RN BBs

[sam03413]

So for to satisfy my curiosity what do you guys think will be on the RNs BB line we know dreadnought will be down at teir three, and the queen elizabeth class will likely be in at teir 6 but where else do you think ships will go, particularly at high tier.  Personally I think the tier 8,9 and ten ships could be George the V, Nelson and maybe the N3 class right up the top. 

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

Nelson will probably be a 7 with KGV being an 8

[Woland_]

I think R-class will get tier V and Iron Duke tier IV. Tier IX will be Vanguard and X the never build second Lion-class (there was some topic - use search where the duo was confirmed to be placed that way).

[LeeQuid]

Vanguard is comparable to Bismarck so it would be tier 8 at best....it probably wont even be included in the original british BB line if they go with the Nelson at tier 8.

RN have enough BBs to make 2 complete lines.

[Trainspite]

My two cents for it. 3 Possible trees for now, a Battlecruiser line, a fast battleship line, and a slow battleship line. You can interchange some ships around, so maybe Dreadnought herself being premium, and replacing her with St Vincent or so.

 

 

 

[Rabid_Turnip]

I'd like to see the Agincourt as a possible premium at T4 or 5, it had a unique BB main battery of 7 (!) 2x12" guns.

[Getzamatic]

This is my best guess, assuming they go for a single line of Battleships.

 

Tier III:  Dreadnought

Tier IV:  Orion

Tier V:  Revenge

Tier VI:  Queen Elizabeth

Tier VII:  Nelson

Tier VIII:  KGV

Tier IX:  Lion (1937)

Tier X:  N3

 

There's some nice things you could do with upgrades for the earlier ships - for example taking Dreadnought and upgrading her secondaries gives us the Bellerophons, then subsequently upgrading the main guns gives us the St Vincents.  Similarly, with the Orions you could upgrade the guns to get the King George V (1910) class and then upgrade the secondaries to give you the Iron Dukes.

 

The Nelsons were the direct peers of the Colorados and Nagatos, so I can't see them being anything but tier VII.

[Trpaslik]

Vanguard is hardly comparable to Bismarck as it is more more modern ship. If they buff its accuracy, rof, turning speed of towers... together with good maneuverability, speed, armour and AA they can easilly balance her at tier 9. They can even give her upgraded guns to 406mm. Its better to have Vanguard at tier 9, than to have some obscure paper project from 20s here. Or two Lions one after another.

[Getzamatic]

Well, as paper projects go, the G3s and N3s are pretty famous, and have the advantage of being fully worked up designs unlike a lot of the stuff they'll be compelled to put in the Russian Tech tree...

 

The thing about Vanguard is on paper she's very, very close to Tirpitz.  Same same size, similar speed, slightly better better armour and slightly worse guns.  The only point of clear superiority for Vanguard is her AA fit and her radar.  Not really enough to make a tier IX ship whereas the Lions are almost exactly comparable to the Iowas, giving up a little speed for a lot more armour.  They are also a logical progression from the KGVs.  I'd love for Vanguard to be in the game, but she screams "Premium Ship"

 

I suppose you could buff her in some way to make a Tier IX ship, but I'm not sure the Lions - even the 1945 version of the design - are enough ship for Tier X.

[Eruantien_Aduialdraug]

What we have to hope is that they don't preemptively nerf the KGV's AA suite; by my count the combined DPS should be 498 (48 @ long range), with sixteen 133 mm guns, sixty four pom-poms, ten bofors, and thirty six 20 mm Oerlikons. Given that it only has 14 inch guns and people are expecting tier 8, it may well need the AA firepower. (If WG account for the pom-poms on KGV being radar guided, unlike those on Warspite, which were aimed purely by eye, then we may see the dps push over 500, maybe up to 530 if we're lucky)

[Jay135]

I pretty much agree with Getz. 

 

My own best guess:

 

3 Dreadnought

4 Iron Duke

5 Revenge

6 Queen Elizabeth

7 Nelson

8 KGV

9 Lion '42 

 

With Warspite, Hood and Vanguard as Tier 6 7 and 8 Premiums.

 

I'm left scratching my head over tier 10 designs.

 

 

[22cm]

 

With Warspite, Hood and Vanguard as Tier 6 7 and 8 Premiums.

 

 

So far there is only 1 premium BB available for each nation. I dont think that GB will get 3.

[Jay135]

And so far we don't even have a British tree.... I sincerely doubt War Gaming will only roll out a single premium per nation.

[johnsloveboat]

The r class will be given to Russian navy to buff up there bb line with some real ships

[Comrad_StaIin]

wouldnt Nelson be a little OP against Colorado and Nagato ?

maybe you should set Hood on Tier 7 instead

KGV is also a little slow and has small guns compared to Bismark,Amagi and North Carolina

---

My Version of the BB Tree

Dreadnought

Iron Duke

Revenge/Renown

KGV

Vanguard

Lion
Paper Project

 

 

[Jay135]

 

wouldnt Nelson be a little OP against Colorado and Nagato ?

maybe you should set Hood on Tier 7 instead

 

Nah. Nelson has the same speed as Colorado and Nagato, slightly superior fire power; 9 x 16" vs 8 x 16" and the armour is similar to Nagato and slightly superior to Colorado.  At best, Nelson's a little better than either, but much closer than the Hood, which is much faster than either but has much thinner armour and only 15" guns.

 

 KGV is also a little slow and has small guns compared to Bismark,Amagi and North Carolina

 

KGV is a good match in terms of armour and speed for the North Carolina. The armament difference is because the KGVs were built before the US invoked the 16" escalation clause in armament and the NCs after it. There's not a lot you could do about the armament disparity short of dumping the KGVs in favour of the 1938 version of Lion and Temeraire, but then you'd leave the RN struggling for both Tier 9 and 10 BBs.

 

[Comrad_StaIin]

The Problem is the RN has alot potential at the low tier BBs but struggles at the higher tiers

[Trainspite]

 - Revenge is better than New York, Kongo, Iron Duke and other prospective tier 5s. And very similar to QE. Tier 6 is fine for her. I would also count my bets for a premium Arkhangelsk (Royal Sovereign) for the Russians.

 - Nelson far better suited to tier 7, KGV (1939) to tier 8, where they are among their contemporaries from other nations.

 - The Royal Navy is not exactly lacking in high tier ships, there are plenty from the interwar period- which could be given fictional upgrades to AA and so on.

[Lord_Fisher]

A tier system is a good idea but the game is overly orientated around it. It should if anything just be accepted as a chronological-for-the-navy-in-question yardstick and not get bound up in any notions of each tier being equal to one another. The reality, as kotkiller alludes to, is that different navies advancement/ship building programmes was at different times. It would therefore be realistic if the RN's early tiered ships were easily better than most of the other navies, but perhaps towards the final tiers providing no distinct advantage, if not struggling in some aspects. If each ship represents its actual abilities, rather than being warped to conform to some abstract and arbitrary notion of 'how good a Tier VIII is' then people can pick a ship based on the ship rather than the Tier. That can be more faithful to history and to fact. The tiers then just provide a way of accessing later, and often [but not always better] ships, reflecting, quite accurately, that sometimes wrong turns were taken or that there were limitations on ship specifications at certain points.

 

 

The insertion of paper designs has made this harder and would have been best reserved for Tier X only or occasional premium ships.

 

In other words, some people may prefer to choose a lower tier on the basis that it is actually, in some respects, better than later tiers. This is easily conceivable between different navies, but even within them, makes sense depending on the characteristics that might be preferred. Some pre-Treaty battleships might be preferred as they were not limited in the ways Treaty ships were, whilst others might find them slothful cf. later ships but with smaller guns.

 

III- Dreadnought (I like the idea of Bellerophons and St Vincents etc being upgrades as was suggested previously)

IV- Orion (ditto working up to Iron Duke)

V- Revenge/Royal Sovereign

VI- QE

VII- Hood

VIII- Nelson

IX- KGV

X- Vanguard

 

Omitting Hood and having her as a Tier VII special would allow the N3 to fit in as paper design for Tier X.

 

What is sad is that battlecruisers are either under-represented or again warped into having better armour than they did in order to conform to a Tier-orientated system. It would be incredibly sad to miss the Invincible class, Lion class, Tiger class, and Renown class. Maybe they should all be specials, at Tier III, IV, V, VI respectively, and with Hood coming in at VII? Would kind of work.

 

Either way it's a travesty the RN has been overlooked in favour of navies that were either never its equal, or its equal only in the last 3 years of the battleship era the game is based on.

[Lance_Horne]

A tier system is a good idea but the game is overly orientated around it. It should if anything just be accepted as a chronological-for-the-navy-in-question yardstick and not get bound up in any notions of each tier being equal to one another. The reality, as kotkiller alludes to, is that different navies advancement/ship building programmes was at different times. It would therefore be realistic if the RN's early tiered ships were easily better than most of the other navies, but perhaps towards the final tiers providing no distinct advantage, if not struggling in some aspects. If each ship represents its actual abilities, rather than being warped to conform to some abstract and arbitrary notion of 'how good a Tier VIII is' then people can pick a ship based on the ship rather than the Tier. That can be more faithful to history and to fact. The tiers then just provide a way of accessing later, and often [but not always better] ships, reflecting, quite accurately, that sometimes wrong turns were taken or that there were limitations on ship specifications at certain points.

 

 

 

The insertion of paper designs has made this harder and would have been best reserved for Tier X only or occasional premium ships.

 

 

In other words, some people may prefer to choose a lower tier on the basis that it is actually, in some respects, better than later tiers. This is easily conceivable between different navies, but even within them, makes sense depending on the characteristics that might be preferred. Some pre-Treaty battleships might be preferred as they were not limited in the ways Treaty ships were, whilst others might find them slothful cf. later ships but with smaller guns.

 

 

III- Dreadnought (I like the idea of Bellerophons and St Vincents etc being upgrades as was suggested previously)

IV- Orion (ditto working up to Iron Duke)

V- Revenge/Royal Sovereign

VI- QE

VII- Hood

VIII- Nelson

IX- KGV

X- Vanguard

 

 

Omitting Hood and having her as a Tier VII special would allow the N3 to fit in as paper design for Tier X.

 

 

What is sad is that battlecruisers are either under-represented or again warped into having better armour than they did in order to conform to a Tier-orientated system. It would be incredibly sad to miss the Invincible class, Lion class, Tiger class, and Renown class. Maybe they should all be specials, at Tier III, IV, V, VI respectively, and with Hood coming in at VII? Would kind of work.

 

 

Either way it's a travesty the RN has been overlooked in favour of navies that were either never its equal, or its equal only in the last 3 years of the battleship era the game is based on.

 

I know it is irritating not having the Royal Navy represented in the game,but its all about revenue, there are probably more Germans and Russians play the game than Brits.

[Getzamatic]

The Germans are worth looking forward to.  The WW2 era Kriegsmarine were a bit of a flop with only one true battleship design and a couple of paper designs to their name, but the Imperial German Navy was the real deal and should make the first four tiers of their tree really cool.  I'm betting Nassau, Moltke, Konig, Bayern...

 

As for the Russians?  Well, WG are Russian, what did you expect?  So long as they resist the temptation to go way overboard on the capabilities of a lot of ships that never left the drawing board, then I'm prepared to grit my teeth and wait for some more real navies to get added.  I do wonder what they'll do for a Tier III battleship however - based on current trends the Ganguts and Imperatritsa Mariyas (which were basically the same design) are firmly tier IV designs and they have no preceding dreadnought to go with.

 

[philjd]

Likely Premium RN BB's would be:-

 

1) Warspite (in game)

2) Dreadnought (probably Tier3)

3) Agincourt (T5 - 14x12" guns but not much armour)

4) Hood (T6 or 7)

5) Vanguard (T7 or 8)

Reasoning - barring Warspite,which is pretty famous as a ship within a class, the others are all unique vessels.

Plenty of built designs to fill the tree(s), except for T10 which would be a Lion class.

 

Some notes

AA suite on the KGV's - the 5.25" twin design was too cramped for sustained and accurate firing, so not as good as they could have been (Vanguard had the improved design, which worked as intended). (source - http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_525-50_mk1.htm)

NelRods - the 16" guns on these were designed around the results of a flawed proving test, so not as good as the USN/IJN equivalents. (source http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_16-45_mk1.htm)

USN 16" - also used a superheavy shell (2700lb's from the early 40's, which no other Navy matched,giving their guns a much more effective shell when they hit. So a pure caliber comparison does not work in these instances. (source http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-45_mk6.htm)

 

 

[edit:typos]

[Synth_FG]

TBH I'd put the Revenge's at T6 for the RN 

And release the QE' (QE, WS, BRM, MAL, VAL) s as a series of individual premiums, each with unique skins and slightly different buffs

[jedispam]

TBH I'd put the Revenge's at T6 for the RN 

And release the QE' (QE, WS, BRM, MAL, VAL) s as a series of individual premiums, each with unique skins and slightly different buffs

 

Id say the QE class deserve to be in the tree. They could always have both Revenge class and QE class as tier 6's. Just let people choose which version they want, for example revenge could have higher resistance against torps due to their better torpedo bulges and be less expensive to repair than the QE, as they were essentially a cheaper QE class. Meanwhile the QE would have better AA and speed.

[Dazo_2015]

The Royal navy has so many Battleship designs it could fill up 2 complete lines particularly if you decided to split it into Battleships and Battlecruisers. The Royal Navy battleships seem somewhat weaker at higher tiers A British Teir 10 would have to be a paper design.

 

Starting with Dreadnought at Tier III

 

Battlecruiser line

 

Tier IV    Invincible

Tier V    Tiger

Tier VI    Renown

Tier VII   Hood (Admiral class)

Tier VIII  Vanguard (Vanguard was a Battleship but was based on the concept of a fully Armoured Battlescruiser, she had similar speed armament and dimensions to Hood. But massively increased protection, AA, and sea worthiness.

Tier IX    G3

Tier X    Unknown N3?

 

Battleship line

 

Tier III Dreanought

Tier IV Bellerophon, Neptune, Colossus, or Agincourt. Lots of classes could go here. Agincourt is a strange 1 though. A 14 gun 12 inch Battleship but with weaker armour.

Tier V   Iron Duke

Tier VI  Queen Elizabeth (Warspite) Or R class

Tier VII Nelson class (Much to small and slow to be considered any higher a Tier)

Tier VIII KGV  Too modern to be put at any lower tier even though it is only a 14 inch gun battleship (Will have the weakest Tier 8 Broadside but the heaviest Tier 8 armour at 15 inches 381 mm of citadel armour.)

Tier IX  Lion Class.

Tier X  'Super' Lion or N3

 

British Battleships might have weaker firepower at high tiers but be more survivable and more maneuverable.