HE Discussion.

[DontShootBrah]

I think that the HE system needs a little bit of a rework within the game, the fires are insanely out of control.

Yesterday I managed to sink an Yamato in a T7 ship, just because I kept causing fires from my Napalm Shells.

 

Today, I got sunk by 2 T5 Omaha's with their 1mm puckleHEfiring guns, not a single omaha struck me with its torpedoes, just the insane napalm barrage.

It feels like the crews scrub the decks with gasoline, or other highly flammable liquids.

[luckypat]

100% Agree! When facing more than 1 cruiser with a battleship you have only a very small chance to survive. If your bb has a good range you can stay at range but as the maps have borders sooner or later they will get closer and the barbecue will start.

[DarthMurloc]

This was one of the reasons I scrapped my BB. Lower tier CAs are able to burn me down as they please. Fire on board? Use repair - fire extingui... nope. Two more additional fires added. Consumable hasn't finished working and I have 2 brand new fires raging like my BB was a dry haystack. 

 

And I read somewhere that fire mechanic on a BB is to balance their high armor and damage...

[Dark_Order]

1st hit fire, 2nd hit fire. Use repair ability. 3rd hit fire, 4th hit fire. Constantly burning down combined with stock Furutaka made me almost rage quit. (Alt + F4)

[simonmd]

You guys seem to not understand the roll of a cruiser, especially the more heavy cruisers in the higher tiers. They are designed to hunt and kill Battleships! The Heavy cruiser is basically a Battleship without so much heavy armor, this allows for better speed and maneuverability. Look at the infamous HMS Hood, she was the flagship of the British Navy but she wasn't a battleship, she was a heavy cruiser.

 

There is no reason why being constantly on fire would not eventually kill a BB, these things are littered with combustable things, oil tanks, ammo, etc. so why not? Also, its wrong to look at HE as a 'napalm barrage' , they are High Explosive and do cause alot of critical damage as well. I think a trick I can pass on here is DONT use your repair ability as soon as a fire starts if youre under attack, wait until another couple of salvos have hit as if you use it right away, the next fire that starts will just burn for ages before its recharged. Better to wait 30 secs under fire than to have to wait 2 mins for the next repair to be available. Same applies if youre under torpedo attack, dont stop flooding right away if there is a chance of another hit as youll be unable to stop the water coming in on the second one if you do.

[Scilya]

 the hood was classified as a battlecruser it was basicaly a fast battleship though

[ilhilh]

Either the chance of fire needs to drop or the damage it can achieve needs reducing (either less damage/sec or reducing ho long a fire lasts).  It is too easy with high RoF ships to not only start fires but quickly push them into a siren inducing lvl 3 fire that savages your ship.

 

Yesterday in my Myogi I had a Phoenix and Kuma chasing me... got set on fire, left it, got lvl 2 fire, repaired, got lvl 1...2... then 3 fire in the space of perhaps 2 minutes.  That is ridiculous.  As it happened my HP pool was high enough to just weather that storm and I smashed both of them up (kills 3 and 4) and we won with me getting fireproof 

 

That being said, I bet there are not many people who pick damage reducing perks for their captains...

[ilhilh]

You guys seem to not understand the roll of a cruiser, especially the more heavy cruisers in the higher tiers. They are designed to hunt and kill Battleships! The Heavy cruiser is basically a Battleship without so much heavy armor, this allows for better speed and maneuverability. Look at the infamous HMS Hood, she was the flagship of the British Navy but she wasn't a battleship, she was a heavy cruiser.

 

There is no reason why being constantly on fire would not eventually kill a BB, these things are littered with combustable things, oil tanks, ammo, etc. so why not? Also, its wrong to look at HE as a 'napalm barrage' , they are High Explosive and do cause alot of critical damage as well. I think a trick I can pass on here is DONT use your repair ability as soon as a fire starts if youre under attack, wait until another couple of salvos have hit as if you use it right away, the next fire that starts will just burn for ages before its recharged. Better to wait 30 secs under fire than to have to wait 2 mins for the next repair to be available. Same applies if youre under torpedo attack, dont stop flooding right away if there is a chance of another hit as youll be unable to stop the water coming in on the second one if you do.

 

The Suffolk and Norfolk were examples of heavy cruisers and they shadowed the Bismarck reporting her position for the capital ships - they were not designed as battleship killers with their 8in guns.  The Hood was in no way a Heavy Cruiser...

[MechaSheep]

100% Agree! When facing more than 1 cruiser with a battleship you have only a very small chance to survive. If your bb has a good range you can stay at range but as the maps have borders sooner or later they will get closer and the barbecue will start.

 

And why should any class be able to face 2:1 odds and win at all, even with "a very small chance"?

 

with 2:1 odds you should die without dealing more than 25% damage (or 50% of one) to the combined healthpool of two enemies, if the game is balanced correctly.

[posthumecaver]

Yeah, the value of the BB paint must be really high because a non penetrating HE shell will only burn the superstructure of BB and nothing more.

 

But it seems the value of the paint must be so high that it cost you 70K damage.

 

And no battlecruiser are not there to hunt BBs, they are there to protect BBs against other cruisers, DDs and airplanes but of course in the game nobody cares about protecting the BBs because there is no reward for it.

 

Personally I stick with my BBs to provide aircover for them and when enemy heavies spot the BBs most of time they shoot the BB instead of me

[Thejagdpanther]

Some suggestion, to chose and/or to discuss:

• decrease the % of fire from HE shells
• decrease the duration of a fire
• decrease the rate of fire of some ships (thats one meh, but hey...)
• give some interesting skill (instead of a pathetic -7% or -3% or whatever risk of fire)
• reduce the reload of the repair ability

 

jeez im on water, I think that I can be more safe from fire in a iron foundry XD

[Blue_Qbe]

[lokisrun]

The problem with making battleships so vulnerable to fire is that they are already pretty vulnerable to the main guns of other battleships and torpedoes from Carriers and Destroyers. HE shells essentially bypass the only real strength of BB's other than their guns and that is their high armour and HP. With even low level cruisers being able to rapid fire HE at Battleships doing constant impact damage in addition to setting them repeatedly on fire, it just adds another weakness to Battleships already stunning array of weaknesses.

[Orkel2]

It just needs halving everything. Halve fire damage, halve fire chance, halve fire duration, halve HE explosion damage.

[tfioi]

What about another approach?
My suggestion is to lower/shave off the cooldown to Damage Control Party (both normal and premium one) for few seconds (5 to max 10)

and increase the time you can not take any module/fire dmg, also for few seconds.

 

Now why am I not for lowering fires and fire dmg directly is cause:

a) BB could drag the games on and on

b) It's a game, you need some effective counter play

[simonmd]

 the hood was classified as a battlecruser it was basicaly a fast battleship though

 

Thats my point, whats yours? Simply put, higher tier cruisers wit ha skilled captain are a match for a BB, especially if theres two of them. On the other side, a BB that cant sink a cruiser in 3 or 4 salvos needs to adjust how they are firing and what theyre firing with.

[SENAdmiral]

URGENTLY reduce the fire damages on a BB, its ridiculous to see 1 k / sec damage NON STOP - since the napalm HE  shells are able to set on fire even the water near a BB !!!

[lokisrun]

 

Thats my point, whats yours? Simply put, higher tier cruisers are a match for a BB, especially if theres two of them.

 

There's a big difference between a Heavy Cruiser and a Battlecruiser, a heavy cruiser is any cruiser class ship with 8 inch or approximate sized guns. On the other hand Battlecruisers mounted Battleships sized guns, 14 inch or larger generally and had much higher displacement than Heavy Cruisers. Neither Heavy Cruisers nor Battlecruisers were designed with the intent of hunting and destroying Battleships in reality.

 

The mechanics of this game mean that ALL Cruisers, light, heavy or otherwise are capable of dealing enormous damage to enemy Battleships. While I agree that 2 Cruisers probably should be able to take out a Battleship fairly easily, it's pretty common that a single Cruiser can accomplish that task themselves due to a combination of higher DPM than battleships, higher rate of fire, greater manoeuvrability and speed. The only advantages the Battleship has is greater armour (nullified by HE), larger calibre guns (nullified by long reload and reliance on RNG citadel penetrations to make up the difference in DPM) and HP, HP being the only advantage that isn't immediately nullified by something else.

 

As a player of both Battleships and Cruisers, I certainly feel that HE is over-performing right now.

[MilkPowder]

 

The mechanics of this game mean that ALL Cruisers, light, heavy or otherwise are capable of dealing enormous damage to enemy Battleships. While I agree that 2 Cruisers probably should be able to take out a Battleship fairly easily, it's pretty common that a single Cruiser can accomplish that task themselves due to a combination of higher DPM than battleships, higher rate of fire, greater manoeuvrability and speed. The only advantages the Battleship has is greater armour (nullified by HE), larger calibre guns (nullified by long reload and reliance on RNG citadel penetrations to make up the difference in DPM) and HP, HP being the only advantage that isn't immediately nullified by something else.

 

As a player of both Battleships and Cruisers, I certainly feel that HE is over-performing right now.

 

Agreed, HE and fires do ridiculous damage. I had a blast in the phoenix/omaha and now the cleveland. They just annihilate battleships consistently, the battleship really has to get lucky or I have to do something dumb like drive in a straight line for the battleship to have a chance.

[Orkel2]

If HE stays as is, it will kill this game. Many people I know, me included, have already completely stopped playing battleships as a whole because of how unbelievably broken HE and fires have been since the alpha stage of this game.

And the developers still say that "fires are OK" on the russian forums, it's absolutely baffling how incompetent the current people in charge of balance are. I hope there will be a change in the future. At the moment there is no reason to play BBs because they are countered by every other class in the game, either by torpedoes or HE spam. They can get a few citadel hits every now and then, but only masochists are willing to suffer though the fire spam just for that one "13,700" popping up maybe once a battle.

[Hesp]

I think that the HE system needs a little bit of a rework within the game, the fires are insanely out of control.

Yesterday I managed to sink an Yamato in a T7 ship, just because I kept causing fires from my Napalm Shells.

 

Today, I got sunk by 2 T5 Omaha's with their 1mm puckleHEfiring guns, not a single omaha struck me with its torpedoes, just the insane napalm barrage.

It feels like the crews scrub the decks with gasoline, or other highly flammable liquids.

Your performance on battleships is very good, why do you want more and more and more asking destroy one of the main advantages of cruising?

Frankly I find very selfish.

 

What they really need battleships It is an improved accuracy at all distances and not invulnerability to all.

[chazwozza]

 

Thats my point, whats yours? Simply put, higher tier cruisers wit ha skilled captain are a match for a BB, especially if theres two of them. On the other side, a BB that cant sink a cruiser in 3 or 4 salvos needs to adjust how they are firing and what theyre firing with.

 

4 salvos is 2 mins against 2 cruisers it would be tough to survive that long the way it is. Also a lot of cruisers carry torps which also kills slow hulks like BBs its bad enough with the CV and DD torps

[Ampen]

Your performance on battleships is very good, why do you want more and more and more asking destroy one of the main advantages of cruising?

Frankly I find very selfish.

 

What they really need battleships It is an improved accuracy at all distances and not invulnerability to all.

 

I would say his statistics for battleships in general is showing a win in 1 game out of 3. You're sure you're not just looking at how often he plays battleships, that is what % amount of games he chooses to play BB instead of other classes?

[SENAdmiral]

Fully agree, HE become almost an exploit, its ridiculous to watch a Clevi parking his MG  sorry, not machine-guns but guns with MG RoF - and use his Napalm belt on a BB, able to keep an nonstop rain of Napalm until you burn to death, unable to shoot sometimes cuz we have "realistic effects" on gun sights , and before you reload twice 3/4 of your mighty BB its burned to bone... if you do not pray enough at RNG shitty god, be sure you will burn to death long before you will land a deadly blow...

 

Just look at the huge chunk of Clevi skippers, coming near to BB.s and just putting the Napalm death ray on the target, then waiting there 30-45 sec until the fire took all HP...

[indycar]

You guys seem to not understand the roll of a cruiser, especially the more heavy cruisers in the higher tiers. They are designed to hunt and kill Battleships! The Heavy cruiser is basically a Battleship without so much heavy armor, this allows for better speed and maneuverability. Look at the infamous HMS Hood, she was the flagship of the British Navy but she wasn't a battleship, she was a heavy cruiser.

 

There is no reason why being constantly on fire would not eventually kill a BB, these things are littered with combustable things, oil tanks, ammo, etc. so why not? Also, its wrong to look at HE as a 'napalm barrage' , they are High Explosive and do cause alot of critical damage as well. I think a trick I can pass on here is DONT use your repair ability as soon as a fire starts if youre under attack, wait until another couple of salvos have hit as if you use it right away, the next fire that starts will just burn for ages before its recharged. Better to wait 30 secs under fire than to have to wait 2 mins for the next repair to be available. Same applies if youre under torpedo attack, dont stop flooding right away if there is a chance of another hit as youll be unable to stop the water coming in on the second one if you do.

 

ok i forgive you every fail you made in this post but you think hood was sunk by a HE shell ?????