That's it, I'm never using AP again.

[_x_Acheron_x_]

First off, it's not a whine thread, maybe im reading into this wrong and playing the game wrong, but i get the same results over and over again. I hate it. It's pointless and imo broken.

 

Example;

 

Playing as a Cleveland, got into a duel with an Aoba. He was clearly using HE only, and burnt me for 7000 damage. My logic is that at 12km, pluging fire, cruiser vs cruiser of the same tier, AP is obviously the logical step right? Nah. Even with this, i fired 4 sequential bursts, got 8 hits and did 360 damage. Even with overpenetration, thats pointless. And arguably, overpenetration at 12km is plunging, and therefore should have penetrated into something valuable.

 

At the end of the game (we lost by the way, my 7th loss in a row, ty MM), i check my damage scores.

 

 

I fired twice as much HE, yet did 16x more damage. It's an absolute no brainer to use HE all the time. I've practiced before just playing a full game with AP and then a full game with HE and every time, HE only wins in terms of damage, exp and credits.

 

I also disagree with 'overpenetration'. Im sorry, but if something is punching a hole from one side of the ship to the other, chances are it's hitting something valuable on the way through, but thats another story.

 

Yes, you might get that lovely citadel hit which scores you a sweet 11,000 damage, but is it worth it, when HE could be doing the fire damage for you, plus the explosive damage?

 

The AP seems to spike. Fine, i might hit for 11,000 in one shot, but it'll take me 12 shots to get there. The damage generated by AP is too much of a spike and needs to be evened out.

 

Unless someone comes along and tells me i'm doing something totally wrong, I'm just playing HE all the time.

[Panzerblitz]

Never apply logic in a Wargaming mmo.

[ZuupermaN]

Just know when to shoot ap and when to shoot HE...

 

BTW you also need to know where to shoot he, looks like you arent doing much damage with he.

[Leif_GG_Persson]

First of all, overpenetration is a bad thing, not a good thing. An AP shell is an armour piercing shell with an explosive payload. It is the explosives that do the damage, the shell is only there to deliver it. If the shell passes through the ship without detonating, there will be a neat little hole and not much else.

 

What you need to do is to learn when to shoot AP and when to shoot HE. With a Cleveland at 12km, HE is probably more reliable. If he had been at 7km, showing his broadside, then AP to his citadel areas is superior. Fire damage may feel like a major thing when it happens to you, but truth be told, it doesn't do that much damage to a cruiser. It does a percentage of your max HP per tick, which, for a cruiser, isn't that much. 7000 damage is one good AP salvo from an Aoba. To burn you for that much he must have landed dozens of HE shells over a long period of time. That said, I think Cleveland is a pretty crappy ship vs cruisers at more than 10km range. Try to go for battleships instead, or close the range.

[beercrazy]

am I the only one who is thinking the op needs to learn to aim?

 

he is only op due to the fires and tbh it aint nowhere near what it was like in cbt so I mix em both for whatever ship I come across

[kiteohatto]

I know that feel OP, also thinking of switching to HE until it gets nerfed, no point trying to apply skill and hope for RNG when using AP when you can just sink everything with HE and fires without effort.

[DtXpwnz]

Please shoot HE only, me like easy snacks to kill.

[_x_Acheron_x_]

am I the only one who is thinking the op needs to learn to aim?

 

he is only op due to the fires and tbh it aint nowhere near what it was like in cbt so I mix em both for whatever ship I come across

 

Can you explain to me how you 'aim' at a moving target, traveling at 30kts, at 12km? I cant wait for you guide to guaranteed citadel hits.

[Silvercat18]

I know that feel OP, also thinking of switching to HE until it gets nerfed, no point trying to apply skill and hope for RNG when using AP when you can just sink everything with HE and fires without effort.

 

 

Well, with a Cleveland, its like a machine gun. Even if he couldn't aim, by the process of random chance, it should be getting a lot more citadel hits than it apparently is in this case.

[xPraetoriaNx]

Cleveland still has 152mm guns, using AP from 12km was noobish, sorry... Only use AP from close (I'd say 8km max) AND if the target shows it's side to you perpendicularly. The Cleveland has the reload speed to be able to switch shells mid-engagement, so it's easily managable.

[Realtbhuion]

>Can you explain to me how you 'aim' at a moving target, traveling at 30kts, at 12km? I cant wait for you guide to guaranteed citadel hits. 

 

you can't have guaranteed citadel hits. rngesus and dispersion say no.

 

that said, numbers along the x axis correspond to shell flight time assuming opposite ship is travelling ~20kts.  add half the flight time again. use spacing of increments to figure out where that point lies along the x axis, cos it'll be beyond the actually listed numbers, position that point over the part of the ship you want to hit. fire.

 

not terribly difficult.

[inAbag]

#RememberTsushima tovarisch OP!

 

Glorious Socialist Fleet got defeated by dirty Imperial Japanese because they cheat and use HE! Therefore HE in game must also be of nuclear destructive power, is of historical accuracy)))))))

[TheJezna]

 

Can you explain to me how you 'aim' at a moving target, traveling at 30kts, at 12km? I cant wait for you guide to guaranteed citadel hits.

 

If he's moving in a straight line it's just a question of learning how much lead to apply. I suspect however that you mean that the target is also taking evasive action, which is where you need to try to predict those movements. Most players are maneuvering in a predictable manner if you just observe them. The Cleveland fires fast enough that you can afford not to hit every shell and "walk" your rounds onto the target. Also, don't fire full salvos, shoot each turret in turn so you can adjust continously.

 

That said, you would probably need to get a bit closer to reliably penetrate with a Cleveland, it does afterall only have 155 mm guns. The Aoba you where fighting might have done well to try AP instead though, the 203 mm guns hits much harder.

[rvfharrier]

 

Unless someone comes along and tells me i'm doing something totally wrong, I'm just playing HE all the time.

 

A replay would be handy OP, but even without one I'm just going to say you're probably doing something totally wrong. Learning when to load and when not to load AP in a ship like a Cleveland is tough and just as important as range is the profile of the target, even if you're close if he's angled to you then you might want to either fire HE or wait until he presents a flatter angle to fire your AP salvo. Like I said without a replay I can't know what you were doing, but 12 km sounds too far out to be firing AP at an Aoba in a Cleveland to me anyway, even if he was flat on. If he was angled then you've got no chance from that distance and you're going to bounce off him all day (which is probably what happened).

[AgarwaenME]

#RememberTsushima tovarisch OP!

 

Glorious Socialist Fleet got defeated by dirty Imperial Japanese because they cheat and use HE! Therefore HE in game must also be of nuclear destructive power, is of historical accuracy)))))))

 

The "glorious socialist fleet" from rather many years before the communist revolution? 

 

 

As for the Cleveland, it's got 152mm guns which has terrible penetration, so of course it's not going to be reliably getting citadels at any range on any target. AP is highly situational, and mostly only usable on lightly armoured targets showing their broadside to you at close range (t5/6 or lower cruisers and the atlanta). So much like for DDs, HE is your default choice. And this isn't "bad", it just is. Requiring you to change during battle to suit the circumstances (even changing for the same target based on how its angle is, and thus the skill by the target in not allowing itself to be easily citadeled) is part of the skill requirement of the game.

[Kaptain_Tripps]

 

Can you explain to me how you 'aim' at a moving target, traveling at 30kts, at 12km? I cant wait for you guide to guaranteed citadel hits.

 

12km is perfect range for firing HE at your targets, don't switch to AP until 8km or less. Also with the Cleveland's little pop guns it doesn't take much angling to cause bounces but the quick reload means it is extremely easy to switch your fire as required.

 

If this is too complicated by all means stick to firing HE all the time, should work out great for you at later tiers.

[allufewig]

Sorry, player fail. 12km is far too much distance for using AP on anything in Cleveland. The shell arc of that ship prevents the use of AP in all but the farthest (at ~16km they come in at the target almost vertically) and shortest distances (~7-8km and lower).

 

Funny thing is, in one thread about the Cleveland, Tuccy ( some WG dude) gave the advice to use AP at that distances the OP tried. I wonder if he ever played the ship, because within 9-14km enemies are completely in the immunity-zone for AP. No matter if the shell hits belt or deck, the angle of fire almost 100% prevents any penetration even on ships with basically no armor.

[True_Winterfeld]

allufewig got it right. Max range and short to mid range for AP against targets they can penetrate. You can even shot DDs at short range with AP. Does more damage, anyway I do it and I am happy with the results. Anything else HE. Also lighting them up and then switching to AP is a good thing.

 

For me the Cleveland is the Saint Louis at Tier 6, only with much better AA. 12 barrels that fire 7.5 shots per minute? You are f*cking kidding me!

[69thBuLLeT]

I actually cringed looking at one of my match results last night.

 

130 HE hits. 40k damage.

At least I did 40k more in fire damage 

 

Point is that the Cleveland is great for burst damage vs light targets, but better at DOT vs big heavy armoured targets. Play the long game.

[Eviscerador]

 

Can you explain to me how you 'aim' at a moving target, traveling at 30kts, at 12km? I cant wait for you guide to guaranteed citadel hits.

 

If the target is 180 m long and 20 m high, it is easier that you can imagine.

 

Use your first salvo as marker, use sequential fire, move a bit the aiming reticle between fires and remember how many marks in the binocular view you left in each shot, between the bow and the center. Look where they hit. Next broadside will be dead center under the stacks (+ RNG, but in cruisers is not very high)

 

Also, hitting with AP is an art. You need to know when you can score citadels and when not, and at least you have fast firing cannons, and a really good citadel in the cleveland.

 

But if you don't fire AP, you will lose all duels against IJN cruisers, or you will burn to death even to a small Kuma or Phoenix.

[Admiral_noodle]

Please shoot HE only, me like easy snacks to kill.

 

Agree. I love cruiser players who don't know how and when to switch ammo, can't aim and play poorly. Boosts my stats. 

 

Get real OP. AP at the right time in the right circumstance is vastly superior to HE. Pensacola nicely finished a Cleveland last night thanks to AP in less than a minute. 

 

But sure. Fire HE all the time!

[Snowman79]

I only use AP in Cleveland vs other cruisers from a short distance (up to 7-8 km) and also the enemy CA must be showing its side to me...it's very effective due to rate of fire and decent accuracy. In other cases HE is the ammo of choice.

 

P.S. If Aoba had half of a brain he would use AP on you and killed you in a minute with those big guns.

[MadC4T]

> can't get Citadel hits on IJN Cruisers

Someone please close this Topic.

[Frank_F_B]

AP rules. YOU SMELL THAT, YOU SMELL THAT!! CITADEL PENETRATION SON! Smells like....... victory

[RAMJB]

Then you'll never get things like this:

 

That's roughly 70% of the health of a Kuma in a single volley. Granted, those are 3 citadels with 203mm, and the 203mm AP does a crapload of damage. But if you know when to switch to AP in your cleveland you'll be scoring 4-5 per broadside. I've seen full health murmanks literally vaporizing under the stream of citadels my cleve's AP was achieving.

 

but of course you need to know at which ranges to fire AP, and at which not.