What the hell is wrong with IJN BB aim?

[LadyGunner]

Seriously. I have a Myogi. I have other cruiser lines on tier 8. I don't 'suck' per say at aiming. Actually, sometimes, I aim pretty good. My Cleveland average is 8 hits per salvo. That's not bad!

 

However, with the Kawachi and the Myogi now, no matter how good I aim, even if I manage to approximate turns to the perfect centimeter - heck, even if it's a huge battleship going in a straight line and aiming right at the bullseye -some of my shots go above it, and some of my shots drop before it. If I aim perfectly, I DO NOT HIT. The spread is INSANE. What the hell happened? Is it gonna keep being like this, being a RNG fan fest no matter how good your aim is or will other ships, down the line, not have a 1km spread between projectiles fired in the same location? 

And no. It's not a forward deck - aft deck problem. I don't miss sideways. I miss in depth. From the same turret/gun, one projectile goes 200-400m after the target and one 200-400m below the target. It never hits where aimed. No wonder everyone is going cruiser lines nowadays..

[Userext]

Seriously. I have a Myogi. I have other cruiser lines on tier 8. I don't 'suck' per say at aiming. Actually, sometimes, I aim pretty good. My Cleveland average is 8 hits per salvo. That's not bad!

 

However, with the Kawachi and the Myogi now, no matter how good I aim, even if I manage to approximate turns to the perfect centimeter - heck, even if it's a huge battleship going in a straight line and aiming right at the bullseye -some of my shots go above it, and some of my shots drop before it. If I aim perfectly, I DO NOT HIT. The spread is INSANE. What the hell happened? Is it gonna keep being like this, being a RNG fan fest no matter how good your aim is or will other ships, down the line, not have a 1km spread between projectiles fired in the same location? 

 

And no. It's not a forward deck - aft deck problem. I don't miss sideways. I miss in depth. From the same turret/gun, one projectile goes 200-400m after the target and one 200-400m below the target. It never hits where aimed. No wonder everyone is going cruiser lines nowadays..

 

myogi and kawachi dont have planes the aim sight used to be better. Now it feels really dumb. You miss at depth because you are probably not considering the range. If you move your aim 1cm the target will move 0.5km enough to miss a ship.

[LadyGunner]

No Userext. Myogi has planes. And no. It's not about that. I tested it on a friendly player. How can I illustrate to make myself clear?

 

My aim is X. Projectile landing is Y. I am 1. The enemy is 2.

 

1----------Y--X2--Y. 

 

Even if I perfectly aim, it does not hit. It goes over, and under. It's like the aim zone is a dead zone. So no, you did not understand. I'm able to hit destroyers with a cruiser from 14km away and I can't hit another BB with a BB from 10-11km?

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

They aren't great but Kongo is really good

[OVanBruce]

 

the aim sight used to be better.

 

Can you tell me more about this? I stoped playing a month and hlave before OBT and came bac for OBT so maybe I missed some changes on the aim sight. I've noticed how it gets pretty difficult to land long range citadels with my Mogami whereas before I did it quite consistently.

[LadyGunner]

 

Can you tell me more about this? I stoped playing a month and hlave before OBT and came bac for OBT so maybe I missed some changes on the aim sight. I've noticed how it gets pretty difficult to land long range citadels with my Mogami whereas before I did it quite consistently.

 

Yeah.. this interests me too.. people say you need to aim at the water level. But even as so. NO SHOTS LAND. Only if you're lucky. Out of 6 projectiles, 2-3 land behind, 2-3 land between you and them, and 1 sometimes hits..

[StuntMan0369]

It's called splicing. It's very common amongst BB's, especially at lower tiers. Coming from a cruiser line, it will be very prominent, as cruisers have better guns for continuous and accurate fire. Just considering the shell dispersion between a BB and Cruiser, you can see why less shots will be hitting on average. Now, as for your example, I have yet to grind the IJN BB line (About to start it in the next week or so) but coming from the American BB line, shell splicing is something I've just gotten used to. You've got to take it with a pinch of salt and just say to yourself (I did everything right, just the luck of the draw). Seriously, the sooner you accept the flaws of a BB, the much greater those multi citadels hits will become.

 

Happy sailing, Captain 

[Userext]

They made the scope more horizontal. This is a DD scope at CBT

 

Ths is OBT a battleship scope. 

 

 

Now the thing is. They changed the scope view with 0.4.0 because that scout plane view wouldnt be effective as it is. You see scopes could go really high but they would only look down on ships if they come close to reaching their limit. A bit annoying for me. 

 

Edit: wrong picture

[LadyGunner]

u literally posted the same 2 pics..

[StuntMan0369]

They made the scope more horizontal. This is a DD scope at CBT

 

Ths is OBT a battleship scope. 

 

Now the thing is. They changed the scope view with 0.4.0 because that scout plane view wouldnt be effective as it is. You see scopes could go really high but they would only look down on ships if they come close to reaching their limit. A bit annoying for me. 

 

Uploaded two of the same image there mate But yeah, the main difference is the fact that the aim sight has been extended across more and now features a '5' and '10' marking on the right side (Also the left side, but only the '10' is really visible).

[Unintentional_submarine]

It's called splicing.

 

No, it is called straddling or bracketing. Splicing is what you do with cables.

 

Don't listen to PhlyDaily or BaronVonGamez on these matters. They are entertainers (and good at it), but tend to talk a bit strange about things.

 

And when you manage to go between torps, you comb them. Again not splicing.

[StuntMan0369]

 

No, it is called straddling or bracketing. Splicing is what you do with cables.

 

Don't listen to PhlyDaily or BaronVonGamez on these matters. They are entertainers (and good at it), but tend to talk a bit strange about things.

 

And when you manage to go between torps, you comb them. Again not splicing.

 

Never heard anyone use that terminology, I think it needs to be more widespread, cause I have been calling it splicing since before I ever watched Baron or Phly (I stopped after a while, they became too irritating ). Straddling works as a better word for it instead of bracketing. As for 'combing', I'm not so sure I like that one, I think everyone will just said 'dodged' or 'split'. I'm just gonna say 'Threaded the needle'.

 

But still, you can give names to anything, as long as it's understood what it means. Obviously you're not gonna rename starboard left or port right, but ya get my drift.

[Axxendal]

I'm kind of surprised, most complaints about BB dispersion are about left/right. There's a sizeable portion of players who want it switched up so that it's more of an over/under spread.

[Colossamite]

I'm kind of surprised, most complaints about BB dispersion are about left/right. There's a sizeable portion of players who want it switched up so that it's more of an over/under spread.

 

well you kinda shoot in a cone, up, down and to the sides of where you aim  sometimes even the stray shot hits the dodging target aswell, it's magnificent really hehe

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Never heard anyone use that terminology, I think it needs to be more widespread, cause I have been calling it splicing since before I ever watched Baron or Phly (I stopped after a while, they became too irritating ). Straddling works as a better word for it instead of bracketing. As for 'combing', I'm not so sure I like that one, I think everyone will just said 'dodged' or 'split'. I'm just gonna say 'Threaded the needle'.

 

But still, you can give names to anything, as long as it's understood what it means. Obviously you're not gonna rename starboard left or port right, but ya get my drift.

 

That's the thing, those terms are the actual naval terms.

 

Splicing doesn't work because it has diametrically opposite meanings. Combining or splitting.

Straddling comes from the dispersion patterns the guns took when firing on a target. Likes legs (multiple ones, but you get it) on either side of an object, the splashes towered around the target. Straddling, unlike ingame, was considered good, as it meant the range and lead was correct. Bracketing is pretty self-explanatory I should think, but in general was a more negative term (which was also applicable in other fields), where straddling was more positive (and generally only used for naval gunnery).

 

Combing (sometimes called 'combing the tracks') a torpedo attack was only really applied to air attacks, and was initially used to describe turning into the torps, but in time it just meant any situation where the ship was parallel with torpedoes on either side. For instance Admiral Somerville commented on an Italian torpedo bomber attack on Ark Royal "We were combing one [torpedo] successfully". And in the report of Captain Tennant after the sinking of Repulse and Prince of Wales, he made use of it to describe the intensity of the attack.

These are only easily found official uses of it, but it is an old term and is pretty fitting as well. The reason I mentioned it is because some like to call that splicing too, which annoys the hell out of me, as not only is there an established term, but that term is a hell of lot more descriptive of the action taken.

 

Interestingly the Germans invented a similar term independently, though that time for the offensive action taken by planes, with a special tactic called "The Golden Comb", because it involved large numbers of torpedo planes abreast, so the sea would resemble a comb afterwards.

[Coenraad]

The myogi feels like what it is.

If you have played both wyoming and Myogi you will know what k mean.

Think of the aim as a box, wyoming has 12 rounds that fill that box, so a high likelyhood that something will get hit.

Now the Myogi has only 6 shots landing in that box. Meaning you have a signigicanly lower chance to hit becourse the box is less filled out.

The myogi has massive gaps in it's spread and you feel that. The front and rear turret don't seem to aim close to eachother.

Also you simply have half the guns. No surprise my Myogi stats show around half the damage of what k had with the Wyoming.

 

Stick with it though, both Kongo and Fuso are very nice.

[Figment]

Sounds like you try to stay at extremely long range. I find IJN BBs to be better brawlers than snipers, at which point they can be extremely deadly. With the Myogi especially, you have to ensure the six cannons hit, so ensure the range is optimal. Yes it can engage at 18km-21, that also means it is firing at maximum dispersion range.

[Apfelsator]

The myogi feels like what it is.

If you have played both wyoming and Myogi you will know what k mean.

Think of the aim as a box, wyoming has 12 rounds that fill that box, so a high likelyhood that something will get hit.

Now the Myogi has only 6 shots landing in that box. Meaning you have a signigicanly lower chance to hit becourse the box is less filled out.

The myogi has massive gaps in it's spread and you feel that. The front and rear turret don't seem to aim close to eachother.

Also you simply have half the guns. No surprise my Myogi stats show around half the damage of what k had with the Wyoming.

 

Stick with it though, both Kongo and Fuso are very nice.

 

Well, all that doesn't explain the awful damage the myogi does IF it hits.

I just had a match where i managed to at least hit with 3 of my 6 shells per salvo almost all the time, on two south carolinas and a two kumas and from 40 hits in total, 3 had a higher damage roll then 1000 (one with 7200, one with 2000 and one with 3300) and that with AP shells from different angles and ranges throughout the match.

I did hit 1 kuma with 15 shells in total, in medium to close range the bugger just didn't die.

Thats awful, especially for the fist BB with the 356mm cannons.

 

There definatly is something broken with the myogi and it needs to be fixed because as it stands now, the myogi is way inferior to its US counterpart at the same tier(hell, even against the south carolina 1 tier below), regarding the damage it can hand out.

I mean, it doesn't mean anything if the max AP damage is 10 000 if you get this max damge once in every 20 hits.

[Kais_S012]

It's called splicing. It's very common amongst BB's, especially at lower tiers. Coming from a cruiser line, it will be very prominent, as cruisers have better guns for continuous and accurate fire. Just considering the shell dispersion between a BB and Cruiser, you can see why less shots will be hitting on average. Now, as for your example, I have yet to grind the IJN BB line (About to start it in the next week or so) but coming from the American BB line, shell splicing is something I've just gotten used to. You've got to take it with a pinch of salt and just say to yourself (I did everything right, just the luck of the draw). Seriously, the sooner you accept the flaws of a BB, the much greater those multi citadels hits will become.

 

Happy sailing, Captain 

 

I've always called it straddling

A target ship moving at 18 knots (33 km/h) traveled 0.15 nautical miles (0.28 km) in 30 seconds, and would often maneuver to "spoil" the range measurement. The "spread" of the salvo would have one shot fire "over" the estimated range, one shot "under," and two on the estimated range. When a four-shot "salvo" "straddled" the target with one splashing over, one splashing under and two landing on or near the target, fire control officers knew they had the correct range.

 

either the the Myogi and Kawachi are terrible for their gun accuracy and RNG roles but the Kongo is well worth it

[Battledragon]

Low tier battleship accuracy is just wonky in general. once you get to tier 5 they start shooting somewhat straighter.

[TheJezna]

 

That's the thing, those terms are the actual naval terms.

 

Splicing doesn't work because it has diametrically opposite meanings. Combining or splitting.

Straddling comes from the dispersion patterns the guns took when firing on a target. Likes legs (multiple ones, but you get it) on either side of an object, the splashes towered around the target. Straddling, unlike ingame, was considered good, as it meant the range and lead was correct. Bracketing is pretty self-explanatory I should think, but in general was a more negative term (which was also applicable in other fields), where straddling was more positive (and generally only used for naval gunnery).

 

Combing (sometimes called 'combing the tracks') a torpedo attack was only really applied to air attacks, and was initially used to describe turning into the torps, but in time it just meant any situation where the ship was parallel with torpedoes on either side. For instance Admiral Somerville commented on an Italian torpedo bomber attack on Ark Royal "We were combing one [torpedo] successfully". And in the report of Captain Tennant after the sinking of Repulse and Prince of Wales, he made use of it to describe the intensity of the attack.

These are only easily found official uses of it, but it is an old term and is pretty fitting as well. The reason I mentioned it is because some like to call that splicing too, which annoys the hell out of me, as not only is there an established term, but that term is a hell of lot more descriptive of the action taken.

 

Interestingly the Germans invented a similar term independently, though that time for the offensive action taken by planes, with a special tactic called "The Golden Comb", because it involved large numbers of torpedo planes abreast, so the sea would resemble a comb afterwards.

 

Not sure if it's from having a grund combat background, but as far as I know, bracketing has nothing to do with missing, but rather is a method of aquiring a firing Solution in artillery fire. Maybe it has a different meaning in naval combat?

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Not sure if it's from having a grund combat background, but as far as I know, bracketing has nothing to do with missing, but rather is a method of aquiring a firing Solution in artillery fire. Maybe it has a different meaning in naval combat?

 

It's not that bracketing is wholly negative, it is just more commonly used when the situation is frustrating, than straddling. However, straddling is by far the more common term in naval gunnery.

I might also have misunderstood when bracketing is used (there isn't some clarification website for this). And it is when shells fall in front and behind a target, where straddling is obviously on the sides. But again, it is most commonly used when there is something not entirely right.

[Admiral_noodle]

Myogi and Kawachi are rubbish shots at range. Kingo, fully upgraded is great. Keep going

 

Also im pretty sure a straddle is shells from a salvo in front and behind the target. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvo

[Unintentional_submarine]

Myogi and Kawachi are rubbish shots at range. Kingo, fully upgraded is great. Keep going

 

Also im pretty sure a straddle is shells from a salvo in front and behind the target. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvo

 

Yeah, I was using the target's perspective. Hence the use of 'on the sides' for straddling. In fact I included the straddling to make my point more obvious. Seems I could have done that a bit better.

In any case, the straddling 'topic' is by now fairly OT, and I'll bow out of it again.

[Magni56]

 

Well, all that doesn't explain the awful damage the myogi does IF it hits.

I just had a match where i managed to at least hit with 3 of my 6 shells per salvo almost all the time, on two south carolinas and a two kumas and from 40 hits in total, 3 had a higher damage roll then 1000 (one with 7200, one with 2000 and one with 3300) and that with AP shells from different angles and ranges throughout the match.

I did hit 1 kuma with 15 shells in total, in medium to close range the bugger just didn't die.

Thats awful, especially for the fist BB with the 356mm cannons.

 

There definatly is something broken with the myogi and it needs to be fixed because as it stands now, the myogi is way inferior to its US counterpart at the same tier(hell, even against the south carolina 1 tier below), regarding the damage it can hand out.

I mean, it doesn't mean anything if the max AP damage is 10 000 if you get this max damge once in every 20 hits.

 

There are no damage rolls. You will do a fixed amount of damage depending on wehter your shot bounces, spalls, penetrates, ctaidel-penetrates or over-penetrates. And these are all the results of where and at what angle you hit the target.