Stop nerfing DD's

[Frank_F_B]

Yep, you read it well, even after the coming patch DD's still will be nerfed because of buff hydroacoustic search.

 

DD's are the most difficult class to play and still being nerfed all the time.

 

1. Situational awareness was moved in the captain skill tree to 1, that means that everybody with that 1 skill knows when it is spotted, not acting on that information... well....
2. Acquisition range torpedo's 20% view rage buff. skill 3 for captains, so higher tier captains will take that one.
3. There are so many planes flying around that ambushing an enemy ship is almost impossible
4. The moment a shell explodes on the other side of the map the DD's engine will cut out.
5. Hydroacoustic search, don't have to explain that one and next patch being buffed.
6. Crappy smokescreens, even after the buff (compared to cbt)
7. Nerf Minekze in spotting distance? Why? The Minekaze already is being punished by taking away it's sniper torps and being punished with spotting distance (double punishment)
8. Mutsuki nerf in spotting distance? Can't see any reason why. At tier 6 with more planes flying around, the 5,9 km is essential.

 

It is no wonder DD's hardly exist in higher tier games, there is no reason to play them, and now in lower tiers they will see the same fate. Ok a bit over dramatic, but you get my drift. Stop nerfing the DD's and make them playable again. Thank you for your time.

 

[ViolatorxL]

Because Minekaze's and Mutsuki's were freaking cloaking Romulans. Could stay hidden IN the capping area while torping cruisers looking for them. A small nerf on spotting range is no problem. I have a Hatsuharu now and it's far easier to spot then those little opboats. Okay, Mutsuki's gun could actually use a buff though, on turning rate.

[Userext]

What do you mean stop nerfing DDs? They created Destroyer line only to nerf it. So that the other ships wouldnt receive nerf. Destroyers are like the whipping boy of WoWs.

 

A message from anonymous battleship:

"When daddy WG gets mad at us BBs, CVs, CAs he beats up the DDs so that he wouldnt hurt us but he has to get his anger out of someone"

[Userext]

What do you mean stop nerfing DDs? They created Destroyer line only to nerf it. So that the other ships wouldnt receive nerf. Destroyers are like the whipping boy of WoWs.

 

A message from anonymous battleship:

"When daddy WG gets mad at us BBs, CVs, CAs he beats up the DDs so that he wouldnt hurt us but he has to get his anger out of someone"

[Tiguurrr]

Because Minekaze's and Mutsuki's were freaking cloaking Romulans. Could stay hidden IN the capping area while torping cruisers looking for them. A small nerf on spotting range is no problem. I have a Hatsuharu now and it's far easier to spot then those little opboats. Okay, Mutsuki's gun could actually use a buff though, on turning rate.

 

I second this and thumbed it up

Thank Fuchs for Torpedo Acquisition range! I was dodging torpedo's left and right with my hippo on ice.

Sweet merciless mother the amount of torpedo's they launched at me in one game. Even got so cocky so I said "You're gonna have to try harder if you want to hit me!"

 

And well, they tried harder, and hit me with like 3

 

But I am not sure if they need to be nerfed for that, but it's definitely something off with a ship popping into thin air right in front of you

 

 

 

 

PS. I like Romulans.

 

 

 

[Tiguurrr]

Because Minekaze's and Mutsuki's were freaking cloaking Romulans. Could stay hidden IN the capping area while torping cruisers looking for them. A small nerf on spotting range is no problem. I have a Hatsuharu now and it's far easier to spot then those little opboats. Okay, Mutsuki's gun could actually use a buff though, on turning rate.

 

I second this and thumbed it up

Thank Fuchs for Torpedo Acquisition range! I was dodging torpedo's left and right with my hippo on ice.

Sweet merciless mother the amount of torpedo's they launched at me in one game. Even got so cocky so I said "You're gonna have to try harder if you want to hit me!"

 

And well, they tried harder, and hit me with like 3

 

But I am not sure if they need to be nerfed for that, but it's definitely something off with a ship popping into thin air right in front of you

 

 

 

 

PS. I like Romulans.

 

 

 

[Tiguurrr]

Because Minekaze's and Mutsuki's were freaking cloaking Romulans. Could stay hidden IN the capping area while torping cruisers looking for them. A small nerf on spotting range is no problem. I have a Hatsuharu now and it's far easier to spot then those little opboats. Okay, Mutsuki's gun could actually use a buff though, on turning rate.

 

I second this and thumbed it up

Thank Fuchs for Torpedo Acquisition range! I was dodging torpedo's left and right with my hippo on ice.

Sweet merciless mother the amount of torpedo's they launched at me in one game. Even got so cocky so I said "You're gonna have to try harder if you want to hit me!"

 

And well, they tried harder, and hit me with like 3

 

But I am not sure if they need to be nerfed for that, but it's definitely something off with a ship popping into thin air right in front of you

 

 

 

 

PS. I like Romulans.

 

 

 

[Tiguurrr]

Accidental multi-post due to posting at the same time the maintenance occurred apparently.

Please delete this post and the previous two.

[Barkyro]

Well the truth is split. But I do agree the T5-6 IJN DD's were a pain and a joy to play and sincerely I am glad I passed them before the nerf train came.

But seriously DD's need something more in order to be enjoyable to play at least a real gun boost to IJN DD's + range if you took away our spotting advantage.

[Sub_Eleven]

The only people left playing destroyers are masochists or seal clubbing the low tiers. Got bored of that after a couple hundred games. It will just take a couple more "balance patches" to wipe out the last persistent folks still playing them.

[typhaon]

Yep, you read it well, even after the coming patch DD's still will be nerfed because of buff hydroacoustic search.

 

DD's are the most difficult class to play and still being nerfed all the time.

 

1. Situational awareness was moved in the captain skill tree to 1, that means that everybody with that 1 skill knows when it is spotted, not acting on that information... well....
2. Acquisition range torpedo's 20% view rage buff. skill 3 for captains, so higher tier captains will take that one.
3. There are so many planes flying around that ambushing an enemy ship is almost impossible
4. The moment a shell explodes on the other side of the map the DD's engine will cut out.
5. Hydroacoustic search, don't have to explain that one and next patch being buffed.
6. Crappy smokescreens, even after the buff (compared to cbt)
7. Nerf Minekze in spotting distance? Why? The Minekaze already is being punished by taking away it's sniper torps and being punished with spotting distance (double punishment)
8. Mutsuki nerf in spotting distance? Can't see any reason why. At tier 6 with more planes flying around, the 5,9 km is essential.

 

It is no wonder DD's hardly exist in higher tier games, there is no reason to play them, and now in lower tiers they will see the same fate. Ok a bit over dramatic, but you get my drift. Stop nerfing the DD's and make them playable again. Thank you for your time.

 

 

1. DDs are the ones, that benefit most from that skill, because it's essential for them to remain hidden and to know when they cover is busted. Of course it's also useful for other ships, but it still doesn't tell you who spotted you. In most cruisers and BBs you are spotted most of the time anyway, so you only use the skill at the start of a battle.

2. Yeah, but that will most likely apply to higher tier captains, which means that that's on those tiers where torps can come in higher numbers and larger spreads.

3. Well CVs are a totally different topic... there's still much to do with them.

4. Well, you got no armor at all, so it is to be expected, especially when you are hit with large shells. But at least at range it's not that easy to score a clean hit as a BB.

5. Yeah, it's a pretty powerful skill, but so is defensive AA fire... and since there are much more planes in the air than DDs around, especially on higher tiers, most cruisers will take the AA buff. And you can only detect one torp attack early... the next one will come during the cooldown.

6. Yeah, it's hard to find the balance with smoke screens... personally I'd make them last a little shorter but being deployed a little longer for compensation. The problem is, that you cannot cover a sufficient large area to cover your attack. Most DDs use it while escaping or attacking and both usually don't need as much time as the smoke lasts... but they would benefit from a larger area that could be covered.

7. The Minekaze was simply OP going around like a ghost shooting torps from all angles... it's one of the reasons, why there are so many complaints about invisible DDs. And even worse, it made the Mutsuki look like a step down on the next tier.

8. Same here... still you can come close enough to launch torps without being detected.

 

Alltogether tables turn on higher tiers making DDs really difficult to play. So many (also experienced) players stay at the lower tiers which means that they are seal clubbing newbies... and since WG buffs or nerfs depending on the overall battle results of a certain ship type, they balance it according to the "wrong stats".

 

[Nagine]

Because Minekaze's and Mutsuki's were freaking cloaking Romulans. Could stay hidden IN the capping area while torping cruisers looking for them. A small nerf on spotting range is no problem. I have a Hatsuharu now and it's far easier to spot then those little opboats. Okay, Mutsuki's gun could actually use a buff though, on turning rate.

 

Minekaze at least has fast loading torps, so occasionally detecting it is not a big deal (can quickly relaunch another salvo). Mutsuki's camo is the only real weapon it has, so nerfing it is beyond strange.

[Nagine]

7. The Minekaze was simply OP going around like a ghost shooting torps from all angles... it's one of the reasons, why there are so many complaints about invisible DDs. And even worse, it made the Mutsuki look like a step down on the next tier.

8. Same here... still you can come close enough to launch torps without being detected.

 

 

Both you and Berk have good points, but the problem is people will continue to whine  about "Invisible" DDs even if their spotting range will become 10 km. However each nerf of the spotting range limits DDs' effectiveness, which is already not too great compared to other ships. Its no biggie for an OP ship such as Minekaze, but it is noticeable hit on borderline Mutsuki. Don't forget enemy ships are also moving and changing directions so it's not so easy to carefully predict the distance to him at the specific moment. Thus some spotting range buffer is needed. And don't get me started about the scout planes, which don't have any distance hint at all...

[Tugnut]

As far as i can tell the patch will buff them... US with more smoke time some with rof upgrade, IJN with turret turn time and ... Mini getting a "nerf" shhh dont tell WG but its a buff cus the first set of torps are the better ones to use the turret turn time buff is very welcome, and the little loss in camo wont hurt the guys that know how to use it.

 

alls good

[Vaderan]

Yep, you read it well, even after the coming patch DD's still will be nerfed because of buff hydroacoustic search.

 

DD's are the most difficult class to play and still being nerfed all the time.

 

1. Situational awareness was moved in the captain skill tree to 1, that means that everybody with that 1 skill knows when it is spotted, not acting on that information... well.... For some funny reason, this skill was considered a buff for DDs when it was moved down to tier 1, since any newbie DD captain was informed right away when he got spotted. For all other classes, there are more valuable skills to choose before. You gotta have a good paranoia from DDs if you go for that one at the beginning. It´s more a buff for the DD class than for any other.
2. Acquisition range torpedo's 20% view rage buff. skill 3 for captains, so higher tier captains will take that one. Again: there are more valuable skills to choose before. Considering the current accquisition mechanics for torpedos, those 20% are almost neglectible low. IF that skill is chosen, i doubt it will make a great difference. Aware players will have taken the presence of DDs into account long before, and ignorant players will get hit by torpedoes anyway.
3. There are so many planes flying around that ambushing an enemy ship is almost impossible You have to suffer from a lack of map awarness, if you allow an enemy carrier to detect your DD. Every time it happens to me, except for those games where the enemy CV has no CV to counter and spare fighter wings to scout for DDs, it was my fault when i got spotted. Planes are on the map long before they are in spotting distance. If you steer right into them, it´s not the games fault.
4. The moment a shell explodes on the other side of the map the DD's engine will cut out. Now it starts getting ridiculous. Yes, module damage happens very often, and it is really annoying to get your engine taken out again right after you repaired it. However, as a DD player, you should know about that risk. Thats the tradeoff for being small, agile, fast, stealthy and bearing oneshot capability.
5. Hydroacoustic search, don't have to explain that one and next patch being buffed. Didn´t even recognize that buff. Didn´t test it on the testbed. Starting from tier 6, there is no recommendation to use this consumable, since AAA barrage is of more use. If they don´t buff the range of that consumable to 5+ km, there is basically no problem, since most DDs will be revealed long before that consumable is triggered. Only real impact: detecting DDs in close range right behind an island. The, on the other hand, you have to ask the question: how often does it happen that a DD ambushes his hardcounter class? And how smart is that? If BBs would receive that consumable, it might be a more severe impact, but CA...please, they counter DDs.
6. Crappy smokescreens, even after the buff (compared to cbt) yes, but thats where the true problem comes from. During CBT, DDs were something between powerfull and ridiculously OP. There was nothing they had to fear, because they were able to yolo anything and disappear before punishment could be delivered. It had to be balanced out.
7. Nerf Minekze in spotting distance? Why? The Minekaze already is being punished by taking away it's sniper torps and being punished with spotting distance (double punishment) And here you start to disqualify yourself. Slow 10km range "sniper" torpedos? Any real Minekaze player with skill stays with the stock torpedoes. They are faster, and still can be fired from stealth mode position. It´s only a nerf for those who failed to succed in DDs anyway. The 300metres the Minekaze gets spotted earlier is a minor impact, however, to be honest, that little bugger was a little to powerfull anyway. Of course, those who depend on OP ships to achieve any minor success are now unhappy. Skilled Minikaze players will adapt quickly to the change.
8. Mutsuki nerf in spotting distance? Can't see any reason why. At tier 6 with more planes flying around, the 5,9 km is essential. No experience with that one, cannot comment that.

 

It is no wonder DD's hardly exist in higher tier games, there is no reason to play them, and now in lower tiers they will see the same fate. Ok a bit over dramatic, but you get my drift. Stop nerfing the DD's and make them playable again. Thank you for your time. Maybe we are playing two different games. Although i play cruisers more often, i just discovered the fun with DDs. Gremjaschtschi, Minekaze, Sims, all very handy, awesome little ships. Any predecessor of the Minekaze was fun aswell. The issue: DD players were spoiled from CBT and the Minekaze performance, and since the Minekaze is considered the peak of the IJN DD line, anything after it seems worse. However, from testbed experience, i can tell you, that high tier battles are just no fun to play, if 2+ high end DDs are on each team. It´s torpedoes, torpedoes, torpedoes... Yeah, they got their reload, but up to 20 kilometres range... . I don´t say "nerf it", but it has a major impact on game experience.

 

 

I am curious to see, what impact the changes of 4.1 will have. The proclaimed "meeeh, DDs are unplayable, nerfed to oblivion" i don´t see. However, IF i am wrong, WG will recognize it, and tinker around again.

 

[N00b32]

I don't know when it comes to dds. I would be interested in real data concerning the performance. Because I suspect, DDs don't perform under a standard distribution when it comes to xp or winrate. There are some real good DD players and DDs need a nerf when it comes to those in general and then there are some real suicide clowns. 

 

1. Situational awareness was moved in the captain skill tree to 1, that means that everybody with that 1 skill knows when it is spotted, not acting on that information... well....
2. Acquisition range torpedo's 20% view rage buff. skill 3 for captains, so higher tier captains will take that one.
3. There are so many planes flying around that ambushing an enemy ship is almost impossible
4. The moment a shell explodes on the other side of the map the DD's engine will cut out.
5. Hydroacoustic search, don't have to explain that one and next patch being buffed.
6. Crappy smokescreens, even after the buff (compared to cbt)
7. Nerf Minekze in spotting distance? Why? The Minekaze already is being punished by taking away it's sniper torps and being punished with spotting distance (double punishment)
8. Mutsuki nerf in spotting distance? Can't see any reason why. At tier 6 with more planes flying around, the 5,9 km is essential.

 

1. This is good and bad at the same time. It allows DDs to react faster if they get spotted, but it also makes a fight against a carrier to a real act. 

2. I don't think this is a problem.

3. Yes, that is the real problem in high levels. Also the rng of normal bombers is a pain in the [edited]. There a games where they hit nothing and then there are games where 1 squadrons detonates your ammo in the first three minutes and game over. Also Minekaze compared to later destroyers is better against planes, because it can reacts better and is faster when it comes to dodging. 

4. There is a skill for it. 

5. That's the risk of a dd, sadly the gain is not always good when it comes to torpedos.

6. I would not rely on smoke screens, they are a good panic button, because you can turn away while laying smoke and then end up behind your own smoke screen. 

7. No, that one is ok, the Mutsuki nerf is actually strange.

8. see 7. Fully agree. 

 

[Barkyro]

I also used the Minekaze with the first set of torpedoes and I dont see that removing the second set would be a problem but putting that aside the gun boosts need to be significant at least for the Mutsuki since it has well..... 2 x  1 x 120mm turrets ROFL XD. And no offense but the range at which you would get spotted was the only thing it had going for it and well maibe a decent AA if you could use it.

[GunnyL]

I'm taking a break from DD's , I just got to T8 on IJN and you get spotted so easily, mostly from planes, both CV and any ship that has to option to launch them.

 

DD's are already from the pubic stats provide the lowest credit and XP earners. Add the extra long re-loading times and really what point is there in playing.

[Barkyro]

Personally I (still)enjoy he challenge of playing DD's but  only got to T7 until now. Hope it's not as bad as you say tho.

[blinkster]

I feel that when the nerf bat comes after every freakin big patch,the only ships they see are the DD and just to be sure they check the forum and see 9348593485934 topics made by the baBBies saying TORPEDOS OP THEY HIT ME AND I DIE and they are like yes we must nerf them again just to be sure,no need to check the statistics.

 

[Vanhal]

1. Situational awareness was moved in the captain skill tree to 1, that means that everybody with that 1 skill knows when it is spotted, not acting on that information... well....
2. Acquisition range torpedo's 20% view rage buff. skill 3 for captains, so higher tier captains will take that one.
3. There are so many planes flying around that ambushing an enemy ship is almost impossible
4. The moment a shell explodes on the other side of the map the DD's engine will cut out.
5. Hydroacoustic search, don't have to explain that one and next patch being buffed.
6. Crappy smokescreens, even after the buff (compared to cbt)
7. Nerf Minekze in spotting distance? Why? The Minekaze already is being punished by taking away it's sniper torps and being punished with spotting distance (double punishment)
8. Mutsuki nerf in spotting distance? Can't see any reason why. At tier 6 with more planes flying around, the 5,9 km is essential.

 

1. Despite being "only" 1st tier skill, even that measly 1 point could be used better, there is no real reason to use it on a ship that is not DD. So it was actually buff to destroyers, and was widely percieved as such when it was implemented.

2. That is also indirect buff to DD's. Making this skill on the same tier as repair cooldown buff and superintendent almost guarantee no one worth his ship's wheel will take it.

3. CV nerf requests are other way. Although you are fully right here.

4. Could be toned down, true.

5. Useless skill tbh. It don't give much in case of torps and DD itself is seen way earlier than it could be detected with it. Even in smoke, DD usually runs away, so no cruiser will get into the range. Besides, sailing into enemy smoke is death wish. That's on lower tiers. On 6+ there is AA panic button, which is so vastly superior that it is no-brainer.

6. First, DD smoke never served as the cover for attack, they were always used (even ingame) as cover for retreat. It still works. And the true reason it was nerfed was not the destroyers themselves, but often large parts of battlefield were choked in smoke, preventing all action and that, frankly speaking, sucked hard and caused much boredom.

7. Minekaze is OP, shortest spotting distance, fast torpedo reload, incredibly fast ship. Even nimble cruisers were obliterated in duels. Not much will change after that nerf though, maybe some less skilled players will have the more chance for mistake.

8. Would be kinda weird if Mutsuki have better camo than Minekaze, when next is the direct step down to Hatsuharu. And why is the 5,9 essential because of planes? Spotting range for planes is different. And why is exactly 5,9 essential? Why not 1,2 for example?

[byronicasian]

How is a 300m nerf to the vis-range the end of the world? I never went that close to my vis range to launch my torps in the Minekaze in CBT. 

[Nagine]

How is a 300m nerf to the vis-range the end of the world? I never went that close to my vis range to launch my torps in the Minekaze in CBT. 

 

6.2 km spotting range and 7 km torps (6 km if you are starting to grind Mutsuki) does not give much space for error, so every meter counts. The same is for capping duties.

[Blue_Bug]

 

DD's are already from the pubic stats provide the lowest credit and XP earners. Add the extra long re-loading times and really what point is there in playing.

 

This ^^^^.

 

The DD should be Big risk, but also Big reward when things goes well. It doesn't bother me much that DD's are hard to play. What bothers me a lot is that (as an average player) the reward is not in relation to the risks.

 

Now I'm up to tier 6 US DD, I already loose credits on playing the US DD. As an US DD you need the premium consumable for repair and smoke. So you spend 45.000 credits every game (even when you didn't had a chance on using them).  With a good game I earn around 150.000 credits. Cost of repairs and amo about 40.000 credits. So in a good game I earn 65.000 credits. This has to compensate the bad games too.

 

So it is imposible to save for upgrades and also save 5.5 mln credits for the next (crapy) US DD.  

 

I rarely play IJN DD's so I can't comment on those DD's. But the earnings of the US DD as from tier 6 is awfull. I hope that with the Benson things will become better, but I think that one is also bad in its earnings an xp.

 

 

[Cosmonautilus]

This is coming with 0.4.1

 

• For all destroyers, resistance to damage was decreased to match the respective hull values
• For all destroyers, added a fourth point where the fire may potentially be started
• The ‘value’ of a hit into the middle part of a destroyer was reduced to match the ‘value’ of hits into the bow or stern of these ships. Now, ‘alpha strike’ damage to the bow, stern, superstructures and the central part of the ship will not differ
• Extended the action time of the Hydroacoustic Search consumable from 40 to 90 seconds

• For U.S. Navy destroyers, extended the action time of Smoke Charges. The previous time for setting a smokescreen (20 seconds) was increased to 22 – 30 seconds depending on the tier of a destroyer
• The duration of a smokescreen was increased as well: it used to be within the range of 65 to 97 seconds depending on the tier of a ship. Now it will be within the range of 106 to 130 seconds
• For the destroyers Farragut and Benson, the ‘AA defense-oriented’ hulls will become optional for research
• The top (AA-defense-oriented) hulls of US Navy destroyers will receive the Defensive Fire consumable.
• For the destroyer Sampson, increased the traverse speed of the main battery guns from 10 to 11.5 degrees per second.
• For the destroyer Wickes, increased the traverse speed of the main battery guns from 10 to 11.5 degrees per second.
• For the destroyer Wickes, converted the Bliss-Leavitt Mark 9 torpedoes into a researchable module.
• For the destroyer Nicholas, added the Defensive Fire consumable to Hull B instead of the Engine Boost consumable.
• For the destroyer Farragut, Hull C became optional for research. On this hull, the Engine Boost consumable was replaced with the Defensive Fire consumable.
• For the destroyer Mahan, added the Defensive Fire consumable to Hull B instead of the Engine Boost consumable.
• For the destroyer Benson, Hull C became optional for research. On this hull, the Engine Boost consumable was replaced with the Defensive Fire consumable.
• For the destroyer Gearing, the Defensive Fire consumable became available in addition to the Engine Boost consumable.
• For the destroyer Sims, separated the engagement areas of the Browning M2 and Oerlikon AA machine guns. The total engagement power has not changed: the firing range of the Oerlikon machine guns remains standard (2.1 km instead of 1.2 km earlier) while the firing range of the Browning M2 machine guns is reduced from 1.2 km to 0.9 km as compared with the previous range
• For the destroyer Sims, added an option to mount torpedoes
• For the destroyer Sims, the Defensive Fire consumable became available in addition to the Engine Boost consumable.
• Increased the rate of fire and the main battery traverse speed of the US Navy destroyers Sampson and Wickes
• Increased the traverse speed of the 120mm/45 guns from 4 degrees per second to 6 degrees per second. The change affected the destroyers Wakatake, Minekaze and Mutsuki
• Increased the traverse speed of the 127mm/50 Type C guns from 5 degrees per second to 6 degrees per second. The change affected the destroyers Fubuki and Kagero
• Increased the range of the 450 Type42 mod. 1 torpedoes from 4.5 km to 5 km. The changes affected the destroyers Tachibana and Umikaze
• For the destroyers Minekaze and Mutsuki, increased detectability distance from 5.94 km to 6.2 km
• For the destroyer Minekaze, excluded the Type89 torpedoes from researchable modules.
• Excluded the 533 mm Type 89 torpedo from researchable modules.
• Decreased the aiming angles of Minekaze’s torpedo tubes.
• Increased the turret traverse speed of certain Japanese destroyers

 

 

The matchmaker now distributes destroyers more evenly between opposite teams, when a battle is created.