CVs are OP challenge!

[AramilG]

Hello,

 

since I have noticed, that almost every single person who says "CVs are absolutely OP, they need nerfing, they destroy gameplay, they are no-skill, they just chose ship and it dies with no way to avoid damage, they are death from above, they destroy everything on low tiers because of little AA and on high tiers because planes become immortal" and rest of such BS have absolutely zero experience in playing carriers I decided to throw a challenge for them.

 

Conditions of challenge:

- I take a Wyoming

- You take a Langley (with at least torpedo bomber upgrade)

- we go into a training room, ocean map, encounter mode

- I constantly anounce in chat where I am, so you dont have to guess and look for me

- your job is to sink me

- both of us post replays of the battle

 

We will see how many strikes you need to win, how long it is going to take and how many planes you will have after winning and then we can discuss if low tier carriers are so OP as you claim or not.

 

Quick clarifications why I have chosen such rules:

- low tier BB and CV to make it easy for a CV-hater to get his ship (and I refuse to ever play Myoko again,so I take Wyoming;))

- Langley instead of Hosho because US carriers are designed to kill BBs and because drop pattern of IJN carriers is going to change (and because I know that with RNG Hosho can do 1 thing Langley cant and I dont want RNG in this challenge)

- Ocean map with 1 cap point to simulate normal battle where CV has to keep some distance from BBs at least at the beginning of the game and to have some way of punishing CV for a failed drop - you take to much time attacking and fail to hit, I cap, you lose

- I would like to remind that if I spot you I will shoot you;)

 

I am working full time and have a small child, so my time is limited, but I am usualy available after 10 PM GMT+2, we can schedule a battle via this thread or PM.

 

I will link this post in every single "CVs are OP, nerf" thread, lets see if any of you whiners have enough courage and honor to take it.

 

PS. I managed once to sink Wyoming with 1 drop, 2 are average, 3 are uncommon with my target selection. Lets see how long it will take to sink me;)

[YukiEiriKun]

Why are you limiting the CV to Langley? You know it is the weaker one of those tier 4 CV's. Your own stats prove that (0,81 sunk against 1,39 in Hosho).

And as far as I know, US carriers are more fighter oriented and Japanese one's are the TB oriented.

 

But then again, what do I know about CV's, nothing.

[Nethraniel]

A one on one on Ocean map is also quite biased... I see more a problem, in the heat of battle, where really a metric shitload of stuff is going on around you, and you have limited mobility due to islands and incoming fire...

[Vincinzerei]

Let me Take ANY DD.. and we have a Deal ;)

[AramilG]

Well, I havnt noticed threads "IJN CV are OP, US CV are fine" so I choose what I want;)

 

On a serious note - Hosho can (with help of RNG) deal a lot of dmg with flooding (if after a single torp hit - I will not get hit by more from a single squad flooding will start and second squad will just wait for me to repair and then get another lucky RNG flood from a single strike) - as I said I dont want RNG in this challenge at all, so I have chosen Langley.

 

Why Ocean? To force some distance between ships and spacing between attack, as I said in the beginning. I am not an idiot and I am not sailing next to islands in my BB anyway, so they will not hamper me in such experiment at all.

 

PS. To poster above - this is CV are OP challenge, not DD are OP challenge;)

[II_Nemesis_II]

Why are you limiting the CV to Langley? You know it is the weaker one of those tier 4 CV's. Your own stats prove that (0,81 sunk against 1,39 in Hosho).

And as far as I know, US carriers are more fighter oriented and Japanese one's are the TB oriented.

 

But then again, what do I know about CV's, nothing.

 

Master of cherrypicking . It seems to me that you forgot your yesterdays cherrypicking on my stats. So please have look again and tell us, what CV is more OP, Langley or Hosho?

[Vincinzerei]

PS. To poster above - this is CV are OP challenge, not DD are OP challenge;)

 Its good we have a Game where you have a Counter for everything.

Wyoming.. slow.. AA rate 20 with second Hull

Best AA Results at Close Range.. its just a matter of "How skilled is the CV Driver" till it is down.

 

Try the same with a Ryujo against a Cleveland.. Good Luck.

 

Currently i lost count of in how many threads folks have been told and told again to use a CA Protection against Carrier

In Low Levels on Tier 4 and Tier 5 AA is weak. But at Tier6 its getting Harder for the carriers to achieve good results.

You can see Tier 4 and 5 as Trainigstiers for every Shipclass, in avoiding Torps, getting known to Planes bot dive and Torp Bombers, also how to use your arment.. 

 

[II_Nemesis_II]

 Its good we have a Game where you have a Counter for everything.

Wyoming.. slow.. AA rate 20 with second Hull

Best AA Results at Close Range.. its just a matter of "How skilled is the CV Driver" till it is down.

 

Try the same with a Ryujo against a Cleveland.. Good Luck.

 

Currently i lost count of in how many threads folks have been told and told again to use a CA Protection against Carrier

In Low Levels on Tier 4 and Tier 5 AA is weak. But at Tier6 its getting Harder for the carriers to achieve good results.

You can see Tier 4 and 5 as Trainigstiers for every Shipclass, in avoiding Torps, getting known to Planes bot dive and Torp Bombers, also how to use your arment.. 

 

 

Even with Bogue or Zuiho, you can come accross Cleveland... so even in tier 5CV the AA/MM can screw you completely over.

And it is not only Cleveland, every single USN CA tier 6-10 is completely deadly to a carrier on same tier. That's just how it is and it's what a lot of "0 carrier games" players won't ever understand.

[YukiEiriKun]

Master of cherrypicking . It seems to me that you forgot your yesterdays cherrypicking on my stats. So please have look again and tell us, what CV is more OP, Langley or Hosho?

 

What? When talking about TB's, Japanese are more TB orientaded are they not.

You are not making any sense now..

 

And you claimed that they are "main damage dealers" but failed to provide WG statement of that even that I asked it on two different threads.

Please provide. I told that I am happy to jump into the CV bandwagon as well if WG has officially stated that CV's should be the main damage dealers to boos up my average XP. So far I have not since I really did not find them that exciting in CBT.

[twibs]

Interesting, I might have to take you on on this, if I can find the right spot.

[AramilG]

 Its good we have a Game where you have a Counter for everything.

Wyoming.. slow.. AA rate 20 with second Hull

Best AA Results at Close Range.. its just a matter of "How skilled is the CV Driver" till it is down.

 

Try the same with a Ryujo against a Cleveland.. Good Luck.

 

Currently i lost count of in how many threads folks have been told and told again to use a CA Protection against Carrier

In Low Levels on Tier 4 and Tier 5 AA is weak. But at Tier6 its getting Harder for the carriers to achieve good results.

You can see Tier 4 and 5 as Trainigstiers for every Shipclass, in avoiding Torps, getting known to Planes bot dive and Torp Bombers, also how to use your arment.. 

 

 

I know all that. Thing is, whiners obviously do not. I expect to be sunk, but I expect Langley to do 5+ runs to finaly take me down, it will take 15 min+ and he will lose most of his planes. Of course Wyoming will lose against carrier, because of kiting. It will lose against any enemy that outrange him and is faster, simple as that. Thing is, if carrier is focusing 1 BB for all the game to take him down is he OP? I dont think so.

 

I want to show that even at low tiers BB should not die in 1-2 TB strikes (if they have any situational awarness) and that even tier 4 BB can take down multiple planes - I regulary read claims that planes are almost invulnerable to AA fire, lets test that.

 

If I would take Cleveland, I would NOT get hit more than twice before sinking CV, this is not what I want to show. And lets face it, Cleveland is way to strong for his tier, using ship perceived as OP to show that something else is not OP is not a best idea ever;)

 

 

What? When talking about TB's, Japanese are more TB orientaded are they not.

You are not making any sense now..

 

And you claimed that they are "main damage dealers" but failed to provide WG statement of that even that I asked it on two different threads.

Please provide. I told that I am happy to jump into the CV bandwagon as well if WG has officially stated that CV's should be the main damage dealers to boos up my average XP. So far I have not since I really did not find them that exciting in CBT.

 

Can you please stop this argument with czNemesis (in this particular thread at least) and just accept the challenge? If you think CVs are OP, prove it and strike me down in 3 attacks maximum.

 

If you want some rules adjustment we can talk.

 

Interesting, I might have to take you on on this, if I can find the right spot.

 

Great, tell me when you are available and we can try someday in the evening (I will just need an hour or 2 of preparations to train captain on Wyoming since I will have to buy this ship).

[Xevious_Red]

It would be interesting to see vs hosho as well. I know the OP stated doesn't want there to be any RNG, but you run the risk of someone turning around afterwards and saying "oh well if there were 2 squads it's totally unavoidable". This would be both of the low tier carriers, and both types of torp spread.

Also, given that flooding + waiting is a current tactic, this should be included in the possibilities.

[YukiEiriKun]

Can you please stop this argument with czNemesis (in this particular thread at least) and just accept the challenge? If you think CVs are OP, prove it and strike me down in 3 attacks maximum.

 

I don't want to play with CV's, I tried them in CBT and they were boring.

But perhaps I should, since I already gave up on my "no DD's" priciple as well..

[AramilG]

It would be interesting to see vs hosho as well. I know the OP stated doesn't want there to be any RNG, but you run the risk of someone turning around afterwards and saying "oh well if there were 2 squads it's totally unavoidable". This would be both of the low tier carriers, and both types of torp spread.

Also, given that flooding + waiting is a current tactic, this should be included in the possibilities.

 

I agree that is a valid tactic - I will be glad to make same experiment with Hosho or maybe in higher tier ships (I have an easy access to tier 5 and 6 BB and tier 8 cruiser), but Langley go first as proof of concept and base to compare future results.

 

YukiEiriKun - I am sorry that I am "forcing" you to play something you find not very interesting, but I am sacrificing myself to take part in this experiment too (I will have to sell some ship to get a place for Wyoming, buy Wyoming and play it which I never planned to do, so I will waste some credits and time).

[Krogort]

I challenge you to get 4800 "scoreboard" XP with any ship but a Carrier.

Lets see if carrier are OP.

 

 

[Vincinzerei]

expect Langley to do 5+ runs to finaly take me down, it will take 15 min+ and he will lose most of his planes.

 i really suck at playing Carrier.. so much i just do PVE Games with it..

but even i dont need more then 2 approaches against a wyoming..

[AramilG]

 i really suck at playing Carrier.. so much i just do PVE Games with it..

but even i dont need more then 2 approaches against a wyoming..

 

So please, show me instead of just bragging.

 

Sinking brain-dead Wyoming sailing for 10 minutes in straight line is possible even in 1 strike but it is not a proof for CV OPness.

 

 

Krogort - can you please go troll somewhere else? You get such result in 1/1000 games if you are realy good player, enemy team is full of [edited] and your team is full of [edited] too. After enough players will reach tier 10 (where XP rewards are higher than low tiers) other ships will start to get such games too.

 

I asked for a simple thing - sink poor, little, underpowered, helpless BB with OP aircraft carrier in a single game, you ask me to grind to tier 10, play 3000 games there (I am not a realy good player) and then show you my best result. Just...go away, troll. Or accept the challenge.

[Vincinzerei]

Still dont get it. Why should it be a proof of CV OPness when a low tier carrier sink a lonly low tier low AA Battleship?

 

[el_bloom]

This thread is really cool. Everytime a cv op thread pops up we can link it there 

 

[chaplainDMK]

I challenge you to get 4800 "scoreboard" XP with any ship but a Carrier.

Lets see if carrier are OP.

 

 

 

Holy F

[AramilG]

Still dont get it. Why should it be a proof of CV OPness when a low tier carrier sink a lonly low tier low AA Battleship?

 

 

I will try to explain this in a simple way for you:

 

I want to disprove lies spread in CVs are OP threads by ignorant players, who never played a CV:

 

1. It is impossible to dodge manual drops

2. Low tier ships cannot kill planes with their AA

3. CV player can circle BB as long as he want, planes turns in place and he is always able to do a perfect drop

4. CV player can delete every ship from map without any effort in 1 strike

5. Playing CV takes no skill whatsover

 

Well, lets see if all above is true. If I will manage to survive over 15 minutes against same tier CV in a BB I think I will prove my point.

[Sigimundus]

CV was, are and will be OP. 

This is from nature and concept of this class of ships.

I was playing all US CV and Jap CV in CBT and now I have Ryujo in dock.

1. If CV player knows what he is doing than it is impossible to dodge manual drops.

2. Low level ships have really small AA defense

3. If the BB ships is alone then Yes it is true.

4. Yes it is true . . . but any ships in this game can "delete" other ships if the RNG god is on her side

5. Playing any ships takes no skill . . . You need skill only if you want to be good player

 

[AramilG]

CV was, are and will be OP. 

This is from nature and concept of this class of ships.
I was playing all US CV and Jap CV in CBT and now I have Ryujo in dock.

1. If CV player knows what he is doing than it is impossible to dodge manual drops.
2. Low level ships have really small AA defense
3. If the BB ships is alone then Yes it is true.

4. Yes it is true . . . but any ships in this game can "delete" other ships if the RNG god is on her side
5. Playing any ships takes no skill . . . You need skill only if you want to be good player

 

Please, instead of bragging and spout nonsence accept my challenge. Prove you are right and I am wrong. Otherwise, stop lying.

[Vincinzerei]

in some sort you are both right..

 

1.  you may not dodge all torpedos.. 1 or 2 will hit you

2. with a low Level Ship and if there is some time, just drop the torps in his path.. rudder shift time will do the rest (you dont have to hit with all torps)

3. you will not always get a perfekt drop. but you also dont need to. a Dive Bomber with fire damage will do the rest.. or you send him in front and let flooding to the work

4. yes. IF the enemy ship does not take any actions to avoid this because of tunnel vision on some other target..

5. also with auto torping you get your hits.. not that many as with a good manual.. but you will. i just take longer..

 

edit: About the challange. i have a bogue with strike setup

if iam allowed to use diver bomber too, i will get you killed in the first 5 minutes

if not.. it will for sure take longer because i will need at least two approaches because not all torps will hit.

[NextToYou]

Your "challenge" has nothing to do with PvE environment with several things to focus on.