New Orleans Tier 8?

[Sander93]

No need for personal attacks, I tried to understand your last post but the first sentence was unclear. However if you think cruisers are free kills to battleship then you're not playing them right. 

[AgarwaenME]

No need for personal attacks, I tried to understand your last post but the first sentence was unclear. However if you think cruisers are free kills to battleship then you're not playing them right. 

 

"No need for personal attacks" he said, then made a personal attack (nor were there any personal attacks in my post), nor is mine or your skill at killing BBs with CAs even relevant in such a discussion, as the facts are clear about CAs (especially USN ones) performance at tier 7+

[Sander93]

Which facts? The facts that people in cruisers generally go on banzai runs towards enemy battleships or expose their broadside all the time? The fact that most cruiser players don't even know they carry AP shells that can deal way more damage to cruisers than HE? The fact that most people can't play for crap does not mean the entire class is worthless. 

 

I have more average experience in cruisers than battleships on the same tier, and damage is usually 2/3 or 3/4 of my battleships'. Which is logical because I hunt targets with lower HP pools in my cruisers.

My cruisers are performing fine. All it takes is a bit of skill, watching the minimap and a proper playing style. And not pissing off battleships who don't have other targets. Small buffs here and there wouldn't hurt (improved shell velocity for USN comes to mind) but IMO there's nothing major. 

 

 

The only complaint I'd have is that in the USN tree, there's too little improvement in gun performance between tiers 7-9 compared to other classes. But then again I played the line in CBT when every ship still had only 4 RPM so it's not as bad as it was. 

[AgarwaenME]

Which facts? The facts that people in cruisers generally go on banzai runs towards enemy battleships or expose their broadside all the time? The fact that most cruiser players don't even know they carry AP shells that can deal way more damage to cruisers than HE? The fact that most people can't play for crap does not mean the entire class is worthless. 

 

I have more average experience in cruisers than battleships on the same tier, and damage is usually 2/3 or 3/4 of my battleships'. Which is logical because I hunt targets with lower HP pools in my cruisers.

My cruisers are performing fine. All it takes is a bit of skill, watching the minimap and a proper playing style. And not pissing off battleships who don't have other targets. Small buffs here and there wouldn't hurt (improved shell velocity for USN comes to mind) but IMO there's nothing major. 

 

 

The only complaint I'd have is that in the USN tree, there's too little improvement in gun performance between tiers 7-9 compared to other classes. But then again I played the line in CBT when every ship still had only 4 RPM so it's not as bad as it was. 

 

Those aren't facts, those are biases, you might want to learn the difference. Facts are the gathered statistics that shows CAs doing half the damage of equal tier BBs, and in other ways affecting battles far less. Pretending that playing poorly is a CA thing only is.. absurd, given how many people bought their way to T8 with tirpitz compared to the far lower amount of atagos. If anything you'd expect to see better stats for CAs due to the tirpitz plague, but that's (unsurprisingly as aside from torpedoes, CAs lack means to deal with tirpitzes) mostly been shown as as more damage done by CVs.

 

Nor am I saying that CAs need to do even close to similar damage, but there's a huge gap between half and where they ought to be comparatively.

 

And again, your or my personal experience in that regard isn't what they need to balance the game on.

[Sander93]

You're so fond of these statistics yet you never quote them. 

I also don't know why you would have expected better CA stats with the influx of Tirpitzes. Did you forget battleships are there to dominate the cruisers, and not the other way around?

 

If players actually paid attention to the game and learned how to play properly, cruisers would do fine. They do for me. I disagree that the game should be balanced around bobs. 

Then again, I gotta say it was lovely how in WoT WG kept buffing tanks (like 50B) because the reds didn't know how to play with them and dragged down all the statistics. 

[AgarwaenME]

You're so fond of these statistics yet you never quote them. 

I also don't know why you would have expected better CA stats with the influx of Tirpitzes. Did you forget battleships are there to dominate the cruisers, and not the other way around?

 

If players actually paid attention to the game and learned how to play properly, cruisers would do fine. They do for me. I disagree that the game should be balanced around bobs. 

Then again, I gotta say it was lovely how in WoT WG kept buffing tanks (like 50B) because the reds didn't know how to play with them and dragged down all the statistics. 

 

Sorry for having expected you to have seen them given how much they've been linked to on these forums, and that you wouldn't talk while lacking basic info like that.

 

And the point about tirpitzes is that they're very often captained by people entirely new to high tier play, so you'd expect them on average to perform worse, which they do, just that none of that windfall seems to drop on CAs (or especially USN CAs, as the Mogami just is a much better ship in nearly any respect than the NO)

 

And again, it has nothing to do with "bobs" as people on average just aren't performing nearly as well in CAs, and by not nearly as well, not by a longshot. And that's even visible between different CAs, as people do less damage and affect battles less after t6 with the USN Ca trees.

 

And again, that's even including the huge influx of low skilled BB captains in tirpitzes, which just shows that it is a fairly idiot proof ship and that mere skill in a CA can't negate a ship that can shrug of pretty much anything you do to it.

 

And the only way that WoT analogy works, is as used vs. BBs in this game, who's had nothing but buffs, or nerfs to those making troubles for them, for months on end.

[JapLance]

How about taking this conversation to PM and stop making people waste their time checking new messages in a thread devoted to the New Orleans cruiser?

[Dzsetajsan]

It is true that BBs should not have problems with sinking cruisers but at the competition we are forced to play our New Orelans All we get are Iowas Yamatos Montanas technically being stock the ship cannout outturn their salvos fast enough and they don't need a full barrage usually 1/each  salvo is a citadell pen we die with 3 pens that means 3 shots a tecnical barrage or 2 if he by some mirracle misses while we turn or wiggle but the NO is slow in that and t9 and t10 BB  captains know that. This comes down to eventually a range issue I can spam BBs to death with HE dealing 1000 ish avarage/shell that means if everything hits and deals damage all the time min 60 shells thats 7 salvos=100 seconds which in a bb can get 3 off (2 is generally enough to die) if he hadn't killed us with the 7 km range lead he had while we cannot shoot him and he shoots us. In high tiers dds spot and generally only leave BBs protective range when its cruiser clear els cvs or Cas pick them apart quick.

And now the ominous cleveland isssue. The clevland is soo hectically op because t4 captain skill with upgraded fire controlls extends its range to 19.6 km thats way above his tier and admitably its fireing accuraciy on that is poor but about out of the 70 battles I had with it like that it is accurate  about to 17.6 kms that is the highest of all cruisers in the USN tech tree( I don't play IJN) and simply comes down to the issue that if he spots you he will rape you to its cheating talent that generally ppl don't reach at t6 but some stay and pick it for the fun.

Solution would be to increase all cruiser fireing range to just 20% less than BB fireing range at all tiers everytiers st that with they still get their protective range and +20 with spotter aircraft. Cruisers become a bit better at dealing with bbs since they can start shooting sooner taking just 1 salvlo before able to return ( as minimum time tier of tier is about 2-3 mins/ bb with it takes to kill it 1-1.) Specially that MM above t7 usualy looks like least 5 BBs will be there if there is no cv then there is a high chnance of 6 bbs

[Vrumugun]

i dont know if you sit on your lines or what.

the balance goes like this

 

Battleships>Cruisers>Destroyers>Battleships

 

it's a close cycle. do you see DD players complaining that Cruisers take them out easily? no (sometimes with noobs) because thats natural, same goes for Cruisers and BBs... some of you cry here over valid game mechanics. and being a BB who got isolated and or cannot run away, you are turkeyshot for destro.

 

Im mostly BB player (with colorado i have to cry even when cruisers shoot me up), but i have also cruiser (pensa) and also DD (nicholas). from all those classes balance seems fine, id only boost torp damage and give it some rng (and thats coming from a BB player).

 

Cruisers should not be viable oponents to BB, so dont cry that they are not.

 

Unfortunately this work around Tier 5, but on tier 7 its broken. Check forum and you will see DD players  complaining that BBs own them on 1:1 (not CA).

Especially Tier 6-7 US DDs and tier 7-9 CAs are considered underperforming for various reasons .

US DDs as T6-7(8) you have shorter torp range then concealment and enemy (solo BB included) can easily kill you beyond max torp range. It was even more or less officially stated, that US DD primary role is enemy DD prevention.

US CA from Pensacola onward firepower and AA is same or even worse (armor is teoreticly better.... well on baltimore in beta was) until T10.

Meanwhile other classes grow stronger and bad players are less often (except Tirpitz influx).

[Exocet6951]

 Most people just stop playing USN CAs past Cleveland, since they turn so entirely crap from that point onwards. 

 

But that's the problem, the Cleveland is so wildly inconsistent with other cruisers, with its insane RoF, damage output an ridiculously small citadels that make most shots overpenetrate, while being thick enough to stop HE shells from doing too much damage, and even making some 203mm AP round ricochet, that anything compared to it is trash.

 

USN CAs T 7-9 are decent ships, even if they can get tweaks to be a little better, like the Pepsicola being less detectable, and the N.Orleans having better RoF. A bit bland, but fine ships.

 

The Cleveland has nothing to do in tier6.

It should be put in tier7 (maybe even tier8 with some hefty range+shell flight time buffs) in its own CL branch.

[Jaeger_Bomb_Meister]

Why the hell is this garbage @ tier 8. I loved the Pensacola, doing great in it. Since the NO is a tier higher I expected it to be slightly better but its just THRASH. Everything, literally everything deals massive dmg with HE and AP against me and whenever I try to even 1v1 a tier 6 like the Cleveland his RoF just demolishes me. I deal a 15k volley with some citadels, but in the meantime he just out dps'es me like crazy. 0 AA either aswell as a shitty HP pool and armor... 

 

Why the hell is this shitty boat at tier 8? I'd rather have them swap it with the Pensacola with 0 changes than this as the tier 8 USN cruiser.. 

 

it's like that for every ship.....i find when unlocked all mods & ship becomes Premium it does get better....but every ship is like that at first. (i do understand that sinking feeling you get ,especially using your Free XP Reserves) other than tier 10 as Premium Ready.....Grind Grind Grind.....lol

[AgarwaenME]

 

But that's the problem, the Cleveland is so wildly inconsistent with other cruisers, with its insane RoF, damage output an ridiculously small citadels that make most shots overpenetrate, while being thick enough to stop HE shells from doing too much damage, and even making some 203mm AP round ricochet, that anything compared to it is trash.

 

USN CAs T 7-9 are decent ships, even if they can get tweaks to be a little better, like the Pepsicola being less detectable, and the N.Orleans having better RoF. A bit bland, but fine ships.

 

The Cleveland has nothing to do in tier6.

It should be put in tier7 (maybe even tier8 with some hefty range+shell flight time buffs) in its own CL branch.

 

Thing is, collected stats shows that while the Cleveland is good at that tier, it's not outrageously good. And on the other hand, the NO (and other t7-10 USN CAs) are underperforming compared to nearly everything. Ie, it's not merely the Cleve being good that makes them look bad, as they're simply bad period. The Omaha has a larger advantage compared to the Furu than the Cleve has to the Aoba, but those differences are 10-20%, not the 35-40% advantage that higher tier IJN CAs have.

 

And the reason is pretty obvious, there's a glut of easy to play BBs filling higher tier battles, and while USN CAs either loose dpm or stay more or less the same, opposing ships of pretty much any type including other USN CAs, gets better armour protection, thus their effective dpm drops like a rock and thus also their contributions to battles.

 

They had one advantage over IJN CAs, in their better AAA capabilities, but with the nerfs/adjustments to CVs that role is now defunct.

 

And sure, the Cleve could easily be put at a higher tier with its historical ROF, and that seems to be what it's heading to, which is why it's unlikely that WG will spend time overhauling it until they do.

 

As it is, merely having "high rof" isn't unbalanced by itself, your ROF needs to be compared to your other gun stats, and the Cleve is in the odd position (much like CVs and DDs) where you'll easily kill bad players that can't out-turn fire from long range, and do next to nothing to moderately competent players. Imo, the fix the Cleve needs isn't to severely reduce its damage output, but to make it somewhat less survivable. Then, like the Atlanta, it will get seriously punished for being badly played.

[Nefczi]

A week ago I unlocked New Orleans but decided to stop with progressing US cruisers line for a while and bough myself a new shiny Myoko. But my absence from US cruisers was short and yesterday I decided to give it a go. I like Pensacola despite its flaws and managed to make it work, did quite well with 48k average damage when I sold it. I thought that id I did ok in pensa than I will be fine in NO as well.

 

But so far, after 20 battles, im doing pretty horrible(35k avg dmg).  Granted, I didnt use any free XP and grinded from stock. So far I have the range module and just unlocked the hull after last battle. Oh the last battle...

 

I foudn myself in a situation when capping enemy zone an Amagi poped from behind island, 13km away. So i turned into him and slowed down showing my bow and angling ship nicely. There was friendly North Carolina and Myoko with me, both showing him broadside. But he decided to turn his guns on me since high tier US cruisers seems to be considered a xp/credits piniata. But since I was at almost full HP(29k) and angled perfectly I thought "come at me brah" and starting throwing shells at him with my nicely placed front guns.

 

I only managed to fire once cos he simply 1-shot me, and it wasnt a detonation, just heavy damage, so I guess he citadeled me 2 or 3 times. I didnt expect to bounce his shell of course but I didnt expect to be 1 shot either, not when angled perfectly.The moment this happened I had a

, with Switch saying "not like this, not like this" when Cypher pulled the plug.  That was hearbreaking.

 

But im not giving up yet, hopefully I will do better when fully upgraded, but so far NO doesnt feel like a worthy opponent to all the Mogamis, North Carolinas, Amagis or Triptitz, not even close. Not to mention all those tier 9-10 ships that are thrown my way quite often.

[LMN118]

I haven't played many battles on the New Orleans but those I did play in the ship performed well. Fire power wise it is not much different than the Peniscola, although it is sluggish in comparison. 

 

I will say the Cleveland should have been a tier 7 ship or have its survivability nerfed. I would also like to see the Atlanta receive a survivability buff because at least the way I play it, it gets shredded in most fights (although I can survive 1 on 1's easily enough). 

[Nephilim]

had quite a few games now where several enemy squadrons of planes have flown over me, like 6 bunched up, and I haven't shot down any. They hit their target and then fly back over me and I still don't hit any....I shoot down more planes in my colarado. I'd rather have a jap cruiser, at least you get torps....

 

How many times I get tier x games with no CV's and then get insta perforated by BB's.......

 

meh.

[Hanszeehock]

I only managed to fire once cos he simply 1-shot me, and it wasnt a detonation, just heavy damage, so I guess he citadeled me 2 or 3 times. I didnt expect to bounce his shell of course but I didnt expect to be 1 shot either, not when angled perfectly.The moment this happened I had a

, with Switch saying "not like this, not like this" when Cypher pulled the plug.  That was hearbreaking.

 

 

I feel your pain. Got one shotted in my NO by a Tirpitz yesterday. The credit loss just added insult to injury ! 

[El_Pollo_Locooo]

This piece of crapshould be tier 6.

[Nefczi]

I may have some good news. Just played NO on test server to see that AP shell buff in 5.1.

Only played 2 battles so far but I was doing 4-6k damage to to Amagi(he was angled...) at 15kms per salvo, and similiar damage to a freaking Montana at 12km... 85 hits with AP(no citadels) - 58k damage. Second Battle 112 AP hits 81k damage(2 citadel), murdered Hinderburg in 3 salvos, charging head on(he was showign me his broadside tho , also did 7k damage to North Carolina at 14km with one salvo(no citadels).

 

Maybe I was extremly lucky but this is looking very good so far. Those guns feel much more deadly now. I can hurt even high tier BBs with AP, instead of puny 2-3k HE damage per salvo with a chance of fire.

 

Edit: Another battle, 79 hits 56k AP damage. Was fighting NC and doing around 5k damage at 15-16km.

 

EDIT 2: So I jumped into my NO on live server just to see if my mind isnt playign some tricks on me, and I think it did, partially at least. I didnt realised how potent the AP ammo is on those 203mm US guns. I usually spammed HE on my New Orleans, switching to AP usually only when brawling against cruisers, at closers distances(below 12km). Im pretty sure now Idid it wrong. That resulted in puny 35k average damage after 30 battles. But this AP ammo seems to be doing quite nice damage even at longer distances to battleships.

 

That being said, there is still noticable diference if it comes to AP ammo effectivness between live and test server. This change to penetration angles in 5.1 seems to be a very nice buff to high tier US cruisers. Even Des Moines is doing a lot of AP damage on test server, not sure if its the same on live, all I seen from vids is HE spam

[mike_864]

Hi all

 

Been grinding the NO for what seems like ages to get to the Baltimore, i think i've played over 90 games in it and have only 9000xp left to go. I wasn't sure how i would like this ship after the Pensacola ( just 2 games ) but she's turning out to be a real beauty, a few days ago i decided that rather than start my day by playing all my ships in order ( from left to right on the carousel, BTW does anyone else do this? ) i'd just play my NO until i have the 165000xp needed for the Balti, this has led to 30ish fascinating games against all the high tier ships and guess what..! i had some of the best games i can remember, not very high scoring as a defensive/cautious style of play is needed in what is a fairly fragile ship but i survived most of the matches and even broke my record for the amount of planes shot down ( 29 ) Have even been in the top 3 in my team in the results a few times! good guns, low detectability, and decent AA. Overall a nice ship once you get used to her.

I think i'll even keep her when i get the Baltimore!

 

Mike

[Panocek]

Hi all

 

Been grinding the NO for what seems like ages to get to the Baltimore, i think i've played over 90 games in it and have only 9000xp left to go. I wasn't sure how i would like this ship after the Pensacola ( just 2 games ) but she's turning out to be a real beauty, a few days ago i decided that rather than start my day by playing all my ships in order ( from left to right on the carousel, BTW does anyone else do this? ) i'd just play my NO until i have the 165000xp needed for the Balti, this has led to 30ish fascinating games against all the high tier ships and guess what..! i had some of the best games i can remember, not very high scoring as a defensive/cautious style of play is needed in what is a fairly fragile ship but i survived most of the matches and even broke my record for the amount of planes shot down ( 29 ) Have even been in the top 3 in my team in the results a few times! good guns, low detectability, and decent AA. Overall a nice ship once you get used to her.

I think i'll even keep her when i get the Baltimore!

 

Mike

 

Do yourself a favor and don't buy Baltimore. Just not worth it.

[mike_864]

 

Do yourself a favor and don't buy Baltimore. Just not worth it.

 

Really..!  Hmmmm... i thought Balti was a better armoured ship, does it get the battleship type repair function? i know guns are about the same as NO but cant see upgrades on tech tree,

Your thoughts appreciated

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Baltimore is New Orleans with repair ability. However, it meets Iowa, Montana,Yamato and Zao/Des Moines much more often. And it doesn't stand a chance against any one of those. Basically, you will never win a duel with anything on your tier unless you have huge advantage. 

My advice - if you really want Des and wish to commit - you need to invest some gold and credits to make Baltimore grind more enjoyable:

Make ninja camo build captain for Des. Situational Awarness, Camo perk from tier V, camo module and "real" camo for credits. Take module for extended range - really vital upgrade. This will help you with dealing damage, which will accelerate your grind. Keep in mind you can't duel with anything on equal terms. If you have Iowa closing in, just set her on fire and find another targets, if there is none, continue fighting, but you won't win it. Unlock range upgrade ASAP.

 

And most of all, try to have fun with it, I failed at that part though.

[Panocek]

 

Really..!  Hmmmm... i thought Balti was a better armoured ship, does it get the battleship type repair function? i know guns are about the same as NO but cant see upgrades on tech tree,

Your thoughts appreciated

 

Armor is indeed better, to the point you can reasonably often glance of other cruiser shells. And you have two charges of duct tape to fix your ship a bit. You get all six upgrade slots, so you can mount +16% main battery range (up to 18.3km) or +20% AA dps upgrades for mere 3mil.

 

On other side of the coin, you have expensive repairs post battle (150k for sinking), your armor doesn't work against battleships, and as those got their AP restored, you will get shrekt a lot more. AA from upgraded hull is still not enough to negate focused torpedo/bombing run, maybe if you would have all AA upgrades possible... maybe. Ship itself is slower and clumsier than New Orlean, "upgraded" guns give you whole 1s faster reload than NO and AP rounds, which may hit bit harder, but also have Cleveland kind of velocity, so it takes almost 14s to reach max range. Long enough even for BBs to evade. And speaking of modules, Baltimore with new hull, guns and gun controls costs more than tier 10 ship to buy (13.6mil for ship, 3mil for hull, 2mil for GFC and 2.4mil for guns = 21mil compared to 19.8mil for DM)

 

Basically Balti is ship that can't impact battle in any way meaningful, struggles to deal damage in long range standoffs and is expensive as fock to restore her from "utter crap" to "still crap" condition. At least I can't do much with it, most success with it I had when going full gunboat against enemy cruisers, when BBs were sort of harmless with their 5.1 AP.

[egwoidios]

yes you are right this ship is just useless... can anyone tell me why i didn't get the 3 million of lvl 11profile yes?? is this a bug or it is bugged oon me only?

 

[Nefczi]

yes you are right this ship is just useless... can anyone tell me why i didn't get the 3 million of lvl 11profile yes?? is this a bug or it is bugged oon me only?

 

 

If you were a lvl 9 before patch 5.1, you already got the 3 milion reward before. A lvl 11(with 3 mil reward) was simply moved from 9 to 11 in 5.1 as they added 2 more low levels.