Battleship secondaries

[Dominico]

Just an edit for people with reading comprehension issues of this post. CLOSE RANGE BUFF TO SECONDARIES ACCURACY VS LARGE TARGET. okay hope that's clear.

 

I just had a match where the secondaries came into play a lot and they are pretty poor.

 

I understand destroyer players complaining as it would make coming to 3 km death for a destroyer (something which should happen imo but wont) but the accuracy should scale.

 

So secondaries vs another battleship should be fairly accurate. Secondaries vs cruiser moderately accurate and for game play keep them chappy vs destroyers but me.  As they are now they are a bit pointless.  Not sure how this got past testing.

 

Closing in on a battleship SHOULD be super risky for any ship.especially a destroyer. However for game play I understand protecting destroyers but not cruisers and other battleships. 

 

So basically why not give accuracy depending on the target type.

[Bortasqu]

Nonono, you are getting it all wrong, WG should buff Destroyers.

 

Can't you see the problem why I can't facehug a Yamato forever and not die? Nerf BB's pl0x.

 

*Cough* sarcasm *cough*

[ScratxNeko]

Cruisers and battleships are already much bigger targets for the secondaries to hit. What else do you want?

[Seinta]

Did you have the Secondaries module? The differance is night and day!

[LilJumpa]

The upgraded and captain skilled Nagato  opens up with 9 *140mm and 4*127mm on each side at a Range of 7.2 km and a hitrate of 15% + Chance of fire

 

I would not call that pointless and I have 20 kills with my secondaries up to date.

 

Most people are just unaware of the strengths of some ships and either don't upgrade the secondaries or don't use them to their advantage because they stay too far back.

 

 

[AgarwaenME]

BBs already take a minimum level of skill, why award them even more for passively attacking anyone getting close?

 

And BBs already have all the advantages at long range, so sure.. lets give them all the advantages up close too.

 

CAs and DDs are only there to protect the guys doing their point and click game in their BBs after all, they should never be able to punish a BB for doing a poor tactical choice.

[4venger]

BBs already take a minimum level of skill, why award them even more for passively attacking anyone getting close?

 

And BBs already have all the advantages at long range, so sure.. lets give them all the advantages up close too.

 

CAs and DDs are only there to protect the guys doing their point and click game in their BBs after all, they should never be able to punish a BB for doing a poor tactical choice.

 

I disagree, crusers are the easiest to play close to high-tier carriers. I see why you are butthurt, because BBs have their built-in 'RNG machine of doom' where they can detonate or scrap a ship with citadels, but the aiming requires more attention than for example on a cruiser. DDs were never meant to protect anything, since all they can do is torp stuff to death. (or maybe burn a bit, but then again, 5 inchers.) And ofc, i notice many ppl just showing their broadside and not watching my reload or salvo being fired and they disappear. (lovely stuff :> ) I can see your point in BBs having a ton of HP giving them higher survivability, but thats what tehy are there for. Also, almost noone has the brain capacity to exploit the ultraslow-motion turret travers when close range. oh well

Back on topic, secondaries seems to be doing fine, but they only work with the module upgrade, without it they are pretty poor.

[Userext]

Ah... secondaries again.... 

 

Listen sun shine secondaries in this game is like back of your sword. Do you want to sharpen secondaries? Then you will have to give up on upgrades towards main guns. Do you want to sharpen main batteries? Then you ill have to give up on secondaries. WG simply cant allow you to have bothsides super sharp swords. That is kinda the point of balance. If they make everything equally suck then the game will be more noob friendly and balanced. If they make everything equally superpowerfull it wont be noob friendly. Because the noob doesnt know how to use his sword. He might even hold the sharp side trying to use it.

[AgarwaenME]

 

I disagree, crusers are the easiest to play close to high-tier carriers. I see why you are butthurt, because BBs have their built-in 'RNG machine of doom' where they can detonate or scrap a ship with citadels, but the aiming requires more attention than for example on a cruiser. DDs were never meant to protect anything, since all they can do is torp stuff to death. (or maybe burn a bit, but then again, 5 inchers.) And ofc, i notice many ppl just showing their broadside and not watching my reload or salvo being fired and they disappear. (lovely stuff :> ) I can see your point in BBs having a ton of HP giving them higher survivability, but thats what tehy are there for. Also, almost noone has the brain capacity to exploit the ultraslow-motion turret travers when close range. oh well

Back on topic, secondaries seems to be doing fine, but they only work with the module upgrade, without it they are pretty poor.

 

The only "butthurt" here seems to come from you.

 

High tier CVs require you to manage all your planes, the map, understand enemy AAA, trying to memorise which CA has used defensive fire, manouver around enemy planes (and float planes) and making sure your CV is safe and as close to the battle as you can. High tier CAs have to continually change ammo loadouts, possibly manage torpedoes and/or defensive fire, mind where they are in relation to attacking planes, and continually manouver to avoid fire, as a single BB shell can more or less take you out of the battle. In comparison a BB only needs to sit in scope view, lobbing shots as they reload and if not entirely blind pay notice to incoming planes (though after the recent nerfs to CVs, that's far less of a worry, clearly the whining from the BB mafia, the group that actually gets butthurt whenever they sink, works) and every 10 secs press s or w or a or d to make sure whatever long range torps were fired never will be on target. A BB can show it's broadside to a CA all night long and barely be punished for it, where a CA has to outturn both enemy BB shells and enemy CA shells. So, there's no comparison.

 

Thus, giving BBs an even greater ability to passively finish off anyone that gets close enough to kill it quickly, is beyond the pale.

 

P.S And if you think DDs aren't there to protect anything, then you lack too much of a clue about DD capabilities to have any usable opinion on them.

[Mormaz]

Should I remind people on one thing ?

 

Some battleship's secondaries fires AP... Yes.... Tier 3 to 8 IJN with their 140/150 mm guns.

 

I love mah Tirpitz. Full HE machine gun.

DD loves them.

[Dominico]

Which upgrade to secondaries are your ago on about. ? The range one?

 

 

[Userext]

Which upgrade to secondaries are your ago on about. ? The range one?

 

 

 

there are accuracy, range etc

[Dominico]

 

The only "butthurt" here seems to come from you.

 

High tier CVs require you to manage all your planes, the map, understand enemy AAA, trying to memorise which CA has used defensive fire, manouver around enemy planes (and float planes) and making sure your CV is safe and as close to the battle as you can. High tier CAs have to continually change ammo loadouts, possibly manage torpedoes and/or defensive fire, mind where they are in relation to attacking planes, and continually manouver to avoid fire, as a single BB shell can more or less take you out of the battle. In comparison a BB only needs to sit in scope view, lobbing shots as they reload and if not entirely blind pay notice to incoming planes (though after the recent nerfs to CVs, that's far less of a worry, clearly the whining from the BB mafia, the group that actually gets butthurt whenever they sink, works) and every 10 secs press s or w or a or d to make sure whatever long range torps were fired never will be on target. A BB can show it's broadside to a CA all night long and barely be punished for it, where a CA has to outturn both enemy BB shells and enemy CA shells. So, there's no comparison.

 

Thus, giving BBs an even greater ability to passively finish off anyone that gets close enough to kill it quickly, is beyond the pale.

 

P.S And if you think DDs aren't there to protect anything, then you lack too much of a clue about DD capabilities to have any usable opinion on them.

 

 

P's I would argue the opposite. In reality anyone getting that close to a battleship is being pandered to in easy mode by not being killed by secondaries.

 

Good destroyers either stay at range and top (japs) or use cover/enemy distraction to get closer (merican) but neither should be able to sail by the side of a battleship and survive long imo this is easy mode for destroyers and cruisers.

 

However as I said I understand it needshould to be like that for low skill destroyer players. But cruisers and battleships up close should get more hits imo. 

[Dominico]

 

there are accuracy, range etc

 

accuracy a captain skill or a mod?

[Userext]

 

accuracy a captain skill or a mod?

 

module its secondary battery modification 2 gives range and accuracy

[Dominico]

I'll have a look thanks. 

[SamStarion]

Ah... secondaries again.... 

 

Listen sun shine secondaries in this game is like back of your sword. Do you want to sharpen secondaries? Then you will have to give up on upgrades towards main guns. Do you want to sharpen main batteries? Then you ill have to give up on secondaries. WG simply cant allow you to have bothsides super sharp swords. That is kinda the point of balance. If they make everything equally suck then the game will be more noob friendly and balanced. If they make everything equally superpowerfull it wont be noob friendly. Because the noob doesnt know how to use his sword. He might even hold the sharp side trying to use it.

 

Even with module upgrades they are pretty bad. 300 shells fired only 50 hit and did 4-5k damage from 5-6km range. LOL

[Userext]

 

Even with module upgrades they are pretty bad. 300 shells fired only 50 hit and did 4-5k damage from 5-6km range. LOL

 

thats half of your hit ratio how is that bad?(50 out of 300 is %16.6 hit ratio)

 

Edit:

http://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/513240697-Tdrone/#tab=pvp/account-tab-detail-stats-pvp

Hit Ratio
Main battery	29%
Torpedoes	11%
Secondary battery	13%

[Ascender]

The problem is a lot of secondaries, IJN primarily, fire AP, small-caliber AP, and their performance reflects this completely. They will facewreck destroyers, be meh against cruisers and do nothing but bounce on battleships. As a general rule the dedicated secondaries (usually 140-155mm) fire AP and the dual-purpose ones (basically the ones that double as secondary guns and long range anti-air) fire HE.

 

The best comparison here I can give is between the Nagato and Amagi. The Amagi has double (yes double) the dual-purpose guns as secondaries compared to the Nagato, although the Amagi has less range I do find that WHEN the secondary guns come into play they are significantly more effective because of the higher amount of HE which are pretty equal versus destroyers to the AP ones but significantly better against cruisers and particularly battleships.

 

Anyways, to recap, I do not believe that accuracy is the problem. Their hit ratio is usually between 10% and 18% (my own is 15% at the moment), the problem is that when they hit they oftentimes do jack-all.

[inAbag]

Secondaries used to be pretty great in CBT. It make people think twice of getting too close to you for a prolonged time. Now WG has made it as if the crews manning the secondaries suffer from Parkinson's.

[alalos]

hit ratio should be 50% of the hit ratio of the players hit ratio... i would laugh my a.s off

[AgarwaenME]

 

 

P's I would argue the opposite. In reality anyone getting that close to a battleship is being pandered to in easy mode by not being killed by secondaries.

 

Good destroyers either stay at range and top (japs) or use cover/enemy distraction to get closer (merican) but neither should be able to sail by the side of a battleship and survive long imo this is easy mode for destroyers and cruisers.

 

However as I said I understand it needshould to be like that for low skill destroyer players. But cruisers and battleships up close should get more hits imo. 

 

Yes clearly, by making BBs safe at any ranges from any targets it's of course not pandering to BBs.

 

Neither have none suggested anything like "sailing by the side" of a BB.

 

Somehow not having to stay at a BBs ideal range for its main guns, is.. easy mode for those not in BBs. Somehow every other ship is "easy mode" when you're asking for buffs to make your own ship ideal at any range any any situation 

[Battledragon]

Not all battleships are equal when it comes to secondaries.  Nagato's Secondaries are excelent, strangely, better range than Amagi's.  Warspite too has good secondaries, you might not think so at first with only 4 152mm per side but they are far more accurate than most  and have the same range as Nagato's a tier lower.  I'm kind of hoping accurate secondaries might be a thing for the entire RN battleship line.

[Gatt]

Did you have the Secondaries module? The differance is night and day!

 

Do the secondary and AA ship's upgrades come on top of the Captain's secondary armament module (Advanced Firing Training; 4 training cost)? I mean: 20% + 20% to firing range ?

[Seinta]

 

Do the secondary and AA ship's upgrades come on top of the Captain's secondary armament module (Advanced Firing Training; 4 training cost)? I mean: 20% + 20% to firing range ?

 

Yes they do stack, but the accuracy comes from the secondary upgrade.