Destroyers - is 'smoking' it up a selfish habit?

[CloakingDonkey]

What I normally see happen, is a DD rushing towards the enemy. When he is close and in torprange he turns, fires his torps, and then he smokes, thus hiding all the enemies from his friends who are following further behind the DD.

 

Again, this is because doing stuff for your team is actively punished by the game. Don't blame players for the game's shortcomings ;)

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

Smoke is best used to cover yourself when running away and to cover friendlies retreating under heavy fire. I see alot of people use it to cover friendlies but more so in tiers 6 and up

 

[Mayv]

Mostly only use smoke for my own defense. I won't go out of my way to lay smoke for allies due to the long reload time on it.

 

However if there is a BB or CV nearby taking fire and TRYING to get to cover I will then lay smoke to assist their escape.

 

Otherwise it is pointless you are using something that could save yourself for the benefit of someone else that may be of questional value to the team for no direct reward.

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

Mostly only use smoke for my own defense. I won't go out of my way to lay smoke for allies due to the long reload time on it.

 

However if there is a BB or CV nearby taking fire and TRYING to get to cover I will then lay smoke to assist their escape.

 

Otherwise it is pointless you are using something that could save yourself for the benefit of someone else that may be of questional value to the team for no direct reward.

 

Questionable value maybe maybe not t least they are some else for the enemy to shoot

[Interdiction]

You get no points for helping other players .....You get nothing for spotting yet by simply being a spotter your putting your self at a huge risk

 

 

[Akula971]

I use smoke to break contact with the enemy. I also use smoke to hide friendly battleships who are on low health, so they can repair. I've never seen one yet, repair or make use of my smoke to escape. They just plough on regardless hoping that they can get a lucky shot on a 90% health enemy in thier 10% health ship. meh why bother?

[Nagine]

What I normally see happen, is a DD rushing towards the enemy. When he is close and in torprange he turns, fires his torps, and then he smokes, thus hiding all the enemies from his friends who are following further behind the DD.

 

I have a strong suspicion than in most cases those enemies were visible only thanks to the same frontline DD. If he got spotted, he has a right to use countermeasures and live for another spotting run.

 

BTW, some time ago I had a habit of asking team mates in critical situations, whether they need smoke cover. Almost never received "yes" answer. So if a friendly can't see or answer question in chat, I doubt he will be able to notice smoke cover appearing and start using it.

[TheCinC]

I would love to help out my teammates by using smoke, but..

 

1) I only have three canisters and a pretty long reload time.

2) It doesn't even work for me until I turn back and hide behind it, so never mind for the CA or BB which is going to keep going in the same direction and outrun my smokescreen in seconds, or which will still be spotted from a different angle.

3) It obscures the enemy as well and can make it harder for them to spot enemy ships.

 

I only use it when I really need it, for instance, when I run into an enemy DD that spots me, instantly resulting in his buddies shooting at me as well, or when I'm trying to slip past a more powerful enemy vessel on the way to take out the CV that is bothering my allies.

[Nechrom]

While using smoke to support your team may be a nice gesture, sacrificing one of your tools while sailing the ship lowest on the food chain might not be the best course of action.

 

DDs are weak enough as it is. Not having smoke available when you need it is another major handicap.

[VonVolks]

in the days of more smoke I used to. Now not so much, but still from time to time, if I think someone could really benefit from it....

 

Also if someone requests it, I'm always happy to listen!

[Vanhal]

You done well, i see from time to time DDs covering with smoke battered team mates, its called good teamplay, gj man.

 

I have a mixed feeling about this. In theory, it should work like that, but almost all the times i see DD use smoke, it works for the enemy, obscuring lone and/or damaged ships from being shot. They don't play for the team, just want to cover themselves. So the smoke nerf was one of the better moves by WG in my opinion, while i have nothing against DD cloaking itself. Before it was really crappy to see 3+ dd per side and half of the battlefield covered with heavy smoke for minutes.

[EsaTuunanen]

While using smoke to support your team may be a nice gesture, sacrificing one of your tools while sailing the ship lowest on the food chain might not be the best course of action.

 

DDs are weak enough as it is. Not having smoke available when you need it is another major handicap.

Depends on DD and situation who is where in food chain.

It might just turn out to be the cruiser which is in need of running away when facing good "gunship" DD.

I recently gunned down my second full hp Cleveland in Gremyashchy.

 

Anyway because of very slow reload and limited number I would always save smoke for when it's actually needed, meaning when you're trying to run away while being shot at.

If you use smoke already for "ingress" of non stealthy attack and you get spotted by DPM machine you're often f'ed up for any chance of egress.

 

When capable to stealth launch that smoke can just alert target to torpedo attack allowing early evasion.

So in those situations I wouldn't use it, which usually allows using one smoke for protecting team mates if between him and enemy.

[TheJezna]

Given how powerful US DD's are, I'm gonna keep every little ounce of an edge I can for myself and besides, as many ppl already said, most players are to stupid to make intelligent use of a smoke screen anyways.

 

EsaTuunanen: That's very nice that you gunned down two Clevelands. Now, how many times have you been gunned down by a Cleveland? What I'm saying is that just because it has happened once or twice doesn't change the fact gun-based DD's are crap compared to anything else in the game. And the fact that the you where using the only DD in the game that can actually reliably penetrate cruiser armor probably helped a bit.

[MacHopper]

Guilty as charged, M'lud! I often use my smoke canisters for my own benefit (usually after having tried an attack run on something that fails).

 

The problem is whenever I try to help other players, you just cannot predict what they will do. Go "Ah, he's going this way I shall smoke for him/cover him with AA/etc" and within 30 seconds the player has sailed off in the opposite direction to you. You can try to communicate with your fellow players but here's the response my team got tonight when we tried to warn a parked CV that a whole fleet of aircraft was on its way and he should move: " ..i.. ".

 

Yep, the team got the finger because we warned the cv he should move as there were aircraft on the way. Obviously once he died he started screaming about "yet another fail team" and how he would report us all and he demanded the enemy sink each and every one of us.

 

This thread is NOT about "noob teams" or insultingly rude and pig ignorant players, but it is that experience that informs us when trying to decide "do I do this for me and my score, my experience" or "do I do this for the team".

[EsaTuunanen]

Now, how many times have you been gunned down by a Cleveland? What I'm saying is that just because it has happened once or twice doesn't change the fact gun-based DD's are crap compared to anything else in the game. And the fact that the you where using the only DD in the game that can actually reliably penetrate cruiser armor probably helped a bit.

Once in open beta I think.

With their orbital trajectory guns Cleveland is less dangerous than other cruisers unless you do the mistake of gunning one from below 10km range.

That's where you need to keep cruisers in gun duel:

Near max range of your guns where they have hard time in aiming you while they're lot bigger target for you.

 

I haven't done enough testing to be completely sure, but I would say that Gremy's guns don't have high enough trajectory for plunging fire with AP.

For them to penetrate cruiser's belt armor consistently you need to be at most 8km distance and they offering their side at good angle.

And that just doesn't really work for Cleveland with it's special armor/citadel layout.

You can get some damage by hitting below turrets but HEs do same damage and don't require such aiming precision.

Again Aoba and Furutaka have "soft" armor with normal size citadel.

But even against them I would go for such short range AP attack only against low health target looking other way.

And just how often do they present 90 degree angle to shells and don't turn?

Usually only for one or two salvos unless completely tunnel visioning for something else than who's shooting at them.

 

127mm guns of USN DDs should be lot better for plunging fire.

I think some have used APs in Atlanta (same guns) against other CLs with decent success.

Beyound that exposing yourself to enemy from short ranges is simply really bad for chances to keep dishing out damage for whole match...

Unless target is occupied in shooting BB or cruiser and there are no other nearby enemies who could shoot at you.

[Iron_Gekko]

Played a game in my Sims and while the game was loading saw a game tip: 'Use smoke to cover allied ships' or something like this.

 

Now funny it said this because in a game just before this I had, on the spur of the moment, decided to backtrack on a map to escort a lone BB who was being hounded by 3 cruisers closing in on him. I used my smoke canister to help cover his escape and the chap was grateful for me helping him. The cover allowed him to land a few extra shots that discouraged the cruisers and they hung a little further back.

 

Now I got wondering, I've not played as many games as most here but I've not seen one game where I've personally witnessed DD's helping allies with their smoke, I've only seen them use it to cover themselves.

 

I never realised just how much I still have to learn, but it's opened my eyes a little more in terms of playing for your team. How many other DD players have employed smoke in this way? Is it something that's been going on for a while or is it standard practice to use it in 'self defence' only?

 

Good Job, sounds like you belong in a Division rather then playing alone. Teamplay is actually common amongst the players that know each other.

[allufewig]

People dont know how to use the smoke anyway.

 

Tried supporting a weaker flank once, popping smoke in front of my allies, even telling them that they can know sit back and shoot through the smoke or can safely turn to gain some distance and that I will spot for them. What happened? They just rushed through my smokrescreen towards the enemy with guns blazing.

 

Since that day I only use smoke to hide our cappers (because it doesnt require any thinking from them, they just have to keep sitting there) or for my own self-defense.

[Shaka_D]

 

Good Job, sounds like you belong in a Division rather then playing alone. Teamplay is actually common amongst the players that know each other.

 

Yeh, I'll be divisioning up soon hopefully, playing solo in randoms it's hard to fathom what the game plan is. At least with a few friendlies in chat you have some sort of a plan, which is better than no plan at all, haha.

[jimbo_516]

Personally I've seen DDs help me when i drive my BB or cruisers several times, particularly on the Ocean map.

 

Smoke can also be used aggressively for spotting.

By putting the smoke between the allied advance and the opponents and sitting inside and spotting, the DD effectively renders the enemy team unable to shoot back.

This is the way I tend to use it on my US destroyers.

 

Can you expand on that please. I mean, do you do long line of smoke and then backtrack, or release smoke and stop? I've learnt recently that once I deploy smoke it's better to slow down but never thought of hiding inside and sitting there. How long you can stay in the position?

[ReynoldsXD2]

Every DD that uses his smoke to cover allies is a hero to me.

[Berrserkr]

I use smoke for two reasons. The first is when I spot ahead of everyone else and get detected (usually by a hostile destroyer when I'n on a US destroyer, since staying out of spotting range from cruisers and battleships are no problem but those sneaky little buggers), getting the full attention from all the enemies ships and need to survive and the second is of course to set up a smoke screen for my team to hide behind when I'm spotting.

 

But you get way to little XP to play a supporting role unfortunatelly, which makes teamplay that much harder :/

[Exocet6951]

Why no smoke laying for others?

 

For the simple reasons that

a)They wouldn't even notice/give a f***

b)They wouldn't help you help if your life depended on it

 

If I see someone that can use the smoke to retreat, and I can use it to attack a bit, I'll do it, but don't expect me to cover 5 different battleships trying their hardest to never get in range of anything.