Destroyers - is 'smoking' it up a selfish habit?

[Shaka_D]

Played a game in my Sims and while the game was loading saw a game tip: 'Use smoke to cover allied ships' or something like this.

 

Now funny it said this because in a game just before this I had, on the spur of the moment, decided to backtrack on a map to escort a lone BB who was being hounded by 3 cruisers closing in on him. I used my smoke canister to help cover his escape and the chap was grateful for me helping him. The cover allowed him to land a few extra shots that discouraged the cruisers and they hung a little further back.

 

Now I got wondering, I've not played as many games as most here but I've not seen one game where I've personally witnessed DD's helping allies with their smoke, I've only seen them use it to cover themselves.

 

I never realised just how much I still have to learn, but it's opened my eyes a little more in terms of playing for your team. How many other DD players have employed smoke in this way? Is it something that's been going on for a while or is it standard practice to use it in 'self defence' only?

[_Conan_Librarian_]

You done well, i see from time to time DDs covering with smoke battered team mates, its called good teamplay, gj man. Myself got help from few DDs, they just send some torps in enemy direction and enemy turned back , that gives me chance to survive, sadly i cant say alot good about CV captains, almost never get AA cover or scouting if they sending they planes other side of map, kinda sad

[Userext]

I used smoke a lot trying to save team mates. I mostly dont even touch smoke in battles. Its kinda annoying sometimes i used smoke to cover a cruiser under fire he didnt stop left the smoke and died. But your team mates mostly dont need smoke. Not much people play their cards right and use consealment

[mtm78]

Played a game in my Sims and while the game was loading saw a game tip: 'Use smoke to cover allied ships' or something like this.

 

Now funny it said this because in a game just before this I had, on the spur of the moment, decided to backtrack on a map to escort a lone BB who was being hounded by 3 cruisers closing in on him. I used my smoke canister to help cover his escape and the chap was grateful for me helping him. The cover allowed him to land a few extra shots that discouraged the cruisers and they hung a little further back.

 

Now I got wondering, I've not played as many games as most here but I've not seen one game where I've personally witnessed DD's helping allies with their smoke, I've only seen them use it to cover themselves.

 

I never realised just how much I still have to learn, but it's opened my eyes a little more in terms of playing for your team. How many other DD players have employed smoke in this way? Is it something that's been going on for a while or is it standard practice to use it in 'self defence' only?

 

Its not always useful, especially if no ships are spotting the enemies other then you or the ships you're covering with smoke ( as neither you nor them can spot the ships behind the smoke themselves ). If you do it wrong, you're making it easier for the enemy team. 

 

In short: don't do this on a whim, if you're not sure what you're doing, don't. 

[GulvkluderGuld]

Personally I've seen DDs help me when i drive my BB or cruisers several times, particularly on the Ocean map.

 

Smoke can also be used aggressively for spotting.

By putting the smoke between the allied advance and the opponents and sitting inside and spotting, the DD effectively renders the enemy team unable to shoot back.

This is the way I tend to use it on my US destroyers.

[Shaka_D]

 

Its not always useful, especially if no ships are spotting the enemies other then you or the ships you're covering with smoke ( as neither you nor them can spot the ships behind the smoke themselves ). If you do it wrong, you're making it easier for the enemy team. 

 

In short: don't do this on a whim, if you're not sure what you're doing, don't. 

 

I agree fully, it's one of those 'be wise about it' decisions. A destroyers role is not to solely protect allies, so with-holding your smoke canister just for this purpose might be short-sighted. Suppose that all comes with experience.

[Tugnut]

A lot of players cant see past there nose wile playing... you try help some one but all that happens is you waist a smoke as there sail tohugh or past it not using it for effect

 

[bismark121]

> sadly i cant say alot good about CV captains, almost never get AA cover or scouting if they sending they planes other side of map, kinda sad

 

well usually they are helping the whole of the team by taking out a cv or any other type of ship but i cannot cover for all players (and some might not help if you insult them and order them around like a dog in-game for obvious reasons)

[Ascender]

The problem I found with trying to smoke up teammates is that they tend to...  drift out of the smoke laid. That is because 999/1000 times they do not anticipate being able to sit in an allied DDs smoke.

 

In all my games with DDs I have not managed to (successfully) cover an ally in smoke allowing a getaway. Usually aircraft or simply the sheer number of enemy ships mean they maintain line of sight with the guy they are shooting at, not to mention differences between his and my own direction usually meant he drove out of the smoke virtually immediately and if not immediately then after 10 seconds. Either way, this is very difficult to do when you are not in direct (voice) communication with someone.

[Userext]

The problem I found with trying to smoke up teammates is that they tend to...  drift out of the smoke laid. That is because 999/1000 times they do not anticipate being able to sit in an allied DDs smoke.

 

In all my games with DDs I have not managed to (successfully) cover an ally in smoke allowing a getaway. Usually aircraft or simply the sheer number of enemy ships mean they maintain line of sight with the guy they are shooting at, not to mention differences between his and my own direction usually meant he drove out of the smoke virtually immediately and if not immediately then after 10 seconds. Either way, this is very difficult to do when you are not in direct (voice) communication with someone.

 

i once saw a mogami get stuck between islands at north map smoked the area but enemy spammed shells after shells and that guy couldnt survive. He had full health when he was in smoke and we werent getting spotted by a plane. TOo much spam man too much

[_Conan_Librarian_]

 

well usually they are helping the whole of the team by taking out a cv or any other type of ship but i cannot cover for all players (and some might not help if you insult them and order them around like a dog in-game for obvious reasons)

 

True, still when 2 DDs hunting you as last survivor at one flank and u ask for help , its really so hard to spare 1 squad to ensure your own safety, i can easly kill DD when i see him, if not he will pass me or kill me and then go for carrier, so its not only for my comfort

[Isitari]

Covering CVs in smoke if they don't haul [edited]quickly enough can be good as can covering cappers as long as you keep spotting for them. Pity its not done by more people.

[Hesp]

 

Smoke is my treasure that will save my [edited]. I'm not giving it away on ships crashing against huge islands or carriers that do not move.

However I use it to hide allies in the capture zone.

 

[alalos]

 

i once saw a mogami get stuck between islands at north map smoked the area but enemy spammed shells after shells and that guy couldnt survive. He had full health when he was in smoke and we werent getting spotted by a plane. TOo much spam man too much

 

you don´t know how the system works...

peace out my friend. There are plenty of threads how the "spotting" works in this game.. look for one.

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the main problem is... you can even tell people you will smoke for them... they keeping rushing through the smoke... 4 seconds to just to see the %"§$"!"§ going through the smokewall ? Not worth it.

 

I rather keep my smoke for myself.. since i do have more impact in a game as some randoms.. sorry.. but it is the harsh reality.

Sometimes a CV does ask for smoke.... np man... yw... any1 is welcome if he asks.. since those people actual know what they are doing.

 

Even covering torp spots... people just mess it up and rushing through the clouds.. wth.. you can even explain what your doing.They just don´t get it.

 

If you want to smoke an ally... think about to slow down.. otherwise its useless anyways..

 

 

[Andreevson]

Sometimes when I play a destroyer (rarely) and see a friendly BB getting mauled by two or three enemy ships i will cover him in smoke so he can run and recover a bit at least.

[Ascender]

you don´t know how the system works...

peace out my friend. There are plenty of threads how the "spotting" works in this game.. look for one.

 

Tbh I think he knows fine you don't need to be so harsh. Like he said he smoked up a stationary target on which people were already shooting. These people knew he was not going anywhere fast and you can SEE a shell impact the ship, so as long as enough people keep shooting at it, and the Mogami keeps moving slowly enough, a single hit marker will alert everyone else shooting in that direction of the guy's position. As it is a Mogami death would come quickly because those things do not have a lot of armor or health to survive a concentrated barrage of several ships.

 

This scenario has nothing to do with how smoke works.

[alalos]

 

Tbh I think he knows fine you don't need to be so harsh. Like he said he smoked up a stationary target on which people were already shooting. These people knew he was not going anywhere fast and you can SEE a shell impact the ship, so as long as enough people keep shooting at it, and the Mogami keeps moving slowly enough, a single hit marker will alert everyone else shooting in that direction of the guy's position. As it is a Mogami death would come quickly because those things do not have a lot of armor or health to survive a concentrated barrage of several ships.

 

you dont get spotted when your firing when your inside/bheind the smoke... so he is talking [edited] !

 

1Ship smokewall 2ship firing .. ship 1 cant see ship 2 aslong ship 2 is behind or in the smokewall .. so stop keeping people stupid.. THANK YOU !

 

So we have 3 options 

1. planes ( he said there werent.. okay it is isnt option 1 )

2. another ship ( he says there wasn´t .. how could he know maybe a dd or something which could spot that guy from an ankle who knows )

3. he doesn´t know how smoke works... ( want me to explain that too ? )

 

oh and sorry if it is harsh..... cruel world.. there are no losers.. just 2nd winners.. holy moly.

 

[Unknown_Lifeform]

I've used smoke almost exclusively as a self defence tactic so far but recently had a game where I could have laid a smoke screen to protect a retreating battleship who was getting pummelled by the main enemy advance. It just never occurred to me to do that until after the game but I'm more concious of the possibilities now so I'll look out for situations in future games.

 

Like mtm78 says you do have to be careful as smoke works both ways - in another game I was rushing back to reset the cap and a "friendly" destroyer laid a smoke screen in front of me and then fell back, concealing the enemy as they capped and losing us the game. You need to make sure someone continues to spot the enemy otherwise you are just handicapping your own team.

[CloakingDonkey]

Ok here's the simple truth to all this "why aren't you supporting us poor battleships" bullcrap:

 

It doesn't give experience. Whether it is spending 3 minutes trying to get into position to provide smoke cover or driving alongside a battleship as a Cruiser, out of range of any enemy ships just shooting down planes.

 

It's pointless, it's not rewarded and as such, why the balls should I waste my precious time and potential xp/credits to marginally help out my teammates? Selfish? Yes. Is this game set up to promote selfish behaviour? AAAAALL the yes.

 

So as soon as wargaming either rewards smoking allies/shooting down planes properly, or as soon as Cruisers/DDs get an ability to bill their teammates for their exp/credit expenses, you will see DD and CA players do these things. Until then, we shall be busy getting our own experience by dealing damage, like everyone else. =)

[jimonwye]

Smoke has offensive and defensive uses of equal merit, used to get kills or hide self or team mates from damage.

I prefer to use it to get kills, though more often have to make a Smokey escape to cover my own mistakes.

[canuckster]

It will probably become a more common thing once team battles or whatever stronghold equivalent is implemented.

 

Thing is I see this as more of a USN DD thing, at least at mid tiers.

[Userext]

 

you don´t know how the system works...

peace out my friend. There are plenty of threads how the "spotting" works in this game.. look for one.

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the main problem is... you can even tell people you will smoke for them... they keeping rushing through the smoke... 4 seconds to just to see the %"§$"!"§ going through the smokewall ? Not worth it.

 

I rather keep my smoke for myself.. since i do have more impact in a game as some randoms.. sorry.. but it is the harsh reality.

Sometimes a CV does ask for smoke.... np man... yw... any1 is welcome if he asks.. since those people actual know what they are doing.

 

Even covering torp spots... people just mess it up and rushing through the clouds.. wth.. you can even explain what your doing.They just don´t get it.

 

If you want to smoke an ally... think about to slow down.. otherwise its useless anyways..

 

I went to smoke him. He didnt get stuck right that second he was going between those islands at the middle and his ship was simply too big. I smoked him and saw his request for me to smoke the area 1-2 seconds after i started smoke. I know how gmae mechanics work more than you

 

 

you dont get spotted when your firing when your inside/bheind the smoke... so he is talking [edited] !

 

1Ship smokewall 2ship firing .. ship 1 cant see ship 2 aslong ship 2 is behind or in the smokewall .. so stop keeping people stupid.. THANK YOU !

 

So we have 3 options 

1. planes ( he said there werent.. okay it is isnt option 1 )

2. another ship ( he says there wasn´t .. how could he know maybe a dd or something which could spot that guy from an ankle who knows )

3. he doesn´t know how smoke works... ( want me to explain that too ? )

 

oh and sorry if it is harsh..... cruel world.. there are no losers.. just 2nd winners.. holy moly.

 

You are just someone who doenst understand that you dont vanish because someone poped up smoke in front of you. Since you onlyp layed IJNDDs i dont expect you to understand how cruiser spam works

 

1-big ships if they hit an isalnd they arent going to move away in seconds

2-no one was spotting i had captain skills due to being CBT player which gave us skilled captains from the start

3- At which part do you NOT understand getting STUCK between islands mean?

 

Is it too hard being that ignorant?

 

In this photo i am no longer spotted. I am in smoke and as you would know you dont teleport just because you are behind smoke. You might want to learn game mechanics a bit better buddy.

[mtm78]

 

you dont get spotted when your firing when your inside/bheind the smoke... so he is talking [edited] !

 

1Ship smokewall 2ship firing .. ship 1 cant see ship 2 aslong ship 2 is behind or in the smokewall .. so stop keeping people stupid.. THANK YOU !

 

So we have 3 options 

1. planes ( he said there werent.. okay it is isnt option 1 )

2. another ship ( he says there wasn´t .. how could he know maybe a dd or something which could spot that guy from an ankle who knows )

3. he doesn´t know how smoke works... ( want me to explain that too ? )

 

oh and sorry if it is harsh..... cruel world.. there are no losers.. just 2nd winners.. holy moly.

 

 

Little man, it's only [edited] in your mind because you can't read. 

 

They were stationary before being spotted, they were covered in smoke but enemy kept shooting at expected place and sunk them. If this is over your head, please go read some threads about game mechanics.

 

Or you want to tell me I'm talking bs as well?

[ColonelPete]

The problem is, you cannot know if the smoke will help your teammate.

Maybe you mess up his target resolution, he cannot see enemy torpedos in time, etc....

 

Therefore I use the smoke 99% of the time for myself.

[Saltpastillen]

What I normally see happen, is a DD rushing towards the enemy. When he is close and in torprange he turns, fires his torps, and then he smokes, thus hiding all the enemies from his friends who are following further behind the DD.