I have a question for you all

[Shifty0303]

I've read my fair share of people calling for this and that to be nerfed, buffed etc so I thought I'd ask the following:

 

IF the issue of HE damage / Fires / HE vs AP were to be addressed by Wargaming, how would you want changes to be implemented?

 

Please note I'm not trying to cause a digital riot here, I'm merely curious as to what you think.

[StuntMan0369]

I'm pretty happy with how it works now, but if anything, have the damage dealt by fires reduced slightly. Still have it burn the same amount of time, but reduce overall damage by around 10%. This is just from personal experience, I don't find fires that debilitating. If I'm taking such a high volume of incoming fire from multiple enemies, I've done something wrong to be in that situation. I think that's the only thing that could need changing, everything else is fine imo. Feel free to debate my views or question my viewpoint on a certain topic, I love to debate things like this!

[Luckyio]

The main problem appears to be in low HP pool of low tier BBs meaning relatively high damage from HE detonation, combined with psychological aspect of "oh [edited], I'm on fire" followup even if fire doesn't actually do all that much damage. Essentially low tier BBs are a learning experience, and many appear to not like that experience.

[Rebeldad1]

I've read my fair share of people calling for this and that to be nerfed, buffed etc so I thought I'd ask the following:

 

IF the issue of HE damage / Fires / HE vs AP were to be addressed by Wargaming, how would you want changes to be implemented?

 

Please note I'm not trying to cause a digital riot here, I'm merely curious as to what you think.

 

I believe the next patch is supposed to slightly nerf the fire damage, so hang in there buddy

[ApexTitan]

Smaller cal HE does less damage so for example the Mogami would likely do more HE damage if it was using the 203mm guns, and slighly nerf the HE damage and fire damage over all.

 

Also stop HE from doing such mad amounts a module damage to things like AA guns, its not fun to loose 1/4 of you AA power when you get hit by 3 203mm HE shells, i would say give AA guns just enough HP to survive one direct hit from a 203mm gun or bellow, then you will start to loose them as you take more fire, I think the bigger AA guns can take the right amount of damage, maybe make the smaller ones closer to that.

 

Maybe there could be a active ability to repair all of your permanently destroyed batteries (main, secondary and AA) BUT it would replace your heal ability for BB's, increased AA fire for CA's, and speed boost for DD's.

[Rebeldad1]

Smaller cal HE does less damage so for example the Mogami would likely do more HE damage if it was using the 203mm guns, and slighly nerf the HE damage and fire damage over all.

 

Also stop HE from doing such mad amounts a module damage to things like AA guns, its not fun to loose 1/4 of you AA power when you get hit by 3 203mm HE shells, i would say give AA guns just enough HP to survive one direct hit from a 203mm gun or bellow, then you will start to loose them as you take more fire, I think the bigger AA guns can take the right amount of damage, maybe make the smaller ones closer to that.

 

Maybe there could be a active ability to repair all of your permanently destroyed batteries (main, secondary and AA) BUT it would replace your heal ability for BB's, increased AA fire for CA's, and speed boost for DD's.

 

The bolded  idea is interesting but would imagine they would limit it to BB's since they actually had big repair crews but hey they are going for arcade so maybe they could allow them at like tier 5 as another type of consumable.

[Kaptain_Tripps]

I don't really see what all the fuss is about HE damage and fire. Seems fine to for the most part, considering BBs can one salvo cruisers from 20km away.

 

 

I do think it's a bit overly punishing that DD's can take massive damage, set on fire and lose their engines / rudder from virtually every HE hit but that's more of a DD issue than a HE issue.

[Exozen]

I want them to add a fire extinguisher type consumeble so you dont have to use your repair kit for fires. 

 

Give it the same reload as the repair kit and there , balanced.

[Rem3mberMe]

The effect of fire and HE spam is more psychological in battleships over tier V. Under some circumstances you can be bashed realy hard by HE shells (like 4-5k in one salvo), but that occurs rarely. Most likely you will receive something like 2k dmg from a 203mm equiped CA every 10-15 seconds, which is not that devastating. One fire alone does about 300 dmg per tick and with proper skills and the premium repair party you can simply forget about it. It does dmg over time comparable with 1 average (non citadel) salvo from a BB.

Most important thing is that the engagement range of cruisers is up to 16 km. This is a comfort range for any BB over tier VI and you should be definitely able to kill a CA shooting at this distance. But once you get overwhelmed by multiple ships you are screwed. The lethality of HE spam decreases with increasing HP pool of your ship and you can pretty easily recover from intensive HE spam using the replenish HP ability because HE shells causes light damage. When using premium consumable you can recover like 25k dmg in 3 minutes. That is definitely not bad. 

[Scilya]

The effect of fire and HE spam is more psychological in battleships over tier V. Under some circumstances you can be bashed realy hard by HE shells (like 4-5k in one salvo), but that occurs rarely. Most likely you will receive something like 2k dmg from a 203mm equiped CA every 10-15 seconds, which is not that devastating. One fire alone does about 300 dmg per tick and with proper skills and the premium repair party you can simply forget about it. It does dmg over time comparable with 1 average (non citadel) salvo from a BB.

Most important thing is that the engagement range of cruisers is up to 16 km. This is a comfort range for any BB over tier VI and you should be definitely able to kill a CA shooting at this distance. But once you get overwhelmed by multiple ships you are screwed. The lethality of HE spam decreases with increasing HP pool of your ship and you can pretty easily recover from intensive HE spam using the replenish HP ability because HE shells causes light damage. When using premium consumable you can recover like 25k dmg in 3 minutes. That is definitely not bad. 

 

one fire is not a problem the thing is that with a crusder spamming he at you you will very quickly have 3 fires on you and they do do far to much damage.

also 16km is not a "comefort zone" 12km maybe but at 16km you wont hit a good cruser captin not with anything more than a shell or 2 per salvo such is how acurate bb's are and how quickly crusers can dodge

[TheJezna]

If I could have it the way I wanted, the damage model would be expanded to include what you may call temporary debuffs: Fires should indeed be problematic and cause damage. It should, however, cause very little structural damage, and mostly damage systems and crew. This should be modelled not by the current system where modules can get knocked out and is fixed on a set timer (or never, as sometimes the case with turrets for example) but by a progressive system where things get increasingly worse the more fire you suffer. Things to apply this to should be weapon training and elevation, reload times, rudder shift times, acceleration and top speed, your detection ability, accuracy etc, simulating equipment and crew getting out of action by fires and how fires make performing normal tasks more difficult. This would mean fires could cripple a ship and make it much less of a threat and easier to actually sink, but it would have a small risk of sinking a ship and it would take a very long time to do so. This would make setting enemies on fire still important, and a viable way for small ships to hamper and defend against bigger ships, but you would still need serious AP firepower or tops to actually sink things. This should be combined with a redefined system for firedighting and repairs that is less of a simple all or nothing affair.

 

I think a system lime this would improve several things, making HE and fires more balanced while also improving the dynamics between different classes, making BB's and DD's crucial for sinking things (or of course torpedo cruisers), without making cruisers impotent. Sadly however I think a major redesign like this isn't possible anymore at this point.

[Ubertron_X]

Don't know about the higher tiers as I have not passed T6 yet but from what I can tell in the lower and mid tiers there is perceived mismatch in between rate of fire, gun size and fire chance, at least for most of the US cruisers.

 

While certainly nobody will complain about getting set on fire by a Furutaka or Aoba using 203mm guns I guess it is the american bullet swarm that makes people upset. Being relentlessly shelled with pesky 150ish millimeter guns every 5 to 10 seconds by St.Loius, Phoenix, Omaha, Cleveland etc. is what is causing excessive fires and annoying most of the players.

 

I'd say fire chance at least has to be adjusted to gun size AND reload speed, in addition one can also think about amending HE damage in relation to gun size and target armor (for example an Aoba's HE shells will hit BB's for ~1000 damage whereas an AP overpenetration from a BB will also hit an Aoba for ~1000 damage, albeit at a much lower reload).

[ilhilh]

Chance of fire should be reduced.  The problem is the sheer number of shells that a cruiser can put down onto a ship is crazy high so it is relatively easy to 1) get a fire and then 2) push it to a stage 2 forcing a repair and then back up to 1 and 2 as soon as they use it.  Yesterday I had a game in my Atago where an enemy Atago hit me at about 12km with 1 salvo for a stage 2 fire and rudder damage whilst I qas turning.  I repaired as stage 2 fairly chews through your HP pool and turned the other direction.  His next salvo did a stage 3 fire and AGAIN rudder damage. In. One. Salvo.  Then a Fuso fired a broadside from 16km away at my turning ship and got 2 citadel hits meaning the stage 3 fire burned me out in seconds.  Worst game in my Atago ever.

 

Other things could include the size of the shell impacting both amount of damage per tick a ship takes and the duration of the fire - the problem with this approach would be that it would be very hard for a ship captain to figure out the severity of the fire.

 

Perhaps the chance of fire reducing if the ship is already on fire could work - realistic?  nope.  But it could help the crippling fires you get.  Then stage 2 to 3 is harder again.

 

Or perhaps reduced chance of fire for a while after using the repair option... it could represent your ship being smothered fire extinguishing liquid (so... water? but perhaps foam of some description... I don't know how they tackled ship fires back in t'day)

[Fizzy_Odin]

the main problem with fire is panic effect but thats on fault to players !!  If during the battle and the fire you act wisely and logical, then fire will not cause so much problem

[xCaptainObviousx]

What about making the fire chance decrease with every active fire? -ilhilh

 

Lighting the first fire have the chance listed in the port. Lighting the second fire have 50% of the listed chance, the third having 25% of the listed stat and the 4th only 5%. (just some example numbers)

 

We would still burn, but it would be far more manageable as we'd see less 3 and 4x fires stacked.

[Scilya]

What about making the fire chance decrease with every active fire? -ilhilh

 

Lighting the first fire have the chance listed in the port. Lighting the second fire have 50% of the listed chance, the third having 25% of the listed stat and the 4th only 5%. (just some example numbers)

 

We would still burn, but it would be far more manageable as we'd see less 3 and 4x fires stacked.

 

this is a good idea

also i would decrease the dmg of he shells in general and slightly buff the AP shells, right now cruser vs cruser still just HE spam even though they can reliably citadell with AP the reliable damage of HE is to greeat for the RNG dependent AP rounds and so the dmg of HE far surpasses AP

[Echelon2k]

I would love to see multiple things tbh :

 

1. direct HE Damage should be about half of what AP can do ( as is currently on BBs ) - imo HE should be a tool to set fires not the be all end all in terms of dealing consistent damage

2. less overpenning for AP shells ( or at least a bit more dmg on overpen. something like 15% ) except when shooting at destroyers since they have such a small heathpool.

3. fewer citadel hits. citadel hits should be sometwhat rarer so people would actually attack and not ping away at the enemy from 18-20km.

 

I think less spike damage, less reliable HE damage and more "predictable" consistent AP damage would make for much more interesting matches.

[_GDL]

Please note that I'm a relativity new player so I might not have all the details correct so this might be, to the more knowledgeable, a really really bad idea.

 

Fire damage shouldn't 'stack' but increase the timer that you are alight for. (+X seconds for each fire over the first)

 

This way, you can only be set alight once, but the duration of the fire increases with each additional fire - Again, new guy!

 

 

[Battledragon]

Please note that I'm a relativity new player so I might not have all the details correct so this might be, to the more knowledgeable, a really really ban idea.

 

Fire damage shouldn't 'stack' but increase the timer that you are alight for. (+X seconds for each fire over the first)

 

This way, you can only be set alight once, but the duration of the fire increases with each additional fire - Again, new guy!

 

 

Yes, I like this.

I would like to add, give a short cooldown after putting out a fire so you cannot be INSTANTLY set on fire again as soon as you put it out.

[EsaTuunanen]

Yesterday I had a game in my Atago where an enemy Atago hit me at about 12km with 1 salvo for a stage 2 fire and rudder damage whilst I qas turning.  I repaired as stage 2 fairly chews through your HP pool and turned the other direction.  His next salvo did a stage 3 fire and AGAIN rudder damage. In. One. Salvo...

 

Or perhaps reduced chance of fire for a while after using the repair option... it could represent your ship being smothered fire extinguishing liquid (so... water? but perhaps foam of some description... I don't know how they tackled ship fires back in t'day)

Had few similar experiencies during CBT while grinding USN cruisers.

You get hits and have soon multiple fires.

You use repair and once the next salvo hits you're again on fire.

 

 

They probably used water, more water and then some more water.

Ships even had systems for flooding magazines if fire threatened to spread into them.

On carriers fuel in planes and in fueling system was huge fire threat and obviously not so water friendly fire so they might have some foams.

At least modern carriers use also foam when plane fuel is involved in fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

 

Ship being soaked in water should definitely "coold down" the chances of ship immediately igniting again like some pile of dry grass.

[Dominico]

My problem with this isn't the mechanic which has works well even at lower tiers it's accuracy. 

 

Ias an aside I've watched captains  of low tier battleships and most will repair IMMEDIATELY upon setting on fire. Then they get more fires and have to wait 2 mind or whatever. It's a panic aspect. 

 

I only feel that the is a higher level cruiser which has massive fire output (tier 6?) It is super accurate like I saw an enemy captain hitting me with nearly every she'll are 12 or more km and that to me is a bit wrong as combined with fire % it meant you were dead when facing that ship in a group and had to focus that ship for sure. That to me is op.

 

So I think the fire mech is fine. Maybe reduce chance slightly. Maybe reduce dot slightly but accuracy of a certain cruiser at extreme range (for the cruiser) to me felt broken which accentuated fire damage seeming stupid.

[Valkyrie_7]

I'd include a temporary buff after extinguishing a fire (both via damage control or natural) that makes it less likely for that section of the ship to be set alight again due to it being probably flooded in water / foam / whatever they use to fight fire on ships.

 

Also this:

What about making the fire chance decrease with every active fire? -ilhilh

 

Lighting the first fire have the chance listed in the port. Lighting the second fire have 50% of the listed chance, the third having 25% of the listed stat and the 4th only 5%. (just some example numbers)

 

We would still burn, but it would be far more manageable as we'd see less 3 and 4x fires stacked.

 

Simply to decrease the chance of bs salvos that set your entire ship on fire, often after you just extinguished.

[Fizzy_Odin]

Ias an aside I've watched captains  of low tier battleships and most will repair IMMEDIATELY upon setting on fire. Then they get more fires and have to wait 2 mind or whatever. It's a panic aspect. 

 

 

 

thats the main problem you have, you hit repair button as your hands are burning not ship in game !!

[SaintMerc]

Regarding Fires on battle ships. I think cruiser's are to OP Regarding starting fire's . I have been playing as a battle ship. with a friend for a while but since the last patch with a rank 5 battle ship.

We have seen fire's start on our ships from just 1 round hitting us from a cruiser. Then after a repair, after many fire's you have to wait 2 min's before putting the fire out again. By this time your just about dead. This is where it becomes beyond a Joke.
IMO fire rate between a cruiser and a battle ship is to unbalanced. A cruiser can fire every 10 seconds or less yet a battle ship has to wait 30 seconds or so.

So in a sense that's 3 fires you can have, before you can hit the cruiser again as you can't put the fire's out. for another 1.30 min's after using the repair. Fire's need to be less often and more luck than any thing else. AP needs to be the damage dealer IMO.. and not HE where you can die just because of a dam fire... Realistically every crew member knows how to put a fire out, so the 2 min's wait time needs to be reduced. A battle ship being owned by a cruiser or 2 due to fires is unrealistic.
 

[Sir_Armand]

HE damage is fine IMO, Fire damage is a little bit high though.