Any news on when the skillships will be nerfed? (CVs)

[specialkha]

50% less damage output will bring down their performance much more then 20-30%. I told you already - they are supposed and will have ~ BB's avg stats (exp, WR).

Did I say DDs are powerful now? I said in which direction they can be made better instead of nerfing the CVs (so they don't spot them and their torps) or buffing their torps so that they simply become the torps spammers like tier 2-5 IJN DDs.

 

Tier 6+ are not so bad (boring) like tier 4 and 5, but I still had time to alt tab and do something else a lot. For me that's still boring when I don't have something to do 90%+ of the time.

 

They are supposed? I guess that is something the devs want about them. But since they are the ones that made the CVs what they are now, I can't say I agree with them. As they are now, longest/easiest/no rng/safest, they should be the weakest in term of damage output.

[Sharana]

They are supposed? I guess that is something the devs want about them. But since they are the ones that made the CVs what they are now, I can't say I agree with them. As they are now, longest/easiest/no rng/safest, they should be the weakest in term of damage output.

Yes they are capital ships in this game they are supposed to have good stats like the BBs. Damage is absolutely meaningless in WoWs when it comes to balance, I don't know when is this going to finally reach you. If you change them to stop touching BBs and other CVs, but have easier time killing DDs or CAs they will have much lwoer avg damage, but they will keep the same exp and carry potential (WR). That's your idea when you always speak about the damage? I really hope you will realise sometimes that damage and rewards depend on the primary target, no simply by the numbers. If you 300K avg damage on tier X (the hp of 2 Yamatos) with 3 000 avg exp and 50%WR you will be worse them another CV with 150K hp but 5 000 avg exp and 75% WR, because for that hp he killed few DDs and cruisers instead of simply 2 BBs.

 

You should read my question again:

Now a question to you if I may ask. How do you want to change the CVs? Not some abstarct theory, but real talk. CVs and BBs are capital ships, they have more weight in the MM, they live longer and deal more damage on avarage because of that. Those 2 classes will have close stats to each other. So how do you want to change carriers while letting them keep pretty much the same stats on avarage (USN CVs) and nerf the IJNs (5-8 tier) by ~30% (was done in 0.4.1 btw)?

Also how much do you want to change them based on random battles keeping in mind that there is also ranked battles, team battles later (clans will come Soon™) and Clan Wars or e-sport in the future and they have to play there too and be competitive.

 

[specialkha]

Sharana, on 17 August 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Yes they are capital ships in this game they are supposed to have good stats like the BBs. Damage is absolutely meaningless in WoWs when it comes to balance, I don't know when is this going to finally reach you. If you change them to stop touching BBs and other CVs, but have easier time killing DDs or CAs they will have much lwoer avg damage, but they will keep the same exp and carry potential (WR). That's your idea when you always speak about the damage? I really hope you will realise sometimes that damage and rewards depend on the primary target, no simply by the numbers. If you 300K avg damage on tier X (the hp of 2 Yamatos) with 3 000 avg exp and 50%WR you will be worse them another CV with 150K hp but 5 000 avg exp and 75% WR, because for that hp he killed few DDs and cruisers instead of simply 2 BBs.

 

You should read my question again:

 

 

The thing is I do not agree  with the idea of giving everything to a single class (range/survival rate/damage, etc...). Therefore we cannot agree on anything.

I think someone mentioned Star Conflict on another thread. That game had the same horrible gameplaywise decision taken. The first Tier were more or less balanced. Once in the higher tier, one class (Fregate) got everything: durability, long range firepower, short range firepower, etc... They just lacked mobility, but do you need that when you can take your time to kill your opponent and do so from the other side of the map? Don't you think that something similar is happening to Wows?
 

[DtXpwnz]

 

Tier 6+ are not so bad (boring) like tier 4 and 5, but I still had time to alt tab and do something else a lot. For me that's still boring when I don't have something to do 90%+ of the time.

You don't have to tell me, I bough Bogue yesterday and first map was Ocean... Not sure how I will survive playing these 1/1/1 decks (1/1 for Bogue).

[Deckeru_Maiku]

 

Video from the russian tournament - stage 1 with tier 4s now. So pretty much no AA, but do they feel like "pawns in a RTS match between 2 players"?

 

Anybody noticed that each team had a player with -1 kills in it?

TKs - they are EVERYWHERE!

[Sharana]

 

Anybody noticed that each team had a player with -1 kills in it?

TKs - they are EVERYWHERE!

 

They had to kill the streamers who fly in the free camera you know

[avenger121]

Yes they are capital ships in this game they are supposed to have good stats like the BBs. Damage is absolutely meaningless in WoWs when it comes to balance, I don't know when is this going to finally reach you. If you change them to stop touching BBs and other CVs, but have easier time killing DDs or CAs they will have much lwoer avg damage, but they will keep the same exp and carry potential (WR). That's your idea when you always speak about the damage? I really hope you will realise sometimes that damage and rewards depend on the primary target, no simply by the numbers. If you 300K avg damage on tier X (the hp of 2 Yamatos) with 3 000 avg exp and 50%WR you will be worse them another CV with 150K hp but 5 000 avg exp and 75% WR, because for that hp he killed few DDs and cruisers instead of simply 2 BBs.

 

Pure [edited].

 

I´m lacking words, this is [edited] coated [edited] with [edited] filling.

 

The enemy as whole has a HP pool and everyone should achieve the same propotion as dmg of it. Ofc, are those 17900 HP of the Shimakaze more worth than 20.000 of the Montanas HP. But it is not like you can choose what you have to kill. I dont go into a game and say, I only kill DDs, because of this my average dmg is lower. As DD for example you mainly hunt BBs, but this doesnt mean you dont try to kill other DDs, CAs or CVs. Every class has it´s preferred enemy class because it can kill it rather easily, but this doesnt mean I dont attack any other class, it´s not like you could choose. Endgame, only 2 enemies are alive, both CA - does this mean I go afk and quit the game? Did I just just loose all my torpedos and guns so I cant attack with my DD?!

 

Even, when you believe in this [edited], DDs harass mainly BBs, which have the highest HP pool. So, how does it come that DDs have by far the lowest avg dmg per match?

[Praetorias]

I am totally fed up with this crap as well. carriers are a nightmare. Driven by kids wanting an i win button, guaranteed kills. It is often impossible to avoid their torp planes no matter what ships and how much i move and evade. They can drop 3 metres from my damn hull.  How can any carrier player claim they are not OP or that they are not padding their stats with a ship they cant lose with.

[Sharana]

 But it is not like you can choose what you have to kill.

Yet it's reflected in the avg exp stats and not in the avg damage stats.

[avenger121]

Yet it's reflected in the avg exp stats and not in the avg damage stats.

What? What is reflected in avg exp stats?

You want to tell me that DDs get higher xp for the same dmg as BBs?! So there is a class specific multiplier?!

 

 

 

Since you came with this mazy theroy; could you explain me this phenomenon:

"DDs harass mainly BBs, which have the highest HP pool. So, how does it come that DDs have by far the lowest avg dmg per match?"

[Hannibalurg]

What? What is reflected in avg exp stats?

You want to tell me that DDs get higher xp for the same dmg as BBs?! So there is a class specific multiplier?!

 

 

 

Since you came with this mazy theroy; could you explain me this phenomenon:

"DDs harass mainly BBs, which have the highest HP pool. So, how does it come that DDs have by far the lowest avg dmg per match?"

 

Main reason DD's have lowest avg. dmg pr match is because they are often the once who are first blooded.

 

I First blooded you yesterday on Ice Islands.

 

[Sharana]

avenger121, on 17 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

What? What is reflected in avg exp stats?

% of the enemy ship gives XP. When you have high avg damage and lower avg XP you go after the BBs. When you have much lower avg damage, but better avg XP you attacked mainly lower hp targets like DDs and CAs.

The avg damage is useless as balance stat, the avg XP that represents your contribution (% of enemy ships hp) is definitely not.

 

I posted the last video from the russian tournament here, so I will use the same topic.

 

The old CBT smoke tactics during the CBT tournament (the smokes were nerfed because of this battle btw)

Spoiler

 

 

Now the first team I saw with DD and pretty good use of the smokes (5:01) and this is working as intended when it comes to the smoke as support tool, not the old ones

 

[anonym_GrNnnWjgsPlq]

I did consider this New York a target 4 times. Each time he proved to me that he was not gonna be easy pray.

In the first two attempts when I noticed that he is evading I quickly changed to the most optimal and closest target. I left those two attacks to show the difference between easy and hard target.

I also do abuse here the ufo physics of the planes so it's not like I was really holding up against him. 

 

 

Once again, I enjoyed what that New York was doing immensely. Just well played.

 

No, the only point you've proven is that even a really good player is going to eat 5 out of 10 torps of semi-decent carrier player. Yeah, mucho skillo involved in playing CV... really, go f** urself and your silly passive-aggressive anime pix and enjoy your skillcarrier as long as it lasts.

[avenger121]

 

Main reason DD's have lowest avg. dmg pr match is because they are often the once who are first blooded.

 

I First blooded you yesterday on Ice Islands.

 

I am pretty sure you didnt first blood me on Ice Islands, screenshot or it didnt happen. I can only remember one match with you, on 2 brothers.

 

 

Besides the fact that you go ad hominem, that you just say that there are no skilled DD players in the forums, that all DDs player have simply no skill, and that you said that you "rule the sea" withy your 30k avg dmg per match Minekaze;

 

DDs players cant stick with the blob if they want to bring more than  1 or 2 torpedos only in the late-game into the target.

[Hannibalurg]

I am pretty sure you didnt first blood me on Ice Islands, screenshot or it didnt happen. I can only remember one match with you, on 2 brothers.

 

 

Besides the fact that you go ad hominem, that you just say that there are no skilled DD players in the forums, that all DDs player have simply no skill, and that you said that you "rule the sea" withy your 30k avg dmg per match Minekaze;

 

DDs players cant stick with the blob if they want to bring more than  1 or 2 torpedos only in the late-game into the target.

 

I never said i ruled the sea, least of all in DDs.

I did FB you, we laughed about it on teamspeak as we know your unstoppable QQ from the forums. 

 

[viceadmiral123]

I started the climbing the battleships tree after unlocking the t10 carrier, and I find it extremely easy to avoid torpedos in my battleship with stock hull. Last few games I played, I got hit by a total of 3 torpedos from maybe 10 bomber drops and 2 torpedos out of 20-30 destroyer launched.

[deathrow222]

I started the climbing the battleships tree after unlocking the t10 carrier, and I find it extremely easy to avoid torpedos in my battleship with stock hull. Last few games I played, I got hit by a total of 3 torpedos from maybe 10 bomber drops and 2 torpedos out of 20-30 destroyer launched.

 

yeah right, you must be playing against complete [edited] in cv that uses auto drop than, i myself have the tier 10 unlocked and im not a great player in cv but when i go for some one hes going to take the torps and he can turn as much as he wants.

and the biggest problem is unballanced mm so much fun when MM decide with team is going to win for 95% by giving other team more cv and higher tiered

[Hannibalurg]

 

yeah right, you must be playing against complete [edited] in cv that uses auto drop than, i myself have the tier 10 unlocked and im not a great player in cv but when i go for some one hes going to take the torps and he can turn as much as he wants.

and the biggest problem is unballanced mm so much fun when MM decide with team is going to win for 95% by giving other team more cv and higher tiered

 

Nope, try and play carrier and you will quickly become better at dodging torpedo planes. It's not that hard. DD torps on the otherhand, another tale entirely. 

[Iron_Gekko]

 

yeah right, you must be playing against complete [edited] in cv that uses auto drop than, i myself have the tier 10 unlocked and im not a great player in cv but when i go for some one hes going to take the torps and he can turn as much as he wants.

and the biggest problem is unballanced mm so much fun when MM decide with team is going to win for 95% by giving other team more cv and higher tiered

 

Sounds more like he was playing against you.

 

I have done the exact same as Viceadmiral, it could just be the Kongo or the Fuso that is magical but I almost never die to torp bombers either, ditto leaving the possibility.... that some people really don't know what they are doing?

[deathrow222]

Hannibalurg, on 18 August 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

 

Nope, try and play carrier and you will quickly become better at dodging torpedo planes. It's not that hard. DD torps on the otherhand, another tale entirely. 

 

if you read a little bit better i say i have the tier 10 unlocked and even that im not a great player in the cv i have totaly no problem hitting any kind of bb, cruiser or dd with my torp planes, you atack them they start turning you readjust and hit them

and now you are telling me that you can out turn planes that drop their torps right into your face but you cant out turn torps from a dd that give you way more reaction time?

 

 

 

Iron_Gekko, on 18 August 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

Sounds more like he was playing against you.

 

I have done the exact same as Viceadmiral, it could just be the Kongo or the Fuso that is magical but I almost never die to torp bombers either, ditto leaving the possibility.... that some people really don't know what they are doing?

 

 

wait until you get some higher tier BB cuz most of the experiended players in cv are playing the high tiers

 

[viceadmiral123]

In higher tiers, you take more hits because your ship is longer. But you take less floodings and fires both in chance to occur and damage over time, and you have more HP to work with. And you get a decent AA. I do very well against the t5-t6 CV players I've played against with my battleship. I don't expect to win a 1v1 against a carrier I can't even catch up to with my slow potato, but I dodge and kill planes, heal the damage, and continue with the team objective.

I've been getting a lot of 2 and 3 fire procs from one dive bomber squad drop with my t9 carrier. The t8 and above battleships are just enormous targets for dive bombers, forget the torpedos.

[ironhammer500]

 

 

wait until you get some higher tier BB cuz most of the experiended players in cv are playing the high tiers

 

Well the high tier CVs are good at drops and so on, but i don't really fear CVs and  torp bombers in my NC anymore, in fact i love it when they send waves of bombers into my AA because i destroy 2-3 squadrons at once also the NC is  goods at turning so i can keep his planes in my AA longer.

[Hannibalurg]

 

if you read a little bit better i say i have the tier 10 unlocked and even that im not a great player in the cv i have totaly no problem hitting any kind of bb, cruiser or dd with my torp planes, you atack them they start turning you readjust and hit them

and now you are telling me that you can out turn planes that drop their torps right into your face but you cant out turn torps from a dd that give you way more reaction time?

 

 

Well i'v unlocked Tier 10 BB, but i am not a good player with it. Just play something enough and you will eventually get it.

"Throw enough spaggetti at the wall, and some will stick"

 

Yes, you can outturn TB drops, not every attempt will be successful but if you keep your planes above me trying to get a better angle in response to my turning, you will lose planes, and then it will become even easier to dodge torpedos. USN TB's on the otherhand, not that easy to dodge.

 

 

[ironhammer500]

 

Well i'v unlocked Tier 10 BB, but i am not a good player with it. Just play something enough and you will eventually get it.

"Throw enough spaggetti at the wall, and some will stick"

 

Yes, you can outturn TB drops, not every attempt will be successful but if you keep your planes above me trying to get a better angle in response to my turning, you will lose planes, and then it will become even easier to dodge torpedos. USN TB's on the otherhand, not that easy to dodge.

 

 

 

Yea its the US Cvs that are giving me the headache, the IJN are easy enough with the huge spread and only 4 planes so if the CV is an idiot he will send them in 1 by 1, rather then in a mass clump like the good ones do, which is just instant kill for a BB since  you wont dodge 12 torps..at 500m.

[Tugnut]

The thing with CV biggest issue when going in to open beta LOTS of players new to the game and the Alphas and closed beta players that know how to play a CV well.  this caused a big clash of dead new players and op CV players. you then got your open beta players that pick up and learn (youtube streams forums) how to play CV well to. so the op cv players still around even though a lot are streaming up the tiers.  

 

But now in the game i see a LOT of players that just have no clue how to play the CV and a lot of players that gone though all the CV "issues" before and now know how to limit the CV rule over the sea.     just played a game now if all the hype was correct my team should of lost we had a t4 CV vs a t5 and a t4 CV. but in all honesty all 3 CV players was not that great. and the game was won with good ole ship to ship battles and our team played more as a team than the enemy (maybe they thought yup 2 CV our side its in the bag and forgot to play.)

 

Now we got the patch inc soon and will ballence the CV in the game.... now in a way this will help BB that end up with no CV on there side to at least maybe offer them some fighter cover pmsl     but in a effect will be a big plus to the CV players not having to play vs 2 or a lot higher CVs.

 

and the skilled CV players will still make it feel OP!   

 

not sure if any WG staff can say that the stats for CV's lvl 4 to 6 are lowering compaired to OB start? would be intresting to see.