Getting ppl less toxic

[Takru]

Stubled across this article and thought it might be worth sharing here. Although it's a few years old, it could be useful for Wargaming as well.

 

Feel free to post similar ideas / articles.

 

http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/17/3515178/the-league-of-legends-team-of-scientists-trying-to-cure-toxic

 

Inside League of Legends developer Riot Games is a team of more than 30 staffers trying to make the experience of playing their game kinder, gentler, more honorable and less "toxic."

 

Team Player Behavior, a roughly six-month-old division of Riot, has implemented measures designed to reduce toxic behavior like negative chat, offensive language, and verbal abuse. And while toxic behavior and online gaming often go hand-in-hand, says League of Legends producer Carl Kwoh, "We've looked at our own game and said 'This is not a great experience and we want to try to handle this problem.'"

 

"We're never going to come to a place where there's no toxicity in League of Legends," says Jeffrey "Dr. Lyte" Lin, lead designer of social systems at Riot. "We're never going to get there. But we're finding different strategies [for situations where] if toxic behavior happens, how do we shield players from it? How do we reduce the frequency of it?"

 

Lin is a longtime hardcore gamer, he says, a dedicated EverQuest player who has since logged thousands of games of League of Legends.

"I was doing my PhD and [Riot Games president and CEO Marc Merrill and Brandon Beck] came to me and said, for years, we've been getting griefed, trolled, and harassed. And we think that this is a problem that we want to try to solve. They said, if you came to Riot we'll give you whatever you want.

"This is a dream job for any scientist."

"We want to show other companies and other games that it is possible to tackle player behavior and with certain systems and game design tools, we can shape players to be more positive."

 

One of Riot's experiments in curbing negative behavior was a simple one: turning off all-player chat as a default. Players had to opt-in to it. Prior to the experiment, Riot says that more than 80 percent of player chat was "extremely negative," compared to 8.7 percent positive.

A week later, after turning off all-player chat as the default, many players still opted in, but behavior changed. According to Riot, negative chat saw a decrease by 32.7 percent. Positive chat went up, by 34.5 percent. A drop in offensive language and verbal abuse was also observed.

 

Riot has instituted other, more complex measures designed to reduce toxicity. The biggest impact, Lin tells Polygon, has come from the recently introduced "Honor" initiative. The Honor system encourages positive player behavior by allowing players to commend allies and opponents for excellence in teamwork, friendliness, helpfulness, and honor in victory or defeat.

 

"The average player in the game is not toxic or positive, they're neutral," Lin says. Because the Honor system allows players to praise other players for their actions "we're able to nudge them a little toward the positive."

 

Lin says the Honor initiative, which went live just weeks ago, is in its first phase and will continue to evolve.

"We know in psychology that a new feature will go out and gets a spike of interest, but behavior slowly goes back to normal and then habituates," he says. "We have a lot of plans to reinfuse energy into the system, but we can't talk about it just yet."

 

Riot Games says that its Tribunal system, which fields reports of negative player behavior, and metes out warnings and bans, is just as important in combating negativity. It's important that players get feedback on how they behave online, which is reflected in Reform Cards that document chatlogs and team scores from player reports.

 

"Concise, quick feedback can shape behavior more positively."

 

"When Reform Cards went live," Lin says "I actually got an email from a 10-year-old boy who said 'Dr. Lyte, this is the first time somebody has told me that I can't say that word online. I'm really sorry and I'll never do it again.' I showed that to the team and I said 'Can you guys see the difference you're making in peoples' lives? This is not about games anymore, you guys are impacting these players ."

 

Lin says his team reached out to that young player with a reward, a rare skin for League of Legends, that delighted the punished player, turning his negative experience into a positive one.

 

Ultimately, Riot says, "what we want is for League of Legends to have the most sportsmanlike community in core competitive games."

[moth_hunter]

Ultimately, Riot says, "what we want is for League of Legends to have the most sportsmanlike community in core competitive games."

 

Well, unfortunately it looks like what Wargaming ultimately wants is not having to bother with it. That's why they gave us these nice trash cans labled "report player", and said their part is done with that.

[simonmd]

Yup, when I joined I was shocked by some of the 'normal' behavior in chat and even had someone continue it AFTER a game via private PM, being very nasty and threatening indeed but when I started a thread about it here, THEIR actions were defended by most of the people who replied here! It seems after submitting a few support tickets to WG that they don't want to know either, i'm afraid it just seems to be the culture around here and many have suggested that it comes from WoT players. 

All we can do is moderate ourselves, the report system is either useless or overwhelmed. 

[ARM505]

I'd be surprised if WG paid even as much as lip service to this kind of thing, and totally shocked if they actually, you know, did anything. They seem content with creating bot-like responses to these kind of things based on fairly lax rules applied by the system - no human involvement, no humans to pay to do this kind of thing you know....LOL can afford a team of 30, and reap the rewards with greater player retention. WG....a team of 5 or so, but I can't see it happening. It could be worse - it could be like Gaijin, who seem to pay a team of 5 to make the community more toxic

 

[Mehmeds]

They dont care about players behaviour, not the fact, that alot of players might quit. More players will come, after all warships are novelty. They only care for you to purchase some dubloons and ships before you quit. 

[Scilya]

this is the internet,.. if you want to be a special snowflake that never wants to see and hear bad things then lock yourself in a room forever. grow a bit of a skin.

you do not even need to acknowlage people in chat you dont have to look at chat if you do not want to.

[beani5003]

seriously?

This is a game where the objective is to crush, kill and destroy other people, and you're expecting nice happy thoughts and attitude? Get real.

its this kind of mentality that has people huddled behind island to affraid to come out and fight.

Online gaming and, well, the internet in general really, is a place Darwin would be proud of. If you dont know want the hell you are doing, are not good enough etc etc, you'll get your arse torn out. Hand-holding and platitudes will not make people improve.

Granted, you get w***ers every now and then, but that goes for RL just as much for in game, why do you people expect anything else?

 

To the guy that said people "may" quit over being called a few nasty names or whatever, then they obviously dont belong in competative online gaming.

[Ast3lan]

Tell that to the Dota Team Op. People have been wanting a fix for the toxic Chat for years and no manner of honour System has managed to make the situation better.

 

The option here is to turn Chat off.

[ero_sk]

What I'm going to say will definitely meet opposition but... why not to express my own opinion?

 

I'm not a big fan of the game nor a good player. I'm not even sure if I can claim that I'm average. I play maybe 2-3 matches a day, round 4 days a week. I like playing WoWs though simply because I have mental work and the game such as WoWs is a nice, brainless activity to give my head a rest after all day of thinking. "What??!! BRAINLESS? You n00b! This game requires thinking and skill, you're just a n00b so you claim this game to be brainless!!!!!!!!" one will want to shout at me now. But if anybody thinks that this game requires thinking and skill in vast extent then you really don't know much about real brain-demanding games. Does it mean I want to say this game is bad? Of course not! As I already stated it's a great game after a day of work.

 

But what does it have to do with the subject of this thread? Well as I stated  I don't play this game too much, I don't care if I will show off or get defeated quickly (of course it's always nice feeling to perform well and win!). Moreover I always try to be the same over the internet as in real life- don't offend people, keep personal culture at some decent level etc. The problem of this and many other games is that many people are completely opposite. First they treat games like one of the most important things in their lifes, and sadly this certainly is true in many cases- children under 16 or older people (event people over 20!) who can't find in their lifes more interesting things to care about. Instead they put so much focus and effort into games treating them as the most valuable things in their lifes. The result? Bunch of players that are stripped off real life involving activites, interpersonall skills and in many cases lacking decent education (both in term of schools as well as parental) whom higher values are limited to games. If such person starts to lose or is in a team that is losing then the easiest thing to do is to blame others of course. Along with lack of personal culture and respect to others the frustration is expressed by cursing at others. Can we blame children for such behaviour? Well, they have brains so yes, they should be aware of what they're doing (you know that guy hidden under the nickname you curse so much at is a real person, right?) but the people to take real blame are their parents. But people over 16 who behave like children? Well, there is no hope for them IMHO...

 

Ok, now you can attack me for this heresy on gaming forum. Remember it's just my opinion though which I will strongly defend. Another higher value worth to learn by the way...

[Mangrey]

there is a system in this game allready where you can give a  complete another player, good play .... assist in chat and so on 

 

Mang

[Glaukenstucken]

seriously?

This is a game where the objective is to crush, kill and destroy other people, and you're expecting nice happy thoughts and attitude? Get real.

its this kind of mentality that has people huddled behind island to affraid to come out and fight.

Online gaming and, well, the internet in general really, is a place Darwin would be proud of. If you dont know want the hell you are doing, are not good enough etc etc, you'll get your arse torn out. Hand-holding and platitudes will not make people improve.

Granted, you get w***ers every now and then, but that goes for RL just as much for in game, why do you people expect anything else?

 

To the guy that said people "may" quit over being called a few nasty names or whatever, then they obviously dont belong in competative online gaming.

 

I don't think it's any use argue with this level of ignorant stupidity and lack of consideration for people that coexist in the same user interface while sharing a bit of their hard earned spare time playing a game.

So this is not an argument, just an opinion to act a small counter weight.

 

I have worked with soldiers, seamen and officers all my working life and the only place in real life I have come across anything near the level of verbal abuse that I have found in on line wargames, was when I visited a juvenile correction facility.

Profanities and curses add nothing positive to the overall gaming experience in general and I'm confident it doesn't improve competitiveness either.
In my own experience, I have found to the contrary, that most abusive players are the bottom layer when it comes to combat effectiveness.

 

In all sorts of social networking there are rules for behavior, not in the form of a decree from higher powers, but from the experience that interactions between human beings have a better chance of being constructive if people don't go on calling each other f**cking C*nts.
If these rules are not upheld the experience of the many will suffer from the actions of the abusive few.

 

In the wargaming.net environment the rules are there, I have seen no signs that they are being governed.

 

[ero_sk]

seriously?

This is a game where the objective is to crush, kill and destroy other people(...)

 

With all respect- read my previous post. The objective of this game is to defeat the oponent, not other person. If you can't see the difference, then you classify as one of those people I wrote about. In addition the objective is to defat (kill? destroy? what do you mean?) virtual oponent- there is no excuse for improper behaviour on chat. This is just a game, deal with it. There are more important things in the life to care about.

 

its this kind of mentality that has people huddled behind island to affraid to come out and fight.

You click left mouse button, not fight. Once again, deal with it.

[beani5003]

 

With all respect- read my previous post. The objective of this game is to defeat the oponent, not other person. If you can't see the difference, then you classify as one of those people I wrote about. In addition the objective is to defat (kill? destroy? what do you mean?) virtual oponent- there is no excuse for improper behaviour on chat. This is just a game, deal with it. There are more important things in the life to care about.

 

its this kind of mentality that has people huddled behind island to affraid to come out and fight.

You click left mouse button, not fight. Once again, deal with it.

 

and who is the oponent? a person, pyscological warfare is a thing, get them so wound up and mad or hurt and emotional that they make mistakes is a valid tactic. as you said, its a game, if you get wound up be reading a few bad words, you should have a look at whether your suitable for online gaming. i mean for the love everything holy, its text on a screen from people that you dint know, have no way of knowing and most likely live 100's, if not 1000's of miles away from you. grow a god damn spine.

Fighting in a virtual world is still fighting, as i said, just because your not on the ship itself, doesn't mean you have to be thinking pleasent thoughts.

Its this idea that enforced niceness is a good thing, its not, what do you prepose? censorship? lets be sensible, if you wilting flowers cant take reading a few bad words, then their should be an option to turn your chat off. simple solution.

[Frank_F_B]

Only white trailer trash are bad mannered, too bad they all have to play online games.The point being made "it is an online game" is a strange one. So because you are anonymously you are allowed to behave like a Neanderthal? WG should take appropriate action against these low life's who like to ruin the game with their bad attitude. And yes I don't  trust the penalty system either

[ero_sk]

and who is the oponent? a person, pyscological warfare is a thing(...)

 

As I said- if you put oponent, enemy, defeating, destroying and killing into one basket then you are just exactly one of those people I say about. You can't abstract your thoughts, you can't see the difference. There is no point to carry on this discussion between us two as we are in two compeltely different worlds, example:

 

Fighting in a virtual world is still fighting,(...)

You say it is, I say it's not. It's just an impression made by people who spend most of their life on playing games to build up their egos by thinking that they are actually fighting, they are doing something others should admire them for. Sad true is- nobody cares (apart from themselves).

 

You're trying to convince others that this virtual entertainment is- to some degree, comparable to real life fighting but at the same time you claim the right to abuse others as if they weren't real life entities. Go ahead then, go out and start cursing at people on the street! And if you could do so, then you're not worh all the time I spent replying to you. You just don't understand (or don't want to admit) that there are people out there who can behave the same way in online game as they would in real life, i.e. be cultural and show some signs of inteligence.

 

Plus if you say that competition is enough to allow people to abuse others, why in all sport disciplines such behaviour is penalised? Just imagine tennis/snookers/whatever match were players curse at each other and the judge says "Very good, you express your will to fight! Congrats!".

 

Berk62

WG should take appropriate action against these low life's(...)

Let's face it- it's not gonna happen. WG doesn't see abusers, they see income of profit (as the more seriously people take this game, the more likely they are to spend their money on it).

 

[eldmm]

 

I don't think it's any use argue with this level of ignorant stupidity and lack of consideration for people that coexist in the same user interface while sharing a bit of their hard earned spare time playing a game.

So this is not an argument, just an opinion to act a small counter weight.

 

I have worked with soldiers, seamen and officers all my working life and the only place in real life I have come across anything near the level of verbal abuse that I have found in on line wargames, was when I visited a juvenile correction facility.

Profanities and curses add nothing positive to the overall gaming experience in general and I'm confident it doesn't improve competitiveness either.
In my own experience, I have found to the contrary, that most abusive players are the bottom layer when it comes to combat effectiveness.

 

In all sorts of social networking there are rules for behavior, not in the form of a decree from higher powers, but from the experience that interactions between human beings have a better chance of being constructive if people don't go on calling each other f**cking C*nts.
If these rules are not upheld the experience of the many will suffer from the actions of the abusive few.

 

In the wargaming.net environment the rules are there, I have seen no signs that they are being governed.

 

 

Very good point.

 

I think even the introduction of an 'ignore' button (essentially a spam filter) which mutes comments and ensures you won't be paired with a player in future battles would be of huge benefit to the community and the game itself. As it stands right now the majority of games have very little chat or that one angry person. Chat is just not a place many players want to be, which really defeats not only the point to social gaming but also the potential for teamwork (a perceived lack of which is, ironically the source of much of the toxicity)

 

Every so often there is a match where 3 or 4 people work together via chat and the game often ends with a win, but always involves a good (and fun) battle however it's not unusual that  the person in a match who first says ' gl hf ' is the ineffectual dead guy hollering at team-mates a few minutes later. NO-one leaves a battle rife with noob-bombs with any sense of team accomplishment and I would suggest many people won't get sucked into a chat which will probably end in petty name-calling because, well, what's the point? 

 

If there isn't a change in the environment, the game could end up being a single player XP grind where you incidentally play alongside and against other players which would be a shame because when people work together the game is alot of fun.

 

 

[beani5003]

 

Very good point.

 

I think even the introduction of an 'ignore' button (essentially a spam filter) which mutes comments and ensures you won't be paired with a player in future battles would be of huge benefit to the community and the game itself. As it stands right now the majority of games have very little chat or that one angry person. Chat is just not a place many players want to be, which really defeats not only the point to social gaming but also the potential for teamwork (a perceived lack of which is, ironically the source of much of the toxicity)

 

Every so often there is a match where 3 or 4 people work together via chat and the game often ends with a win, but always involves a good (and fun) battle however it's not unusual that  the person in a match who first says ' gl hf ' is the ineffectual dead guy hollering at team-mates a few minutes later. NO-one leaves a battle rife with noob-bombs with any sense of team accomplishment and I would suggest many people won't get sucked into a chat which will probably end in petty name-calling because, well, what's the point? 

 

If there isn't a change in the environment, the game could end up being a single player XP grind where you incidentally play alongside and against other players which would be a shame because when people work together the game is alot of fun.

 

 

 

team work doesn't exist because its not rewarded, i'd even go so far to say that it's penalised, as a CA that provides AA cover for a BB/CV would be getting a significantly lower xp/credit income than a CA that went in guns blazing. You will never see the kind of team play that this kind of game is geared towards unless every player on a team knows each other, is on voice comms and knows what their jobs are.

This game, wot and similar games, is already a single player game, on the asian server (i think it is) team work is a lot more prevailent, dont ask me why, but it is.

Their is no reason to have a go at your own team mates, at all, the other guys are fair game, so i support a filter, mute or whatever. Im surprised that their isn't one of them already, or an opt out of chat in the settings.

this so called "toxicity" is nothing specific to WoWs, hell i come from playing EvE Online, where backstabbing, betrayel and spying is common place, where things that are done to each other that i are cringe worthy and downright bloody horrible. so as i have said before, a few harsh words in chat are nothing. call me desensitised to it, but seriously, its not like you're having something that yo uhave worked litrally weeks/months to get is blwon up before your eyes and you will not get it back.

[Seafort]

 

and who is the oponent? a person, pyscological warfare is a thing, get them so wound up and mad or hurt and emotional that they make mistakes is a valid tactic. as you said, its a game, if you get wound up be reading a few bad words, you should have a look at whether your suitable for online gaming. i mean for the love everything holy, its text on a screen from people that you dint know, have no way of knowing and most likely live 100's, if not 1000's of miles away from you. grow a god damn spine.

Fighting in a virtual world is still fighting, as i said, just because your not on the ship itself, doesn't mean you have to be thinking pleasent thoughts.

Its this idea that enforced niceness is a good thing, its not, what do you prepose? censorship? lets be sensible, if you wilting flowers cant take reading a few bad words, then their should be an option to turn your chat off. simple solution.

 

And what's your excuse when it's their own team mates that are being abusive to their own side?

 

There is no excuse for the abusive language used in online competitive games. Learn some self control and maybe support your team mates instead of berating them. Everyone makes mistakes it's how you deal with them that makes you a better person.

 

If people actually supported one another in team based games we'd do a whole lot better as a team than hurling abuse at them. Once the swearing and insults starts the team has already lost.

 

Maybe you should remember that for next time you're being an [edited].

[beani5003]

 

And what's your excuse when it's their own team mates that are being abusive to their own side?

 

There is no excuse for the abusive language used in online competitive games. Learn some self control and maybe support your team mates instead of berating them. Everyone makes mistakes it's how you deal with them that makes you a better person.

 

If people actually supported one another in team based games we'd do a whole lot better as a team than hurling abuse at them. Once the swearing and insults starts the team has already lost.

 

Maybe you should remember that for next time you're being an [edited].

 

i dont condone it being used against your own team mates, that would be stupid, as i said in the post above yours, i view it as a weapon to use (probably biased due to my gaming history and long term exposure to EvE Online), so why would you turn it on your own team, it makes no sense and should be combated.

I actually dont use it myself, as i've found that the WoWs, as opposed to EvE Online, playerbase gets butthurt rather . . .  quickly, and WG, unlike CCP, would actually ban you for it, so its not worth doing it in my opinion as i have sunk money into the game. Saying that, i do see the value in it.

[rigawe]

By the way, anyone know a way/mod to turn off the chat already?

[Armoured_Underpants]

I do get into arguments with people in the chat and I do use swearwords sometimes...however, I usually only get to that stage after very politely pointing out something on the mini-map/asking for help/describing an imminent-evolving situation...and getting completely ignored. I don't go straight into a rage even at that point, I may type "Guys look at the map" I may add "FFS" then the stupid replies start to come back.

If some one asks for help/points something out 99% of the time I see it, I'll acknowledge 'ok' or advise what to do till I get there if I'm in a position to do so. If I don't see it or see it 30 seconds too late I Apologise  ....surprisingly....this is usually met with a 'np' or 'thanks at least you tried' even if it doesn't work out, if it does then all is fine & dandy.

When some one goes into a rage because of understandable frustration, I don't ever feel the need to belittle them, report them or wind them up even more & this I find is the main 'type' I see or experience. If you see some one getting into a rage and you can see how it happened even though he might not be getting his point across in the best possible way...either keep out of it or try to calm them down. Don't make things worse by being a dipsh*t troll of the worst kind and if you are offended by seeing the F word or similar...seriously...don't play online games.

[Admiral_noodle]

You know, have a go at WG and anyone else if you like... But in the end you can choose to ignore the chat.

 

Would be nice if there was something like the OP suggested but I'm sure it's low on the list.

[Hurme_Ulina]

I've yet to encounter such toxic players than in the League. Ranked matches there were something really disgusting, when someone failed the whole team started  accusing them which usually led to faster defeats. Maybe couple of encouraging words would've work wonders? These games are meant to play as a team not as individuals, so by being toxic towards your team you just lower your chances to win. 

[Isitari]

To be honest I've found this game far less toxic than WoT. I put that down to 3 things:

 

1. Large number of people still playing from Alpha and CBT. 95% of us were constructive and helpful and I sent reports (with screenshots) in of anybody being extremely rude / unpleasant etc. 

2. No XVM type mod, I used it in WoT at higher tiers and it could make me look at disgust at some of the players (rather shamefully I admit). It makes people less likely to instantly judge you before you even start playing which is good for the better players (primaried less early) and the not so good so they don't get told various unpleasant things.

3. The game is conducive to more chilled out playing, your actions per minute are quite small even when there are very very intense moments. So less aggressive times mean less aggressive players and types of players playing the game. 

 

Please please guys keep reporting people. Use the good ones as much if not more! I try to make myself use up all my positive ones every time I play. For the total idiots who say all those unpleasant things,  screenshot it and send it to the GMs. They do respond . 

[moth_hunter]

This is a game where the objective is to crush, kill and destroy other people, and you're expecting nice happy thoughts and attitude? Get real.

its this kind of mentality that has people huddled behind island to affraid to come out and fight.

 

You really need to learn the difference between a game and real life. This isn't a fight for your life or liberty or anything, it's a f'ing game, and if you can't play nice with others stick to playing with yourself.

I'm sick of people trying to justify inexcusable behaviour towards fellow players with the setting of the game. It doesn't matter if the game is about sinking virtual ships, shooting virtual soldiers or breeding virtual rainbow ponies. It is a game. The only thing real about it are the other players.