RN BBs

[boomboom517]

here's is how id do it red letters are premiums the sub branch has more firepower but less reliability (in game lower hp and module heath) both N3 and G3 will have assume to have been upgraded with dual purpose secondaries (though G3 retains the original configuration at stock) as well as the more low caliber AA guns as they would no doubt have been for game balance purpose the Trafalgar was the only Pre Dreadnought I could find that might work at tier 1 but I think for new players the Black Swan is better but hey who doesn't want a tier 1 battleship? Anyone wondering why Dreadnoughts a premium the answer is the secondaries.

 

link to mini tree: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9mTXIio06QQeVc2ejZyOHZUbzQ/view?usp=sharing

[RamirezKurita]

Like most people, I'd be expecting the RN to have a battleship line and a battlecruiser line, as they are probably the only nation that actually had enough battlecruisers across enough varying levels of power to actually fit out such a tree.

 

For battleships, the only real answer for T3 would be Dreadnought, as she is about the right age and displacement to fit in here as well as the current T3 battleships were each nation's first dreadnought battleships. T4 and T5 have a large variety of options, there's about half a dozen different potential classes for each one. T6 should be the QE-class, as we already have Warspite as a T6. The only potential T7s are the Nelson-class, as they were built at a similar time and with a similar displacement to the Colorado-class and Nagato-class. T8 has KGV, as it is very much equivalent to the North Carolina-class, but with weaker guns but significantly better armour and slightly improved speed. T9 and T10 should probably be filled out with the Lion-class designs, as the design for the Lion-class basically evolved from an up-gunned KGV into effectively a British Iowa-class (which would make a fine T9) before eventually becoming a 60,000+ ton armoured leviathan with autoloading 16-inch guns (obviously T10 material) before the design was eventually scrapped several years after WWII.

[Porpoisee]

I really wish Prince of Wales will become a tier VIII premium for the British.

I can also see a battlecruiser line with Hood on the tier VII and fast BB like Vanguard on VIII merging into the Lion with the other line consisting from Nelson on VII and KGV on VIII.  on IX.  Vanguard has similar characteristics as Bismarck, so she should be tier VIII. Lion fits perfectly into the tier IX  and probably there will be something like Superlion on tier X with 9-12 406mm guns and sturdy armor.

[Eruantien_Aduialdraug]

Like most people, I'd be expecting the RN to have a battleship line and a battlecruiser line, as they are probably the only nation that actually had enough battlecruisers across enough varying levels of power to actually fit out such a tree.

 

For battleships, the only real answer for T3 would be Dreadnought, as she is about the right age and displacement to fit in here as well as the current T3 battleships were each nation's first dreadnought battleships. T4 and T5 have a large variety of options, there's about half a dozen different potential classes for each one. T6 should be the QE-class, as we already have Warspite as a T6. The only potential T7s are the Nelson-class, as they were built at a similar time and with a similar displacement to the Colorado-class and Nagato-class. T8 has KGV, as it is very much equivalent to the North Carolina-class, but with weaker guns but significantly better armour and slightly improved speed. T9 and T10 should probably be filled out with the Lion-class designs, as the design for the Lion-class basically evolved from an up-gunned KGV into effectively a British Iowa-class (which would make a fine T9) before eventually becoming a 60,000+ ton armoured leviathan with autoloading 16-inch guns (obviously T10 material) before the design was eventually scrapped several years after WWII.

 

Belleropheron would also fit at tier 3, either by itself, or as a hull upgrade for Dreadnought; she's very similar, but rather than the 27 three inch guns it's 16 four inch guns (which, obviously, are a bit punchier). Regarding four and five, Orion at tier 4? It's the first super-dreadnought, and can get all ten 343 mm guns on target for the broadside, and at 21 knots we're between the Myogi and Wyoming in terms of speed (AA's a little underwhelming though, four 3 pounders and 5 twin pom-poms should give an AA dps of 39, compared to the Wyoming's 78 and the Myogi's 114). Tier 5 is probably best suited to the Iron Duke; basically a repeat of the preceeding KGV (not to be confused with the 14 inch KGV that came about later), they had the same 343mm guns as the Orions, but fired a heavier shell (more AP damage?) and had more armour than the KGVs. And they're the first RN battleship to have 152 mm secondaries. Again though, they have very poor AA (the AA being intended to defend against German airships (the Iron Dukes fell victim to the Washington Naval treaty before the world's navies really began improving ship AA capabilities).

 

The Revenge class is troublesome, inferior to the Queen Elizabeth class, but far too powerful to be at tier 5. And Warspite would indicate that the Queen Elizabeth class is going to be tier 6. Which as you say, probably gives us Nelson at tier 7. KGV at tier 8 has one other advantage, if WG don't nerf the AA suite like they did the Kongou's, and they make a nod towards the improved pom-pom directors that the KGV had (Warspite's were done by eye, KGV's were radar guided; Warspite's pom-poms make 3.5 dps per barrel and the US Sofors is 4.6m, so perhaps KGV should get 4 dps per barrel with the oct mounts [the ones that had the new directors]), the AA dps should be 530. Lion works as a tier 9. N3 at tier 9? It's a bit of a change from the last two though, but it should be able to stand up to the Yamato and Montana in a gunnery duel.

 

Tier 10 is why Warspite being tier 6 bugs me slightly. Ok, that might seem a bit a strange leap. If Warspite had been made tier 7 (better turret traverse, light increase in range, +1 km range on the secondaries to maintain the range advantage, maybe buff the rof on the 6" guns... Just little bits here and there to bring it in line. Oh, and HP of course...), then Revenge slots in at tier 6, and we can spit at tier 8; having KGV and Nelson. Nelson's not that much slower than the North Carolina, has surprisingly impressive armour (the deck is 108 to 159 mm thick, which makes it thicker than any tier 8 currently in game, and the hull is superior to the N.Carolina and the Amagi, with only the more lightly armed Tirpitz having more armour there). Tier 9 we'd see the Lion coming from KGV, and the L2 coming from the Nelson. (L2 is even more heavily armoured than the Nelson, with up to 203 mm of deck armour, eight 457 mm guns in four twin turrets, 16 152 mm guns in 8 turrets, 10 triple oerlikons (like some Crusader AA tanks had), 4 ten barreled pom-poms, and six 102 mm HA guns. Top speed would have been 25 knots, which is two knots faster than the Nelson, and two knots slower than the Iowa). N3 would be tier 10 following on from the L2 (very similar armour to the L2, but three triple 457 mm guns, same secondary and AA armaments but an extra four triple Oerlikons), and as I said earlier, should be able to match the US and IJN BBs in gunnery duels. The other tier 10 option is Vanguard...

 

Vanguard's a funny option. The belt is thinner that the Montana's midships, but thicker at the fore and aft, Vanguard's deck is thicker than Montana's and thicker at it's thinnest than Yamato's (lower maximum thickess though). The secondary battery is the same 133 mm guns as the KGV and Lion (and the Dido class cruiser for that matter), but four twin turrets on each flank. Historically they made 18 r/m, and if they make 2100 HE damage (likely given what comparable size guns do), that's 302.4k potential dpm. If you ignore Yamato's 155 mm AP battery (the 155s aren't that reliable against tier 10 cruisers from what I've seen, and I can't see them being that good against other TX BBs), then Vanguard would have the highest secondary dpm at tier 10 (and if Warspite is an indication, we should have a range advantage on the secondaries). Vanguard's AA dps would be about 450-460, which just pips the Yamato, but falls clearly short of the Montana. Vanguard would be the fastest BB since, well since the Bismark/Tirpitz actually, but other than that, since the Kongou. Which leaves us talking about the guns; the 381 mm guns. Ok. So they're tiny for tier 10. Obviously you're not going to be winning AP fights against the Yamato, but with 3 r/m it makes the same combined rate of fire as the Montana. That rate of fire would actually make it pretty good as a cruiser hunter; think about it, 30 knots is a pretty good speed and lets you keep pace with your own cruisers more easily, the AA isn't fantastic but would  complement a few cruisers nicely, the guns are definitely big enough to penetrate and citadel cruisers, and that extra round per minute should make it easier to deal with their dodging. The secondaries should be able to provide a certain level of assistance in that role... And you'd still be quite good at bugging the Yamato with HE fire.

[RamirezKurita]

 

Belleropheron would also fit at tier 3, either by itself, or as a hull upgrade for Dreadnought; she's very similar, but rather than the 27 three inch guns it's 16 four inch guns (which, obviously, are a bit punchier). Regarding four and five, Orion at tier 4? It's the first super-dreadnought, and can get all ten 343 mm guns on target for the broadside, and at 21 knots we're between the Myogi and Wyoming in terms of speed (AA's a little underwhelming though, four 3 pounders and 5 twin pom-poms should give an AA dps of 39, compared to the Wyoming's 78 and the Myogi's 114). Tier 5 is probably best suited to the Iron Duke; basically a repeat of the preceeding KGV (not to be confused with the 14 inch KGV that came about later), they had the same 343mm guns as the Orions, but fired a heavier shell (more AP damage?) and had more armour than the KGVs. And they're the first RN battleship to have 152 mm secondaries. Again though, they have very poor AA (the AA being intended to defend against German airships (the Iron Dukes fell victim to the Washington Naval treaty before the world's navies really began improving ship AA capabilities).

 

The Revenge class is troublesome, inferior to the Queen Elizabeth class, but far too powerful to be at tier 5. And Warspite would indicate that the Queen Elizabeth class is going to be tier 6. Which as you say, probably gives us Nelson at tier 7. KGV at tier 8 has one other advantage, if WG don't nerf the AA suite like they did the Kongou's, and they make a nod towards the improved pom-pom directors that the KGV had (Warspite's were done by eye, KGV's were radar guided; Warspite's pom-poms make 3.5 dps per barrel and the US Sofors is 4.6m, so perhaps KGV should get 4 dps per barrel with the oct mounts [the ones that had the new directors]), the AA dps should be 530. Lion works as a tier 9. N3 at tier 9? It's a bit of a change from the last two though, but it should be able to stand up to the Yamato and Montana in a gunnery duel.

 

Tier 10 is why Warspite being tier 6 bugs me slightly. Ok, that might seem a bit a strange leap. If Warspite had been made tier 7 (better turret traverse, light increase in range, +1 km range on the secondaries to maintain the range advantage, maybe buff the rof on the 6" guns... Just little bits here and there to bring it in line. Oh, and HP of course...), then Revenge slots in at tier 6, and we can spit at tier 8; having KGV and Nelson. Nelson's not that much slower than the North Carolina, has surprisingly impressive armour (the deck is 108 to 159 mm thick, which makes it thicker than any tier 8 currently in game, and the hull is superior to the N.Carolina and the Amagi, with only the more lightly armed Tirpitz having more armour there). Tier 9 we'd see the Lion coming from KGV, and the L2 coming from the Nelson. (L2 is even more heavily armoured than the Nelson, with up to 203 mm of deck armour, eight 457 mm guns in four twin turrets, 16 152 mm guns in 8 turrets, 10 triple oerlikons (like some Crusader AA tanks had), 4 ten barreled pom-poms, and six 102 mm HA guns. Top speed would have been 25 knots, which is two knots faster than the Nelson, and two knots slower than the Iowa). N3 would be tier 10 following on from the L2 (very similar armour to the L2, but three triple 457 mm guns, same secondary and AA armaments but an extra four triple Oerlikons), and as I said earlier, should be able to match the US and IJN BBs in gunnery duels. The other tier 10 option is Vanguard...

 

Vanguard's a funny option. The belt is thinner that the Montana's midships, but thicker at the fore and aft, Vanguard's deck is thicker than Montana's and thicker at it's thinnest than Yamato's (lower maximum thickess though). The secondary battery is the same 133 mm guns as the KGV and Lion (and the Dido class cruiser for that matter), but four twin turrets on each flank. Historically they made 18 r/m, and if they make 2100 HE damage (likely given what comparable size guns do), that's 302.4k potential dpm. If you ignore Yamato's 155 mm AP battery (the 155s aren't that reliable against tier 10 cruisers from what I've seen, and I can't see them being that good against other TX BBs), then Vanguard would have the highest secondary dpm at tier 10 (and if Warspite is an indication, we should have a range advantage on the secondaries). Vanguard's AA dps would be about 450-460, which just pips the Yamato, but falls clearly short of the Montana. Vanguard would be the fastest BB since, well since the Bismark/Tirpitz actually, but other than that, since the Kongou. Which leaves us talking about the guns; the 381 mm guns. Ok. So they're tiny for tier 10. Obviously you're not going to be winning AP fights against the Yamato, but with 3 r/m it makes the same combined rate of fire as the Montana. That rate of fire would actually make it pretty good as a cruiser hunter; think about it, 30 knots is a pretty good speed and lets you keep pace with your own cruisers more easily, the AA isn't fantastic but would  complement a few cruisers nicely, the guns are definitely big enough to penetrate and citadel cruisers, and that extra round per minute should make it easier to deal with their dodging. The secondaries should be able to provide a certain level of assistance in that role... And you'd still be quite good at bugging the Yamato with HE fire.

 

The problem with putting the QE-class in T7 is that then it is going head to head against the Nagatos and the Colorados, both of which have significantly more firepower and armour than the QEs. In terms of age and displacement, the QE-class is solidly in T6, being constructed around the same time as the Fusos and being of very similar displacement. It makes no sense to artificially raise the tier of a ship beyond what it's power should be, as then you start to have to try to fiddle with all the statistics and figures to try to get it to work. As you mentioned, this also puts the NelRods at T7, which is exactly where they belong considering their age and displacement. The NelRods really can't compare to the North Carolinas, as the NCs have better turret arcs, more powerful guns (the British 16 inch MkI was generally considered to be quite poor) and is a few knots faster, the only slight advantage the NelRods have is their slightly thicker armour.

 

The N3 designs are likely to be quite powerful, but they really aren't T10 material. They have similar firepower to the Yamato, but they are worse in literally every other respect. They are slower, less armoured, and have a much smaller secondary battery, plus they don't have superfiring turrets. Overall, they are more likely to be T9 material, having good firepower but worse in most other respects. Some of the original preliminary designs or the L designs could possibly work at T10 though.

 

Vanguard should probably be a premium T8, it really doesn't have the specs to even go against T9s, let alone T10s. She has very good armour and speed, with armour between the T9s and the T10s and her speed basically matches the Iowas, but she is still limited by the old 15 inch guns. Those 15 inch guns are pretty solid at T6 and can do well into T7, but they aren't really going to do much to a T10 ship. This is why the Lion-class would be much better in T9 as they have basically the armour and speed of Vanguard but with 3x3 16 inch guns, which the design at the time was likely to be slightly weaker than the 16/50 guns on the Iowas and the Montanas, so overall sacrificing a small amount of firepower for other things, while the later Lion designs actually had the displacement and brute power to compete with the other T10s.

[piritskenyer]

What you guys seem to not take into consideration when it comes to the KGV, is that she could be balanced with higher-ish DPM for a lower damage/round setup. Supposing she indeed is T8, it'd look like this:

 

The NC now has

• 2 rpm/barrel for a combined rpm of 2 x 9 = 18 total rpm
• which in turn means a combined potential damage/minute of 18 x 13100 = 235800

The Amagi now has:

• 2 rpm/barrel for a combined rpm of 2 x 10 = 20 total rpm
• which in turn means a combined potential damage/minute of 20 x 12600 = 252000

 

Compared to this, let's say the KGV has guns that do 10-10.5k dmg/shot (like most 14" guns).

If we have to reach a dpm of 250000, that means that 250000 / (10 x 10500) = 2,38 rpm.

Now if we bump that to 2.4 or 2.5, we get 252000 (exacty that of the Amagi) or 262500 dpm respectively.

Now if I understand things correctly the 14" guns of the KGV were designed to have better armour penetration than previous designs, meaning that you should be able to land damaging hits more effectively.

[mr3awsome]

The Revenge class is troublesome, inferior to the Queen Elizabeth class, but far too powerful to be at tier 5. And Warspite would indicate that the Queen Elizabeth class is going to be tier 6.

Its not inferior to the QEs as built, its just they didn't receive as many upgrades during their lives because it would be more expensive, and when you've got less to go around you go for the similar but cheaper thing. 

 

(L2 is even more heavily armoured than the Nelson, with up to 203 mm of deck armour, eight 457 mm guns in four twin turrets, 16 152 mm guns in 8 turrets, 10 triple oerlikons (like some Crusader AA tanks had), 4 ten barreled pom-poms, and six 102 mm HA guns. Top speed would have been 25 knots, which is two knots faster than the Nelson, and two knots slower than the Iowa). N3 would be tier 10 following on from the L2 (very similar armour to the L2, but three triple 457 mm guns, same secondary and AA armaments but an extra four triple Oerlikons), and as I said earlier, should be able to match the US and IJN BBs in gunnery duels. 

L2 is better protected than N3, and faster so why would it be the tier below? If anything, L3 should be the tier X and N3 the tier IX. 

As for the triple Oerlikon, I would say not. 

 

[Historynerd]

Its not inferior to the QEs as built, its just they didn't receive as many upgrades during their lives because it would be more expensive, and when you've got less to go around you go for the similar but cheaper thing. 

 

As far as I know, the Revenge-class differed mostly for reverting to a mixed-fuel machinery and therefore to the 21-knot top speed, and I've also read that its armor scheme was different somewhat, although the maximum thickness of the belt (330 mm) was not altered. So, not "fast battleships" (in the meaning of the era) because of their having an average top speed, but pretty much as well armed and as protected as the Queen Elizabeth-class. Is this right?

[mr3awsome]

As far as I know, the Revenge-class differed mostly for reverting to a mixed-fuel machinery and therefore to the 21-knot top speed, and I've also read that its armor scheme was different somewhat, although the maximum thickness of the belt (330 mm) was not altered. So, not "fast battleships" (in the meaning of the era) because of their having an average top speed, but pretty much as well armed and as protected as the Queen Elizabeth-class. Is this right?

The QE had a complex main belt because it tapered. The Rs just had a uniform plate, thats thicker, I believe. 

[506_Mephisto]

I am wondering how WG is handling the british ammunition, which was known, to be ridiculously bad in WW1, which tend to crack/ explode on impact instead of penetrating the target. During the battle at the Falkland Islands, the two british battlecruisers fired more than 1100 shells, until Gneisenau and Scharnhorst went down, and during the battle of Dogger Bank,  Blücher was hit nearly100 times before going down. At the Battle of Jutland despite outnumbering the german forces, and having the bigger guns, the british did not manage to sink a single german battlecruiser, and while the german cruisers did take a heavy beating, none german capital ship went down during the battle by british shells. The only battlecruiser lost, was SMS Lützow, which was scuttled after the battle by german forces, after the crew failed to save the ship, although if I remeber correctly, there are theories, that Lützow might have been saved with a more experienced crew. 

[Synth_FG]

I am wondering how WG is handling the british ammunition, which was known, to be ridiculously bad in WW1, which tend to crack/ explode on impact instead of penetrating the target. During the battle at the Falkland Islands, the two british battlecruisers fired more than 1100 shells, until Gneisenau and Scharnhorst went down, and during the battle of Dogger Bank,  Blücher was hit nearly100 times before going down. At the Battle of Jutland despite outnumbering the german forces, and having the bigger guns, the british did not manage to sink a single german battlecruiser, and while the german cruisers did take a heavy beating, none german capital ship went down during the battle by british shells. The only battlecruiser lost, was SMS Lützow, which was scuttled after the battle by german forces, after the crew failed to save the ship, although if I remeber correctly, there are theories, that Lützow might have been saved with a more experienced crew. 

 

Lutzow was scuttled in a sinking condition after the battle of Jutland, and the rest of the German battlecruiser force was so battered that only 2 were available for the action of the 19th August

At the end of the battle, the British had maintained their numerical superiority and had 23 dreadnoughts ready and four battlecruisers still able to fight, while the Germans had only 10 dreadnoughts immediately available, damaged brittish ships were mostly repaired by end of July

The issues with the British Ammunition were recognised after the battle and were eventually rectified. Tests against surrendered German BB's after the war showed the new shells to be effective

[BuccaneerBill]

Yea the new 1918 Green Boy shells could penetrate the Baden well in the tests and were amongst if not the best shells of their time. I think they will come with the hull upgrade of the British Battleships. Though I don't think think this game includes reliability of weapons, so it doesn't really matter. 

 

The extra loss of the British Battle cruisers was more to do with the flash procedures not being followed than shells. German Battle cruisers had their turrets penetrated but did not blow up like the British ones because of this. Look at SMS Seydlitz at the Battle of Dogger Bank were the flash procedures were not being followed exactly.....very nearly blew up.

 

 

 

 

[Diminios]

The extra loss of British Battle cruisers at Jutland is more due to flash safety procedures notnbeing followed than shells. German Battle cruisers had their turrets penetrated but did not blow up like the British ones did with the same hits.

 

 

Because they learned from the battle of Dogger Bank, when SMS Seydlitz suffered from similar problems but fortunately survived.

[BuccaneerBill]

Because they learned from the battle of Dogger Bank, when SMS Seydlitz suffered from similar problems but fortunately survived.

 

Yep. I just edited my post to include this, probably about the same time you were writing this!

[Historynerd]

Though I don't think think this game includes reliability of weapons, so it doesn't really matter. 

 

I concur on this; shells are probably performing perfectly in game, and this issues are not implemented.

[Getzamatic]

Look at it this way, if they implement dodgy British WWI shells in the game, I'd like to know why the IJN's and USN's equally faulty period shells work perfectly...

[Diminios]

Maybe they already implemented it and that's the reason why we get so many overpens (shells don't detonate) or bounces (shells shatter)...

 

[Cosseria]

All Jap BBs skippers are experiencing very bad shell performance lately (last case, last night I could not yet sink an Omaha after 7 good 16" rounds... whiskey tango foxtrot?!?!?!) so yes, shell performance IS a factor in the game, I'd even say the favourite one for ninjia nerfs.

[BuccaneerBill]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Japanese shells.

[Jay135]

Alright, I went away and played the game some more and thought over what would work well in the meta, not necessarily what you'd automatically pick. For instance no KGV, as they're a Tier 9 hull with Tier 6 armament.

 

Tier 3: Dreadnought

 

Tier 4: Neptune

Speed: 21kts

Citadel: 254-203mm

Deck:  83mm

Main Armament:  10 x 5 12"

 

Tier 5: Iron Duke

Speed: 21kts

Citadel: 305-203mm

Deck: 26-64mm

Main Armament: 10 x 5 13.5"

 

Tier 6: Queen Elizabeth

Speed: 

Citadel: 330-51mm

Deck: 127-25mm

Main Armament: 8 x 4 15"  Mk.I

 

Tier 7: Nelson

Speed: 23kts,

Citadel 356mm 

Deck 152mm

Main Armament: 9 x 3 16" Mk.I

 

At a glance Nelson seem too powerful for Tier 7, but her armament has a 45 degree blind arc aft and her 16 inch HV guns never lived up to expectations. Her weaknesses would balance out her strengths in this tier.

 

Tier 8: Vanguard

Speed: 28kts

Citadel: 356-330mm

Deck: 152 - 127mm

Main Armament: 8 x 4 15" Mk.II

 

Very comparable to Bismarck and Tirpitz

 

Tier 9: Lion '38

Speed: 29kts

Citadel: 381-356mm

Deck:  153-127mm

Main Armament: 9 x 3 16" Mk.II

 

This is as they were laid down not as they were revised in 1942. Basically they're KGVs with the newly developed Mk.ll 16" guns.

 

Tier 10: L3 or N3

Either of these designs would sit nicely an uniquely against Montana and Yamato. 

[Spellfire40]

 

 

 

Tier 7: Nelson

Speed: 23kts,

Citadel 356mm 

Deck 152mm

Main Armament: 9 x 3 16" Mk.I

 

At a glance Nelson seem too powerful for Tier 7, but her armament has a 45 degree blind arc aft and her 16 inch HV guns never lived up to expectations. Her weaknesses would balance out her strengths in this tier.

 

 

 

Your sure? Blind Arcs dont makes lower level. Izumo has it too and a shity backward looking 3rd Turet. At least Nelsons Gun all face forward makeing so after a coursechange it wont take as long to get them from one side to the other. Also i wouldt dismiss KGV. Look at Tirpitz. At 1st glace its 15 inch are worse than Warspites but it is well competable to Amagi and NC.

[Killerbin34]

I've also thought on this subject a fair amount of and I do find that it seems for the most part its the KGVs (1939). That seem to draw the most flak for their layout. Of course some of this is down to the partial bad rep the class earned due to the fact they were rushed into the service when Britain needed them most and for the most part they performed very well all things considered. For example at Denmark Strait PoW still had civilian contractors on board finishing her. She wasn't sent because she was ready she was there because she was all that was available. And it was her shells which lead to Bismarck's eventual demise. Her loss during Force Z was down to a hit on par with the Swordfish jamming Bismarck's rudder. For which the torpedo caused a propeller shaft to flood. More recent surveys of the wreck to my knowledge show her TDS wasn't compromised.  So in game she may carry forward Warspite's ability to 'tank' torpedoes. Her guns in game will likely operate at their predicted maximum which should help even out her damage and my experience of getting into tier 8 games in both a Warspite and New Mexico have shown me the smaller 14 and 15'' guns can cut it there. Plus the fact the KGVs had some of the best 14'' guns developed. We were going to stick to the treaty and still try get the most performance out of those ships. Again their late war AA outfit is incredibly impressive rivaling the Iowas. So overall i'm willing to sacrifice some of those 1 hit wonder salvos for a ship which if she is implemented probably at Tier 8 will have no concerns about being underpowered. And having played the North Cal i would gladly give up some firepower for better Armour at times.

[Jay135]

Don't forget Spellfire the Nelsons handled like slugs. She may be able to take a lot of artillery punishment but she's torpedo bait at the same time. I'll agree with you both, the KGV were extremely well designed ships and the RN probably produced the best 14" guns in the world. Trouble is KGV's speed and citadel are Tier 9 territory and I don't think the 14" would cut it that high up the tech tree. I'd think they'd make a great Tier 8 Premium though.

[Killerbin34]

She's both the speed equal of North Cal with the expense of pure firepower compared with the others to make her as i like to call her the 'British Bulwark'. As well as being of the correct timespan. The Amagi suffers here compared to both.

The Lion 1939 planned and laid down though never completed are more of a tier 9 as they compare very favorably to the Iowas.

A British trend with battleships especially post WW1 is to maximize protection at the expense of raw firepower. At least until all the treaties were annulled and it was all out the war.

Of course this doesn't cover the 1920s designs such as G3 and N3 but they were intended to preserve the Royal Navy's superiority over its rivals.

Overall i'd say her Armour in game terms is T9 which has the issue as Vanguard has almost the same layout, her speed is equal to North Cal is most situation where as Vanguard was faster almost as face as Amagi. The guns serve to balance her as a Tier 8. Like its been said give Vanguard the best 15'' guns ever in game. I suppose they could model enhanced penetration on her guns to reflect her capability though never used to fire Supercharged 15'' shells and put her at tier 9 her AA suite is certainly nothing to laugh at. Or go for the British approach to an Iowa style ship in the form of the planned 1939 version of the Lions and equal Iowa's firepower and almost her AA while carrier much heavier Armour while being a little slower, the key difference between the designs were their range but this isnt modeled in game.

[KanColle4Life]

Nelson is obviously going to be Tier 7. All Big Seven's are at Tier 7's!.Get it?