrier attacking you. 

 

Since CVs can kill you one 1 attack run if you are not paying attention, you should start trying to avoid them, It may not be the aim of the game, but you live a lot longer, and enjoy the game more. CVs encourage camping, yeah sure. Go play the game a bit more, and look at it logically. I'm sure you will find the answer.

 

And also, 0 CV games played since the CBT- where I had Houshou, Langley and the Indy/Bogue. I can't remember doing too well, and the only time I completely wiped out a ship was a South Carolina sailing in a dead straight line for 2 mins, which gave me more than enough time to line up an attack with 1 torp bomber squad. 

Simple as this: Carriers are not breaking the game, Past, Present, & with all the whining about them, the future as well.

[ulcusrodens]

 

If enemy moves in a "formation", lets say 3-4 ships (or even more), containing 1-2 cruisers, carrier pretty much cannot attack them, they are immune. And ppl staying together for AA protection and sharing those ridiculous floatplanes is quite normal at high tiers. It is the stragglers that get nuked by CVs. And it makes sense, CV influance is increasing over tiers, tier 9 and 10 carriers are strong and to play against them, you must play as a team. It makes sense even historically and it is working as intended (by what we know about WG intentions).

 

a tight formation with 2 AA specialized cruisers is a though nut to break, i agree. but, how often do you see it happen? and what happens when formations loosen, cruisers start hunting for destroyers and battleships begin to be more concerned about 3-4 ships firing at them than about AA defense?

carriers score their kills.

[AgarwaenME]

 

this is a forum. here people discuss game related stuff. if you don't like it, there's a lot of porn on the net.

 

No. This is a forum for this game, you want a different one.

[ulcusrodens]

 

Any skilled player who knows his trade will ruin your day. A skilled DD player will torpedo you from afar. A good battleship captain will blow other battleships and Cruisers clean out of the water. You can influence a BB scoring multiple citadel hits on you as much as you can influence a Carrier attacking you. 

 

Since CVs can kill you one 1 attack run if you are not paying attention, you should start trying to avoid them, It may not be the aim of the game, but you live a lot longer, and enjoy the game more. CVs encourage camping, yeah sure. Go play the game a bit more, and look at it logically. I'm sure you will find the answer.

 

And also, 0 CV games played since the CBT- where I had Houshou, Langley and the Indy/Bogue. I can't remember doing too well, and the only time I completely wiped out a ship was a South Carolina sailing in a dead straight line for 2 mins, which gave me more than enough time to line up an attack with 1 torp bomber squad. 

Simple as this: Carriers are not breaking the game, Past, Present, & with all the whining about them, the future as well.

 

the thing is, i almost never get torpedoed by destroyers. i often take lots of hits by carriers and believe me, i know how to dodge 'em torpedoes. i just can't spend 20 minutes dodging 4 TB formations when a couple of CVs decide that I am the only target worth firing at. if my aim in the game is to have some fun, at least.

[Gatt]

 

No. This is a forum for this game, you want a different one.

 

We are still in OBT and WG games change a lot even after release. So, this is a forum for the game everybody woukd like to have.

Forum cops and so called veterans are so fun.

 

 

[ulcusrodens]

 

No. This is a forum for this game, you want a different one.

 

exactly. we are discussing about the fact that carriers suck big time, that should be wiped from the game and - since there's no chance they'll ever be - should at least get a major nerf. the game is beta and yes, i'd definitely prefer a developement that doesn't put it in the miserable state of WoT with its arty plague (that will get a redesign, if i'm not wrong). beta testing is exactly this. if there's a game element that's not balanced or doesn't work fine, players comment (whine? say it as you prefer) and MAYBE developers give a second look to overall stats and change it. MAYBE.

 

i repeat, if you don't like different opinions in a forum, maybe YOU are in the wrong place.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

the thing is, i almost never get torpedoed by destroyers. i often take lots of hits by carriers and believe me, i know how to dodge 'em torpedoes. i just can't spend 20 minutes dodging 4 TB formations when a couple of CVs decide that I am the only target worth firing at. if my aim in the game is to have some fun, at least.

 

The problem is not the balance or that CVs are OP. This attack run took ages for the CV player to setup and I still think the BB could have potentially slowed down as well as turned. And he could have seen the planes coming and tried to get in with other ships. I do, and usually planes aren't too much of an issue. 

 

The problem is it can make a game utter crap for a player of the CV is set on destroying him. Frankly it's boring. And in a BB you can't shoot back and you can't hide. It's "right" but annoying as hell. I wish more players in carriers would just hit you once, spread their damage to help the team and not victimise people. 

 

I have played CVs in CBT. Didn't appeal. 

[AgarwaenME]

 

We are still in OBT and WG games change a lot even after release. So, this is a forum for the game everybody woukd like to have.

Forum cops and so called veterans are so fun.

 

 

 

How about just being slightly realistic? Do you really believe that WG would throw out CVs at this time in the game? And just to appease the lowest common denominator gamer? It's not merely a change, it's a complete redesign of the game.

[Gatt]

 

How about just being slightly realistic? Do you really believe that WG would throw out CVs at this time in the game? And just to appease the lowest common denominator gamer? It's not merely a change, it's a complete redesign of the game.

 

Of course not. However, given the actual maps dimension, torps drop model and dmg done by CV, I strongly believe that we are far from a balance in the battles. I so really hope that WG will find a better one in the future.

 

 

[Trainspite]

 

the thing is, i almost never get torpedoed by destroyers. i often take lots of hits by carriers and believe me, i know how to dodge 'em torpedoes. i just can't spend 20 minutes dodging 4 TB formations when a couple of CVs decide that I am the only target worth firing at. if my aim in the game is to have some fun, at least.

 

I can, as I have the patience to. And I have, and my team won. It was the Hiryu's & Ranger's loss for focusing my Warspite to the back of the map. It took them all game and 3 separate attacks and 1 combined attack to finally put the Grand old Lady down. If a player focuses you, its usually their loss. However this applies to any ship, in any match and any game. Not just WoWs. You just don't have the patience and tolerance, that is required with these games. You may feel its unfair because you are not directly damaging him. Yet I shot down at least a plane or two per torpedo that hit me. And severely limits his fighting capability.

[AgarwaenME]

 

exactly. we are discussing about the fact that carriers suck big time, that should be wiped from the game and - since there's no chance they'll ever be - should at least get a major nerf. the game is beta and yes, i'd definitely prefer a developement that doesn't put it in the miserable state of WoT with its arty plague (that will get a redesign, if i'm not wrong). beta testing is exactly this. if there's a game element that's not balanced or doesn't work fine, players comment (whine? say it as you prefer) and MAYBE developers give a second look to overall stats and change it. MAYBE.

 

i repeat, if you don't like different opinions in a forum, maybe YOU are in the wrong place.

 

They've had a major nerf, after another major nerf, but as usual for the likes of you, you ignore those if you even know about them. Nothing will ever be enough for the likes of you, who find it far easier to whine and cry than learning to handle something.

 

And it's amusing you talk about WoT arty, as you seem to love the one true arty-equivalent in this game.

 

And it's not about opinion, you don't have one, you only have an absurd uninformed whine requesting the devs should tear the game up and throw it in the bin and start all over and create some absurd monstrosity where BBs have no counters and every other class is just allowed in the game to make sure you have easy targets and to protect you from anything that could ever touch you.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Of course not. However, given the actual maps dimension, torps drop model and dmg done by CV, I strongly believe that we are far from a balance in the battles. I so really hope that WG will find a better one in the future.

 

 

 

And that was my point, it was an absurd request that is never going to happen.

 

And when we get more data post 0.4.1, you'll be fully behind nerfing whatever ship class is well ahead of the others? Because you're sorely lacking in your concern for the huge gap between BBs and CAs/DDs.

[S_R_D_R]

Unbalanced game

[True_Winterfeld]

The solution is quiet simple.

 

Improvement of AA.

Or kick the ridiculous plane mechanic that resets the HP pool of squadrons after leaving the AA zone and/or kick the other ridiculous mechanic where squadrons have a separat HP pool when taking AA fire from different ships.

Or change the minimum range of manual drop or kick that mechanic as well.

 

WG should try at least one of these things. Iam sure it could only improve the gaming experience for everybody thats not in a CV. Its still OBT and even if it where a finished product, this is not religion, nothing is carved in stone. Just a video game to have fun with and to make money for the company. Shouldnt be that difficult.

[Crysantos]

I'd like to put things into perspective and many of you know my opinion about CVs - buuut I think the "outrage" here is misplaced and one-sided.

 

I gotta admit, I have my own Montana and I'm often disappointed about how little you can do (with the strongest AA ingame without AA consumable) against a coordinated CV strike - but that coordinated CV strike usually takes some work. I play CVs myself and I know what a [edited] AA can be, it does take a lot of skill to maximize the impact you can have on a game. No, it's not just clicking - it takes as much situational awareness as any other class, but yes you're way out of harms way. I think WG took the right path to work on the MM, things got way better now that CVs get matched against each other, especially in mid-Tier.

 

High Tier battles... hard to say right now with the lack of proper TX battles. Right now we have many battles mixed from T VII - TX, which makes it easy for CVs to score easy hits without losing too much, on the same Tier CVs struggle way more. Do I think the Essex and Midway should get tweaked? Yep, I do - but minor changes, maybe change the spread a bit or tweak the actual damage applied to keep them in check. But in general the situation got improved a lot thanks to the latest patch, I'm sure WG is monitoring the current trends in the higher Tiers and might tweak here and there - the biggest issue I see is the ability to spot enemy DDs and their torps so easily plus the ability to strike anywhere - fueling would certainly be a nice way to make CVs be more engaged with their own fleet.

 

Anyways, poor Gandolf - he knows how to handle his ship and got rekt. May that mighty Montana rest in pieces

[Gatt]

 

And that was my point, it was an absurd request that is never going to happen.

 

And when we get more data post 0.4.1, you'll be fully behind nerfing whatever ship class is well ahead of the others? Because you're sorely lacking in your concern for the huge gap between BBs and CAs/DDs.

 

You know very well that balance doesnt mean that CA should do the same dmg as BB. Balance mean that one class should not dominate the others. It will take time but eventually the whole CV system will be better tuned.

 

Players get tired quickly when they get annihilated after 60 seconds by someone sitting on the other side of the map. You know, I thought WoWS would have been like Denmark Strait AND Midway. Not almost only like TD & DB vs Warships.