Better logic and balance with torpedoes and more

[funnylumpy]

First of I would like to say thank you for the effort of making a warship game and the details on the ships are awesome and nice.

 

After playing it for a week there is something that strikes me instantly as annoying and ilogical.

 

Torpedoes, they are OP deluxe, When you turn and head against them they detonate as they hit you direct on the side which was the most

effefective and damaging for any vessels. The torpedoes that comes on angel on 30 degrees or lower should have a chance to not detonate at all.

Optionally is to make the torpedos to do less damage on hit infront. As it is now it is not fun as torpedoes are flying everywhere.

Other things I would like that is when crashing into team mates deals more damage than know as well as crashing into land.
Too bump car feel to it now, people should learn to be aware where they go and if we make mistake then we should suffer. ^^

thanks

[Admiral_noodle]

after 600+ games in CBT and OBT I wouldn't consider Torps OP. It was hard at first but after a while you develop a sixth sense of predicting where Torps will be before they are even launched. You will get that sense... As you will learn to notice torpedo bombers long before that become a problem...

 

They can certainly feel OP when Torps seem to be coming from everywhere, but as a BB and cruiser player I've learned to deal with them.

 

Your point about "glancing Torps" I'm not sure is valid as Torps detonate either by magnetism or on contact. Any contact. I think Torps already do less damage if they hit the bow a glancing blow, but I could be wrong.

 

More damage for collisions... Hmmm that could end with much rage! At higher tiers on bigger maps it happens somewhat less, but you may have a point about beaching. Too much tactical beaching going on now?

[Dominico]

Op is correct torps Would Have a high failure rate to detonate front on. This should be in game I'm.  Side on yes but angled torps would often bounce. Also there was a random fail rate in all torps which in my opinion should be in there, either 5 % or so.

 

They are very powerful in game and with the salvo size a low fail rate would negate some power while keeping them dangerous. Also head on hits could become a stronger tactic to near dodges. I tried this when I first started playing and was also surprised to see front on hits detonating all the time.

[Admiral_noodle]

Torpedoes will detonate front in as they are detonated by shock. However they might not do as much damage. So I don't agree that torpedoes can glance off except at very oblique angles.

 

Good point about random failure rate, that could be a thing. I've never seen a torpedo fail to explode and it shouldn't be too hard to model. I like it.

[Sub_Eleven]

You call torpedoes OP, yet you have a 3% hit ratio with em?

 

[Mehmeds]

I find it funny, how everyone calling torps OP have close to no experience, nor accuracy with them... I guess this days its easier to come, and cry and whine on forums, than actually learn to play.

[Kruzenstern]

Torps are only OP against people whose cognitive abilities are UP.

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

@OP:

You may think torpedoes are OP, but they aren´t.

Sure, I have those games too where I sink 2, 3 or maybe even 4 ships in a single game in my Minekaze, but this is only due to enemy´s mistakes.

Let me give you an example.

I am driving in my Minekaze, closing in on an enemy BB while staying out of visual range. Suddenly, a cruiser pops up from behind an island I was using to shield me from being spotted and of course, he sees me and opens fire.

I turn away frantically, but I am on my last leg HP wise already, so I launch my torps at him (about 4km range), more to boost my own morale than expecting to hit him, and right after that he sinks me.

Now, he is 4km away, he has not only seen, but fired at me and _sunk_ me. Yet he keeps going in a straight line and, of course, two of my torps hit and sink him (and one other hits a BB sailing 1km behind him _also_ not doing any evasive action, lol)

 

Once on the Ocean map, I took out 1 CA and 2 BBs sailing behind each other along the map edge. You should think at least after I popped the first one (and turned away a bit too late, so I was spotted), the others would start to take evasive action, but noooooo.

 

Those are most of the situations, where torpedoes feel overpowered.

Sometimes I am --><-- _that_ close to calling the other team on chat, asking them to please, _please_ take some evasive action 

 

Edit:

I thought torps hitting the bow already deal less damage?

 

More damage for ramming friendlies, well, that could turn real ugly, real fast

 

[Gl0cK_17]

maybe read atleast the pinned threads before posting?

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18204-carriers-are-op-battleships-are-op-cruisers-are-op-destroyers-are-op/

 

 

• Torpedoes are dangerous. Try to avoid firing torpedoes when you have friendly ships between you and the enemy. At some point your friendly ships are going to have to take evasive manoeuvres to avoid being shot and it's very possible they'll need to turn right into where you've fired off your torpedoes.
• WATCH YOUR MINI MAP - I've put this on caps as it's super important. If you're a Battleship then you must understand that Carrier players are likely to focus you. Because of this you need to be watching for torpedo plane squadrons coming your way.  Turning towards them is usually the best tactic, Zig-zagging doesn't work as well due to the slow rudder traverse of Battleships (you take a long time to switch directions). - Most Battleships are fairly good at turning one way quickly so use that to your advantage. - I know many people may feel it's impossible to dodge all the torpedoes. I'm not saying you will. With preperation and practise however you will dodge most of them. It's all about knowing what's coming and reacting to it before it happens.

 

In short, learn to anticipate or sink

[Soulblight]

Op is correct torps Would Have a high failure rate to detonate front on. This should be in game I'm.  Side on yes but angled torps would often bounce. Also there was a random fail rate in all torps which in my opinion should be in there, either 5 % or so.

 

They are very powerful in game and with the salvo size a low fail rate would negate some power while keeping them dangerous. Also head on hits could become a stronger tactic to near dodges. I tried this when I first started playing and was also surprised to see front on hits detonating all the time.

 

Some great ideas here.

[canuckster]

 

Some great ideas here.

 

Front on hits happen because as mentioned, magnetic triggers. The torpedoes were set to run under the ship and explode under them, not on contact, but yes the same torpedo can be set to hit on contact as well. Contact hits definitely had a greater chance of detonation as long as the angle of the torpedo hit no less than 45 degrees. Magnetic charges however would do significantly more damage as they were supposed to detonate under the center of the ship, the only problem was setting the torpedoes to the correct depth as too deep would mean no detonation but too shallow and it would make contact but not explode because of no contact trigger.

 

I think it's a mechanic that's far too complicated for the game, for example, why not be able to control the spread of my gun fire.

 

Torpedoes are fine as they are, but I would agree that maybe bow shots shouldn't be doing as much damage as they do.

[Moppedhupe]

so give torps their random fail rate while give BBs and CAs their correct inaccuracy.

 

and torps arent op. just evade. learn to handle them. learn some map awarness. learn the game. torps arent a prob.

[St4n]

You call torpedoes OP, yet you have a 3% hit ratio with em?

 

 

I find it funny, how everyone calling torps OP have close to no experience, nor accuracy with them... I guess this days its easier to come, and cry and whine on forums, than actually learn to play.

 

Lol, and me having a bad hitrate with a pistol proves that another one bringing a pistol to a streetfight isn't op.

Yeah, what a logic. There are never trainers that are worse than their students in sports, since better performance proves that you are knowing more, thus making the trainer obselet.

And how does it come that generals in armies are not the best snipers, tank drivers, whatever? Since beeing the best in using equipment would determine the person who has the most knowledge.

 

And for those who can't understand sarcasm: You don't need to be good at something to judge it properly.

 

[canuckster]

so give torps their random fail rate while give BBs and CAs their correct inaccuracy.

 

and torps arent op. just evade. learn to handle them. learn some map awarness. learn the game. torps arent a prob.

 

Torpedoes do have "random fail rates" it's in the spread, I've seen many of my torpedoes miss because my center torpedo decided to follow the left or right one instead of staying dead center in my fire line.

 

Why not have fail rates for AP shells then? I can tell you many a crew found lots of un-detonated AP shells in their hulls after a fire fight.

[tfioi]

 

 

Lol, and me having a bad hitrate with a pistol proves that another one bringing a pistol to a streetfight isn't op.

Yeah, what a logic. There are never trainers that are worse than their students in sports, since better performance proves that you are knowing more, thus making the trainer obselet.

And how does it come that generals in armies are not the best snipers, tank drivers, whatever? Since beeing the best in using equipment would determine the person who has the most knowledge.

 

And for those who can't understand sarcasm: You don't need to be good at something to judge it properly.

 

 

And for those who lack common sense and use bad analogies.

You need understanding of how something effects game play and being bad at a game does not qualify you to judge it.

The amazing general ~10% hit rate of torps says that they hit either when someone suicide rushes you, seriously out plays you, or when you SAIL IN A STRAIGHT LINE WITH CONSTANT SPEED

 

Now OP, with more games behind you. You'll notice that torpedo's from DD's are used more as area denial tools on some maps cause pretty much that's all you can do (to a player who pays any kind of attention).

And eating torps from CV on lower tiers. Well I feel your pain since they need to be balanced (no counter play what so ever specially if your team has no CV of their own).

 

[St4n]

 

And for those who lack common sense and use bad analogies.

You need understanding of how something effects game play and being bad at a game does not qualify you to judge it.

The amazing general ~10% hit rate of torps says that they hit either when someone suicide rushes you, seriously out plays you, or when you SAIL IN A STRAIGHT LINE WITH CONSTANT SPEED

 

Now OP, with more games behind you. You'll notice that torpedo's from DD's are used more as area denial tools on some maps cause pretty much that's all you can do (to a player who pays any kind of attention).

And eating torps from CV on lower tiers. Well I feel your pain since they need to be balanced (no counter play what so ever specially if your team has no CV of their own).

 

that they are spammed a lot.

[tfioi]

 

you are still fresh, you'll learn

[St4n]

you are still fresh, you'll learn

 

[AgarwaenME]

that they are spammed a lot.

 

Beyond some low tier DDs, they have reloads from 1min and up. You don't "spam" torpedoes beyond t5, however people stop being quite as bad as they are insofar as avoiding them. However I bet your experience with DDs are limited to such tactics.

[Nethraniel]

that they are spammed a lot.

 

Not really... my absolute best game in Fubuki was 36 torps fired (= 4 spreads) and 22% hit rate = 8 hits.

And this was only due, because I could sink two BBs in an enclosed area.

My overall hit rate in Fubuki is 8-9%

[tfioi]

Nope, not getting defensive, actually just bored of folks who have limited experience yet they feel the need to share their wisdom 

No you are not right, actually I would call you pretty ignorant of this game.
I am amazed that someone gets hit by full torp spread now days unless a DD did not ambush someone from less than 3-4km range.

If you do get hit, your own fault. Not paying attention to the map is one of the biggest enemies. As it is on WoT them same it is for WoWS.
Also as new fresh CA player get better, they know where to and how to hunt DD's. Yesterday in a tier VI match I've sunk every enemy DD (4) in 3-4min. Not a single torp hit in a fight around 4-5km, go figure eh.

 

So maybe you'll get the picture that later torps are fired as denial tool. If you get hit, well buhuu....

[HidesHisFace]

I'm pretty sure that the damage torps do depends on ship's armour, area that is hit and presence of anti-torpedo bulge (if it gets hit).

Now, I'm not sure how well it works at the moment, but I remember a game in Omaha - the ship usually survives 2 torpedo hits from destroyers (third being a fatal blow) of equal tier but I remember getting hit from the stern by enemy Minekaze - the damage was quite low, around 1/8 of my health.

 

Now, I'm not sure how big the protected/resistant areas are on each ships but they are clearly already there.

[BDubzZz86]

Torpedo's are nowhere near OP...where to start?!

 

1) As long as you get the 3rd level of Sixth Sense you receive a 20% increase in torpedo detection. If you put this skill on a cruiser/destroyer commander and you still get hit by torpedo's then I would strongly suggest to go back and learn to "observe your surroundings" (aka less tunnel vision).

 

2) Even without this 3rd level Sixth sense torpedo's are still extremely easy to dodge as long as you pay attention. If, for example, you see a smoke being deployed 10-15km in front of you and you see the enemy team has DDs that have decent torp range then I'd strongly recommend already changing course. 

 

3) One last "pro" tip: Always turn away from torpedo's as opposed to into them (unless you're a DD yourself maybe and you're going for the kill).

 

==

 

The only time you might have a hard time against torpedo's is if you're in a BB and you are one of the only members of your team left. You may find yourself quickly surrounded by enemy DDs / TBs and it would be quite a challenge to dodge them but, even then, they are by no means OP. 

 

[Hauptbahnhof]

Op is correct torps Would Have a high failure rate to detonate front on. This should be in game I'm.  Side on yes but angled torps would often bounce. Also there was a random fail rate in all torps which in my opinion should be in there, either 5 % or so.

 

 

 

As funny as it may seem the actual torpedoes used by the USN early war were so unreliable and faulty that in practice it was the other way around:

 

http://www.historynet.com/us-torpedo-troubles-during-world-war-ii.htm

 

"A direct, 90-degree hit produced a dud seven out of 10 times–a 70 percent failure rate almost two years into the war. By adjusting the target plates to a 45-degree angle, the failure rate was cut in half. At a still greater angle, the exploders worked without fail. Lockwood immediately directed his boats at sea to launch their torpedoes from large, obtuse angles. They were ordered to improvise, to use anything but the textbook 90-degree track."

 

 

For normal working contact detonators though it's true that high obtuse angles had a larger failure rate.

[Hannibalurg]

Not even 50 games, yet start complaining about torpedoes allready.

 

This thread among many other show that Game devolopers have held hands with the players for far to long. People don't learn how to play games anymore, they QQ and expect things to change.

 

Players have become a spoiled breed, and i hope WG doesn't dumb down things anymore then they have allready done.