Any news on when the skillships will be nerfed? (CVs)

[Iron_Gekko]

 

0/20, you did not answer to the question. The question was why should it have all of that at the same time?

 

Not answering questions, funny coming from you specialkha, could you please revisit our previous conversation located a few pages back where you ignore everything presented to you?

 

I'll take you're repeated silence when it comes as a conformation to not only myself but anybody bothering to read you're posts that you aren't able to do that since you already proved you're clueless.

[Hannibalurg]

 

0/20, you did not answer to the question. The question was why should it have all of that at the same time?

 

Why not ask the same question of why Shimekaze/ Gearing can send torps vs a Montana/Yamato without letting the M/Y shoot back due to detection?

Same simple answer: Varity in ships, all ships are avaiible for everyone and serve different roles. Not that hard to understand.

[Iron_Gekko]

 

It is not like we were talking about the influence of a CV over the outcome of a game.

 

But since you got that big mouth of you, answer this.

 

Why should the longest range/safest/easiest/no RNG class be the top damage dealer?

 

Already answered this twice, please revisit previous posts and stop wasting time, I feel my IQ drop every time I have to address you.

[OVanBruce]

 

CV is only the big bad wolf because people make it, I've done BB on midtier where CV's are suppose to be at the highest OP level or whatever it's called these days. In the games I have had I was only killed once, which is less then the two times I got torped by a friendly DD/CA.

 

The majority of the players simply don't play this to a level where they understand how easy it is to counter, thus they don't bother staying close to CA's or pulling hard rubber when there is an obvious torp bomber train going for them, I mean 80% of the kills is based around finding the tool who lone wolfs it and then tunnel visions. It's not exactly rocket science why the CV is doing well, it allows you to quickly exploit the people who clearly don't don't know how to play.

 

Sorry but that is how it is, sympathies a lot with other players, but then some players just ask for it.

 

If CVs could only exploit to great effect those lone wolfs... the problem comes too when a CV is top tier and can attack a group of 3 or 4 ships together without losing a single plane. Even if there is a CA using the panic button some of the torps will hit and the damage will be done. And let's not mention if the panic button is on cooldown

[Hannibalurg]

 

Yep, you've played a lot of classes but not very effectively judging by your average damage and winrate. This is what I was refering to when playing seriously other classes.

 

Also, calm down, I'm not insulting you.

 

I don't play Yamato while not in a divison for the simple reason i basicly played BB at the same pace as the top CV, giving me to many games without CV on my side. Once CV matchmaking is fixed in 0.4.1 i will play more BB than CV. And i did become alot better at dodging CV's after playing them, and understanding them.

[specialkha]

 

Not answering questions, funny coming from you specialkha, could you please revisit our previous conversation located a few pages back where you ignore everything presented to you?

 

I'll take you're repeated silence when it comes as a conformation to not only myself but anybody bothering to read you're posts that you aren't able to do that since you already proved you're clueless.

 

So that means you can't answer the question as well? So how are you better than me?

[Iron_Gekko]

 

If CVs could only exploit to great effect those lone wolfs... the problem comes too when a CV is top tier and can attack a group of 3 or 4 ships together without losing a single plane. Even if there is a CA using the panic button some of the torps will hit and the damage will be done. And let's not mention if the panic button is on cooldown

 

I play a high tier CV and a midtier BB for a while now.

 

The panic button that puts out disruptive AA is unlimited... as for high level CV, have you seen what a high level CA Des Monies can do to airgroups? As for the you're valid point that some torps will hit regardless, these few torps are not that game changing as a BB can easily repair it, also pointing out that a few torps get through is the same as saying that some shots still hit when a BB fires a salvo.

 

The counters are there, it's just the MM that's a bit flunky at times or the fail platoons who drag low levels into a high level games, it's really not as bad as people make it out. Granted Midtier strike has to go but everything else comes down to the fact that some people just refuse to counter properly.

 

It's like a BB refusing to dodge DD torps, because they shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

Unlike other people, I won't name names because it's amazingly clear who the self taught professors are, you actually do have a lot of various games under you're belt and have a valid point, thank you for that.

[Iron_Gekko]

 

So that means you can't answer the question as well? So how are you better than me?

 

Please scroll back a few pages, as I said I already agree with you that the CV has the possibility to be overpowering when not countered properly.

 

But yeah I am more knowledgeable then you since I have apparently played the CV tiers that you haven't thus having tried it and can offer an educated reply.

 

Do you're homework and revisit the posts we exchanged a few pages back where I confront you're posts where you cannot handle it, other then that you should visit the doctor for a head check because we are back to the are you either simple or stubborn point again.

[Vanhal]

Funny though ... normally an overpowered class or ships gets over represented in the MM, because everybody is playing it.

But I very rarely see a game with 4 CV... Half the games I play don't have a single CV in them ! (which makes my Atlanta very sad)

 

But if I look at the number of Clevelands I meet (just an example ... The Cleveland is perfectly balanced and doesn't need any tweaking WG) They seem to be half the tier 6 population

 

MM is weird ATM.

1. Idk for others, but no level of OPness (be it real or false, it's not the point in this particular issue) would make me to play the carriers. I tried them quite a few times, after every change in alpha and closed beta. Even having great battle (dmg wise) i was falling asleep during the first half of the battle. I can say i was very interested in carriers when i first got to play, but the utterly horrible implementation of carriers is negating exactly all pleasure of playing. And i fairly like the rts genre. Unless they are removed and implemented totally anew with entire concept changed (and it won't) i'm never touching them for serious play (maybe just occasional check when the port slots will be at discount).

2. Cleveland perfectly balanced... sure, whatever you say.

3. Initial BB rush has already faded, great majority of players play in cruisers now, but...

4. ... MM seems to have minimal BB numbers necessary to start a battle, so i constantly see 3-4 tier battleships placed with 5-7 tier cruisers. Seems that the average cruiser tier is higher than average BB tier.

5. DD matchmaking is total bollocks. US DD are weak as hell, 90% of what i see are IJN, and the MM throws them totally at random, no tier or team equalizing. Sometimes no DD in one and 5 in other team, sometimes 5 per side, sometimes none at all.

[specialkha]

 

Please scroll back a few pages, as I said I already agree with you that the CV has the possibility to be overpowering when not countered properly.

 

But yeah I am more knowledgeable then you since I have apparently played the CV tiers that you haven't thus having tried it and can offer an educated reply.

 

Do you're homework and revisit the posts we exchanged a few pages back where I confront you're posts where you cannot handle it, other then that you should visit the doctor for a head check because we are back to the are you either simple or stubborn point again.

 

No, you still do not answer the question. Do you think, gamewisen balancewise, that this is a good idea to give everything to a signle unit, which means that force a team to behave like a team to counter 1 player?

 

And I did play T8+ during CBT, thank you.

[Sharana]

Why should the longest range/safest/easiest/no lowest RNG class be the top damage dealer?

 

Because that's the only way to represent CVs in the game and it's consciousness decision, one that was questioned (by some) since day 1, yet the majority feels otherwise. It fits the WG's fleet gameplay as a naval game (not tanks on water), so it's here. If they didn't want to represent CVs they wouldn't make a game about WWII or wouldn't at least spend entire year of the alpha bringing the CVs to WoWs. 

 

Now a question to you if I may ask. How do you want to change the CVs? Not some abstarct theory, but real talk. CVs and BBs are capital ships, they have more weight in the MM, they live longer and deal more damage on avarage because of that. Those 2 classes will have close stats to each other. So how do you want to change carriers while letting them keep pretty much the same stats on avarage (USN CVs) and nerf the IJNs (5-8 tier) by ~30% (was done in 0.4.1 btw)?

Also how much do you want to change them based on random battles keeping in mind that there is also ranked battles, team battles later (clans will come Soon™) and Clan Wars or e-sport in the future and they have to play there too and be competitive.

 

Vanhal, on 17 August 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

Even having great battle (dmg wise) i was falling asleep during the first half of the battle.

The tier 4-6 CVs are extremely boring, for me even sub tier 8. I don't know any CV captain who is enjoying them, they are seen as painful grind. Do you think Kawachi represents the Yamato gameplay? I was watching youtube videos and editing my guides for OBT while I was grinding the CVs till tier 6 or 7. Yet on tier X I rarely have time to type in the chat. The real challenge and enjoyment comes on tier 9-10.

[Iron_Gekko]

 

No, you still do not answer the question. Do you think, gamewisen balancewise, that this is a good idea to give everything to a signle unit, which means that force a team to behave like a team to counter 1 player?

 

And I did play T8+ during CBT, thank you.

 

Congrats on achieving T8 glad you finally got out of the strike farming which is going to be nerfed, which was the main point we all agreed on.

 

Please address my questions as I have already addressed yours, you pointless troll.

 

Also you have changed you're question what, 3 times now? Is the one you present now the correct format or are you going to change it again if I answer it?

[Iron_Gekko]

 

Because that's the only way to represent CVs in the game and it's consciousness decision, one that was questioned (by some) since day 1, yet the majority feels otherwise. It fits the WG's fleet gameplay as a naval game (not tanks on water), so it's here. If they didn't want to represent CVs they wouldn't make a game about WWII or wouldn't at least spend entire year of the alpha bringind the CVs to WoWs. 

 

Now a question to you if I may ask. How do you want to CVs? Not some abstarct theory, but real talk. CVs and BBs are capital ships, they have more weight in the MM, they live longer and deal more damage on avarage because of that. Those 2 classes will have close stats to each other. So how do you want to change carriers while letting them keep pretty much the same stats on avarage (USN CVs) and nerf the IJNs (5-8 tier) by ~30% (was done in 0.4.1 btw)?

Also how much do you want to change them based on random battles keeping in mind that there is also ranked battles, team battles later (clans will come Soon™) and Clan Wars or e-sport in the future and they have to play there too and be competitive.

 

Sorry Sharana, but specialkha has decided to change the format of his question yet again as he cannot remember what his original question was.

 

Therefor you're answear is invalid and needs to be ignored.

[Hannibalurg]

 

Sorry Sharana, but specialkha has decided to change the format of his question yet again as he cannot remember what his original question was.

 

Therefor you're answear is invalid and needs to be ignored.

 

Each time you shot down Specialkha's argument i he repeats himself as if he doesn't really read what you write. Every singel arguement he has brought to the table has been shot down, yet he persists. Kruger Dunning Effect in it's cleanest form.

 

[specialkha]

 

Congrats on achieving T8 glad you finally got out of the strike farming which is going to be nerfed, which was the main point we all agreed on.

 

Please address my questions as I have already addressed yours, you pointless troll.

 

Also you have changed you're question what, 3 times now? Is the one you present now the correct format or are you going to change it again if I answer it?

 

I did not change my question. I reformulate it several times for you to understand it as you seem to lack quite a bit up there in your head.

[Hannibalurg]

 

I did not change my question. I reformulate it several times for you to understand it as you seem to lack quite a bit up there in your head.

 

Or you reformulate it because you are not able to grasp the answer? So fixed on your misconseption that you are blind to the cold hard facts.

[Ishiro32]

The tier 4-6 CVs are extremely boring, for me even sub tier 8. I don't know any CV captain who is enjoying them, they are seen as painful grind. Do you think Kawachi represents the Yamato gameplay? I was watching youtube videos and editing my guides for OBT while I was grinding the CVs till tier 6 or 7. Yet on tier X I rarely have time to type in the chat. The real challenge and enjoyment comes on tier 9-10.

 

I love my destroyer CV Ryuujou. Give me high tier carrier with similar concealment and maneuverability (even weaker planes compared to other carriers of that tier) and I would be all over that ship. Dancing between torpedo waves is not something that Haku or Midway can do and is very fun. So there is at least one person who likes one tier VI carrier. 

High tier CVL, I need this in my life!!

[Iron_Gekko]

 

I did not change my question. I reformulate it several times for you to understand it as you seem to lack quite a bit up there in your head.

 

Thanks for that specialkha, lucky all the evidence is plastered on the board under you're name (or are there more people posting on you're account?)

 

Now instead of going all the way back I'll make it simple for you by putting up the two latest formats of you're question just to make sure you don't change it again (please do check yourself if you cannot remember.)

 

Do you want me to address format:

 

A: Why should the longest range/safest/easiest/no lowest RNG class be the top damage dealer?

or you're most recent formated version:

 

B: Do you think, gamewisen balancewise, that this is a good idea to give everything to a signle unit, which means that force a team to behave like a team to counter 1 player?

 

Just want to be sure this time in the event you decide to change it since you don't like my answer.

[Exozen]

Remove the tier 9 and 10 , move all Cw's up 2 tiers. There now its balanced. 

[specialkha]

 

Because that's the only way to represent CVs in the game and it's consciousness decision, one that was questioned (by some) since day 1, yet the majority feels otherwise. It fits the WG's fleet gameplay as a naval game (not tanks on water), so it's here. If they didn't want to represent CVs they wouldn't make a game about WWII or wouldn't at least spend entire year of the alpha bringing the CVs to WoWs. 

 

Now a question to you if I may ask. How do you want to change the CVs? Not some abstarct theory, but real talk. CVs and BBs are capital ships, they have more weight in the MM, they live longer and deal more damage on avarage because of that. Those 2 classes will have close stats to each other. So how do you want to change carriers while letting them keep pretty much the same stats on avarage (USN CVs) and nerf the IJNs (5-8 tier) by ~30% (was done in 0.4.1 btw)?

Also how much do you want to change them based on random battles keeping in mind that there is also ranked battles, team battles later (clans will come Soon™) and Clan Wars or e-sport in the future and they have to play there too and be competitive.

 

The tier 4-6 CVs are extremely boring, for me even sub tier 8. I don't know any CV captain who is enjoying them, they are seen as painful grind. Do you think Kawachi represents the Yamato gameplay? I was watching youtube videos and editing my guides for OBT while I was grinding the CVs till tier 6 or 7. Yet on tier X I rarely have time to type in the chat. The real challenge and enjoyment comes on tier 9-10.

 

As for balancing CVs, If they keep everything they have currently, their damage should be tone down OR their utility should be reduced (less scouting) or they should be made for fragile but with more AA, so only CA/BB/DD could kill them, etc... You know balance.

 

Since 4.1 is coming, let's see, but I do not think it will change something in openess of CVs. They are still limited to 2, therefore they are not considered as balanced by devs.

[mtm78]

 They are still limited to 2, therefore they are not considered as balanced by devs.

 

Stop hoping this will change, it will save you disappointments down the line. Fleet aspect is key. teamplay is key, lone wolf vs CV will lose always and that's how it should stay.

[Iron_Gekko]

Remove the tier 9 and 10 , move all Cw's up 2 tiers. There now its balanced. 

 

Actually a good point, the IJN tier 8 CV is the most awesome looking in the game.

 

Would you still remove the strike package then?

[Hannibalurg]

Remove the tier 9 and 10 , move all Cw's up 2 tiers. There now its balanced. 

 

Then we would have to remove all AA fom T8 and above. As T8 AA pretty much rapes Tier 8 aircrafts. And this only escalates the higher tier you go.

In your Amagi you have max 38 plane kills, that is almost 60% of the amount of planes to a IJN CV tier 8.And the Amagi is not suppose to have that great AA.

Imagine how useless CV's would become.

[Sharana]

I love my destroyer CV Ryuujou. Give me high tier carrier with similar concealment and maneuverability (even weaker planes compared to other carriers of that tier) and I would be all over that ship. Dancing between torpedo waves is not something that Haku or Midway can do and is very fun. So there is at least one person who likes one tier VI carrier. 

High tier CVL, I need this in my life!!

Well OK tier 6 is on the border as it can still sealclub . But tell me you enjoy tier 4-5 (the ones many try and stop right there) and you might be the only one who played tier X, but enjoys tier 4-5 

 

 

As for balancing CVs, If they keep everything they have currently, their damage should be tone down OR their utility should be reduced (less scouting) or they should be made for fragile but with more AA, so only CA/BB/DD could kill them, etc... You know balance.

 

Since 4.1 is coming, let's see, but I do not think it will change something in openess of CVs. They are still limited to 2, therefore they are not considered as balanced by devs.

 

- possibly, but still if the 0.4.1 changes (MM mainly) makes their avg stats like BBs (+/- 5% let's say) then what would you do? You clearly have problem with their design and meta, not with their avg stats WG is trying to fix. 0.4.1 won't solve your problems so what do you propose to keep their avg stats, but "fix" them, so they are not "broken class" according to you?

- take a look at the visibility from air and from surface. It's arcade sure, but no place to be lowered anymore (unless you suggest all pilots will be totally blind).

- USN CVs have very good AA and hit points in WoWs are based on displacement (more then logical). I don't see how can you make them more "fragile" as they either don't have armor (HE citadels) or they have enough armor (top tiers) so BBs don't overpenetrate and land nice AP salvos. The hit points are staying for many reasons, mainly so they don't die to 2-3 aerial trops or few bombs. Not to mention that other ships won't reach them fast enough, so it will actually be huge boost to their survivability if you give them better AA then Montana, but hp between DD and cruiser.

[OVanBruce]

The panic button that puts out disruptive AA is unlimited...

 

It can be easily baited though and with the low level of coordination in pubs in a group with 2 CAs both of then will activate then at the same which would leave the whole group vulnerable to attack for 3 minutes. Even if the AA barrage was used effectively to stop one of the CVs attack in a match with 2 CVs in one team the other one can follow suit and make a devastanting strike without the group being able to stop it.

 

As for the you're valid point that some torps will hit regardless, these few torps are not that game changing as a BB can easily repair it, also pointing out that a few torps get through is the same as saying that some shots still hit when a BB fires a salvo.

 

But you don't go after BBs in that situation, you go after the CAs which won't be able to recover from the few torps that will hit then. Even from a 3 squad stacked attack if only 3 or 4 torps  hit they will seriously cripple any CA except the tier X Zao and Des Moines.