what COULD make high tier DDs viable...

[rafparis]

just one little thing: planes do not detect torps.

I think that's the worst game mechanic for high tier DDs. Once spotted, torps are always visible.

With the amount of planes you have at higher tiers, you almost always have your torp lanes blocked by a plane that detects them, so it's super easy to avoid them, especially with the high detection range of torps past tier 5 (which is stupid).

Heck, spotting planes could still detect it, it's the parked fighters in a torp lane that are the worst.

Runing a high tier ship is extremely expensive, and high tier torps are very expensive. but made almost useless because of the plane spoting. And you must do some damage in order to break even.

Even the aparently higher damage of torps at higher tiers is nullified by the fact that ships at that tier have huge HP pools (except DDs...), so without a detonation, you could land 4 torps on a cruiser and it's still floating...

 

DDs were nerfed to oblivion, maybye it's time to buff them little by little so we can make them at least viable again? (and don't tell me the AA buff for USN DDs is a good buff... it isn't)

[von_chom]

just one little thing: planes do not detect torps.

 

 

pic or didnt happend

[II_Nemesis_II]

 

pic or didnt happend

 

He doesn't mean that it's not happening, but that it shouldn't.

 

Well I cannot agree, because then what would be the purpose of CVs in CWs?

[ttchip]

Well I cannot agree, because then what would be the purpose of CVs in CWs?

 

Spotting the DD itself is totally not enough to neutralize the threat, ehh?

[Figment]

Actually, there's just one thing.

 

Unit detection range.

 

Viable torping is done from within 7km. High tier DDs can't get that close most the time. You see people who have torp hitrates of 10% go down to 2% in a Fubuki, just because they're forced to launch from much further away. Getting closer is certain death, as the enemy's firepower goes up much faster than their own HP can compensate. Sure, you get more torps to fire, but that only makes it easier to spot an incoming spread. Remember that cruiser with 40 torps? Most the time it wouldn't hit anything, since people saw one torp, realised which unit fired and would take evasive action well before the entire spread would arrive.

[Userext]

You want to make high tier DDs normal? Letm e tel lyou how to make them normal

 

 

 

 

 

 

Delete them. They are useless now it would be better deleting them.

[II_Nemesis_II]

 

Spotting the DD itself is totally not enough to neutralize the threat, ehh?

 

No it is not about that. CVs in CWs will (at least in current meta) have only one purpose. Air superiority. And air superiority is now key element mainly cause of spotting enemy destroyers AND their torps. CWs will be mainly about blobed fleets, and that's where the power of Shimakaze and its 15 torps each giving 20k dmg would be the most devastating.

 

Spotting only the DD is not enough as you have to count that the DD will itself have a carrier with fighters guarding space above it.

[von_chom]

 

He doesn't mean that it's not happening, but that it shouldn't.

 

Well I cannot agree, because then what would be the purpose of CVs in CWs?

 

oh my bad

[Userext]

No it is not about that. CVs in CWs will (at least in current meta) have only one purpose.

 

I suppose you havent played this game* much have you? They can slap the .... out of enemy teams. 

 

Edit: i typed battle instead of game

[22cm]

Broken as expected.

Planes detect torps when flying low altitude, and detect ships when flying high altitude.

In WoWs planes have no altitude parameter, they fly through mountains or through the sea, and detect everything.

IRL even if they spotted torps,  they would send that info back only to the carrier, and then the carrier would send it to other ships,  usually to late.

 

[Takeda92]

czNemesis: I thought you called anyone who comments on high tier carrier to have "irrelevant arguments" because they don't play them. So from where this trust of DD capabilities of yours is coming from?

[ttchip]

No it is not about that. CVs in CWs will (at least in current meta) have only one purpose. Air superiority. And air superiority is now key element mainly cause of spotting enemy destroyers AND their torps. CWs will be mainly about blobed fleets, and that's where the power of Shimakaze and its 15 torps each giving 20k dmg would be the most devastating.

 

You mean DDs might actually destroy something? EUREKA!

 

Spotting only the DD is not enough as you have to count that the DD will itself have a carrier with fighters guarding space above it.

 

That makes spotting the DD itself even easier as planes are spotted further out than the DD itself. Heck, having the torps not be spotted by planes would actually add another layer of mindgames to the battles instead of completely neutralizing one class of ships. You'd have to infer whether or not the DD has actually launched torps or not.

 

In all fairness: Having torps be completely invisible to planes might be a bit too much. The current spotting distances for them make DD gameplay a pain in the butt, though.

[Dagon_NOR]

How about giving all high tier DD better guns and the ability to shoot undetected. Take the focus away from the torps and the DD can be more usefull against other DD and CA as a skirmish unit.

[Takeda92]

How to make DDs viable again? simple.. we need a better balancing team!

[rafparis]

How about giving all high tier DD better guns and the ability to shoot undetected. Take the focus away from the torps and the DD can be more usefull against other DD and CA as a skirmish unit.

 

that was one of my ideas too (don't add the 4km detect range when you fire), but it might be too much, now WG need to try little steps buffing, to make a class viable, and not have to nerf it to oblivion again.

[Xevious_Red]

 

I suppose you havent played this game* much have you? They can slap the .... out of enemy teams. 

 

Edit: i typed battle instead of game

 

I highly doubt anyone will use strike CV in clan wars when it turns up. Strike carriers are great at killing lone units. I doubt they'll do particularly well against a team that is all communicating AND working together to have multiple overlapping AA.

 

In WOT the Clan wars would usually have 1 person in arty to direct the battle since they have a better view and can therefore make more informed decisions than people "on the ground".

Carriers in clan wars will probably be used for the same purpose - used for scouting and to give the commander an overhead view.

 

I doubt that the strike ones will be used simply because they'll get trumped by co-ordinated AA + fighter screen

[Vincinzerei]

How about giving all high tier DD better guns and the ability to shoot undetected. Take the focus away from the torps and the DD can be more usefull against other DD and CA as a skirmish unit. 

Please do yourself a Favor. Make yourself an Account on the Public Testserver and play some High Tier DD games. You can achieve Tier X in about 4 Hours

 Than come back.. and answer to your own Question ;)

 

 

[Dagon_NOR]

 

that was one of my ideas too (don't add the 4km detect range when you fire), but it might be too much, now WG need to try little steps buffing, to make a class viable, and not have to nerf it to oblivion again.

 

And the addition of spotting XP will help as well. AFAIK it will be added soon-ish.

[rafparis]

 

No it is not about that. CVs in CWs will (at least in current meta) have only one purpose. Air superiority. And air superiority is now key element mainly cause of spotting enemy destroyers AND their torps. CWs will be mainly about blobed fleets, and that's where the power of Shimakaze and its 15 torps each giving 20k dmg would be the most devastating.

 

Spotting only the DD is not enough as you have to count that the DD will itself have a carrier with fighters guarding space above it.

 

CW? the thing that is played by 10% of the server population? And the 90% of the other people have to adapt?

Sorry mate, it's the other way around Public games needs to be fun and balanced, and you CW guys adapt to the meta that emerges.

[Dagon_NOR]

Please do yourself a Favor. Make yourself an Account on the Public Testserver and play some High Tier DD games. You can achieve Tier X in about 4 Hours

 Than come back.. and answer to your own Question ;)

 

 

 

That's unlikely. I hate DD gameplay. But as a BB player i can say that the only thing i fear is being alone and facing too many planes (being the only ship that spawns in the north of the island of ice map is the reason why i dont like playing my BB right now).

 

DD are no real threat if one plays carefull and avoids islands, or sailing in straight lines, so DD need some love.

[Userext]

 

I highly doubt anyone will use strike CV in clan wars when it turns up. Strike carriers are great at killing lone units. I doubt they'll do particularly well against a team that is all communicating AND working together to have multiple overlapping AA.

 

In WOT the Clan wars would usually have 1 person in arty to direct the battle since they have a better view and can therefore make more informed decisions than people "on the ground".

Carriers in clan wars will probably be used for the same purpose - used for scouting and to give the commander an overhead view.

 

I doubt that the strike ones will be used simply because they'll get trumped by co-ordinated AA + fighter screen

 

You can highly doubt that but a clan with no strike CV setup will lose. I bet my [edited]off that most clans would use hakuryu+midway. You might think coordinated AA can save you but it isnt just CV vs enemy team you know

 

Edit: Leaving the most powerfull class in game? You must be a mad man

[Venatacia]

 

Was in my Hat yesterday telling the enemy team to play one if they think DD at this tier are good and OP as they were saying to me at the start of battle. Funny thing was, after 5 matches of "not getting one torpedo hit", I get 4 kills in this match because they sailed in straight lines. So now they think that DD are OP for sure because I managed to get 4 kills - not to mention they all made it easy for me by sailing in straight lines and not using there CV to spot me up.

 

Going on playing DD to tier 9 in CBT and back up to tier 7 in OBT- from tier 7+ they need more speed, both ship and torpedo and the guns need to either be removed and replaced with something else or speed them up a little too. Guns are so slow turning they are pointless (IJN), make them faster turning but with short range so when you do get in range at least you can do something with them. Smoke for tier 7 up could do with lasting longer. That would be a start. I keep asking myself what could be done to make these DD playable at high tiers and the only answer I can think of is what I just mentioned.

 

[Sharana]

 

I highly doubt anyone will use strike CV in clan wars when it turns up. Strike carriers are great at killing lone units. I doubt they'll do particularly well against a team that is all communicating AND working together to have multiple overlapping AA.

 

In WOT the Clan wars would usually have 1 person in arty to direct the battle since they have a better view and can therefore make more informed decisions than people "on the ground".

Carriers in clan wars will probably be used for the same purpose - used for scouting and to give the commander an overhead view.

 

I doubt that the strike ones will be used simply because they'll get trumped by co-ordinated AA + fighter screen

Yep and that was the case in all tournaments so far (on RU ofc ). Stike CVs can sealclub lonely targets or lower tier ships, but fighters can pretty much shut them down + formation on the enemy side = the damage the CV will do is completely negligable, so it's far better to use fighters only (yeah Midway because of the reserves) and post. That means fight in the air for spot and track/cover DDs. 

 

CW? the thing that is played by 10% of the server population? And the 90% of the other people have to adapt?

Sorry mate, it's the other way around Public games needs to be fun and balanced, and you CW guys adapt to the meta that emerges.

To be honest WoWs is currently designed as team game where the teamplay is requirement not a bonus. So CWs that are all about teamplay is actually working as intended

 

@ Userext - I really doubt you will find tier X CV captain that will tell you strike deck is actually viable in CW if they started tomorrow (current game mechanics). That should mean something.

[Userext]

@ Userext - I really doubt you will find tier X CV captain that will tell you strike deck is actually viable in CW if they started tomorrow (current game mechanics). That should mean something.

 

ANd i doubt you can find any team that will waste their CV on fighters . As i said a midway and hakuryu is the way CW teams would chose. Having airsuperiority will not help you if you dont have planes to do damage. Also there isnt any setup that allows you to have 0 TB is there? for tier Xs of course

[ttchip]

ANd i doubt you can find any team that will waste their CV on fighters . As i said a midway and hakuryu is the way CW teams would chose. Having airsuperiority will not help you if you dont have planes to do damage. Also there isnt any setup that allows you to have 0 TB is there? for tier Xs of course

 

USN air sup loadouts have 0 TBs. The only exception to that are the 2/0/2 "air sup" vs 2/1/1 "balanced" loadouts on Lexington.