Ryujo V Independence - No competition

[Leonadios]

Ryujo AA Loadout - 1 fighter, 2 TBs, 2 DBs

Independence Strike Loadout - 2 fighters, 0 TBs, 1 DB

 

So, let me summarise my experience so far with the Ryujo when i'm up against an Independence. I send all of my planes around the map edge in an attempt to blow him out of the water. I come across 1 of his fighter squads. Fearing for the safety of my planes, I counter them with my fighter squad. All of my fighters die and none of his fighters are lost. I am left with 2 TBs and 2 DBs. I make my way toward the Independence and proceed to get shredded by the SINGLE fighter squadron.

 

...?

 

How is this balanced in any way what so ever? Don't tell me to use friendly AA, anything under tier 6 doesn't have any, and why should I have to use skill to counter something that takes no skill to pull off? US CVs are easy mode and ridiculous to fight against. Nothing I can do can prevent my entire strike force being shredded by OP US fighters.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

But on the other hand Independence with fighter setup can only make a difference when there are enemy carrier to fight with. Other than that he can only use those fighters as scouts and pray that his team will win for him because one DB squad can't really do much dmg and they are -1 ship in team for that cv with no bombers.

[Leonadios]

But on the other hand Independence with fighter setup can only make a difference when there are enemy carrier to fight with. Other than that he can only use those fighters as scouts and pray that his team will win for him because one DB squad can't really do much dmg and they are -1 ship in team for that cv with no bombers.

 

That is true, but how do I make the game bearable to play for myself?

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

Keep his fighters spotted and attack ships on the other side of the map or get them distracted by getting them to chase a DB squad then attack and retreat back while they are occupied. There are plenty of tactics that work

[Leonadios]

Keep his fighters spotted and attack ships on the other side of the map or get them distracted by getting them to chase a DB squad then attack and retreat back while they are occupied. There are plenty of tactics that work

 

So I have to use DB (with limited supply) to bait his fighters so I can play cat and mouse the entire game? Doesn't sound balanced to me.

[Maskinsjefen]

Don't forget, you got 48 planes in stock while the Indepence got 37.

 

I can tell you a tactic a friend of mine uses when he is playing the Ryujo in our Division.

If he use the torp deck where he got no fighter, he ask us both to cruise with Clevelands which got pretty awesome AA support. So once the other carrier fighters get close to his planes he retreat them over us, yes you're gonna lose a couple of planes if they engage. But most of the time they retreat. With this deck tho you can crush the enemies carriers pretty fast as 3 torp squads 4 real 

 

And if your friends doesn't always want to use cruiser go with the other deck you'll have to use the fighter squad as bait and then the dive bombers.

Or if you want them alive, keep your planes on the other side and get some BB's rekt'd as already mentioned :-D

[ShockPirat]

A single good torpedo run you do will do more damage than his dive bombers the whole game. How's that for balanced?

I keep saying this. Air superiority American CVs are useless in random battles. Only thing he can do is try to supress you, and he can't catch all your squadrons. It doesn't make that single match very enjoyable for you, but as far as damage goes you've won the moment he selected fighter loadout back in his port.

[Takeda92]

Carrier balance atm:

 

IJN: great game if no enemy carrier, terrible game against USN carrier

USN: great game against IJN carrier, terrible game against no carrier

 

and thus, since MM will give you both, balance will be achieved. 

This is why black and white balancing is a terrible idea imo!

[Leonadios]

A single good torpedo run you do will do more damage than his dive bombers the whole game. How's that for balanced?

I keep saying this. Air superiority American CVs are useless in random battles. Only thing he can do is try to supress you, and he can't catch all your squadrons. It doesn't make that single match very enjoyable for you, but as far as damage goes you've won the moment he selected fighter loadout back in his port.

 

Obviously, as dive bombers are pretty terrible for damage compared to torpedo bombers. I've had many instances where a single fighter squadron has caught all of my planes, however I will try NorTyto's advice.

[ShockPirat]

Try sending your planes in different directions... Gawd, is that so hard to think of? You can even keep them together until they get attacked and then seperate the attacked squad and have it go in opposite direction. When fighters are done with that squad they won't catch the rest in time. There is a reason why IJN CVs have considerably higher win rates than US.

[ShockPirat]

Takeda, its actually like this:

 

IJN: massacre if no enemy CV, potentially great game if enemy CV and you play smart. Sink him at the start or if you don't manage that sacrifice one squad by seperating it from others and attack with the rest.

USN: meh game if no enemy CV, meh game if enemy CV. Unless, you know, you get sunk right at the start. Because you can't protect yourself alone from strike IJN CV until Lexington unless you play air superiority, and that sucks cause dive bombers.

[Leonadios]

Try sending your planes in different directions... Gawd, is that so hard to think of? You can even keep them together until they get attacked and then seperate the attacked squad and have it go in opposite direction. When fighters are done with that squad they won't catch the rest in time. There is a reason why IJN CVs have considerably higher win rates than US.

 

Fighters are WAY faster than loaded bombers. Even if you use one to bait, the fighters will chew it up so fast that they will attack the rest before you can finish your attack.

[ShockPirat]

Yes they are faster. They aren't fast enough.

[Leonadios]

Yes they are faster. They aren't fast enough.

 

Tell that to the Ranger and the Shokaku and 2 Independences I just had to fight in my previous games.

 

My fighter squad engaged a cruiser fighter, lost 2 planes, ran out of ammo and still didn't kill the bloody thing.

[Takeda92]

Takeda, its actually like this:

 

IJN: massacre if no enemy CV, potentially great game if enemy CV and you play smart. Sink him at the start or if you don't manage that sacrifice one squad by seperating it from others and attack with the rest.

USN: meh game if no enemy CV, meh game if enemy CV. Unless, you know, you get sunk right at the start. Because you can't protect yourself alone from strike IJN CV until Lexington unless you play air superiority, and that sucks cause dive bombers.

 

I don't see tier 4 and 5 players underperforming. My clanmate in CBT had better results in his Ranger than Hiryuu and Shoukaku (he got the Ranger after). Seems to me people basing this whole USN CV is underpowered based on just 2-3 OP IJN CVs that WG already said they will nerf.

 

Now I was talking about performance. the FUN factor however is entirely different. I always criticized carrier gameplay for that. sealclubbing is not what I consider fun. Maybe some do but I don't. I don't like taking all strike loadouts and send TBs wave after wave at an enemy ship until he sinks, I don't like having only fighters that I click on the enemy planes and just watch them doing their job massacring the defenseless enemy planes. WG's approach to carriers for both IJN and USN is just wrong and not fun. All my suggestions to carrier gameplay was to change that, to remove specialty and change it to advantage vs disadvantage instead. In CBT I played the first 3 IJN carriers with the balanced setup just because I liked having the option of a fighter and the multi-tasking demands than came with having 3 kinds of squads that you have deal with, even if it meant that my average damage with it had to suffer, at least I had more fun playing this way, and I believe they should balance carriers from both nations around that. Heck I even went all the way to propose a complete loadout and mechanic rehaul proposal to carriers out of frustration.

[canuckster]

Ryujo AA Loadout - 1 fighter, 2 TBs, 2 DBs

Independence Strike Loadout - 2 fighters, 0 TBs, 1 DB

 

So, let me summarise my experience so far with the Ryujo when i'm up against an Independence. I send all of my planes around the map edge in an attempt to blow him out of the water. I come across 1 of his fighter squads. Fearing for the safety of my planes, I counter them with my fighter squad. All of my fighters die and none of his fighters are lost. I am left with 2 TBs and 2 DBs. I make my way toward the Independence and proceed to get shredded by the SINGLE fighter squadron.

 

...?

 

How is this balanced in any way what so ever? Don't tell me to use friendly AA, anything under tier 6 doesn't have any, and why should I have to use skill to counter something that takes no skill to pull off? US CVs are easy mode and ridiculous to fight against. Nothing I can do can prevent my entire strike force being shredded by OP US fighters.

 

I personally dislike carrier players that try to take out the carrier with their first wave, at least if it's 1v1 CVs. Knock out a cruiser or disable a BB instead, it will go a long way in helping your teammates protect you.

[Candarian]

 

I personally dislike carrier players that try to take out the carrier with their first wave, at least if it's 1v1 CVs. Knock out a cruiser or disable a BB instead, it will go a long way in helping your teammates protect you.

 

doesnt work

if the enemy tb reach u your ship is gone 

if the enemy fighter reach u your planes die seconds after they take off

the only chance with japanese carrier right now is to make the first carrier run into a success or u are free exp for the enemy for the rest of the round

[Karaya1]

 

doesnt work

if the enemy tb reach u your ship is gone 

if the enemy fighter reach u your planes die seconds after they take off

the only chance with japanese carrier right now is to make the first carrier run into a success or u are free exp for the enemy for the rest of the round

 

That is just [edited]. It might be a lot harder, but you are never just free XP unless out of planes. I managed to hold my own against Indepence or 2 CVs simply by looking for the friendly ship with best AA, and then park all my lpanes above it. If i see an opportunity to strike i take it. Since i always had a fighter, even if enemy fighters showed up i could retreat my bombers over the AA ship and slow down enemy fighters so they get slaughtered by AA. Worked pretty well.

[Iron_Gekko]

Ryujo AA Loadout - 1 fighter, 2 TBs, 2 DBs

Independence Strike Loadout - 2 fighters, 0 TBs, 1 DB

 

So, let me summarise my experience so far with the Ryujo when i'm up against an Independence. I send all of my planes around the map edge in an attempt to blow him out of the water. I come across 1 of his fighter squads. Fearing for the safety of my planes, I counter them with my fighter squad. All of my fighters die and none of his fighters are lost. I am left with 2 TBs and 2 DBs. I make my way toward the Independence and proceed to get shredded by the SINGLE fighter squadron.

 

...?

 

How is this balanced in any way what so ever? Don't tell me to use friendly AA, anything under tier 6 doesn't have any, and why should I have to use skill to counter something that takes no skill to pull off? US CVs are easy mode and ridiculous to fight against. Nothing I can do can prevent my entire strike force being shredded by OP US fighters.

 

So the Independence has no teeth and cannot kill you're carrier? Kite him, you'll have the bare minimum of ship kills that game, but that's what happens. Or better yet, get into a Division, make sure you have AA cruisers and kite him into those. Tier 6 is weak yes, but if I can do it then you can too.

 

Also if you're entire strike force is being "shredded" you must be doing something wrong, sorry but I never really had these issues because I never engaged US fighters unless it was optimal for me...

[Leonadios]

 

So the Independence has no teeth and cannot kill you're carrier? Kite him, you'll have the bare minimum of ship kills that game, but that's what happens. Or better yet, get into a Division, make sure you have AA cruisers and kite him into those. Tier 6 is weak yes, but if I can do it then you can too.

 

Also if you're entire strike force is being "shredded" you must be doing something wrong, sorry but I never really had these issues because I never engaged US fighters unless it was optimal for me...

 

US fighters are faster than ALL strike planes when loaded. Once your planes are spotted, you better hope his fighters are on the other side of the map.

[Cristalanthea]

 

you just have to move your planes up to allied cruiser is attracted enemy figthers with yours fighters

If the guy's not in the manual it will control all you lose is you get free way to torpedoed

hey it's not easy to do, but her works quite well

 

[St0ne_Monkey]

to the OP that's bull. Even if his fighters cold kill you without loss they do not carry enough ammo to kill all your planes. 

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

 

That is just [edited]. It might be a lot harder, but you are never just free XP unless out of planes. I managed to hold my own against Indepence or 2 CVs simply by looking for the friendly ship with best AA, and then park all my lpanes above it. If i see an opportunity to strike i take it. Since i always had a fighter, even if enemy fighters showed up i could retreat my bombers over the AA ship and slow down enemy fighters so they get slaughtered by AA. Worked pretty well.

 

but with low tier ones you run out of planes in about five minutes, ten if you play smart, and finish with some left if you play very smart (or knock him out at the start)

[7aMilizia]

I just finish to play some game whit the Ryūjō, setup 1 fighter lev 2+upgrade 2 bombers 2 torps, i totally agree whit Leonadios, the balancing suck! My fighter lost also vs t5 USA fighters! And vs t6 the die all in 2 sec, that's just ridiìculus, you guys can explain everything you want but the true is that the balancing suck.

I hope they will fix it fast because it's frustrating play in this way, personally i will stop to play japanese carriers and i hope all the other players will do it untill the next update.

 

 

 

St0ne_Monkey, on 09 August 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

to the OP that's bull. Even if his fighters cold kill you without loss they do not carry enough ammo to kill all your planes. 

About what u speak? i think you never played a carrier, t6 fighters can easly kill 2 torp squad.
 

[Flavio1997]

And then...how is it possible than when with my zuiho/riyu I encounter 2 full fighters lodout us carrier i do more exp than them toghether?  And I'm  using just 1 slot, not 2, as they are doing. You have to play smart, use the cover of  your friends. If you are agains a full fighter cv, try to snipe him is not alwais a viable option, if you don't  know some tricks