New Orleans Tier 8?

[Uberjava]

So I decided to get the New Orleans as I was, oddly enough, enjoying playing Tenryu and that ships part in sinking a NO class ship in WWII made me want to give the NO a try. I've played about ten games so far and it's been tricky. It handles well enough, shoots well enough but when compared to the Japanese tier 8 ship Atago it seems to be rather lacking.

 

The Atago has superior HP, more primary guns, shooting range, AP damage, useful torpedoes and also has a two shot repair ability (which is gold dust!). 

 

The New Orleans has more AA. 

 

It just doesn't seem to make much sense. 

 

 

 

 

[morgoroth]

sell this piece of crap, get mogami or bb and have fun

[bug]

New Orleans is not an effective cruiser. Baltimore and New Orleans both are very little rewarding compared to other cruisers. They just dont perform very well, especially against battleships and same/higher tier destroyers.

[Vadon90]

Sure the NO needs a slight buff, but it's not that bad. You get the jump on other cruisers with the relatively high concealment rate and you can escape bb's if you stop firing.

[wolfspyder]

The one thing i don''t understand about the NO is why does it only get 200 more hp's fully upgraded than a fully upgraded Cleve, the German or Japanese cruisers don't suffer like that.

[Panocek]

The one thing i don''t understand about the NO is why does it only get 200 more hp's fully upgraded than a fully upgraded Cleve, the German or Japanese cruisers don't suffer like that.

 

Because Cleve is tier 8 material pressed into tier 6 with nerfed RoF and AA. Give her proper AA (28x40mm), RoF (10/min) from those 6inchers and should handle herself at tier 8, maybe with ballistics tweak to reduce time to impact.

[T_H_0_R]

 

Because Cleve is tier 8 material pressed into tier 6 with nerfed RoF and AA. Give her proper AA (28x40mm), RoF (10/min) from those 6inchers and should handle herself at tier 8, maybe with ballistics tweak to reduce time to impact.

 

In its current version Cleve would suffer at T8. Especially in games with T9-10 that T8 often get. Cleve, Pepsi and NO all have relatively the same health pool.

 

Even with buffs, Cleve if moved up in a CL line should be no higher than T7. It is easy to kill them with Pepsi, but with NO its no contest if you know what you are doing.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Even with buffs, Cleve if moved up in a CL line should be no higher than T7. It is easy to kill them with Pepsi, but with NO its no contest if you know what you are doing.

How easy is to kill Mogami in NO? Cause you're looking at very similar ship when it will get moved. Shell ballistics will be buffed and propably RoF. Since high RoF CA are usually better (Kuma, Omaha, Cleveland and Mogami) I wouldn't really worry about that.

 

[T_H_0_R]

How easy is to kill Mogami in NO? Cause you're looking at very similar ship when it will get moved. Shell ballistics will be buffed and propably RoF. Since high RoF CA are usually better (Kuma, Omaha, Cleveland and Mogami) I wouldn't really worry about that.

 

 

Which Mogami are we talking about, 155 HE spammer or 203mm? The latter isn't a problem - if I am pointing only my bow at him, very easy. I took out full HP Mogami that way while he was able to only take 1/3 of my HP.

 

The above event happened late in the battle when most of the ships were sunk. Problem is very rarely you can afford sailing more or less in a straight line with an isolated ship as a target. Usually a BB will cit your from the other side of the map. 

 

Exactly that happened when I entered a cap with a Baltimore and Roon. Citadeled Balti, was about to do the same to Roon as he was showing me his side from under 10km when Iowa's shells landed and I was down to 1000 HP. For few seconds I couldn't maneuver as I was forced to point my bow at the two cruisers, and Roon finished me off. This example in general, summarizes high tier CA gameplay for me lol.

[Panocek]

Block Quote

 Even with buffs, Cleve if moved up in a CL line should be no higher than T7. It is easy to kill them with Pepsi, but with NO its no contest if you know what you are doing.

How easy is to kill Mogami in NO? Cause you're looking at very similar ship when it will get moved. Shell ballistics will be buffed and propably RoF. Since high RoF CA are usually better (Kuma, Omaha, Cleveland and Mogami) I wouldn't really worry about that.

 

 

There is table somewhere around the forums, which included shell velocities from cruiser guns. USN had the slowest and as I've did some research about USN guns, they seem to have "historical" shell velocity. As Cleveland and such don't have red star on them, so buffing that above historical specs is unlikely

 

Found them

 

table:

Hello ladies and gentlemen, 

 

Hope this comparison sheet will help u guys make better decisions which tree to pick, how to play, and possibly notice any imbalances within the cruiser classes. 

 

!!!!!Excel WoWs Comparison Sheet!!!!!

 

The Destroyers and Battleships can be found in their Tabs on the Excel sheets!

 

Hope this comparison helped u guys in picking which line to play, which ship to cry over, or which one to drool over and which one to rage over. I also hope these statistics might encourage some changes, as some are really needed. If nerfing is too much of a problem, then buffing their respective counterparts might be the solution.

 

As i stated before, the comments are usually my opinion and yours might differ, and if i have made any mistakes in calculations/observations do point me in the right direction please

I will most likely see u guys on the battlefield, and i will be glad to sink u to the bottom with a AP shell or 2

 

Exustio

 

source (no idea how reliable)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Main.htm

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

the 155 mm Mogami. 203 mm Mogami is inferior in every way, and we we're comparing it to Cleveland right? So, Cleveland at tier VIII would be a tougher Mogami with propably a little better RoF, but worse shell ballistics. But it's all pretty much speculation, so we don't know if he will get moved, to what tier and so on.

 

New Orleans is just horrible. It's not a poor ship per se, but it hit's BB power spike, without really improving it's performance compared to Pensacola. You can fight with CA's, when they are on 10 km or less, but if you encounter a good CA player, or a good B player - you are pretty much screwe, and there's nothing you can do about it. Camo is rather poor, 12,4 km if I remember - not stellar. You will be propably spotted by each of your counterparts faster - Atago, Mogami, Myoko - each will spot you before you spot them. Your RoF is bad, your HE dmg is bad, shell ballistics are bad, no torpedoes are bad. So, not really a ship one would look forward to play, although very good looking (one of my favourites in this regard).

 

Armour of NO is supposedly better then Pensacola's - but I didn't feel any difference to tell you the truth. I was citadeled from every angle, by everything, so I don't feel any difference.

[Spithas]

Camo is rather poor, 12,4 km if I remember - not stellar. 

 

It's camo isn't poor. Infact it's the main strength of the NO that you should exploit.

 

NO suffers from the same issue 203mm Mogami suffers when coming from the Myoko. Myoko and Pensacola are both ships with poor camo so people don't bother thinking about how to exploit it. Also most people just grind through the ships without spending enough time to learn each ship and the skills that are required to go with it.

 

So they reach tier 8 without a 5th captain skill. New Orleans can be skilled to run with a 9.5km detection range. Now i haven't tested it but it should give you some stealth fire from 14.(something)km to 16.2km which is the max range.

 

But the important thing is not the stealth fire the important thing is that you can pick your target... essentially an enemy cruiser and wait undetected until you are either close enough (10km) or he shows his broadside (best opportunity when he starts a hard turn) or both. That way most of the time you can engage enemy CA's with a clear advantage.

 

And if things don't turn out like you want, you can always stop firing and get de-spotted.

 

[T_H_0_R]

I do hear you Dropsiq. In Pepsi I excelled and will probably go back to when I unlock Baltimore (to elite NO). He 155 mm Mogamis are a problem, especially if paired up which usually happens on Ranked. And their shell trajectory is much faster and harder to dodge than Clevelands. Especially with Pepsi, it felt like bullying those Cleve drivers when I held them at bay over 10 km. If Cleve is to be pushed to T8, then shell trajectory needs a serious buff.

 

As for the rest, I am with Spithas. I got used to maneuvering qualities of Pepsi. NO is a bit sluggish, loses speed in turns more than Pepsi and has lower turning circle. So, while you can maneuver and avoid it isn't on the level you can with Pepsi. You have to rely on sneaking around and using her concealment that can be as low as 9.5 km. Might be even possible to surprise enemy DDs with it.

 

IIRC firing adds 6km to your spotting range. So 9.5 + 6 = 15.5 km while your max range is 16.2km. Probably possible to pepper BBs unseen at that range.

 

About those 203mm guns. Two days ago I citadeled Amagi on max range for 9k. The trick is to time your shots and move in and out of concealment. Slowely but steadily I am getting the hang of NO.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

I actually took it on rankeds. There is a difference on Zao and Des stealth shooting and NO stealth shooting - range is much closer. Which means, even if you stay at those 15 km you have a very high propability you will be spotted by scout/fighter planes, you need to be much closer to your enemy - increased propability of other stealth ship being nearby and spotting you. No, I'm totally against stealth shooting with CA's without at least 18 km range. 

 

In theory it's all cool and nice, but in practice it doesn't work. I did your test with camo on Atago, yeah it works. But it's so situational it's imho not worth the investment. And the risk you take when closing down - it's immense. The moment you think you are safe, you open on your target, and suddenly 2 more CA's and 1 DD open on you from stealth - a quick recipe for fast port visiting. 

 

But, to each it's own. It all depends on the playstyle at the end of the day. Although I advice to be carefull with camo build on CA's with short range.

 

 

[T_H_0_R]

I took both Pepsi and NO on ranked and only ended up with lowering my WR and not progressing any further than R10. Partially due to the fact I tried to play them both aggressively. NO is best played as a support ship, staying hidden and close to a group either of friendly CAs or BBs. In the second half of the match when you can tell where and what are enemy fleet movements you can go solo and aggressive if needed.

 

 

Armour of NO is supposedly better then Pensacola's - but I didn't feel any difference to tell you the truth. I was citadeled from every angle, by everything, so I don't feel any difference.

 

Armour is better than Pepsi. Only if you don't show your broadside. That won't stop 203mm shells it supposedly can take. Where I really found a difference vs. Pepsi's armor is when brawling against lower tiered ships. Cleveland and Nurnberg in particular. On one occasion I closed in on both of them and Cleveland's shells, even HE just bounced off me.

 

In theory it's all cool and nice, but in practice it doesn't work. I did your test with camo on Atago, yeah it works. But it's so situational it's imho not worth the investment. And the risk you take when closing down - it's immense. The moment you think you are safe, you open on your target, and suddenly 2 more CA's and 1 DD open on you from stealth - a quick recipe for fast port visiting.

 

True. The other day I closed in on enemy Hipper. Only to be welcomed by a DD and another Hipper that appeared behind an island. They tore me to pieces in less than a minute. As said - best played as a support ship covering your BBs or sailing with a group of other CA. IMHO.

[Spithas]

Unless they are Atago's or Mogami's that are using the same skillset as you (which is pretty rare judging by how reluctant people are to use these skill sets) then there is very little chance you will not spot them before they spot you.

Generally if you go to engage 1 ship and end up fighting 3 then the problem doesn't lie with the Ship it lies with the abilities of the player using it.

 

But even if you do end up in such a situation nothing stops you from stopping your ship and guns getting de-spotted and changing location... worst case scenario you'd eat 1.5 salvo from each and not at broadside.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

@Spithas

Aight man, like I said. I differ in my opinion about it. And, it's very very important to note, that such stuff will propably work only for a limited amount of time. With incoming CV buff, we can expect to return at least some of them to the battlefield, and when it happens - you are kinda screwed in stealth builds. 

[T_H_0_R]

I wouldn't be too sure about calling CV changes buffs. Sure, to most extent they are. But that penalty when you lose a squadron may significantly impact their gameplay for the worst. We will see once the patch goes live. All in all here is me hoping for them to return - thus restoring balance.

 

I am curious which skills/upgraded did you take with your NO Dropsiq?

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

When? On rankeds or when I grinded it at the start of OBT?

[T_H_0_R]

Both, if you will please. Interested in comparing your builds with mine.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

First one I don't remember exactly, but it was during the CV supremacy, so it was built heavily for AA protection:

1. Expert Loader (used to swap to AP a lot, and thought it would be nice to have back then)

1. Basic Firing Training

2. Expert Marksman

3. High Alert
4. Advanced Firing Training
i remember having Demolition Expert on that captain back then, but I don't know if I had it on NO.

That was my OBT skills if I remember correctly

 

On rankeds I used a fairly fresh captain, but he had those skills:
1. Basics of survivability

2. Expert Marksman

3. High Alert

4. Demoliton Expert

 

But that were skills picked only for rankeds, so they differ somewhat from those I would pick if the ship would be played on randoms:

1. BoS/SA
2. IFA/Expert Marksman - depending if I would pick SA on lvl 1

3. High Alert

4. Demoliton Expert

5. Camo or Jack of all trades.

 

That would be my pick now for randoms.

[T_H_0_R]

Thanks. This is pretty much in line with what I have now on my NO. Initially I started with this build for ranked:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/39066-new-orleans-captain-skills/

 

But then I swapped Gun Fire Control System Modification 1 for AA Guns Modification 2 since I find stock guns very accurate as is (two days ago managed to citadel Amagi on max range). Another reason being that on high tiers people rarely show their broadsides and maneuver more. This way more of my rounds hit when firing on max range. With GFSM 1 you need to aim accurately for maximum effect. And stock guns slightly higher spread helps when spraying DDs.

 

My captain now has the following skills:

 

• Expert Loader
• Expert Marksman
• Incoming Fire Alert *
• Vigilance
• Advanced Firing Training

 

Next in line will be Concealment Expert and possibly BFT if I ever reach 18. point. Instead of high alert, I opted for DCPII for 22500 credits. I use that on all my CA.

 

* God send / an absolute must have for in T9-10 battles where BBs can reach you from the other end of the map whilst you are dueling with another CA.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

I only have two "but(t)'s":

I personally would drop Expert Loader - I find that I approach my targets with shells already loaded, and if not - shooting 1 HE salvo is not really a bad choice. 

And Vigilance - with how CA can dodge torps - I find much less useful then other perks at that level. 

 

But I always say, that captain skills are pretty dependent on ones gamestyle, so if that setup floats your boat (oh, again, I'm on fire today! [another one]) - it's ok. 

 

If the CV will come back I would think about AFT, but right now I think this skill is not needed. 3% fire chance is better, as it's used much more often imho.

[T_H_0_R]

Expert loader I took simply to slightly increase my DPM, and to be able to react faster when a DD suddenly pops up or someone shows his broadside and I have HE loaded. When DD pops up and I have AP loaded, I can follow up with a HE salvo more quickly. And the firing window you get with a DD on high tiers before he drops smoke is short to begin with.

 

Vigilance over High alert due to immense amount of torpedoes at higher tiers. Even with it, on two occasions I couldn't avoid Shima's torp spread. Ate two fish and was back in my port.

 

However, I do agree that for Ranked 3% fire chance is better than AFT. Without a doubt.

 

 

That is a least what suites me now. Might reshuffle cpt. skills again in the future.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 That is a least what suites me now. Might reshuffle cpt. skills again in the future.

I did that when I finished Baltimore and had like 25 games in Des already. Which was a big mistake. I should change them as soon as I hit Baltimore. That would help me with grind a lot. And upgrading Balti with modules, which I didn't.  And I should. On Balti I would pick:

1. SA

1. BoS

2. Expert Marksman

3. Superintendent

3. High alert (after Concealment Expert - last choice)

4. Demolition Expert/AFT - depending on meta and preferances

5. Concealment Expert

 

Add to that module for range and camo + regular camo. That should help you survive and deal dmg quite decently.