Losing

[Syrchalis]

The XP penalty for losing or the reward for winning is way too high.

 

I am so sick of capping half the points, dealing 150k dmg every game and then getting just 1k XP instead of the 3k I would be getting if we were winning. Right now this game is all about winning the battle. Contribution is largely irrelevant. If you lose, you are fucked. People would be a lot less mad and raging if losing wouldn't cost them so much. I'm not saying you should get the same reward for losing, but see it this way - if you're losing you are already perform worse than when winning (on average) otherwise you wouldn't be losing. So on average the reward is already less. Right now it gets reduced by like 66% ontop of that. So if you tried your best you get nothing. If you failed like an idiot, you get nothing. Only if you performed well AND won you get something worthwhile.

 

If this was a game like soccer or basketball where you play with the same people over and over, I would say - you win together, you lose together, that's fine. But you always have a ton of random people on your team. So you should not be punished so much for their failure, especially not if you did your very best to make up for them.

[J_Fuller]

Think it is fine... Perhaps a bit harsh, but making sure that winning is a hey part of the game, is not really a problem...

 

[Syrchalis]

Look at how insanely competitive LoL is, there the difference between win/loss is like 25%. And I'm not talking about ranked games. I doubt it would hurt the game, I seriously think it would make people want to do well a lot more. Right now your XP is 66% dependant on win/loss and 33% on how you perform. It should be the other way around.

[J_Fuller]

In some way I agree with you, but if we think about it, it shouldn't really matter... If you don't do well/are among the first who is killed and win, you get perhaps 700 xp.

If you do well and win you get alot more... if you loss and do well you still get rewarded for it, but not to a degree that we might want... But it is an incentiv for winning, and thuse should speed the game up!

 

And it should not be so that you can just fail yourself up to tier 10 (like you can do in WoT)

[Syrchalis]

Exactly but thats how it is now. If you win, because your teammates do well, you can be as bad as you want, you will get some relevant XP. Meanwhile, if you outperform ANYONE in the game by far and lose, you will get about the same as the bad player on the winning side.

[J_Fuller]

No more like a mediocor player

 

and just a game before tree "winners" got less than 300 xp

[Syrchalis]

No more like a mediocor player

 

and just a game before tree "winners" got less than 300 xp

 

Maybe you should compare our stats before you accuse me of anything. I am in fact angry about the low XP you get when losing because I work my [edited]off and have one of the biggest impacts on the game of all the ships in both teams - just so my team can watch them cap the base unhindered or they let them take all caps.

I end up getting a crappy unrespectful amount of XP for my efforts, despite me having done more than anyone on the winning side.

 

This game isn't made for one person doing all the things at the same time. So I can't single-handedly win the game. And that's okay. It's a team game. But I think individual effort doesn't get rewarded enough. WG surely thinks if winning is so important people will teamplay better. But all it does is that people go brainafk and don't care, because they get their XP anyway.

In organized play (like I said before with my sports example) this wouldn't be an issue, but since teams are entirely random (even if everyone is in a division, the divisions still don't know each other) rewards shouldn't be tied so closely to what the team does.

Again, it's alright that winning matters. It just shouldn't make or break your reward if you do well.

[pun_za_kette]

The XP penalty for losing or the reward for winning is way too high.

 

I am so sick of capping half the points, dealing 150k dmg every game and then getting just 1k XP instead of the 3k I would be getting if we were winning. Right now this game is all about winning the battle. Contribution is largely irrelevant. If you lose, you are fucked. People would be a lot less mad and raging if losing wouldn't cost them so much. I'm not saying you should get the same reward for losing, but see it this way - if you're losing you are already perform worse than when winning (on average) otherwise you wouldn't be losing. So on average the reward is already less. Right now it gets reduced by like 66% ontop of that. So if you tried your best you get nothing. If you failed like an idiot, you get nothing. Only if you performed well AND won you get something worthwhile.

 

If this was a game like soccer or basketball where you play with the same people over and over, I would say - you win together, you lose together, that's fine. But you always have a ton of random people on your team. So you should not be punished so much for their failure, especially not if you did your very best to make up for them.

Maybe your best just isn't good enough sometimes? It happens. You can't carry 11 people. Just won't happen. But winning SHOULD be worth a lot more than losing. Of course it is about winning! If there wasn't enough reward for winning people would just go off with their DDs and deal as much damage as they could and not give a F about the win or loss. And of course a competetive game is all about winning. Losers simpyl don't deserve as much of a reward than winners do! It's pretty simple.

 

By the way is your winrate still pretty good, so you seem to carry enough. And it's a random team game, of course you will get a lot of "not so good players" in your team from time to time. It is normal, in WG titles especially.

[rickbat69]

i see where you're coming from chap, but....

the way the game is, it's the best way...

this way the free loaders and bellow average players won't progress in the game as fast as everyone else..

it's a team game, and we all (or most of us anyway) do our best to win.

[Syrchalis]

i see where you're coming from chap, but....

the way the game is, it's the best way...

this way the free loaders and bellow average players won't progress in the game as fast as everyone else..

it's a team game, and we all (or most of us anyway) do our best to win.

 

Very weak argument there. What I propose is that your personal effort is worth more, so the bellow average players will progress even slower and the good players will not be held back so bad by the terrible players.

 

Maybe your best just isn't good enough sometimes? It happens. You can't carry 11 people. Just won't happen. But winning SHOULD be worth a lot more than losing. Of course it is about winning! If there wasn't enough reward for winning people would just go off with their DDs and deal as much damage as they could and not give a F about the win or loss. And of course a competetive game is all about winning. Losers simpyl don't deserve as much of a reward than winners do! It's pretty simple.

 

By the way is your winrate still pretty good, so you seem to carry enough. And it's a random team game, of course you will get a lot of "not so good players" in your team from time to time. It is normal, in WG titles especially.

 

And here - no. Winning should not be worth so insanely much. You can easily make people do things like cap bases and such if you make capping a base or assisting in it worth as much as 50.000 damage. Bam, everyone will try to cap. Thats how it should be. Right now you get the WORST of both worlds. You get nothing no matter how good you play when losing. You get a crapload even if you played terrible when winning. The objectives (e.g. caps in domination) are worth northing in xp/credits, so everyone ignores them and DDs go off and deal as much damage as they can.

 

I just capped B, C and D with my DD, sank 3 ships and we lost because enemy stole B and C back while my team decided not to stop them and never even try to get them back. They simply failed around in our starting point and died slowly. Meanwhile I capped 3 points, did over 100k damage and got what? 700 xp.

 

What you say is that because we lost, everything I did was worth nothing and I should just afk if things look grim, because there is no point even trying to do anything when losing, because your XP will be crap anyway.

[rickbat69]

 

Very weak argument there. What I propose is that your personal effort is worth more, so the bellow average players will progress even slower and the good players will not be held back so bad by the terrible players.

 

 

And here - no. Winning should not be worth so insanely much. You can easily make people do things like cap bases and such if you make capping a base or assisting in it worth as much as 50.000 damage. Bam, everyone will try to cap. Thats how it should be. Right now you get the WORST of both worlds. You get nothing no matter how good you play when losing. You get a crapload even if you played terrible when winning. The objectives (e.g. caps in domination) are worth northing in xp/credits, so everyone ignores them and DDs go off and deal as much damage as they can.

 

I just capped B, C and D with my DD, sank 3 ships and we lost because enemy stole B and C back while my team decided not to stop them and never even try to get them back. They simply failed around in our starting point and died slowly. Meanwhile I capped 3 points, did over 100k damage and got what? 700 xp.

 

What you say is that because we lost, everything I did was worth nothing and I should just afk if things look grim, because there is no point even trying to do anything when losing, because your XP will be crap anyway.

 

you got serious issues go seek help.

 

or better just improve your own play

[Syrchalis]

 

you got serious issues go seek help.

 

or better just improve your own play

 

Maybe you should do that, sir 41% winrate.

[Hurme_Ulina]

 

you got serious issues go seek help.

 

or better just improve your own play

 

Well that was really helpful...

 

I just feel like that gap between xp gain of winning and losing side is there to give a more competitive feel to matches. Everyone Most of the players have a reason to try and win if there is enough rewards to do that. And this also discourages afking and botting to some extension. Of course that extra xp for winners makes verbal abuse and selfishness a more common thing when everybody is playing first and foremost for themselves. That's not a bad thing itself, heck I always play with my own interests in mind, but sometimes you need to sacrifice that personal gain to help your team to win.

 

And yes, I too get annoyed when a great match ends with a defeat. But that just makes victories that much sweeter, knowing that you (and maybe your team also) did something right and now you get compensated for that.    

[pun_za_kette]

XP gain is not just related to the damage you do, but also to the targets you deal the damage to. If you're a top tier DD and damage only low tier enemys or kill those the XP gain is less as if you were damaging same or higher tier enemys. 

And getting 700xp in a loss is really shitty, most of the time when I perform well in a loss I get like 1k or maybe 900. But if it's less it was a shitty round. 

 

I think there's nothing or at least not much wrong with the xp gain in a win/loss. 

[J_Fuller]

One easy solution would be to do what was done in WoT and make the medals count...

[Syrchalis]

I just feel like that gap between xp gain of winning and losing side is there to give a more competitive feel to matches. Everyone Most of the players have a reason to try and win if there is enough rewards to do that. And this also discourages afking and botting to some extension. Of course that extra xp for winners makes verbal abuse and selfishness a more common thing when everybody is playing first and foremost for themselves. That's not a bad thing itself, heck I always play with my own interests in mind, but sometimes you need to sacrifice that personal gain to help your team to win.

 

And yes, I too get annoyed when a great match ends with a defeat. But that just makes victories that much sweeter, knowing that you (and maybe your team also) did something right and now you get compensated for that.    

 

I know where you are coming from, but I highly believe that the game would be a lot better if you got properly rewarded for your efforts. I mean, losing or not losing, if you did 5 (15 times if you are DD) times the damage your ship can take you deserve a goddamn medal, no matter wether you win or not. Right now the game is like - hey look, that guy basically won the game by himself, but due to bad luck he had morons as teammates that somehow managed to perform so badly you lost anyway and because of that he doesn't deserve any amount of XP or credits that could be considered worthwhile.

[pun_za_kette]

That's the incentive. If you would get good rewards for "performing well" and not winning, why would anyone try to actually win a game if he can "just perform well" to get the same reward? Such a system to actually judge if someone is performing well and deserves good XP is in place right now... If you perform well, and the rest of your team too, you win and get the big reward. Why would anyone expect anything else? In WoT you get the "winning XP" when you got certain medals due to your performance even when you lose. Something like that might come to WoWS as well some day. But I think it will not be something like "Devastating Strike" or "First Blood" rather something like "Confederate" or "High Caliber".

But anything less just doesn't deserve the winners XP IMO.

Sometimes you just have bad luck with your team, one can only carry so many players, but not 11

[Syrchalis]

That's the incentive. If you would get good rewards for "performing well" and not winning, why would anyone try to actually win a game if he can "just perform well" to get the same reward? Such a system to actually judge if someone is performing well and deserves good XP is in place right now... If you perform well, and the rest of your team too, you win and get the big reward. Why would anyone expect anything else? In WoT you get the "winning XP" when you got certain medals due to your performance even when you lose. Something like that might come to WoWS as well some day. But I think it will not be something like "Devastating Strike" or "First Blood" rather something like "Confederate" or "High Caliber".

But anything less just doesn't deserve the winners XP IMO.

Sometimes you just have bad luck with your team, one can only carry so many players, but not 11

So even you say that high caliber = winner XP.

 

That's my point. I get that achievement really often. Then end up with 1k XP at most because we lost due to morons.

[pun_za_kette]

1k xp in a loss isn't really bad at all... Most of the times you still get more than half the enemy team with that kind of xp. I really don't see a point in complaining about this at this point in developement. Maybe they will bring something in the 4.1 patch?

[Syrchalis]

1k xp in a loss isn't really bad at all... Most of the times you still get more than half the enemy team with that kind of xp. I really don't see a point in complaining about this at this point in developement. Maybe they will bring something in the 4.1 patch?

 

I'm a game developer myself and trust me when I say - if noone would complain, games would be crap. Feedback is something that is insanely important for players, meaning that they get a response for an action (e.g. a sound and animation when pressing a button) but this also goes for developers. They need a response on their work or they can't improve it properly.

 

You say 1k xp in a loss is a lot, but in that you already considered in the loss. If I did that on a win I had done NOTHING MORE so I should get NOTHING MORE. But I would get 3x that. Here a win with about the same of what I did on that loss.

 

 

[Yamiji]

I like how mediocre players are defending their "I'm bad, but I am on the winning team" bonus. I completely agree with OP, too many times your best contribution, 4 kills and Confederate amount to nothing, because rest of your team plants daisies on spawn...

Right now it often feels like you are punished for playing good.

[Syrchalis]

If it was for me, winning would give a flat bonus based on game length. Not a multiplier that basically says: "Since you won your contribution is worth 200% more" or "Since you lost your contribution is worth 66% less" like it is right now.

 

Something like Game length*25=Winning XP. Every other source of XP is your contribution.

 

That would mean that winning is still worth something (that matters), but really good players on the losing side would at least get something for their effort. If you have a bad game or just are very unlucky you do still get some XP if winning.

[J_Fuller]

"Since you lost your contribution is worth 66% less" 

 

 

That I belive is not correct... Draws and the lossing team shows the "normal" xp.

But well, I don't think it is to bad a system we have now... I give you credit for some of the stuff we already have agreed on, but I don't really find the current system to be broken

[Syrchalis]

But well, I don't think it is to bad a system we have now... I give you credit for some of the stuff we already have agreed on, but I don't really find the current system to be broken

 

I don't think it's really bad - on a scale from 1 to 10 somewhere around maybe 5? But it could be better and easily so. There is nothing complicated or tricky required to make it better, that's what bothers me. It's not breaking the game for me, but it's always a hit to the gut when you have high caliber and confederate and get what? 1000xp?

 

Also I said "or" - basically if you win your normal XP gets multiplied by 2 or 3. You could look at it the other way around, meaning if you lose it gets divided by 2 or 3 - the result is the same.

[pun_za_kette]

The problem with the "flat bonus" for a win would be, that some people get that flat bonus for doing nothing at all. i.e. idling from the spawn or being AFK etc. Those people would benefit from such a system thus punishing everyone else on the team for having to carry the lazy asses even more. I think it is good the win and loss xp are that much different. It gives more incentive to perform better and actually win a game.

Sometimes this results in a player fullfilling his role i.e. holding off an enemy advance but dying really quick compared to lemmi-ing with the rest of the team but securing the win. In this case he get's more xp for being on the winning team, because his "poor performance" gets boosted by being on the winning team a lot more.