Minekaze post 0.4.1 - Buffed or Nerfed?

[StuntMan0369]

Just got done watching the patch 0.4.1 video that Wargaming put out. Overall, looks like a very nice patch with many issues being addressed. However, what intrigued me was the changes to Minekaze.

 

I must say, I have a soft spot for the Minekaze, it is a very enjoyable destroyer to play, it's detection range is great and the torpedoes hit a real sweet spot. In the video it was outright called OP (in fairness, I'd have to agree). So to combat this, they've raised it's detection range (but only by 300m or so if I remember correctly?) and removed it's top torps. At the same time though, the turret traverse of the main battery was buffed to make it a little more bearable.

 

In short, I don't see this as a nerf; I never used the 10km torps as they had poor speed and the probability of a ship turning before they reach the target was very high. Sure, when you have quintuple launchers, its not so bad, but you only have 3 double launchers. As such, the removal of 10km torps doesn't seem much of a nerf. Right then, what about it's detection range? Currently in my Minekaze I can get within 5.8km of a ship and I can just about stay unspotted. So with this nerf, it will be closer to 6.1km. Again, I don't personally see this as that big a nerf, as that's still a good 1-1.5km or so to play around with considering you have 7km torps (if a target is travelling towards you, you can launch at ~8km and still hit). The turret traverse is a straight forward buff, getting those guns turning a little quicker is always welcome when you need to put some hurt into an enemy DD.

 

So with that in mind, I don't see it as a buff. Unless there were some other changes to it's 7km torps which I have missed, I believe the Minekaze may have been buffed rather than nerfed. Again, this could all be opinion, but I would be intrigued to see what others think (especially those who do indeed use the 10km torps).

[Userext]

10km torpedoes have only bad side for being slower. Other then that there is no reaction time diffrences between them. So removing 10km torps and making consealment 6.2km is a mediocre nerf. Its not going to kill minekaze in the end. Also gun buff isnt a buff. Remember IJNDDs arent gun ships so buffing their guns isnt exactly buff.

 

Another memory i cant get rid off is that minekaze's guns didnt have 45 sec turn time. I remember i was cursing my life because mutsuki had too slow guns. Which means they arent giving a "buff" to minekaze its more like "i cut you in half but let me put bandage to your meat.

[DtXpwnz]

 

I must say, I have a soft spot for the Minekaze, it is a very enjoyable destroyer to play, it's detection range is great and the torpedoes hit a real sweet spot. In the video it was outright called OP (in fairness, I'd have to agree).

At tier 5, minekaze is:

-ship with second highest average dmg (after Zuiho)

-ship with second highest average exp (after Zuiho)

-ship with second highest average winrate (after Zuiho)

-ship with second highest average kills/battle (after Zuiho)

 

[f34rYz]

I rarely use my guns on IJN DD, specially Mutsuki with the C hull and top guns. You're not supposed to gun other ships, its merely a "finishing off" tool in my eyes. Other than this and setting CV's on fire as you approach them pretty much no use to me. Furutaka was really hard go grind. Most of the time i charged BB's and zig-zagged close enough to launch torps from both side.

[blinkster]

They are nerfing it cause,they just dont know what else to nerf on the DD line so that the baBBies stop crying for once.

[Userext]

 

They should have nerfed minekaze with turning the reaction time chart for IJN part upside down

 

[StuntMan0369]

I rarely use my guns on IJN DD, specially Mutsuki with the C hull and top guns. You're not supposed to gun other ships, its merely a "finishing off" tool in my eyes. Other than this and setting CV's on fire as you approach them pretty much no use to me. Furutaka was really hard go grind. Most of the time i charged BB's and zig-zagged close enough to launch torps from both side.

 

I had exactly the same idea with Japanese guns, totally worthless to use them. However, it's inevitable you will meet an enemy DD, and the chance of torping them is slim if they know what they are doing. In self defence, the guns on the Minekaze are actually fairly decent (besides their slow traverse, but as said before, that's getting a buff). If you plan your movements beforehand and position your guns to cover your escape route, the enemy DD will lose a bit of health and more than likely have to use their damage control ability.

[Frank_F_B]

I am a minekaze fan myself and yes I do see this as another nerf. Upside is I did not hear anything about the rudder/shift time

[allex27]

wondering why they nerf tier7 and 8 japanese cruisers ;D

 

[Frank_F_B]

wondering why they nerf tier7 and 8 japanese cruisers ;D

 

 

So do I, finally at tier 8 Japanese cruiser and BAM! Nerf. 

[Takeda92]

Minekaze wasn't nerfed, Mutsuki was however!

[Nagine]

Minekaze wasn't nerfed, Mutsuki was however!

 

Mutsuki's only nerf is increased spotting range by 300 m. It's a big deal only for those who use 6 km torps, but I doubt there are many doing so.

 

However, Minekaze loosing 10 km torps is a major nerf. At the tiers, in which Minekaze populutes, there are plenty of "straight sailing" BBs, so slower torp speed is not a big deal. However those 10 km allowed to easily hold the whole flank even if you are all alone. It will be much harder to do this with 7 km torps if there are at least two thinking captains on enemy team.

[StuntMan0369]

I think what this is gonna come down to is this:

 

7km torp users - Minekaze barely nerfed, verging on buffed.

10km torp users - Minekaze heavily nerfed.

 

I am interested in the ratio of players who favour the 10km's over the 7km's. Would have made a great poll actually, should have thought of that when I made the original post... oh whale!

 

Edit - Oh, I actually can add the poll, ignore prior!

[Adwaenyth]

 

They should have nerfed minekaze with turning the reaction time chart for IJN part upside down

 

 

 

Actually the reaction times make sense in that way, that the higher tier ships are longer and take much longer to turn than the low tier ships.

 

Also the high speed torps are interesting as there are other things spotting the torps than just the intended target - also the slower the torps and the longer the range, the more maneuvers the target ship will make anyways, so faster torps are usually better.

[Userext]

Actually the reaction times make sense in that way, that the higher tier ships are longer and take much longer to turn than the low tier ships.

 

You would think there is a diffrence between a tier 5 BB captain and a tier 10 BB captain. You know at least one of them should know more about torpedoes. 

18 rudder shift time on kongo with 770 turning circle (9 sec reaction time on minekaze 68knot torpedoes drops from at most 6km without being detected which means 33secs time until torpedo reaches target)

20.4 rudder shift time on amagi with 870 turning circle(12 sec reation time on fubuki 62 knot torpedoes drops from at most 7.1km without being detected which means 42 secs time until torpedo reaches target)

24 rudder shift time on yamato with 900 turning circle (12 sec reaction time on shimakaze drops from at most 8km without being detected which means 44secs time until torpedo reaches target)

 

Now tell me why do Battleships get better with the higher tiers but they make it harder to hit with torpedoes. Everyone knows if you turn your ship a bit every 10 or 20 secs you can dodge every ship launched torpedo that game. I didnt even tell you about fubuki's 52 knot torpedo upgrade. You call taht an upgrade WG? Yuo give us range couple of seconds faster reload for what? Less torpedo hit ratio?

 

No but seriously look at those numbers. All i can understand from that is that if you get caught at tier 10 by ship launched torpedo you deserved it. Any ship with rudder shift time module can evade torpedoes. They should make the chart upside down so that people who sail in a straight line at high tiers would not do much against DDs. Torpedoes that launched by stealthy DDs reach their targets in a longer time at higher tiers. In that time if you dont move your ship its your fault. 

 

[Eisenengel]

The combination of increased detectability range and reduced torp range is a bit of an unpleasant double whammy. Other than that, not really got a problem with the change.

[Takeda92]

 

Mutsuki's only nerf is increased spotting range by 300 m. It's a big deal only for those who use 6 km torps, but I doubt there are many doing so.

 

However, Minekaze loosing 10 km torps is a major nerf. At the tiers, in which Minekaze populutes, there are plenty of "straight sailing" BBs, so slower torp speed is not a big deal. However those 10 km allowed to easily hold the whole flank even if you are all alone. It will be much harder to do this with 7 km torps if there are at least two thinking captains on enemy team.

 

It is a nerf for those progressing the IJN DD line. even before the stealth nerf stock Mutsuki was brutal, now you have to play as nerfed US DD until you unlock the hull and the torps. No one ever, ever said Mutsuki was OP. In fact everyone said she was bad. How did WG fix that? by making her stock grind even more painful and not giving her the torp reload buff they said they would.

[Takeda92]

 

You would think there is a diffrence between a tier 5 BB captain and a tier 10 BB captain. You know at least one of them should know more about torpedoes. 

18 rudder shift time on kongo with 770 turning circle (9 sec reaction time on minekaze 68knot torpedoes drops from at most 6km without being detected which means 33secs time until torpedo reaches target)

20.4 rudder shift time on amagi with 870 turning circle(12 sec reation time on fubuki 62 knot torpedoes drops from at most 7.1km without being detected which means 42 secs time until torpedo reaches target)

24 rudder shift time on yamato with 900 turning circle (12 sec reaction time on shimakaze drops from at most 8km without being detected which means 44secs time until torpedo reaches target)

 

Now tell me why do Battleships get better with the higher tiers but they make it harder to hit with torpedoes. Everyone knows if you turn your ship a bit every 10 or 20 secs you can dodge every ship launched torpedo that game. I didnt even tell you about fubuki's 52 knot torpedo upgrade. You call taht an upgrade WG? Yuo give us range couple of seconds faster reload for what? Less torpedo hit ratio?

 

No but seriously look at those numbers. All i can understand from that is that if you get caught at tier 10 by ship launched torpedo you deserved it. Any ship with rudder shift time module can evade torpedoes. They should make the chart upside down so that people who sail in a straight line at high tiers would not do much against DDs. Torpedoes that launched by stealthy DDs reach their targets in a longer time at higher tiers. In that time if you dont move your ship its your fault. 

 

 

Amagi has 12 seconds rudder shift. the UI is bugged and they will be fixed next patch.

[Userext]

 

Amagi has 12 seconds rudder shift. the UI is bugged and they will be fixed next patch.

 

No? UI was bugged at PT server. I cant quote what Ev1n said directly here but he said there is no change at UI its bugged we will fix it. So 20.4 seconds is normal time. At PT modules and such did change the values at UI so while someone who ddint own amagi was seeing 15 you saw 12 because you probably mounted rudder shift time module on it

 

TLDR- it was just UI bug at PT. Non of the ships received a rudder shift time buff. IF they would really receive that buff i would stop playing DDs.

 

Edit: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/26589-full-list-of-041-ship-changes-from-pts-including-undocumented-changes/#entry466402

 

Captains (and ladies),

 

Just to comment on the rudder shift changes:

Yes, the numbers will change with 0.4.1 deployment. However, this is not a nerf to DDs and your ships will actually not turn faster. This is just a bug fix for the port UI, as in the current patch the values for rudder shift are not calculated correctly.

 

This fix will be reflected in the final patch notes, which will be released just before the patch itself goes live. We don't usually post the full notes earlier than that because things can change based on the results of the public testing phase.

 

Hope that clears it up.

 

Action Stations! 

 

[Takeda92]

 

No? UI was bugged at PT server. I cant quote what Ev1n said directly here but he said there is no change at UI its bugged we will fix it. So 20.4 seconds is normal time. At PT modules and such did change the values at UI so while someone who ddint own amagi was seeing 15 you saw 12 because you probably mounted rudder shift time module on it

 

TLDR- it was just UI bug at PT. Non of the ships received a rudder shift time buff. IF they would really receive that buff i would stop playing DDs.

 

Edit: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/26589-full-list-of-041-ship-changes-from-pts-including-undocumented-changes/#entry466402

 

 

 

So 12 seconds with the module.. that's still pretty high for a 12 seconds reaction torpedo. It should be 15 secs with the module, not without i!

[Userext]

 

So 12 seconds with the module.. that's still pretty high for a 12 seconds reaction torpedo. It should be 15 secs with the module, not without i!

 

Lets wait and see the 0.4.1 update. Because the rudder shift times arent going to change. So its not going to say 15secs in port it will say 20.4. 

[inAbag]

 

It is a nerf for those progressing the IJN DD line. even before the stealth nerf stock Mutsuki was brutal, now you have to play as nerfed US DD until you unlock the hull and the torps. No one ever, ever said Mutsuki was OP. In fact everyone said she was bad. How did WG fix that? by making her stock grind even more painful and not giving her the torp reload buff they said they would.

 

The Mutsuki looks bad because the Minekaze is too good.

[Userext]

 

The Mutsuki looks bad because the Minekaze is too good.

 

 

 

Will your next post be "Colorado looks bad because all the otehr ships are good NURF AL THE OTHR SHIPS!!111!!1"

[avenger121]

Will your next post be "Colorado looks bad because all the otehr ships are good NURF AL THE OTHR SHIPS!!111!!1"

 

Look at his service record. That smelly smell, smells like baBBie for me.

 

 

 

@ inAbag:

Just check european server stats out.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150826ea/average_ship.html

[inAbag]

Will your next post be "Colorado looks bad because all the otehr ships are good NURF AL THE OTHR SHIPS!!111!!1"

 

The salty tears of a DD player. Protip: When you have to resort to posting images and retarded argumentation you already show that you've lost.