French Navy: Any thoughts on it?

[CrazyWelshy]

Considering the timeline of the ships in the game, and I am FAR from being knowledgeable of any French Naval arsenal.  Has any thought been paid to them in the game?  They were a respectable navy prior and during the early WWII era.  

 

That being said, any love for Italian naval units?

 

EDIT:  I found a nice wiki link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Navy#Fleet_construction_between_the_World_Wars

The Super-fast Destroyer class Le Fantasque seems like eligible candidates already. As is the Italian response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Fantasque-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitani_Romani-class_cruiser

 

EDIT 2: Am I the only one seeing the Captani Romani-class as an Italian Atlanta class, just faster?

[Vaderan]

The french navy was pretty slow in developing new ships and classes, at least in terms of Dreadnaughts and Battleships/cruisers. They had some 2 classes of Dreadnaughts and two pre WWII designs being build with the Dunkerque and Richelieu class. While the Richelieu might make up for a unique tier 8 BB design, the rest of the BB tree would be mix of pretty unconventional Dreadnaughts, some blueprints and the Dunkerque, which would be even too weak for a tier 6 BB. I don´t know much about their CAs and DDs, but the lack of BBs and with just one inferior CV design, the Bearn, i wouldn´t call the french navy a respectable one, since it seems inferior in firepower even to the already weak WWII german navy.

Since WoWs takes ships from 1900-1945+ into account, the french navy seems to be the most unimportant of the european navies, despite the spanish, maybe. As a result, i wouldn´t be too surprised if the importance of introducing the french navy is inferior even to the italian navy, which has some interesting desings to offer.

But it wouldn´t be Wargaming, if they wouldn´t dig out some blueprints or scetches from someone with a french name to invent a full tech tree for a french navy. However, i wouldn´t expect anything french despite some premium ships maybe before 2 or three years from now...

[Magni56]

I want the Spica-class as a tier 2 DD for the Italians. Those things look funny as hell and they did some insane things during Crete.

 

[fallenkezef]

Considering that we sank or stole almost all of the French navy in 1940, the higher tiers may be a problem. I'm not sure how much research they did because you will need allot of paper ships to take that line past T6.

[Hedzik]

O rly?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Richelieu

[Br1ckbuster]

Ah, the French navy. Here are the battleships that I know of.

 

Dunkerque Class- Maybe around tier 6/7?

Richeliu- Maybe 7/8 or 5/6?

 

Just some Ideas

[JapLance]

Considering that we sank or stole almost all of the French navy in 1940, the higher tiers may be a problem. I'm not sure how much research they did because you will need allot of paper ships to take that line past T6.

 

Maybe have you read an alternative history book?

 

 In 1940 the British only sunk Bretagne and captured a few (useless) ships in Southern England, and in 1941 sunk a couple of destroyers off Syria. The Alexandria Squadron was not captured but disarmed. Most of the French Fleet scuttled in Toulon in 1942, and the rest joined the Allies a bit later.

 

 

Destroyers can be taken to tier 9 or even 10 without making up a single ship. Richelieu is a solid Tier 8 Battleship, and I'm sure some projects can reach tier 9. In the cruiser line Algerie would be a tier 7 or 8...

[Bish0ps]

 

Maybe have you read an alternative history book?

 

 In 1940 the British only sunk Bretagne and captured a few (useless) ships in Southern England, and in 1941 sunk a couple of destroyers off Syria. The Alexandria Squadron was not captured but disarmed. Most of the French Fleet scuttled in Toulon in 1942, and the rest joined the Allies a bit later.

 

 

Destroyers can be taken to tier 9 or even 10 without making up a single ship. Richelieu is a solid Tier 8 Battleship, and I'm sure some projects can reach tier 9. In the cruiser line Algerie would be a tier 7 or 8...

 

He read this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-K%C3%A9bir

[Bl4ckh0g]

There is already a topic about the MN

 

The french navy was pretty slow in developing new ships and classes, at least in terms of Dreadnaughts and Battleships/cruisers. They had some 2 classes of Dreadnaughts and two pre WWII designs being build with the Dunkerque and Richelieu class. While the Richelieu might make up for a unique tier 8 BB design, the rest of the BB tree would be mix of pretty unconventional Dreadnaughts, some blueprints and the Dunkerque, which would be even too weak for a tier 6 BB. I don´t know much about their CAs and DDs, but the lack of BBs and with just one inferior CV design, the Bearn, i wouldn´t call the french navy a respectable one, since it seems inferior in firepower even to the already weak WWII german navy.

Since WoWs takes ships from 1900-1945+ into account, the french navy seems to be the most unimportant of the european navies, despite the spanish, maybe. As a result, i wouldn´t be too surprised if the importance of introducing the french navy is inferior even to the italian navy, which has some interesting desings to offer.

But it wouldn´t be Wargaming, if they wouldn´t dig out some blueprints or scetches from someone with a french name to invent a full tech tree for a french navy. However, i wouldn´t expect anything french despite some premium ships maybe before 2 or three years from now...

 

 

Why would be the Dunkerque weak for even tier 6? That ship is way better than tier 6 ships. Look at her gun That's perfectly adequate for a tier 7 ship. If you compare it to the British 15" one, It's penetration is really good. 

And because of the All forward quadruple turret arrangement, the salvos of the Dunky will be quite tight and you can angle the ship really,really well.

It can compete in tier 7 easily. 

Also there's that the ship can reach 30 knots.

 

 

[TLG_]

i think the French Navy should be right behind the English Navy in front of the Italien Navy

[Vaderan]

There is already a topic about the MN

 

 

Why would be the Dunkerque weak for even tier 6? That ship is way better than tier 6 ships. Look at her gun That's perfectly adequate for a tier 7 ship. If you compare it to the British 15" one, It's penetration is really good. 

And because of the All forward quadruple turret arrangement, the salvos of the Dunky will be quite tight and you can angle the ship really,really well.

It can compete in tier 7 easily. 

Also there's that the ship can reach 30 knots.

 

 

 

If you read your linked article carefully, you might answer that quastion to yourself. The Dunkerque at tier 6 would be a ship, running 30 knots with maybe adequate armor protection and 8 330mm guns, where other ships like the Fuso and the New Mexico boost 12 355mm guns. The article tells of incredible gun dispersion, something that, would it be take into consideration by WG, would decrease the performance even more. In addition, it is well known that tripple and quad turrets of early desings had a rather low reload speed, compared to double barrel turrets.

Having a look how WG handles the penetration and damage mechanics in this game, the AP damage of the 330mm guns will be less compared to 355mm ap shells. I can´t tell about penetrations, since these mechanics seem to be rather rng depending.

The Dunkerque would be inferior to other BBs of tier 6 in terms of armament and maybe just en par in terms of armor. Her advantage lies in her above average speed, but this will be compensated by the fact, that her main armament is not able to fire backwards, while keeping or increasing distance to an enemy. So, unless WG doesn´t implement the Dunkerque with tons of fantasy balancing, like fantasy rate of fire, fantasy turret traverse speed and fantasy accuracy, she will be just below average in the game winning aspects, if she has to take on another tier 6 BB.

However, i could imagine her to be a formidable cruiser hunter.

[mr3awsome]

Except that by the time the Dunkerque was built the French had been designing quadruple turrets for nearly two decades. 

The Normandie and Lyons class should serve at tiers 5 & 6.

 

Compared to the KM, at the outbreak of war its the French in the lead, due to the much larger, and more able destroyers along with the greater strength of cruisers. 

Only after the Battle of France does the KM pull ahead. 

[Bl4ckh0g]

 

If you read your linked article carefully, you might answer that quastion to yourself. The Dunkerque at tier 6 would be a ship, running 30 knots with maybe adequate armor protection and 8 330mm guns, where other ships like the Fuso and the New Mexico boost 12 355mm guns. The article tells of incredible gun dispersion, something that, would it be take into consideration by WG, would decrease the performance even more. In addition, it is well known that tripple and quad turrets of early desings had a rather low reload speed, compared to double barrel turrets.

Having a look how WG handles the penetration and damage mechanics in this game, the AP damage of the 330mm guns will be less compared to 355mm ap shells. I can´t tell about penetrations, since these mechanics seem to be rather rng depending.

The Dunkerque would be inferior to other BBs of tier 6 in terms of armament and maybe just en par in terms of armor. Her advantage lies in her above average speed, but this will be compensated by the fact, that her main armament is not able to fire backwards, while keeping or increasing distance to an enemy. So, unless WG doesn´t implement the Dunkerque with tons of fantasy balancing, like fantasy rate of fire, fantasy turret traverse speed and fantasy accuracy, she will be just below average in the game winning aspects, if she has to take on another tier 6 BB.

However, i could imagine her to be a formidable cruiser hunter.

 

 

You do not take into consideration How people would play her.

Both the Dunkerque and the Richelieu are insanely oriented toward an aggressive gameplay.

They are limited by this of course, heavily, but on a one on one situation or within a division, This ship is insane.

 

The all forward arrangement means that the ship will quite literally sail straight towards you firing all of her guns, presenting the smallest target possible, charging toward you at 30 knots.

Essentially this ship on the offense is impervious to citadel penetrations.( And really hard to hit)

The problem with the tier 6 placement is that If 2 people just queue up in a Division with 2 Dunkerques and get minimal support from their team, they can cut through a whole battle-line without problem. To counter this you have to split the team and flank them, do you think that is possible in tier 6 random battles?

 

Basically When this ship(and Richelieu) played right They can wreck havoc in no time.

 

You can try to initiate a close range broadside duel where your ship has the advantage, but the Dunkerque is way faster than any tier 6(or 7) ship.

Yes, If someone would play her like a proper battleship, then yes She is around tier 6, but She can use tactics that make her way superior in that regard.

 

There are ways when a tier 6 or 5 ship can kill a Dunkerque, but I feel that in tier 6 She could be an insane seal clubber.

 

I mean, compared to the Fuso or New Mexico, You give up 4 guns and some armor, to gain insane angling capacity, and 9-5 knots plus speed.

And even with the current tier 7 battleships, she would be a viable tier 7.

In tier 8 She can go battlecruiser mode and hunt down cruisers, and her guns are capable of handling most battleships in tier 5-8.

 

[Unintentional_submarine]

I suggest you guys take a look at the Alsace class. It should be able to sit easily at T9 and maybe T10, T9 with it's 380mm guns (3x3 or 3x4 setups, design option 1 and design option 3 respectively) and T10 with it's 406mm guns (3x3, design option 2). At T10 it might lack a bit of punch though.

[CactuarLOL]

Didn't we steal most of the french ships, or sink them before the germans could use them?

 

[Edited]

[Bl4ckh0g]

Didn't we steal most of the french ships, or sink them before the germans could use them?

 

Either way there aren't enough White Flags in the signals to fill an entire tree of french ships. 

 

Same with RN, WG will have to use paper designs for a couple of lines.

[CactuarLOL]

Yah, There are some fantastic RN ships in production that were cancelled at the wars end though so that shouldn't be a problem.

[fallenkezef]

 

I think tier 9/10 will be the British problem. Especialy with cruisers as we focused on light cruisers for convoy and patrol. With BB's and BC's for the big fights. Our strategy was the sane as the Napoleonic wars, blockade the enemy in port, hunt down any capital ship that broke out and gangbang her with superior numbers. We didn't need big gun ships for that, we needed speedy ships with good range. 

 

[mr3awsome]

 

I think tier 9/10 will be the British problem. Especialy with cruisers as we focused on light cruisers for convoy and patrol. With BB's and BC's for the big fights. Our strategy was the sane as the Napoleonic wars, blockade the enemy in port, hunt down any capital ship that broke out and gangbang her with superior numbers. We didn't need big gun ships for that, we needed speedy ships with good range. 

You say that, but British ships are likely to be on the slower side (N3 and L3 being the epitome of this, 23 & 25 knots at tiers 9 & 10)

Also, St Vincent, Trafalgar and the Glorious First of June all involved inferior sized British forces. 

[haplo34]

[edited]

 

[CactuarLOL]

 

[edited]

 

 

^This, lol

[haplo34]

I mean this white flag jokes are getting old, lame and are very disrespectful to french people, mostly the french resistance who has kept fighting during the occupation and saved a lot of jews.

You can't blame the whole country just because we were betrayed by a part of our government. Plus these guys were judged and for the most part executed after the war.

 

[edited]

[Historynerd]

i think the French Navy should be right behind the English Navy in front of the Italien Navy

 

There is also the Kriegsmarine to consider.

 

It should be obvious that the Royal Navy and the Kriegsmarine will be added first; then, it'll be a match-up between the Marine Nationale and the Regia Marina. I say this because it remains the fact that the Italian ships fought hard and many times, while French ships have a much shorter combat record. 

 

If the French ships come before, well, it's fine. But there's a chance that it might be the other way around.

 

And by the way, you still haven't answered to my objection to your claim that the Italian Navy couldn't design carriers, on the other topic...

 

I mean this white flag jokes are getting old, lame and are very disrespectful to french people, mostly the french resistance who has kept fighting during the occupation and saved a lot of jews.

You can't blame the whole country just because we were betrayed by a part of our government. Plus these guys were judged and for the most part executed after the war.

 

[edited]

 

Apart from all of the other considerations, your comments, while understandable, are the same as me asking in the WoT forums to stop saying the same old jokes about the Italian tanks having one gear forwards and four reverse, and stuff; they won't stop, even if I could claim as you that those are disrespectful to my country.

 

In the end, I realized that stupid people will keep telling them, and intelligent people will check the truth with an open mind; so don't bother.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Are there really any sensible people who would want to play with FRENCH ships?

[Historynerd]

Are there really any sensible people who would want to play with FRENCH ships?

 

I would like it very much; it should be very interesting playing the all-forward ships like the Dunkerque and the Richelieu, and others.