The Bismarck is..................Disappointing as a Tier VIII Battleship

[Admiral_Noif]

 

facepalm

 

What you facepalming? I am with a lot questions and you dare to show your facepalm that I don't know about this. Facepalm back for you. 

[Magni56]

He's facepalming because your questions were answered by official newsposts already and discussedi n at least a dozen different threads here, so it would have been child's play for you to find out on your own already.

[Userext]

 

What you facepalming? I am with a lot questions and you dare to show your facepalm that I don't know about this. Facepalm back for you. 

 

why would they make a line from premium ships?

Does this German ships mean that there is german tech tree with only german premium ships? No any non-premium ships?

why would you ask this question? Do you realise how weird this question is?

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

Those numbers, like the dispersion in W.o.T., have no real meaning unless you know the dispersion algorithm for each of the guns and from the gameplay videos with both the Bismarck and Tirpitz it look like the dispersion algorithms are placing a greater number of shots on the outer 50% of the dispersion radius than in the inner 50% while, and unless something have changed since CBT, the Colorado have suddenly begun to have tight and accurate spreads and the North Carolina begun to throw its shots all over the place, last I tried both the Colorado had trouble even hitting a BB under 10 km range while the North Carolina could reliably hit at 20+ km.

 

Nothing from the gameplay videos indicates that the 38cm guns are capable of anything other than close range brawling and even if Quickfingers is a bad BB driver and don't know how to lead properly it was quite clear that those guns where throwing the shots all over the place and will need the accuracy upgrade, if not already installed?, in order to provide some degree of accuracy over 10km range.

 

 

[Userext]

 

Those numbers, like the dispersion in W.o.T., have no real meaning unless you know the dispersion algorithm for each of the guns and from the gameplay videos with both the Bismarck and Tirpitz it look like the dispersion algorithms are placing a greater number of shots on the outer 50% of the dispersion radius than in the inner 50% while, unless something have changed since CBT, the Colorado have suddenly begun to have tight and accurate spreads and the North Carolina begun to throw its shots all over the place, last I tried both the Colorado had trouble even hitting a BB under 10 km range while the North Carolina could reliably hit at 20+ km.

 

Nothing from the gameplay videos indicates that the 38cm guns are capable of anything other than close range brawling and even if Quickfingers is a bad BB driver and don't know how to lead properly it was quite clear that those guns where throwing the shots all over the place and will need the accuracy upgrade, if not already installed?, in order to provide some degree of accuracy over 10km range.

 

 

 

some ships like Fuso requires main battery upgrade. They become really accurate. Others dont require such thing.

[KMS_Tirpitz]

 

Those numbers, like the dispersion in W.o.T., have no real meaning unless you know the dispersion algorithm for each of the guns and from the gameplay videos with both the Bismarck and Tirpitz it look like the dispersion algorithms are placing a greater number of shots on the outer 50% of the dispersion radius than in the inner 50% while, and unless something have changed since CBT, the Colorado have suddenly begun to have tight and accurate spreads and the North Carolina begun to throw its shots all over the place, last I tried both the Colorado had trouble even hitting a BB under 10 km range while the North Carolina could reliably hit at 20+ km.

 

Nothing from the gameplay videos indicates that the 38cm guns are capable of anything other than close range brawling and even if Quickfingers is a bad BB driver and don't know how to lead properly it was quite clear that those guns where throwing the shots all over the place and will need the accuracy upgrade, if not already installed?, in order to provide some degree of accuracy over 10km range.

 

 

 

I hear you and took it up here:

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/25449-bismarck-class-ingame-dispersion-horrible/

[KMS_Tirpitz]

 

Just means that you have to use the acurecy modification for long range fire. Remember Fuso in CBT? She couldt hit a CA at 12 Km either without (when full on taget shells falling behind and in front a lot). Just a bit sad thogh when the opening Salvo during the Hood Battle was Allmost on Target. Considering the lesser number and caliber i really thogh long range pinpoint fire was the German "thing"

 

 

Cya

 

 

Spellfire40

 

 

Yeah, and it was in real life, thus it really ought to be so ingame as well, esp. considering the fewer number of guns.

[Nechrom]

Bismarck suffers from the same crap as the Tiger in WoT/WT. Myth meets the real deal, and ppl are salty.

 

You mean real deal meets 2+ years newer/prototypes.

[GrumpyWorm]

Moved

[Always_ChatBanned]

Making the Tirpitz the premium german BB doesn't make much sense to me because:

 

1.The Bismarck would have sold a lot more as a premium than Tirpitz will.

2. Wasn't the Tirpitz historically the superior ship? Or will they just change that and make the Bismarck the stronger and more advanced ship out of the two even though it would be historically incorrect, or will they make the premium version be stronger than the regular version? 

[Deamon93]

Making the Tirpitz the premium german BB doesn't make much sense to me because:

 

1.The Bismarck would have sold a lot more as a premium than Tirpitz will.

2. Wasn't the Tirpitz historically the superior ship? Or will they just change that and make the Bismarck the stronger and more advanced ship out of the two even though it would be historically incorrect, or will they make the premium version be stronger than the regular version? 

 

Bismarck represents the class while Tirpitz represents herself. Having two ships named Bismarck would be confusing at best. Besides Bismarck had terribad AA and it wouldn't be nice for a tier VIII premium of that size to be a huge TB magnet

[RepSrb]

saw tirpitz but it was shadowed by strong AA units so couldnt gauge AA values, but  its a big torpedo target for cariers!!!

[wolfstrela]

2. Wasn't the Tirpitz historically the superior ship? Or will they just change that and make the Bismarck the stronger and more advanced ship out of the two even though it would be historically incorrect, or will they make the premium version be stronger than the regular version? 

 

Exactly, which calls up for upgrade modules. Hence why premium ships have default modules that can't be changed (yet).

[ThePluckyBrit]

 

Exactly, which calls up for upgrade modules. Hence why premium ships have default modules that can't be changed (yet).

 

They'll never be changeable, the same as premium tanks in WoT.

[Lance_Horne]

Bismark was accurate against the Hood and Prince of Wales in the Denmark Straits and managed to straddle Rodney in her last battle, but that was about it, she never scored one hit on the British ships in her final action, before being quickly wrecked by King George V and especially the Rodney.

[Exozen]

Bismark was accurate against the Hood and Prince of Wales in the Denmark Straits and managed to straddle Rodney in her last battle, but that was about it, she never scored one hit on the British ships in her final action, before being quickly wrecked by King George V and especially the Rodney.

 

Yeah because she had in the end one functional turret that was shooting blind because one of the shots took out all the equipment for range targeting. 

[evilmii]

Been in one battle with a tirpitz. i was sailing North Carolina fully upgraded. i was 2nd best in team. the best WAS the tirpitz. not on a much difference because we both had over 2000 score statistic that battle. but tirpitz performed great in mid to close range battle. can`t say much about tirpitz AA self defense because i was close to it and AA worked well vs only 1 t6 or t7 cv.

[Lance_Horne]

 

Yeah because she had in the end one functional turret that was shooting blind because one of the shots took out all the equipment for range targeting. 

 

Which shows Bismark was not invincible at all, because any inferior battleship could have done that to her. 

[Thoddyx]

Which shows Bismark was not invincible at all, because any inferior battleship could have done that to her. 

 

Given the ressources the RN used for the Bismarck search and destroy mission, one can expect this end.

B Battleship

BC Battlecruiser

AC Aircraftcarrier

C Cruiser

D Destroyer

 

ships employed in the Bismarck Operation

Home Fleet

King George V B

Rodney B

Repulse B

Victorious AC

Hood BC

Prince of Wales B

 

First Cruiser Squadron

Norfolk C

Suffolk C

London C

 

Second Cruiser Squadron

Galatea C

Aurora C

Kenya C

Neptune C

Arethusa C

 

Eighteenth Cruiser Squadron

Edinburgh C

Manchester C

Birmingham C

 

Third Destroyer Flottilla

Inglefield D

Active D

Antelope D

Achates D

Anthony D

Electra D

Echo D

 

Sixth Destroyer Flottilla

Somali D

Tartar D

Mashona D

Eskimo D

Punjabi D

 

Twentieth Destroyer Flottilla

Intrepid D

Icarus D

Nestor D

Jupiter D

 

Western Approaches Command

Hermione C

Lance D

Legion D

Sanguennay D

Assinibuine D

Columbia D

 

Seventh Destroyer Division

Cossack D

Sikh D

Zulu D

Maori D

 

O.R.P.

Piorun D

 

Nore Command

Windsor D

 

Force H

Renown BC

Ark Royal AC

Sheffield C

 

Eight Destroyer Flottilla (With Force H)

Faulknor D

Foredight D

Forester D

Foxhound D

Fury D

Hesperus D

 

America and West Indies Command

Ramillies B

Revenge B

 

South Atlantic Command

Dorsetshire C

 

Submarines

Minerve

P.31.

Sealion

Seawolf

Sturgeon

Pandora

Tigris

H.44

 

 

In war games the Kriegsmarine played in 1938/39 they exactly prognosted such outcome, as it was alsmost impossible to bring a lone ship home after meeting (at least) equal strong enemies, when the own ship became damaged.

 

In the last encounter all advantages were on the side of the British Forces.

 

 

[KMS_Tirpitz]

 

Which shows Bismark was not invincible at all, because any inferior battleship could have done that to her. 

 

No battleship is invincible, but seriously in this case the Bismarck was a sitting duck incapable of escape or any form of evasive maneuver whilst being surrounded from all sides. She was sailing a very slow 7 knots in a constant 12 deg turn and could only use her two front turrets which had to be in a constant traverse to engage her target the HMS Rodney. Despite all this she was the first to straddle her target and keep straddling it until her FC director was knocked out by a shell from KGV 12 min later. 

 

Give Bismarck back her rudder and speed (and radar) and you'd see the British ships struggle to effectively engage her whilst they themselves would've been under accurate long range fire. Remember the Bismarck was easily able to outspeed both KGV & Rodney, thus she could dictate the engagement.

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

 

274 dispersion isnt that bad though

Alone from the value itself, it'd be among the worst. But I think the accuracy actually is a more complex calculation. Like how patch 4.1 will buff accuracy at ranges of 3 km or less, it might very well be that Bismarck is better at closer ranges.

 

They'll never be changeable, the same as premium tanks in WoT.

Isn't Sims getting the choice after Patch 4.1 between two sets of torps?

[KMS_Tirpitz]

Really makes no sense they would make a ship which shined at long range engagements a short range brawler ingame, esp. when there were much better alternatives for that, such as some of the Japanese BBs that are quite litterally bristeling with secondaries.

[HaachamaShipping]

Really makes no sense they would make a ship which shined at long range engagements a short range brawler ingame, esp. when there were much better alternatives for that, such as some of the Japanese BBs that are quite litterally bristeling with secondaries.

 

The issue isn't secondaries, it's armour. Bismarck has that, Japanese BBs haven't. And where they have it, they usually can brawl quite a bit. IJN BBs kind of don't brawl whenever their armour is so garbage they are better off just trying to hit things at long range or going after cruisers.

 

Bismarck's secondaries aren't that bad. 16 15 cm guns and 10 10.5 cm guns. Compare to the Japanese Nagato, which has 18 14 cm guns and 8 12.7 cm guns. So Bismarck would be pretty comparable to that.

[Lance_Horne]

 

No battleship is invincible, but seriously in this case the Bismarck was a sitting duck incapable of escape or any form of evasive maneuver whilst being surrounded from all sides. She was sailing a very slow 7 knots in a constant 12 deg turn and could only use her two front turrets which had to be in a constant traverse to engage her target the HMS Rodney. Despite all this she was the first to straddle her target and keep straddling it until her FC director was knocked out by a shell from KGV 12 min later. 

 

Give Bismarck back her rudder and speed (and radar) and you'd see the British ships struggle to effectively engage her whilst they themselves would've been under accurate long range fire. Remember the Bismarck was easily able to outspeed both KGV & Rodney, thus she could dictate the engagement.

 

 

 

You are missing the point completly, no one can predict the outcome of a naval battle between two ships, in the first battle Bismark came out on top because one of her salvoes blew Hood up, in the second her FC director was damaged so she could not aim properly and consequently she lost, straddling may be fine but Rodney and King George V hit Bismark and wrecked her.

You say the British would have had difficulty in hitting her, Prince of Wales did not, and she was firing with malfunctioning turrets, the Royal Navy was also perfectly capable of hitting ships at long range.

Bismark was a fine ship as were Rodney and King George V and even if Bismark was undamaged, neither you or I could predict the outcome, no matter how many statistics you post, the battle  could go either way.

Take the Graph Spee, driven into Motevideo harbour by 3 cruisers who she easily outgunned and should have destroyed, but eventually defeated by guile and cunning, the superior ship does not always win.

[KubusSc7]

 

You are missing the point completly, no one can predict the outcome of a naval battle between two ships, in the first battle Bismark came out on top because one of her salvoes blew Hood up, in the second her FC director was damaged so she could not aim properly and consequently she lost, straddling may be fine but Rodney and King George V hit Bismark and wrecked her.

You say the British would have had difficulty in hitting her, Prince of Wales did not, and she was firing with malfunctioning turrets, the Royal Navy was also perfectly capable of hitting ships at long range.

Bismark was a fine ship as were Rodney and King George V and even if Bismark was undamaged, neither you or I could predict the outcome, no matter how many statistics you post, the battle  could go either way.

Take the Graph Spee, driven into Motevideo harbour by 3 cruisers who she easily outgunned and should have destroyed, but eventually defeated by guile and cunning, the superior ship does not always win.

 

There you are missing his point or rather put words into his mouth. He only said "the British ships struggle to effectively engage her whilst they themselves would've been under accurate long range fire" Where is that a predictament of an autcome? Where did he say one side would win easily, or at all? He said they would have problems. While Bismarck would not have been that sitting duck that she was. That's all he said and that's a simply fact. You acted very defensively there, that let me guess you are emotionally involved, while he stated an objective fact.