Draws.. Sigh.

[m4inbrain]

 

Now. There's plenty of discussions already, if there are too many draws or not - and i don't really care for real draws, it's fine. But this was complete [edited], what happened basically is that their team attacked and broke through on one side, everyone apart from a single cruiser, which, as we found out in the end, turned around and hid in the border-corner north-east, betting on a draw - the same with their CV, he was on his way as well. Everything got cleaned up decently, and guess what: we ran out of time, drawing the game.

 

Now i don't know if that already was discussed, but how exactly is this a draw? It's clearly a win for one team, and an obliteration for the other. So why is it that in WoT (the other game from the same company) this would be a victory for us - and here, it's basically a spit in the face, enabling (and i'm sorry here, almost) dickheads to simply drag out and draw matches that no judge/referee ever would call "draw"?

 

I don't understand it, honestly. And yes, i'm venting.

[_Agent_]

Cap next time

[UPSF_Soyokaze]

Yes it is a draw, because your whole team failed to complete the objective, and so did the enemy team.

But yes, if you wanted to make it closer to life then I would call it a loss for both teams, letting that ship escape could have resulted in the deaths of innocent merchant ships that were carrying supplies needed for the war effort.

[Woel]

One thing that could help a lot is maybe if we were able to choose which game mode to play - similar to how you could filter out encounters in WoT.

Say if I want to play Dominations exclusively, I should be able to have checkboxes to exclude standard battles and whatnot - although this might further separate the playerbase and the matchmaker could have potentially harder time and you know, all those Hotspots .

[m4inbrain]

Strawmanning kinda doesn't work here because WoT has caps too. 

 

You simply can't fizz across the map to your liking, especially with a bogue with strike setup defending. Even IF we would've made it to their cap, he would've just decapped us until it drawed out. Ships are simply not fast enough to go across the map completely to defend, clean up enemy ships, cap AND hunt the enemy CV which prevents you from capping.

[OldGrandad]

Without seeming harsh this was an epic fail by the OP's team and a moral victory for the sole remaining enemy cruiser. If I was that Phoenix captain I would be celebrating by grabbing a draw from the jaws of defeat which in this battle must have had lockjaw enabling the enemy cruisers survival.

[m4inbrain]

Without seeming harsh this was an epic fail by the OP's team and a moral victory for the sole remaining enemy cruiser. If I was that Phoenix captain I would be celebrating by grabbing a draw from the jaws of defeat which in this battle must have had lockjaw enabling the enemy cruisers survival.

 

Quite the opinion you got there, considering you didn't see the match. How exactly is abandoning your team and running to the furthest corner of the map after not even half the match a moral victory? The match wasn't even remotely decided by that point.

 

Apart from all those dandy real life examples (which obviously are horrendously stupid), how about we look at it from a gameplay perspective? I've yet to hear an actual reason as to why this is supposed to be a draw, considering that base-cap is NOT the primary objective. It's called "Standard Battle". Guess what, the gamemode where you're supposed (and need) to cap is "Domination". It's a way out if you can't catch someone. Which is a good idea, sadly it doesn't work because the matchtimer is too short. This match we basically got punished because we prevented the enemy team from capping our base, how the hell is that supposed to be correct?

[UPSF_Soyokaze]

 

I've yet to hear an actual reason as to why this is supposed to be a draw

 

You failed to complete any of the objectives.

 

 

considering that base-cap is NOT the primary objective. It's called "Standard Battle". Guess what, the gamemode where you're supposed (and need) to cap is "Domination". It's a way out if you can't catch someone. Which is a good idea, sadly it doesn't work because the matchtimer is too short. This match we basically got punished because we prevented the enemy team from capping our base, how the hell is that supposed to be correct?

 

Both domination and the standard battle have base cap as a primary objective and also have annihilation as a primary objective, those are the only objective in all game modes, and have equal importance.

In your example, your team completely failed at both objectives.

Clearly you defended with more ships than needed and were punished for it. Maybe if those two ships which had about the same amount of points as the phoenix that ran away and did nothing, had gone and sat on the enemy base instead of running in circles and not damaging anything anway, you could have won.

 

 

 

[Pte_Parts]

Strawmanning kinda doesn't work here because WoT has caps too. 

 

You simply can't fizz across the map to your liking, especially with a bogue with strike setup defending. Even IF we would've made it to their cap, he would've just decapped us until it drawed out. Ships are simply not fast enough to go across the map completely to defend, clean up enemy ships, cap AND hunt the enemy CV which prevents you from capping.

Seriously?

Just how bad would your team have to be to be constantly de-capped by a lone phoenix? C'mon...three Clevelands firing at it as soon as it's spotted?

Not to mention, once you know where it is (roughly) what else does your CV have to do other than send out every squadron on a sweep?

 

Draws can happen, and personally if I had been in the Pheonix I'd of gone down swinging (a draw is the same as a loss, I never deliberately play for a draw...every shot landed is + xp and credits after all), but other people have other opinions on draws, each to their own I suppose.

 

[OldGrandad]

Quite the opinion you got there, considering you didn't see the match. How exactly is abandoning your team and running to the furthest corner of the map after not even half the match a moral victory? The match wasn't even remotely decided by that point.

 

Apart from all those dandy real life examples (which obviously are horrendously stupid), how about we look at it from a gameplay perspective? I've yet to hear an actual reason as to why this is supposed to be a draw, considering that base-cap is NOT the primary objective. It's called "Standard Battle". Guess what, the gamemode where you're supposed (and need) to cap is "Domination". It's a way out if you can't catch someone. Which is a good idea, sadly it doesn't work because the matchtimer is too short. This match we basically got punished because we prevented the enemy team from capping our base, how the hell is that supposed to be correct?

 

Standard Battle. It's the baseline World of Warships game mode. Your mission is to capture the enemy base or destroy all enemy warships. 

 

This is what your team failed to achieve (as well as the enemy team), neither team killed all the enemy or capped the enemy base so the result was a draw. Please feel free to upload the replay as you rightly say I did not see the match, but no matter the reason for the cruiser to 'abandon' his team he by doing so foiled your victory.

[m4inbrain]

Seriously?

Just how bad would your team have to be to be constantly de-capped by a lone phoenix? C'mon...three Clevelands firing at it as soon as it's spotted?

Not to mention, once you know where it is (roughly) what else does your CV have to do other than send out every squadron on a sweep?

 

Draws can happen, and personally if I had been in the Pheonix I'd of gone down swinging (a draw is the same as a loss, I never deliberately play for a draw...every shot landed is + xp and credits after all), but other people have other opinions on draws, each to their own I suppose.

 

 

.. decapped by a lone phoenix? I clearly said that there was a bogue with strike setup until 45 seconds before time was up (you don't see them at 15km, and while i do know the rough direction - i don't know where to shoot until i spot him at 10km). HE will decap. Apart from the obvious problem that matchmaking throws you a curveball sometimes with a CV only on one side - or no CVs at all. 

 

Apart from that, @Ducat: 

 

Yes, and that's exactly what i'm saying. It's stupid, because there's ships out there that can decap while being invisible. Not just CVs, but Minekazes as well. If a Minekaze don't want to be catched by you, you won't find him - they basically have an inherently build in drawmechanic to abuse. How's that good gamedesign, if your options are: kill everything or cap, while the enemy has ships that can decap and stay undetected for the whole time?

 

 

 

[Tubit101]

Wow... The Sherlocks in this thread... "You must cap to win. Durrr...". I hope you're trolling and not actually being obtuse WG apologists. The game mode is flawed, k? It needs fixing. I feel like you already know this, you just want to play devil's advocate, for some reason... WGs stat pages don't count draws as a separate stat anymore. The only thing that counts is wins. That's the only stat listed on the publicly available page. So why are there so many draws? Most solo players (which are the clear and undisputed majority) have a ballpark draw percentage of six to ten percent. That's a relatively huge amount of boring, unsatisfying, meaningless draws - at least for those who were clearly supposed to win.

 

When ships aren't fast enough to make it to the cap circle without sailing directly for it for five to ten minutes, it's clear that a game mode where you're obligated to cap in order  to win just doesn't cut it. Especially when it takes a few minutes to solo cap. Those twenty minutes just aren't enough, clearly.

 

So, instead of increasing the game duration, you do the obvious and decide the winner by number of ships sunk. If that amount is equal, you decide it by who's got the most (incomplete) cap points. If these are equal, then you decide it's a draw.

[ironhammer500]

Should never really be a Draw the team with the highest score to the objective, either cap or killing all the ships should win..

[soulmask]

 

.. decapped by a lone phoenix? I clearly said that there was a bogue with strike setup until 45 seconds before time was up (you don't see them at 15km, and while i do know the rough direction - i don't know where to shoot until i spot him at 10km). HE will decap. Apart from the obvious problem that matchmaking throws you a curveball sometimes with a CV only on one side - or no CVs at all. 

 

Apart from that, @Ducat: 

 

Yes, and that's exactly what i'm saying. It's stupid, because there's ships out there that can decap while being invisible. Not just CVs, but Minekazes as well. If a Minekaze don't want to be catched by you, you won't find him - they basically have an inherently build in drawmechanic to abuse. How's that good gamedesign, if your options are: kill everything or cap, while the enemy has ships that can decap and stay undetected for the whole time?

 

 

 

 

your team failed to cap, unless your team sailed around the out side of the map and you and them didnt watch the time counter, which can be hard to see they need give the option of changing the colour or making it bigger,  but sorry to say, as others have done   no one bothered to cap they had the mentality of kill all,  so many games have gone to a draw due to this,  all so tere no ship that cna fire its guns with out getting spotted, only DD since they stay spotted for 10 sec, so due to lag it could amke it seem that they never show but if 3-4 ships in the cap, a lone DD aint goign hold that cap off for long

[Pte_Parts]

 

.. decapped by a lone phoenix? I clearly said that there was a bogue with strike setup until 45 seconds before time was up (you don't see them at 15km, and while i do know the rough direction - i don't know where to shoot until i spot him at 10km). HE will decap. Apart from the obvious problem that matchmaking throws you a curveball sometimes with a CV only on one side - or no CVs at all. 

 

Apart from that, @Ducat: 

 

Yes, and that's exactly what i'm saying. It's stupid, because there's ships out there that can decap while being invisible. Not just CVs, but Minekazes as well. If a Minekaze don't want to be catched by you, you won't find him - they basically have an inherently build in drawmechanic to abuse. How's that good gamedesign, if your options are: kill everything or cap, while the enemy has ships that can decap and stay undetected for the whole time?

 

 

 

I apologise , complete reading fail on my part. I do not see the 45 seconds mentioned in any of your previous posts though.

 

For the record, I hate draws. I have (in WoT) been bitched at by my team when, as the last surviving player, I have ignored all suggestion of going for the draw and fought on.....I don't play to lose, and there is no material benefit to a draw, only a psychological one...personally I don't need an ego bandage when playing a game.

You win some, you lose some....if you draw, well, you just lost another one.

 

As far as changing mechanics go, not sure I'd like to see games extended all that much. This is not a sim, and I like the fact that it's reasonably fast-paced with short battles. I t suits me. I do understand that for some, extending the timer would be nice, personally I'd like to see the team with the highest total Xp/ damage done at the end of a game be counted the winners (with all differences in tiers etc. accounted for in the calculation naturally). Not going to hold my breath for this though.

 

[Vogel]

And another loss due to "no cap, kill all" mentality. Seriously, how much XP did your entire team think they were going to get extra by killing a single enemy cruiser? I can understand it if it was an issue with a CV constantly decapping, but this is just tactical loss by you and your team.

[Tubit101]

I find it amazing that people would rather blame the players than realize that the problem lies with the design. With a game of this nature, where completely random players come together, you don't design game modes where it's expected that everyone is reasonable and makes the right decisions. No, you make it idiot proof to ensure that a couple of people don't ruin it for everyone else. If you have the option to idiot-proof your game without any significant degradation of gameplay - you do that. This is game design 101 - elementary stuff.

 

I'm expecting WG to fix these sort of problems, just as I'm expecting them to idiot-proof the design flaw that allows geniuses to division their Albanys with tier eight ships.

 

You can't blame the players for draws. It doesn't work that way when the teams are large and random. Under these conditions, your arguments stop making sense and start tasting of finger-waving moralism, which is entirely counter-productive.

[Sub_Eleven]

It rewards templay, and "punishes" solo players. How is that bad game design? If I see my team can't win, I will activly play for a draw every single time. Not gonna help enemy team by rolling over.

[Tubit101]

First of all. Give me a reason why the game mode should not be idiot-proofed. Why not have a subset of win criteria in order to avoid pointless, frustrating and needlessly aggravating draws? Is there any reason why we should try to preserve draws in a game like this?

 

The notion that players deserve punishment for not managing to cap or kill all opposing ships is short-sighted, elitist and moralistic. Players doing their best (and playing well) should not be punished for situations where they have no influence. For example: when a group of players put in a solid effort and succeed in defending their base from attackers. They are successful, but one enemy DD is hiding somewhere, and time is running out. Fortunately, the team has a ship who survived their offense for the enemy base. She is close enough to cap. Unfortunately, that random team member decides to "kill all" or disconnects or goes afk or cat on fire or is too stupid to understand the concept of capping.

 

This is a situation that happens frequently. So... You are telling me that this is somehow something that the team is supposed to get punished for? No... Just, no. It is not. Those are the situations where the sub-criteria for winning should kick in. "Team A has 5 ships left and team B has one ship left - ok, team A wins". Clearly, this is the superior solution for resolving who wins. Random players should not be arbitrarily punished for something that they have no control over and isn't their fault.

 

If this were a clan battle, where team members could trust each other and strategize realiably, you'd have more of a point. However, it's very much not. It's teams of a very random nature, which is why the game mode - as it is, is flawed and needs fixing - It does not need more unreasonable justification.

[Xmen]

The draw rate must be around 10-15 % in standard battle, why not change the rule slightly for more rewarding game in that game mode ? 

 

Like if one team has capped more than 25% when the timer stop they win ?

Why the hell not instead of hiding the draw stat ?

[ironhammer500]

For all those crying about OP must be terribad for not capping, have you ever timed how long it takes? The Cap only allows 2 people max for the fasted rate and takes around 2 minutes to fully cap...quite hard to cap around the 3 minute mark due to almost taking a minute to sail to the cap if ur about 10 km out.

[OldGrandad]

Wow... The Sherlocks in this thread... "You must cap to win. Durrr...". I hope you're trolling and not actually being obtuse WG apologists. The game mode is flawed, k? It needs fixing. I feel like you already know this, you just want to play devil's advocate, for some reason... WGs stat pages don't count draws as a separate stat anymore. The only thing that counts is wins. That's the only stat listed on the publicly available page. So why are there so many draws?

 

 

Oh dear, for some reason plain English is hard to comprehend. The game mode is not flawed, it is the players that create the result not the game. I am not being an apologist, just fed up with those that cannot understand the object is to win if possible by killing all enemies (some are too blind to try anything else!) or capture the enemy base.

 

Ah, you mention stats, who cares? Try and be a little positive, a draw is not a loss..........

 

 

[Tubit101]

 

Oh dear, for some reason plain English is hard to comprehend. The game mode is not flawed, it is the players that create the result not the game. I am not being an apologist, just fed up with those that cannot understand the object is to win if possible by killing all enemies (some are too blind to try anything else!) or capture the enemy base.

 

Ah, you mention stats, who cares? Try and be a little positive, a draw is not a loss..........

 

 

 

Although it's not my first language, my English comprehension is more than sufficient for this thread. Judging by your unfounded dismissal, you're obviously not planning on actually responding to my posts. Being "fed up" in this instance seems to be an alibi for not actually reading, or taking what I wrote into consideration. You can be as fed up as you want. My arguments are valid regardless. There's simply no good reasons not to implement simple alterations to how a match is estimated as a win or a loss. It would lessen the amount of draws without being unfair. Nobody likes draws, especially as it is right now. Current win criteria, such as capping would still be the overruling factor determining a win or a loss if the game win/loss conditions were to be improved. It would result in a more fair and enjoyable game.

[ironhammer500]

 

 

Ah, you mention stats, who cares? Try and be a little positive, a draw is not a loss..........

 

 

 

Um yes it is a Draw gives the same rewards as a loss....

[Vavil]

but how exactly is this a draw?

 

Neither team completed the objectives.

 

Objective

noun

1. something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target: the objective of a military attack.

 

I think saying the Cruiser did it on purpose "betting on a draw" is just QQ on your part. It looks like you went full on "kill all!" rather than completing the objectives and you failed in that "objective" as well.