Any news on when the skillships will be nerfed? (CVs)

[Ishiro32]

Low compared to other games or low compared to other classes? Because we speak about WoWs and compared to BBs, CAs and DDs it's higher because of the tactical options it presents you. The difference is seen only when you have one of the top players in the enemy team, because it's not really hard to manually drop torps on bad players (you usually target them to farm damage/exp/credits), but that's pretty insignificant compared to target picking, multitasking, spotting, situational awareness (where are your bombers actually needed to make the difference) and tactical thinking to outplay the enemy CV. The skill floor is rather low till tier 8 (significantly lowered since alpha deliberately by WG), but not the skill celling.

 

Maybe I just feel like this because if there is no opposition, carriers do feel kinda meh. 

When you are playing other classes you can always practice and perfect aiming. When playing LoL or Dota, even when playing against worse players you can practice and improve yourself.

Manual aiming for carriers is a skill that right now is... well... easy, especially at high tiers there is almost no aiming.

 

While I agree that at high tier requirments for tactical thinking, prediction and overall battle strategy requirments are high. For it to show up you need to be challanged. Without it, it is just.. farming. I do have high hopes for the fighters and MM changes to solve this. 

[specialkha]

 

oh really? should I remind you these tables from SEA server that show dmg done by each class as percentage from team total?

 

 

 

everyone

top 10%

 

 

 

Yeah, BB are starting to doing "fine" if we can that fine, at t8+, while CVs just dominate from t4.

[Sharana]

I love how everyone that defends the CVs simply ignores the SEA server stats, but accuses everyone else for making facts up.

Even worse, some of them are super testers.

What are the SEA stats tier 1-8 telling you? That IJN CVs that never should have entered OBT with 3 TBs and should have been nerfed down to 2 (like tier 9-10 CVs rebalance for OBT) overperform? Well that's fixed in 0.4.1, the USN CVs are pretty close to BBs and thanks to the mirror CV balance and better fighters they will drop. They are expected to be ~ like the BBs as both are capital ships, they have higher value in the MM and they both live longer.

 

Oh yeah, taking winrates into account at those small samples, but ignoring the horrific dmg per match. Congrats, just ignore everything that doesn fit your opinion.

The damage itself is completely here, it's not WoT! The tier X ships have between 17 900 (Shimakaze) and 97 200 (Yamato) hitpoints. Unlike WoT where MTs, HTs and TDs have ~2000 and you can actually compare the damage.

[avenger121]

 

We allready discusses why CV's have higher substats as damage, etc etc

 

Because they live longer pr match, then any other ship, hence giving them better damage etc pr game, but spend alot more time pr game, then any other class.

 

  ............. and living longer, while making more dmg, makes CVs not OP?!

[Iron_Gekko]

On the same chart, the yamato have 40% win rate, Zao 41%, but ok...

 

And if you scroll down, you will find the Top 10% players.

 

[Hannibalurg]

On the same chart, the yamato have 40% win rate, Zao 41%, but ok...

 

And if you scroll down, you will find the Top 10% players.

 

Running out of arguements, understandable. Keep digging your own grave, you lost this arguement 450 posts ago.

[Hannibalurg]

 

  ............. and living longer, while making more dmg, makes CVs not OP?!

 

Making more damage, because they live longer.

 

No that doesn't automaticly make them OP in any aspect no.

[avenger121]

What are the SEA stats tier 1-8 telling you? That IJN CVs that never should have entered OBT with 3 TBs and should have been nerfed down to 2 (like tier 9-10 CVs rebalance for OBT) overperform? Well that's fixed in 0.4.1, the USN CVs are pretty close to BBs and thanks to the mirror CV balance and better fighters they will drop. They are expected to be ~ like the BBs as both are capital ships, they have higher value in the MM and they both live longer.

 

The damage itself is completely here, it's not WoT! The tier X ships have between 17 900 (Shimakaze) and 97 200 (Yamato) hitpoints. Unlike WoT where MTs, HTs and TDs have ~2000 and you can actually compare the damage.

 

You know, the enemy team as a whole has a HP pool, but sitting in a DD you decide only to attack other DDs with their small HP pools, hence the low avg dmg of DDs.

 

How could I forget that.

[avenger121]

 

Making more damage, because they live longer.

 

No that doesn't automaticly make them OP in any aspect no.

 

CVs have more dmg at the end of the match, way more than any other class. This makes them OP. It doesnt matter how long they live and how much time they had to deal this dmg, the have far better results in the end.

[DtXpwnz]

 

Yeah, BB are starting to doing "fine" if we can that fine, at t8+, while CVs just dominate from t4.

 

Look at T5 and T6... And values from SEA server clearly showed that T7 BBs are underperforming, but for some reason that wasn't addressed in 4.1...

[Hannibalurg]

 

CVs have more dmg at the end of the match, way more than any other class. This makes them OP. It doesnt matter how long they live and how much time they had to deal this dmg, the have far better results in the end.

 

You obviously does not graps what overpowered even means. Saying it don't matter how long they live only shows your lack of thinking further then your nose.

I can agree that it is abit unfair that you can't que with your ship until the battle is done, yes i can agree that is unfair. But that does NOT make CV overpowered.

[Sharana]

You know, the enemy team as a whole has a HP pool, but sitting in a DD you decide only to attack other DDs with their small HP pools, hence the low avg dmg of DDs.

Then what about BBs. Are they OP when they have more damage/exp per battle? Team pool is team pool, but you pick your targets. BBs shoot other BBs and citadel them or at least don't overpen in many cases having high damage + they live longer compared to CAs and DDs. 

[Woel]

 

CVs have more dmg at the end of the match, way more than any other class. This makes them OP. It doesnt matter how long they live and how much time they had to deal this dmg, the have far better results in the end.

 

Simply doing higher damage does not make a ship class OP by definition. What makes them "OP" is that they can do that without the team's help, spot on their own, fly over mountains at quite high speeds, they're not really slaves to RNG, have infinite reach without being exposed and at the same time even getting rewarded quite handsomely for all that (without having any drawbacks that's worth to mention).

None of which you can really measure in terms of stats really, especially not at looking player pages. 

[avenger121]

Good players, nothing more to say, your arguement on the ship itself beeing OP just invalidated it's self we must look towards the majority.

 

Overall stats speaks for themselvs. Several ships have higher avrage winrate then Carriers.

 

I rest my case, i sunk all your arguements with your own numbers.

 

Small sample size, you know, I already told you. But yeah, keep ignoring evidence contrary to your opinion.

 

 

You obviously does not graps what overpowered even means. Saying it don't matter how long they live only shows your lack of thinking further then your nose.

I can agree that it is abit unfair that you can't queue* with your ship until the battle is done, yes i can agree that is unfair. But that does NOT make CV overpowered.

So, the game balance lies not in the match performance, but in the dmg you can make while playing 1 hour.

 

 

WTF, I give up on you. Some people just dont want to understand.

 

 

Then what about BBs. Are they OP when they have more damage/exp per battle? Team pool is team pool, but you pick your targets. BBs shoot other BBs and citadel them or at least don't overpen in many cases having high damage + they live longer compared to CAs and DDs. 

Yep, they are OP when they have more dmg/exp per match than any other class. But I would be careful with XP, we dont know WGs multipliers. When the survivability of CAs is so low, that they make only half the avg dmg of battleships, then they need to be buffed either in survivability or DPM.

[Krogort]

Nice charts, however completely irrelevant since everyone knows that CVs are outperforming in terms of EXP-income due to how the exp-reward system works and favors burst damage classes.

 

It is in fact the best metric for two reasons:

-Different ship class have different HP pool, sinking a battleship or a destroyer from full life reward the same amount of XP for very different amount of damage inflicted. And supposedly hurt the opposing team the same way.

-It's the most valuable currency and internet points brag-meter.

 

[avenger121]

 

Simply doing higher damage does not make a ship class OP by definition. What makes them "OP" is that they can do that without the team's help, spot on their own, fly over mountains at quite high speeds, they're not really slaves to RNG, have infinite reach without being exposed and at the same time even getting rewarded quite handsomely for all that (without having any drawbacks that's worth to mention).

None of which you can really measure in terms of stats really, especially not at looking player pages. 

 

Ofc dmg is no the only parameter for OPness, but this game is based mainly on the random match mode, so yeah, damage and winrate are by far the most important factors.

[DtXpwnz]

 

It is in fact the best metric for two reasons:

-Different ship class have different HP pool, sinking a battleship or a destroyer from full life reward the same amount of XP for very different amount of damage inflicted. And supposedly hurt the opposing team the same way.

-It's the most valuable currency and internet points brag-meter.

 

 

average exp includes premium account bonus - which already makes this metric irrelevant. Also every good IJN CV player "abuses" the exp-reward system and focuses DDs and CAs first, because he will get ton of exp for that.

 

edit: I would agree that generally average exp would be nice way to compare classes. However the fact that someone is using prem. account and therefore gets much higher avg.exp - and it is recorded in these staistics is rubbish and fail on WG's side. It should be base-exp only. Also keep in mind that current exp-reward system also favours DDs, this is a reason why they can be competitive exp-wise with other classes, because they can easily remove 100%-0% hp quickly, they are burst damage class like CVs.

[Iron_Gekko]

 

average exp includes premium account bonus - which already makes this metric irrelevant. Also every good IJN CV player "abuses" the exp-reward system and focuses DDs and CAs first, because he will get ton of exp for that.

 

Shhhhh! don't tell them about the part where highlevel CV's actually ignore each other to hamster low level ships, of course CV's get lots of over the top damage from hitting all those "below" average players who go lone wolf. That's what you need to take into account when looking at this graph.

[Hannibalurg]

 

Shhhhh! don't tell them about the part where highlevel CV's actually ignore each other to hamster low level ships, of course CV's get lots of over the top damage from hitting all those "below" average players who go lone wolf. That's what you need to take into account when looking at this graph.

 

We have proven them wrong this entire day, and still they don't give up. Imagine my surprise when the avrg. winrate in Asian servers was only 46% in the Hakuryu, i guess we are pretty Elite compared to them Asians, i got 62% so atleast im better than the avrage

[DtXpwnz]

And don't forget that CVs will get even more deadly in 4.1 since someone thought it is a good idea to display where exactly will torpedoes get activated - therefore removing significant portion of required skill from manual drops.

[Sharana]

Yep, they are OP when they have more dmg/exp per match than any other class. But I would be careful with XP, we dont know WGs multipliers. When the survivability of CAs is so low, that they make only half the avg dmg of battleships, then they need to be buffed either in survivability or DPM.

 

That's the entire point - there are no multipliers in WoWs. You hit Shimakaze for 1790 damage (10% of it's hp) and you get X amount of exp for that. You hit Yamato for 9720 damage (10% of it's hp) and you get the same X amount of exp, it's not Y or Z and the class doesn't matter at all. It's all simply percent of the ship's max hp = fixed amount of exp for everyone.

The damage is not supposed to be the same, they are not making WoT on water and it's about fleet formations and roles, not about damage. If they go YOLO and die in the first 7 minutes it's pretty much their fault, they don't need dpm or survivability buff. Cruisers have pretty high dpm, but they can only realise it as fire support while someone is taking the damage, they can't tank. 

Big part of the DDs suicide and are the first to die, yet there are DDs that spam torps till the end. You want balance around the mindless mass that will die during the first 5 min because they are fast and can suicide faster then the rest, but they should deal the same amount of damage as the friendly BB that kept himself alive for 15 min doing damage during 10 of those minutes while the dead DD is already in another battle or watching random YT video?

[Krogort]

 

average exp includes premium account bonus - which already makes this metric irrelevant. Also every good IJN CV player "abuses" the exp-reward system and focuses DDs and CAs first, because he will get ton of exp for that.

 

edit: I would agree that generally average exp would be nice way to compare classes. However the fact that someone is using prem. account and therefore gets much higher avg.exp - and it is recorded in these staistics is rubbish and fail on WG's side. It should be base-exp only. Also keep in mind that current exp-reward system also favours DDs, this is a reason why they can be competitive exp-wise with other classes, because they can easily remove 100%-0% hp quickly, they are burst damage class like CVs.

 

Would people paying premium favor any ship class/country in particular ?

I'd think they would play everything the same way non premium players would but it's pretty hard to know.

 

Why do burst damage ships get more xp than the other ? garanteed killshot xp bonus ?

 

 

Also Graphs for damage and XP sorta looks the same.

 

 

[Spellfire40]

Didnt causing damage to lower tir targets give you less exp? Also farming damage agist nibble CA and DD cause less damage and so exp than scoring Multi hits agist BBs? 

 

Cya

 

Spellfire40 

[Vulgarny]

Im not english speaker but even with my vulgarish I understood what Sharana wrote.

[avenger121]

 

That's the entire point - there are no multipliers in WoWs. You hit Shimakaze for 1790 damage (10% of it's hp) and you get X amount of exp for that. You hit Yamato for 9720 damage (10% of it's hp) and you get the same X amount of exp, it's not Y or Z and the class doesn't matter at all. It's all simply percent of the ship's max hp = fixed amount of exp for everyone.

So, we have not only the avg dmg as evidence that CVs are OP as [edited], but also XP. Nice to know.

 

 

The damage is not supposed to be the same, they are not making WoT on water and it's about fleet formations and roles, not about damage. If they go YOLO and die in the first 7 minutes it's pretty much their fault, they don't need dpm or survivability buff. Cruisers have pretty high dpm, but they can only realise it as fire support while someone is taking the damage, they can't tank. 

Big part of the DDs suicide and are the first to die, yet there are DDs that spam torps till the end. You want balance around the mindless mass that will die during the first 5 min because they are fast and can suicide faster then the rest, but they should deal the same amount of damage as the friendly BB that kept himself alive for 15 min doing damage during 10 of those minutes while the dead DD is already in another battle or watching random YT video?

Yeah, like it is only about the avg dmg of DDs, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I have to repeat me again:

 

The very best DD players dont reach more than 70k avg dmg per battle, while every half decent CV player laughs at those numbers. So, I ask again, where is the balance.

 

The same is more or less true for BBs and CAs of course.