CV Speed against CAs, and hunting 2 CVs.

[havaduck]

One problem i ve by now encountered numerous times is chasing a cv with a cruiser. The thing is, aside from the Langley and the Bogue every CV is simply faster than a cruiser.

 

For everyone raising their hands: loosing speed due to turning and turn due to torpedoebombers ... you know the thing with torpedoes and straight lines ...

 

It gets even worse when you are stearing a IJN CA bc every lucky hit of a divebomber (you cant avoid, ofc) may or may not kill something vital .... like stearing or engine - keep that in mind if you combine it with "have to take some torpedo hits" and "flooding" + "fire".

 

Not even to mention that one group of torpedoebombers keeping their payload and lurking at ~ 5,5 km is threat enough, to not be able to chase them for any effect.

 

 

Crap starts realy to boil if you have 2 CVs, because naturally you now got 2 times the torpedoe-spam and divebomber module rape.

 

So what about just shoot them? Yes, if they are _closer than in range_ (they are moving _away_ so if youre just barely in range, you cant hit em ...), if they are not obscured by an island (that are so convinently placed in the spawn area for cv) and if they didnt allready make it into the save habour of their fleet.

Also they have basicly the hp pool of a cruiser .... even more if you consider that while chasing and avoiding crap you are ofc not able to bring your whole arsenal to bear.

 

 

And what about our hyp. chasing CA? Well, one AA barrage to eat maybe 1 torp, next wave he's dead.

So how about 2 CA? Maybe 4 planes in total more shot down, and a additional dead CA.

 

 

So generally speaking ...... One CV per side (max) is also for other reasons a good idea, and for the rest ... some 3-5 knots off of the faster-cv will prob. do.

 

 

But for destroyer hunting 2 CV and playing divebomber-module-roulette ... also needs some tuning.

[Spellfire40]

The problem if your seriously faster than a CV ur also faster than an DD mid tir DDs have exactly the same problem agist CA with a max speed around 35 you cant outrun and dodge vs a CA tha is keeping his bow in your direction ,-). Plus while your chasing a CV its forced to use its aircraft agist the one Target it is worst to do so and not atacking BBs or your teams CV so even without sinking it you helping your team.

 

 

 

 

Cya

 

Spellfire40

[havaduck]

Either I did write unclear or you missunderstood me .... i would make CVs slower, not CAs faster. ;)

 

And DD? Well they got the engine boost, they got smoke, they just need to get out of detection range and remember if you "just" point your bow at the dd he will throw a blanket of tightly grouped torpedos at it, that you then can not avoid if you finally see them - lets say you eat 2.

 

And if you dont "just point you bow" at the dd and maneuvre, which you should, you also bleed speed, and dd are faster overall, maneuvre in tighter circles AND also accelerate faster which adds up to: a lot faster than a ca.

 

And dont forget ...... CAs are supposed to counter DDs ..... so they should rightfully die if a CA can pin them down.

No DD captain would complain that a BB he pinned up close hasnt even the slightest fighting chance ...

 

 

 

[N00b32]

I play a lot of DDs and one of the problems I have is chasing carriers. And I wish I had the front guns of a CA, would make so much things easier. Also not all cruisers are slow, like the Phoenix speed is available here and there. but in general yes, hunting down a carrier is always an act. It was easier in the CBT, because most carrier captains didn't have sixth sense. Since they have, it got incredible hard. 

[Vaderan]

Ever tried to chase a Hosho with a St.Louis ot an USN BB because your team has lost everything quickery and he is the last survivor? Yeah, capping might be an option, but if it is to cap 3 bases, things look different. Some CVs seem to have weired camo abilities aswell...

[Sub_Eleven]

This issue has been raised already but for destroyers rather then cruisers. Don't even try chasing a carrier in a cruiser, if they have planes, you will die (assuming the cv is good). In a 1 vs 1 nothing beats a carrier save for another carrier, which is kind of a problem.

[Bigglesof206]

You aren't supposed to be able to automatically kill a class of ship. If the CVs are too fast for you to chase then you have to get close enough to shoot at them and try to knock an engine out while you chase them....the average CV gets kinda busy trying to run whilst still controlling airstrikes. You ,might also try to coordinate with a second player to take different paths to the CV so when he runs from one he heads towards the other.

 

Same with DDs, two DDs after a single CV becomes a race to see which of you gets him, there's never much doubt that one of you will.

[Vanhal]

You aren't supposed to be able to automatically kill a class of ship.

 

Of course not.

Unless you are a carrier apparently.

But aside this, carrier are suppose to be weak to everything else when in range of the guns and just die quite easily. While this is somewhat true, the part of "when in range" is problematic, as cruisers and DD problems are obvious, and the BB usually will have CV in their max range, and unless mighty lucky, CV is usually able to run without problems (unless it's Langley or Bogue). Also 1 vs 1 duel actually gives tremendous advantage to a carrier, as long as he don't sink really quickly - short range, which means very rapid plane attacks, just as OP stated.

[havaduck]

exactly Vanhal!

 

 

>>>>>>>>If the CVs are too fast for you to chase then you have to get close enough to shoot at them and try to knock an engine out while you chase them

 

- doesnt make any sense.

 

 

>>>>>>the average CV gets kinda busy trying to run whilst still controlling airstrikes

 

so just setting a auto-pilot course towards the cvs fleet and max throttle takes ... what 2 seconds?

 

>>>>>>>You ,might also try to coordinate with a second player to take different paths to the CV so when he runs from one he heads towards the other.

 

2 ca are not enough, he will sink one and then again, has a open window .... also the other cruiser/dd hast to be effectivly comming from the other side of the map. I'm not talking about beiing able to corner and kill a cv after most of his fleet has been wiped out, and hes pretty much sole survivor.

 

And again, think of 2 carriers ....

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Same with DDs, two DDs after a single CV becomes a race to see which of you gets him, there's never much doubt that one of you will.

 

Nope, first theres allway module damage from dive bombers and secondaries, and then again: the CV runs to his fleet. Lots and lots of angry ships.

 

 

But seemingly, Bigglesof has some blancing ideas for cvs on his own:

-cv should not be able to kill anything with certainty.

-two cv (or more) have to team up, to be able with any chance to damage a single ship

-torpedoes should travel so slow that they cant hit any ship reliably even if the cv cought them of guard (like straightlining). For the torpedoes to be able to hit, the torpedoes have to hit and knock out the targets engine.(doesnt make any sense, like I said)

 

 

Thank you for your contribution, but this list of nerfs to carriers seem a bit to harsh....

 

[DaWyrm]

I think it's ok that cruisers have a hard time chasing down CVs. CV is supposed to be fast. On the other hand, if they have to turn they will lose a LOT more speed than a cruiser and take a lot longer to get back to speed. So coordination is the key unless you can somehow sneak up on the CV and not open fire until it is well in range. You will spot the CV a while before he spots you unless his aircraft spot you.

[DaWyrm]

Looking down at history I can find only one carrier that were sunk by surface ships without first being crippled by aircraft, and that is HMS Glorious that was sunk by battleships KMS Scharnhorst and KMS Gniesenau that caught her unprepared with no aircraft in the air nor on the deck.

 

So, having CVs being hard to take on with lone cruisers is kind of WAD

[Spellfire40]

Looking down at history I can find only one carrier that were sunk by surface ships without first being crippled by aircraft, and that is HMS Glorious that was sunk by battleships KMS Scharnhorst and KMS Gniesenau that caught her unprepared with no aircraft in the air nor on the deck.

 

So, having CVs being hard to take on with lone cruisers is kind of WAD

 

Fleet CV yes CV overall no ,-)

 

 

USS Gambier Bay[edit]

As Japanese gunners concentrated on the closest target, Gambier Bay effectively was a sacrifice that diverted attention from the other fleeing carriers. It was 08:10 that Chikuma closed within 5 nmi (5.8 mi; 9.3 km) to finally land hits on the flight deck of Gambier Bay, which was the most exposed. Subsequent hits and near misses as the Japanese switched to high explosive (HE) shells first reduced her speed, and Gambier Bay was soon dead in the water. Three cruisers closed to point-blank range as destroyers such as Johnston were unsuccessful in trying to draw fire away from the doomed carrier. Fires raged through the riddled escort carrier. She capsized and sank at 09:07 with the majority of her nearly 800 survivors rescued two days later by landing and patrol craft dispatched from Leyte Gulf. Gambier Bay would be the first and only U.S. carrier sunk by naval gunfire in World War II.^[46]

 

 

^{Funny that people allways forget the largest sea battle in WW2: Sumar ,-)}

 

^cya

 

^Spellfire40

 

 

 

[Vanhal]

Looking down at history I can find only one carrier that were sunk by surface ships without first being crippled by aircraft, and that is HMS Glorious that was sunk by battleships KMS Scharnhorst and KMS Gniesenau that caught her unprepared with no aircraft in the air nor on the deck.

 

So, having CVs being hard to take on with lone cruisers is kind of WAD

 

WAD? Maybe, but don't use "realism" keyword as it is always bullcrap in WoWs. Want realistic CV's? Let's give them realistic time of preparing strike for example. Or maybe 1000km x 1000km maps? And so on and on and on. Same about rest of the classes. Drop the "realism" act it's only being used to whine about desired buffs/nerfs.

[Kirasa]

 

Fleet CV yes CV overall no ,-)

 

 

USS Gambier Bay[edit]

As Japanese gunners concentrated on the closest target, Gambier Bay effectively was a sacrifice that diverted attention from the other fleeing carriers. It was 08:10 that Chikuma closed within 5 nmi (5.8 mi; 9.3 km) to finally land hits on the flight deck of Gambier Bay, which was the most exposed. Subsequent hits and near misses as the Japanese switched to high explosive (HE) shells first reduced her speed, and Gambier Bay was soon dead in the water. Three cruisers closed to point-blank range as destroyers such as Johnston were unsuccessful in trying to draw fire away from the doomed carrier. Fires raged through the riddled escort carrier. She capsized and sank at 09:07 with the majority of her nearly 800 survivors rescued two days later by landing and patrol craft dispatched from Leyte Gulf. Gambier Bay would be the first and only U.S. carrier sunk by naval gunfire in World War II.^[46]

 

 

^{Funny that people allways forget the largest sea battle in WW2: Sumar ,-)}

 

^cya

 

^Spellfire40

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but IJN CV at least are ALL Fleet Carriers...

[Hummus]

I don't know what you are driving, but I haven't had much trouble chasing down CV's in my CA's.

Yes it can take a while and it's not a guaranteed kill if the CV reacts well ... but he's not getting away unless he has team mates coming to the rescue. And he won't be able to attack anybody else on the map.

 

When you go up against 2 carriers it starts to get tricky. You barely have any time to shoot them between all the dodging and weaving and if they work together they will sink you. But it will cost of a lot of time and a lot of planes.

But all in all it is very doable. Try to use cover to get close-ish to them if possible. Try to pen them against  the map edge so they can't run away. And just HE them till they burn. Once they are on fire you should be oke.  Also: friendly BB's like it when you force them to move in a straight line   and if they zig-zag you will catch up with them.

[DtXpwnz]

just a note... CVs bleed speed like crazy, their turn radius is absolutely terryfying. And acceleration is also really really bad.

[ttchip]

I don't know what you are driving, but I haven't had much trouble chasing down CV's in my CA's.

Yes it can take a while and it's not a guaranteed kill if the CV reacts well ... but he's not getting away unless he has team mates coming to the rescue. And he won't be able to attack anybody else on the map.

 

When you go up against 2 carriers it starts to get tricky. You barely have any time to shoot them between all the dodging and weaving and if they work together they will sink you. But it will cost of a lot of time and a lot of planes.

But all in all it is very doable. Try to use cover to get close-ish to them if possible. Try to pen them against  the map edge so they can't run away. And just HE them till they burn. Once they are on fire you should be oke.  Also: friendly BB's like it when you force them to move in a straight line   and if they zig-zag you will catch up with them.

 

You'll never catch a CV - especially high tier IJN ones - in a CA. CAs go between 33 and 35 knots. CVs go - big shocker - between 33 and 35 knots. CVs, if they sniff you out, will force you to turn and maneuver, meaning that you literally cannot hope to catch them. In addition to that, a CV is much more likely to find you before you find the CV in a CA.

[Hummus]

 

You'll never catch a CV - especially high tier IJN ones - in a CA. CAs go between 33 and 35 knots. CVs go - big shocker - between 33 and 35 knots. CVs, if they sniff you out, will force you to turn and maneuver, meaning that you literally cannot hope to catch them. In addition to that, a CV is much more likely to find you before you find the CV in a CA.

 

Yet somehow I usually don't have any trouble catching them. They often hang out near map edges or corners, which limits their running away options. So you just put in an interception course (don't run straight at them .... intercept, not chase)

The few times a CV is in the middle of the map with room to manoeuvre you can either sneak up on him because of cover, or depend on your team to wreck them because they are in the open and in range..... The maps are pretty small compared to the gun ranges, so it's not that hard to put them under your guns.

[specialkha]

 

Yet somehow I usually don't have any trouble catching them. They often hang out near map edges or corners, which limits their running away options. So you just put in an interception course (don't run straight at them .... intercept, not chase)

The few times a CV is in the middle of the map with room to manoeuvre you can either sneak up on him because of cover, or depend on your team to wreck them because they are in the open and in range..... The maps are pretty small compared to the gun ranges, so it's not that hard to put them under your guns.

 

I do not want to be mean at all. But with your stats, I doubt you can say you have no trouble to catch CVs.

[DaWyrm]

 

WAD? Maybe, but don't use "realism" keyword as it is always bullcrap in WoWs. Want realistic CV's? Let's give them realistic time of preparing strike for example. Or maybe 1000km x 1000km maps? And so on and on and on. Same about rest of the classes. Drop the "realism" act it's only being used to whine about desired buffs/nerfs.

 

I actually never used the word "realism" in my post. But designing a game such as this requires an element of realism, or else we could all just have flying camels with laserguns and slime-missiles that fights over a giant piece of cake.

[ttchip]

Yet somehow I usually don't have any trouble catching them. They often hang out near map edges or corners, which limits their running away options. So you just put in an interception course (don't run straight at them .... intercept, not chase)

The few times a CV is in the middle of the map with room to manoeuvre you can either sneak up on him because of cover, or depend on your team to wreck them because they are in the open and in range..... The maps are pretty small compared to the gun ranges, so it's not that hard to put them under your guns.

 

What's the highest tier CV you've faced? Tier 7? Omaha - the highest tier ship you've driven in OBT - outruns them all. Omaha is also one of the fastest ships you'll drive in that line. Try replicating that with any of the higher tiered CAs.

[Hummus]

I do not want to be mean at all. But with your stats, I doubt you can say you have no trouble to catch CVs.

 

What's the highest tier CV you've faced? Tier 7? Omaha - the highest tier ship you've driven in OBT - outruns them all. Omaha is also one of the fastest ships you'll drive in that line. Try replicating that with any of the higher tiered CAs.

 

Please note the "weekend tester" under my name .... I've played closed beta and had my shiny Des Moines there. So I've faced them all (I was actively hunting for planes in my US cruisers, and had a lot of run in with CV's .... hell I even got rammed by one in my Baltimore once ... I didn't see that coming )

 

Currently doing the slow grind (I don't have nearly as much free time anymore) towards the Cleveland, still have my 7 skill CBT captain standing ready for the Pepsi (god that grind is going to be though this time).

 

Doesn't change the fact that if you minimap correctly you can corner most CV's without to much hassle. The good ones you'll never even spot.

[ttchip]

 

 

Please note the "weekend tester" under my name .... I've played closed beta and had my shiny Des Moines there. So I've faced them all (I was actively hunting for planes in my US cruisers, and had a lot of run in with CV's .... hell I even got rammed by one in my Baltimore once ... I didn't see that coming )

 

Currently doing the slow grind (I don't have nearly as much free time anymore) towards the Cleveland, still have my 7 skill CBT captain standing ready for the Pepsi (god that grind is going to be though this time).

 

Doesn't change the fact that if you minimap correctly you can corner most CV's without to much hassle. The good ones you'll never even spot.

 

That's kind of the point of this discussion. No good CV player will let you catch up to him or corner him in the alotted time of 20 minutes. No amount of skill on your part will prevent that. You're at the whim of the CV sucking.

[aboch]

I play all classes, from DD to CV. You can catch a CV with DD or CA, it is all about how and from where you approach the target. Not always the shortest way/approach is the best one. Sometimes it pays back to take another route to intercept the CV and catch him unprepared as CVs lose much of speed while turning. Everything is like intended in my opinion. there is no reason why a CV shoudl be easy pray for a CA ....

[Sharana]

When I know they come for me (something spotted them from far away, while I'm still hidded) most of the times I can run away if I have safe place to run for, if they intercept me gg.

But when I'm actually spotted (~14km for my tier X) it's pretty bad even when running - BBs who shoot APs and can actually hit me score like lots of damage as the top tiers are pretty armoured (like ~40-50%hp in good salvo) while the HE spam from rapid firing cruisers is just a ticket to the port. Had Mogami yesterday that keeped 2 permanent fires on me and I just couldn't launch more planes to kill it.