Do you prefer longer matchmaking wait?

[mobiusx02]

 

I know there has been more than enough posts about mm and we all know what players have said about it. So I am not going to post any particular mm or discuss it.

 

I personally split the complaint about balancing mechanism into three parts:

1. Balancing factors (which I will explain further down)

2.Which tier ship in which tier game (http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18094-matchmaker/)

3.Division

 

The last two point can be easily understood and in fact my post is not about them, because I think they are more complex problems and talking about them without any statistic form the game won’t make much sense.

 

So not taking into account of whether a T3 ship in T5 game is fair to that individual player or not or anything like that and without any divisions, a match with same number of ships within different class and same ship tier within the class (for example, both team have 4 bbs, and both team’s bbs have tier 6,5,5,4 makes the bb class balanced) would be a fair and balanced game for each team.

 

This kind of mm is clearly not what we are getting so often, and the balancing factors did the job. One team have no cv, so give the other team two more bb instead, one team have higher tier bbs, so give the other team higher tier cas instead. Those kind of things I call them balancing factor and no matter how good those factors are, they will introduce imbalance.

 

I am now on T6 and get 9/10 instant mm at peek time, it seems to me that wg is using as many balancing factors as possible to make the mm fast and I don’t get the point. (Longer queue gives bigger player pool for mm thus more balanced team) I also play other online team games requiring mm, for a 20 min match, 1-2 min avg waiting is totally acceptable to me, particularly if that means a well balanced and enjoyable match.

 

My point is those factors are abused right now and should only be used when the queue is getting too long. Also there should be a target avg waiting time (not something like 5 sec or as fast as possible!).

 

I know the game is in beta and mm maybe is in testing, but there are players paying you MONEY, so at least say something? (Or have they said something in case I missed?)

 

P.S. Is this instant mm also the case on higher tier? And is this the case in other wg games?

 

[YukiEiriKun]

MM works mostly fine. Most hickups are because of fail-divisions. Other than that, stop staring the lineup too much. Sometimes you'll get unfavourable Mm and some times you get very favourable one. I don't hear people whining that they are in top tier BB without CV's. And I've had many of those as well.

 

If you want mirror teams, go play co-op.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

lol most of time i wait 4-5 min and still get not that balanced teams and it sux

[BiL]

Ahhhh the famous MM ... for me at the current state of WoWS the biggest problem is us, the players, since WoWS is the most team depended game of 3 (WoT, WoWP, WoWS) so I prefer to get on a battle quick even if the MM is not balanced (for the record, did you ever see a balanced MM in one of the 3 titles?) and not wasting my time waiting on the queue.

[YukiEiriKun]

lol most of time i wait 4-5 min and still get not that balanced teams and it sux

Pehaps you should try .. something else than CV's? ;)

*runs and hides from the TB onslaught heading towards him*

[mobiusx02]

MM works mostly fine. Most hickups are because of fail-divisions. Other than that, stop staring the lineup too much. Sometimes you'll get unfavourable Mm and some times you get very favourable one. I don't hear people whining that they are in top tier BB without CV's. And I've had many of those as well.

 

If you want mirror teams, go play co-op.

I agree there are unfavourable mm and very favourable one which is another style of fair. But I just personally prefer well balanced team kind of fair.

And no, not co-op lol.

 

lol most of time i wait 4-5 min and still get not that balanced teams and it sux

 

I see, possibly not much wg can do on high tier since there are not enough population there.

[mobiusx02]

Ahhhh the famous MM ... for me at the current state of WoWS the biggest problem is us, the players, since WoWS is the most team depended game of 3 (WoT, WoWP, WoWS) so I prefer to get on a battle quick even if the MM is not balanced (for the record, did you ever see a balanced MM in one of the 3 titles?) and not wasting my time waiting on the queue.

 

I had a game in T6 IJN CV on the map that ships spawn at four corner. The enemy full bomber T8 IJN CV decided to take out me in the first run and I through this game is possibly going to be end here for me. Then an honourable CA saved me by taking half of the torps which would hit me and I managed to take out the enemy CV with the other T6 US CV in the first run. I had an enjoyable game and win thanks to that CA (he didn’t score much but likely saved the team).

 

I do hope there will be more of this kind of players who care about the team.

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

If I understood the mm mechanics in that vid that explained mm for WOT correct, mm takes ships and puts them into teams as they come in.

Can anyone confirm that?

 

Because, if that is indeed correct, this is - excuse me saying this as a non-programmer - the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

I would make mm put those ships into a "bag" until the bag is full (24 ships) and _then_ divide them as equal as possible.

6 CA? --> 3 in each team

4 of the CA are Clevelands? --> 2 in each team

3 Kawachis? --> 1 in on the other 2 in the other team

 

Edit: This goes for divisions too. Haven´t seen this myself, only in screenshots, where one team had 2 TIX/X divs and the other had two TVII/VIII divs.

 

That kind of stuff

lol most of time i wait 4-5 min and still get not that balanced teams and it sux

 

I seem to remember that in CBT, there was this line in the MM screen, reading: "If you wait too long, choose a different ship"

Might help in open beta too

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Because, if that is indeed correct, this is - excuse me saying this as a non-programmer - the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

I would make mm put those ships into a "bag" until the bag is full (24 ships) and _then_ divide them as equal as possible.

 

Having equal amounts of all classes in both teams would be boring as hell.

 

Putting them randomly is what keeps the game interesting.

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

Oh, then why bother with MM at all?

Just throw ships in the game as they come in.

 

T1 ind a T10 match? Hey, that´s what makes it interesting.

 

Seriously though, a match doesn´t get interesting because one team has more DD/CA/BB or CV than the other team, it gets interesting because of the stuff people (as compared to bots) are doing.

If a game is designed in a way that a balanced set-up is boring, there is something inherently wrong with the game.

[Mimos_A]

I wouldn't mind to wait a bit longer for a smart MM. That said, I don't care too much about 'this team has 2 cv, we have only one' and that sort of stuff. I do care about being able to play a part in the action. Being thrown into a game within seconds and finding out you're the only tier 3 ship in a tier 6 game while sailing an unupgraded Kawachi is not fun and does not make sense, I just got blown out of the water from well beyond my range without the speed to do anything about it. It would be nice if the upgrade status of your ship would be taken into account, because it does matter a lot and some ships are very useless when they get into higher tier games when not upgraded.

[Hannibalurg]

Matchmaking is fine 95% of the players got around 50% winrate. Sometimes you get a good matchup, other times less good. Stop bitching about this please.

 

Just need to do something with the fail divisions. T8 queing with tier 1-2-3...

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

If a game is designed in a way that a balanced set-up is boring, there is something inherently wrong with the game.

 

No, if a game is designed in such a way that all classes must be balanced for it to be fun, then there is something inherently wrong with the game.

 

A good player of any class can defeat a bad same tier opponent of any other class. This means amount and type of classes shouldn't matter.

 

The exception is the CVs which due to scouting can ruin the day for all ships that rely on stealth ( all carrying torpedoes ), and they are already limited severly in MM so that is no issue.

[EsaTuunanen]

A good player of any class can defeat a bad same tier opponent of any other class. This means amount and type of classes shouldn't matter.

That works only as long as MM gives other team also same tier/similarly weak in capabilities ships... which it doesn't do.

Or neither it does give those "substandardly performing" players to enemy team's own disadvantage to balance its superior ships.

 

For example Tier 3 Wickes is plain useless against mostly T4-5 enemy team.

Only ships it could harm are IJN DDs and those can easily evade it, because of being able to detect it before being themselves detected, or just keep it spotted until his team's cruisers/BBs blow it out of water without it ever having chance to shoot torps back.

Also that T3 Kawachi outranged by every opponent (except those stealth torping IJN DDs) doesn't help really any.

 

Or how about enemy getting T7 IJN CV (against your CVless mostly T5 team) while your team gets almost cruiser long detectability Sims with short range torps.

But you probably think that BB can counter highly stealthy IJN DD...

Or that DD can magically teleport behind enemy DDs and cruisers to kill its superior BBs/CVs.

[mobiusx02]

 

Having equal amounts of all classes in both teams would be boring as hell.

 

Putting them randomly is what keeps the game interesting.

 

Matchmaking is fine 95% of the players got around 50% winrate. Sometimes you get a good matchup, other times less good. Stop bitching about this please.

 

Just need to do something with the fail divisions. T8 queing with tier 1-2-3...

 

Variation is good, not saying the team has to be mirror. Sometime favourable to one side and sometime the other side is ok, just some mm are too favourable to one side. Those mm don’t break the win rate since you have equal chance of being favoured or not, but can make one annoyed. They should be reduced, particular at peek time when there are enough players in mm pool.

[YukiEiriKun]

1) That works only as long as MM gives other team also same tier/similarly weak in capabilities ships... which it doesn't do.

2) Or neither it does give those "substandardly performing" players to enemy team's own disadvantage to balance its superior ships.

3) Also that T3 Kawachi outranged by every opponent (except those stealth torping IJN DDs) doesn't help really any.

 

1) But you have had those battles where you and your team has the upper hand? Why don't people whine about those?

2) Similary, you have had situations where most of the enemy is "substandardly performing", what ever you mean by that. But again, can't seem to remember a thread about "Waaa, MM made enemy team so bad we won 12-0!"

3) Kawaii is a tricky pony. Remember that even if she is outranged, but her surface detectability is only 9,5 km so she can sneak pertty darn close.

 

[EsaTuunanen]

Putting them randomly is what keeps the game interesting.

You mean as long as you're that Gladstone Gander, who hardly ever gets put into materially inferior team and when enemy team has better ships its full of "substandardly performing" players...

 

For me the most satisfying matches are those with good material equality where its your skill against enemy skill which can make the difference.

Instead of needing to battle uphill because MM screwed your team into rear...

It doesn't matter if your remaining team plays superiorly to remaining enemy and could wipe them out when time/point limits don't allow that.

Without those materially/numerically inferior but more skilled team would have actual chance to win more often.

 

But as I don't see those match time or point limits being removed both sides should be then given equal chance to win by forcing at least decent material balance/equality between teams.

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

 

1) But you have had those battles where you and your team has the upper hand? Why don't people whine about those?

 

 

But I _do_ whine about those.

I neither want an advantage nor a disadvantage from the MM. I want it to be a level playing field where my skill or my lack of skill (or that of my team) decides the battle.

 

Isn´t that what this game is about?

 

[YukiEiriKun]

But I _do_ whine about those.

I neither want an advantage nor a disadvantage from the MM. I want it to be a level playing field where my skill or my lack of skill (or that of my team) decides the battle.

Isn´t that what this game is about?

 

Random is that. It is not about equity, it is about random ships (wihtin an certain limit) and random players trying to work together to achieve an one goal, Victory!

Co-op has mirrored teams. They are boring. I like the excitement when waitin to see what kind of teams the MM has put together this time.

Yes, there are moments of "Ohmigod! Thy have that .. and that and that!" but also "Yay! We got this and that and that!" and both belong into the random environment.

 

You just need to praise the RNGesus and give your life for the Randomness. Accept the Random in your life and everything will be easier.

 

[Hauptbahnhof]

You mean as long as you're that Gladstone Gander, who hardly ever gets put into materially inferior team and when enemy team has better ships its full of "substandardly performing" players...

 

For me the most satisfying matches are those with good material equality where its your skill against enemy skill which can make the difference.

 

 

No actually it's the other way around. For me the most satisfying matches are those were you are in the underdog team and still manages to come out of top thanks to luck, skill or both.

 

For example if you are in a DD and the enemy team have lots of cruisers that you still manage to outsmart, or if your in a IJN CV going up against 2 US ones with godly fighters and still pull out ahead.

 

That is what makes the game fun and interesting.

 

Judging by the amount of whining on these forums I suspect I am pretty alone with this view however....

 

For example Tier 3 Wickes is plain useless against mostly T4-5 enemy team.

Only ships it could harm are IJN DDs and those can easily evade it, because of being able to detect it before being themselves detected, or just keep it spotted until his team's cruisers/BBs blow it out of water without it ever having chance to shoot torps back.

Also that T3 Kawachi outranged by every opponent (except those stealth torping IJN DDs) doesn't help really any.

 

Or how about enemy getting T7 IJN CV (against your CVless mostly T5 team) while your team gets almost cruiser long detectability Sims with short range torps.

But you probably think that BB can counter highly stealthy IJN DD...

 

None of these are impossible to win. Hard yes, but that is part of what makes it fun and challenging ( if you have the right mindset ).

 

I have seen Wickes top of the team against T4-5 by using islands and smoke smartly, and closing distance while the targets were pre-occupied with other ships and DDs.

 

The Kawachi is unique (among BBs) in that it has turrets on both sides, use it to quickly bring guns to bear even when you maneuver wildly. It can pull of great matches and is a beast in terms of armor and hitpoints compared to other T3 ships.

 

The T7 IJN CV can be cornered and rushed by enemy fast ships like Cruisers and Destroyers that can easily dodge most drops, even if they are spotted miles away.

 

In my Battleships I have on several ocations been able to predict where a "highly stealthy IJN DD" will pop up next, and be ready for him with a full broadside of HE turned his way and blown him out of the water in a single salvo.

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

 

Random is that. It is not about equity, it is about random ships (wihtin an certain limit) and random players trying to work together to achieve an one goal, Victory!

Co-op has mirrored teams. They are boring. I like the excitement when waitin to see what kind of teams the MM has put together this time.

Yes, there are moments of "Ohmigod! Thy have that .. and that and that!" but also "Yay! We got this and that and that!" and both belong into the random environment.

 

You just need to praise the RNGesus and give your life for the Randomness. Accept the Random in your life and everything will be easier.

 

 

CoOp is boring because the bots are stupid, not because they drive the same ships as the human team.

 

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree here, since I don´t think one of us can convince the other of his point of view.

 

[YukiEiriKun]

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree here, since I don´t think one of us can convince the other of his point of view.

 

And so we shall!

[EsaTuunanen]

1) But you have had those battles where you and your team has the upper hand? Why don't people whine about those?

Yeah, have been occasionally in team with material superiority but that's rarity.

Like one in which my team had clearly superior CV... only to have its player keep it sitting in place to get wiped out by first strike of enemy CVs.

 

I pay always attention to team compositions to think what I should target if having chance in that and what would be the biggest threats to my ship and what to rest of my team.

And instead of random distribution there are often repeating things like enemy having all or most of stealth torping IJN DDs...

Sometimes even three Minekazes when I in my Gremmy get some short torp range USN DD and maybe Isokaze to keep company.

 

Since start of OBT the most unbalanced teams have rarely even had lots of divisions to explain them.

[warlock07rox]

Would def wait longer for balanced teams instead of the mm we are getting atm

[chazwozza]

 

MM is wank we all know this when was the last time you had a double figure winning streak? For me in tanks it would be never with over 25k games played yet I've lost count of the double figure losing streaks all players want is a fair shake of the dice not this cluster [edited]of a matchmaking system they currently use.The poll results seem to back this up