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Admiral_Kai

BB's vs CA's

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Beta Tester
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in what planet did you guys at WG get facts from?  a battle ship would insta kill a cruiser within 10km with 1 salvo and me and a few friends constantly only get 1140-2280 dmg on them this is a joke 

 

1 match i get 8-9 citadels then it feels like the game punnishes me for a few games later by only letting me dmg other by 1140-2280 each shell :( im not the only person im sure to feel like this ive sold my montana as it was just a loss of creds every match even on a win (and dont say WoT is the same coz no it aint i have deathstar and play it constantly and fire AP as standard and its win win win with creds even on a lose game)

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Beta Tester
10 posts

ppl are going to put "you not hitting it in right place" if you think that dont post a reply coz this game is RNG all the way not skill

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Alpha Tester
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ppl are going to put "you not hitting it in right place" if you think that dont post a reply coz this game is RNG all the way not skill

 

But that is obviously the answer.

 

If you only get a few thousand damage you are overpenetrating. Pretty much any place but the citadel will net you overpenetrations if you are shooting at a cruiser with those 16"/50 guns.

 

And that the game would be 100% RNG is a lot of exaggeration, would you hit a ship if you point the guns the opposite direction? I am fully aware that is as much hyperbole as your statement.

 

 

Anyhow, in my experiences battleships will usually punish cruisers that gets so close with a salvo or sometimes two. But the overall reason why battleships aren't the be-all and end-all type of ship in the game is because of game balance. You shouldn't be forced to play one class over another to be competetive. (Aircraft carriers are getting a rebalance next patch, no need to bring them up.)

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Players
95 posts
2,224 battles

Weird that you mention higher tier BBs - I've had similar opinion until I've reached NC. Ever since then though it feels that on 8-14km I can hit cruisers somewhat reliably (at least those who dare show their broadside, but there's a fairly high chance to citadel them even from the front). 

 

As for your facts... who on Earth would play cruisers/DDs if one salvo on 10km from a BB would always kill them? 

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[BANG-]
Beta Tester
857 posts
11,484 battles

Because aiming is not a skill?

Learn where to aim, close the distance...... simple as that.

RNG is there to balance BBs, because how fair would it be is you get clicked reliably by a BB sniping from 20kms away.

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Beta Tester
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ppl are going to put "you not hitting it in right place" if you think that dont post a reply coz this game is RNG all the way not skill

 

The fact that people - myself included - pull >50% higher average damage figures than you out of their butt has determined this to be a lie.

 

It's an arcade game. As such, it needs to be somewhat balanced in the sense that everything can beat everything. Now, mind you, at high tiers a BB needs to screw up royally to lose against one CA.

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Beta Tester
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in what planet did you guys at WG get facts from?  a battle ship would insta kill a cruiser within 10km with 1 salvo and me and a few friends constantly only get 1140-2280 dmg on them this is a joke 

 

1 match i get 8-9 citadels then it feels like the game punnishes me for a few games later by only letting me dmg other by 1140-2280 each shell :( im not the only person im sure to feel like this ive sold my montana as it was just a loss of creds every match even on a win (and dont say WoT is the same coz no it aint i have deathstar and play it constantly and fire AP as standard and its win win win with creds even on a lose game)

 

My question is, from what orifice did you pull your "facts" about real life BBs?

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95 posts

Because aiming is not a skill?

Learn where to aim, close the distance...... simple as that.

RNG is there to balance BBs, because how fair would it be is you get clicked reliably by a BB sniping from 20kms away.

 

Aiming is a skill.

RNG is not balance. At least in current over-penalizing form.

 

Sure, sniping from 20 km and scoring a citadel every time would be OP and not balanced. But it's far from "Learn where to aim, close the distance...... simple as that."  I learned where to aim, closed distance. I even learned proper ammo and few other tricks. I'm still missing as I have missed before learning all that stuff.

 

I see no difference in overall performance. My hit ratio is almost exactly the same when I was complete noob and now, after my skill training. Why mastering skills when when everything relies on RNG? Just shoot somewhere at the target and pray that RNG looks upon you mercifully. I aimed perfectly, shoot from close range and missed 3 salvos in a row. I did everything you said I need to do. Simple as that? So why I'm still missing?

 

I'm starting to be really fed up with all that discussion about RNG in BB play. BBs need slight accuracy buff.

 

- BBs have more armor that needs balance one say. HE spam can eat half of your HP from fires only by the time you reload. Pretty balanced.

- BBs have more firepower and can destroy other smaller ships in one salvo - that needs balancing. Ok, while HE/AP spam can be done every 5 sec in a CA that massive damage from a BB is possible once every half minute. Pretty balanced. 

- BBs can shoot 15-20 km afar. DD spotting range is sub 10 km - can't shoot what I can't see. CAs are fast and maneuverable and can outmaneuver long range shots. Pretty balanced.

- BBs have... I'm out of advantages that BBs have. Yet BBs have yet another "balance" layer in form of a RNG.

 

For me every advantage BB have is already countered. This is what I call balance.

 

In that situation what matters is skill. If you are crappy BB captain who rushes alone between islands then you are easy prey for DDs. If you use HE against CAs don't be surprised that CA sinks you. But if a BB spots CA/DD at open waters, aims carefully and uses proper ammo - it means DD obliteration and heavy damage for a CA. This is what I call balance.

 

Current BB play is a lottery. I can spot lone CA, in a perfect range (50-75% of a max range), use proper positioning and ammo. But RNG says F.U. This is not balance. Skill is irrelevant. You can YOLO shoot and score a citadel, you can shoot by the book with every skill involved and still miss. RNG in current state nullifies skill. 

 

 

 

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Beta Tester
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Current BB play is a lottery. I can spot lone CA, in a perfect range (50-75% of a max range), use proper positioning and ammo. But RNG says F.U. This is not balance. Skill is irrelevant. You can YOLO shoot and score a citadel, you can shoot by the book with every skill involved and still miss. RNG in current state nullifies skill. 

 

 

 

Watch these videos. AP is really powerfull if you know how to use it.

 

"Learn to aim" is a basically call for use your brain. How powerfull skill you say? Remember aimbot at CBT? You could get citadel hits from 20km away with no problem. They didnt nerf the ability to citadel people(well kinda did after 3.1 armour mechanics joining the fight). If we would equip you with aimbot and your enemies would sail in a straight line i can promise you that battle result will have 15-20 citadels in a battleship.

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Beta Tester
950 posts

in what planet did you guys at WG get facts from?  a battle ship would insta kill a cruiser within 10km with 1 salvo and me and a few friends constantly only get 1140-2280 dmg on them this is a joke 

 

1 match i get 8-9 citadels then it feels like the game punnishes me for a few games later by only letting me dmg other by 1140-2280 each shell :( im not the only person im sure to feel like this ive sold my montana as it was just a loss of creds every match even on a win (and dont say WoT is the same coz no it aint i have deathstar and play it constantly and fire AP as standard and its win win win with creds even on a lose game)

 

Then you are just aiming poorly. Within 10km, it's rather easy to hit citadels of Cruisers, if you only manage 1-2k dmg pr salvo from a BB it's you rown fault mate.

The game does not punish you for having a good round, You don't play tier X to get credits, you play Tier X to have fun with the big boys.

 

Edit: From what i can see you have a very high hitrate, this can indicate you do not aim for Citadel, rather you aim just to hit the ship, not caring about where you hit.

Edited by Hannibalurg

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[G0LD]
[G0LD]
Alpha Tester
1,464 posts
5,529 battles

Iam really not that good with Battleships.. but despite this iam able to predict when i do hit the Citadell and when not. 
Its not that kind of a Problem. Just use your ship the way it is designed to Deal Damage.

As much as i can see.. you did well at Lower Tiers.. maybe you should just step a way back.. and think about your Gameplay from tier8 up..

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Players
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<snip>

 

Watch these videos. AP is really powerfull if you know how to use it.

 

"Learn to aim" is a basically call for use your brain. How powerfull skill you say? Remember aimbot at CBT? You could get citadel hits from 20km away with no problem. They didnt nerf the ability to citadel people(well kinda did after 3.1 armour mechanics joining the fight). If we would equip you with aimbot and your enemies would sail in a straight line i can promise you that battle result will have 15-20 citadels in a battleship.

 

 

Watched them. Multiple time to be extra sure I got everything. And I learned much from that. Changed my tactics, applied knowledge. So what? Still miss due to RNG decides all my shells go massive spread. Here lies the problem.

 

"Learn to aim" is a basically call for use your brain.

I learned. I use my brain. Today Murloc isn't the same Murloc that got in his first BB match. Sure, aimbot helps. Watched some vids how it works. But mind what tier it was. V to VII where spread isn't so tragic. If you apply all skill you somewhat are guaranteed to hit. Crit/citadel or not, doesn't matter. You actually hit something.

 

My issue is a delicate thing. I cannot be certain to actually hit no matter what I do. If I YOLO shoot I have pretty low chance to hit anything. But almost exact same chances are when I "use my brains". Due to R.F.N.G.

 

All I want is to somewhat guarantee that I hit a target when I "use my brain". I don't call for multiple citadel shots each time, every time. Simple hit is enough. It gives me at least some feedback that my skills are improving. How am I "learn to aim" when I still see miss after miss?

 

It looked like that:

Changed CA for a BB. Huzzah. Fired 2 salvos, got sunk at 3 min mark. Analysis: rushed too much and got torped. Lesson: be more patient.

New match. Staying a bit behind main lines. Spotted some planes on a map. Far away - ignored. Got 5 torps at broadside, left with fumes of HP. Lesson: pay attention to planes, even far away.

New match. Spotted lone and AFK CA, approaching. En route avoided dive bombers attack because I started to zigzag and switch speed. Bombs all missed. Fired HE at CA, 12 shells, 10 misses, minimal damage. Lesson: RNG spread shells far too much, try AP for well armored target.

Next match. Avoided narrow passages with hidden DDs. Speed and zigzag play with planes - minimal torp and bomb damage. Spotted target. Ignored as it was 11km (12 km max range). Spotted another. AP loaded, positioned so he presents wide side. Aimed at waterline. Proper heading for shells. Fire. Shells go into the silhouette, it means aimed perfectly. 1 shell hit before target. 2 shells landed on the left. 3 shells on the right. 6 missed. Wait till reload, range shortened to 6 km. He is straighline sailing. Perfect. Exact same spot shot. Result as above. Reload. 3rd salvo at straightline sailing, range 5 km. 6 shells missed.

 

Tell me. What did I wrong? I really want to know what I did wrong. Because for me, in that particular situation answer is simple: nothing. RNG just decided F.U. Plain and simple. Situation from yesterday. AP loaded, half dead CA sailing parallel, range 4 km. Full salvo at wide enemy board. 1 shell went astern, 1 dropped too short, 3 went over the target, 1 landed before the target. Total 6 missed. At 4 km range. In that shot I had exact same spread as I was shooting at 12 km.

 

This is what frustrates me the most. Lack of progress and feedback, no matter what I do. On CAs I don't have such problems. If I manage to stay alive till match ends I constantly see 80-120 hit count. Shooting 10-15km. Ten to fifteen km range and I hit targets. That are maneuvering. I can hit DDs that smoked out. I can hit targets that started to hide behind an island. I can shoot them when they emerge from behind that island. 6 km range means 85% of my shells land on target. Had that yesterday. Been shooting CV from 9 to 5 km. 7 shells a salvo. Didn't came lower than 4 shells a salvo on target. usually 5-6 hits. It was execution.

 

While BB I'm terrible. Because RNG and its F.U. It's complete lottery. Grinding for a Kongo is a PITA. I'm using brain, aiming. And all comes down to hit and wish. Will it score a hit? Nope... not this time.

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Beta Tester
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While BB I'm terrible. Because RNG and its F.U. It's complete lottery. Grinding for a Kongo is a PITA. I'm using brain, aiming. And all comes down to hit and wish. Will it score a hit? Nope... not this time.

 

Its not RNG buddy . Just because you watched those videos you arent going to have aim assist accuracy. Tell me if you were using aim assist would your shots really miss thatmuch? Do you honestly think you gave enough lead to your shots?

 

When i play BBs i usually fire too much to front or too much to back which results with missing. This isnt RNG thing. You need to understand that aiming isnt easy. Its not the same thing with wot where you fire at mostly stationed targets.

 

 

Practice is what you need right now. CBT players know more or less how to hit(i played DDs mostly so i kinda suck at aiming) but you dont.

 

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Supertest Coordinator
6,337 posts
4,389 battles

@DarthMurloc - looking at stats I managed 36k average damage and 26% hit rate with Myogi to your current 23% and 23k. Its possible you are getting killed more but it looks like I got more "use" out of her (or possibly because I kept getting "Big Race" every time - and lost!

 

The Myogi is a hugely frustrating shotgun. But again its not indicative of BBs in general. Kongo, upgrade, awesome.

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[NIKE]
Beta Tester
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The myogi I found difficult simply due to the possible spread vs low numbers of shells.

The Kongo while having a similar spread has more shells so it increases the chances of a shell actually going where you aimed. I.e. if on the Kongo if 6 shells fancied going to the moon it didn't matter as long as 2 went vaguely on target. With the myogi if 6 shells fancied going to the moon then it would be a complete miss.

 

To compound the problem, the myogi has large guns for her tier, and her enemies are squishy, meaning if a shell hits anywhere other than a citadel then it will over pen. Other tier 4 BB can get away with hitting an armoured non - citadel part and getting a high AP score, whereas the myogi simply punches through for an over pen instead.

 

For me, I used AP at range and aimed for BB as a main target: they're large so far more likely to hit, and well armoured so I'd get a good AP roll even if it wasn't a citadel. Because they don't have many squishy bits there's less chance of an over pen.

 

I teamed up with a phoenix for most of the myogi. Phoenix with AP makes short work of cruisers while I concentrated on enemy BB.

If I was forced to fight cruisers for whatever reason then I'd use HE simply because hitting one at all at 12km was more luck than judgement. If I could close the distance to about 7km I'd happily use AP as the shorter range (and therefore less dispersion) meant the shells might actually go where I wanted them, in which case I could make short work of cruisers with citadel hits.

 

The myogi to me was an odd one - although it has a large range, against anything other than BB each salvo got accompanied with "hope this one hits".

 

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Beta Tester
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Please don't post "I only get 8-9 citadels, oh woe is me" threads. :/

 

ppl are going to put "you not hitting it in right place" if you think that dont post a reply coz this game is RNG all the way not skill

 

I don't think you know what skill is if you say that.

 

Skill is more than hitrate.

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