There need to be more support bonuses.

[St4n]

I'm not complaining about OP stuff, I just want to say that there will be no teamplay until teamplay is rewarded properly.

Coming from WoT teamplay will also not getting much better at hightiers.

 

WoT example: In the beginning there was no assist bonus for tracking. Yes, tracking someone in the open may have been better for your team and raising the chance to win, but you rather would damage him and let him drive to cover in order to get credits/exp. Now, with this assist bonus it's much more viable to track someone if you know your team will get several shots at him.

 

Problem: A victory bonus is not viable to entice players to play as/for the team.

Without proper support boni the result is the following:

If you play for the team you will get less exp/credits than playing for damage. No matter if you win or lose, the reward will be less compared to maximizing damage.

You might win some games more, but that is marginally in exp/credits reward.

For every percentage of winrate gain you need to lose less percentage in average exp or it's not worth it.

 

Example:

Average exp per battle: 500

winrate: 48%

Exp gain over 100 battles: 62,000exp

 

Now you start supperting your team. Properly screening your BBs, defending CVs, not running off, etc. Your average exp drops, since your damage output is less and support isn't realy rewarding, but your winrate raises.

You now have a winrate of 52%. In order to get the same 62,000exp over 100 games you can only afford to lower your average exp at most to 492exp. And with an average of 492exp per battle you are at +/-0 compared to before. So you are not rewarded at all for learning and executing teamplay, you are even punished if you can't hold your average exp on the same level.

 

There is also a psychologic barrier as why the victory bonus doesn't entice teamplay:

No matter if you see destroyed enemies/damage/victory as reward or the exp/credits you get for that. In both cases the damage/destruction is way more directly, you imediatelly know you have done something good while a victory is much more abstract.

 

So my conclusion is that the game needs a better and especially a more direct way to reward teamplay.

 

The following are suggestions of mine and must not be taken as facts:

Note: Every bonus is meant as exp/credit bonus only. (not damage)

1. BBs get a bonus aura of 10km:

- every damage that friendly DDs and Cruisers do from inside that circle get 10% bonus

- every damage to an enemy DDs inside that circle get 40% bonus

- both are cumulative

2. CVs get a bonus aura of 15km:

- every damage to enemies inside the aura get 10% bonus (except for the CV itself)

- if one CV survives the battle or is the last destroyed everyone in the team pays 10% less for repairs

3. DD only:

- every enemy torpedo that you spot first and which does no damage to friendly ships gives you a very small fixed bonus

- every enemy lock on friendly ships broken by your smokescreen gives you a small fixed bonus

- every enemy shot inside or trough your smokescreen without lock-on gives you a very small fixed bonus (does also count for attacks of planes)

4. Cruiser only:

- an enemy plane that is shot down gives 20% of it's destruction value to every Cruiser that damaged it prior to that

- if the plane couldn't drop it's load before destruction this bonus is doubled

- for every second your AA range is overlapping with a friendly ships AA range while enemies TB or DB are spotted you get a very small fixed bonus (capped at 2 overlaps)

 

Every of these boni should also be represented ingame with small medals (like fire startet) and big medals (like destroy 4 enemy ships while...) to show the player directly the reward for his actions.

 

Also all the numbers are just pulled out of my ***. They are just to show the examples and offcourse need balancing.

What I'm interessted in:

Do you have other ideas how to promote teamplay? Are you opposing this concept of directly rewarding teamplay? What would you change/propose?

 

 

 

[Takru]

I like the general concept and do agree that teamwork should get some more rewards.

 

How about giving a AA boost to ships if they are near (max 1 km) each other?

How about a small direct reward for spotting enemies first?

Reward for lots of miles in a game?

 

I do see that some ideas would be hard to translate into scripts, but how about a saviour achievement? When you destroy a ship which has reduced on one of your ships HP by at least 50%, you get the extra reward? (Although this could potentially backfire ...)

[Bish0ps]

There's definitely something to explore here

 

[Sharon_Valerii]

Yes please. Its so often that Im the only one trying to play the role insted just rush in to blast one ship. 

[gbgroger]

I concur fully with this thread!

[St4n]

I like the general concept and do agree that teamwork should get some more rewards.

 

How about giving a AA boost to ships if they are near (max 1 km) each other?

How about a small direct reward for spotting enemies first?

Reward for lots of miles in a game?

 

I do see that some ideas would be hard to translate into scripts, but how about a saviour achievement? When you destroy a ship which has reduced on one of your ships HP by at least 50%, you get the extra reward? (Although this could potentially backfire ...)

 

The AA boost could be viable since avoiding fire from 2 directions is harder than avoiding fire from one direction.

But I find 1km too short, ships would need to hug each other too much.

 

The direct reward for first spotting is a double edged sword. Yes, your team could use that information, but WoT has shown the ugly side... Before the spotting assist damage was in WoT there was just exp/credits for the first spot and it lead to many suicide scouts who just rushed into the enemy spawn as fast as possible in order to spot many enemies first. Than died while noone could shoot at the enemies which where still out of range/in cover. Now replace scout with DD.

 

I would agree on some sort of spotting assist like in WoT, so you get exp/credits for spotting enemies that get damaged by your team. I just would change "the exp is shared between spotter(s) and shooter". Only getting 50% of their exp will lead to people not shooting at that scouted BB in front of you and instead shoot at that Cruiser they can see themselfs. It rather has to be a bonus to the spotter, while the shooter still get's full exp/credits himself.

 

Also a simple reward just for milage would get abused by just doing circles in the spawn area. It needs to be tied to another condition. What do you want to achieve with this? Less camping?

[EvilBob]

Sorry to derail the thread, but bonus is not a Latin word, so therefore the plural is bonuses. If it was Latin then boni would be legit. 

 

Anyway... I do like the idea of encouraging team play, but some of these bonuses do shoe horn the ship type too much. For example, some cruisers actually have poor AA, so no bonus to this will help them.

[Takru]

This was really just meant as throwing in ideas, feel free to alter them so they fit into the picture.

 

Bonus on milage really was meant to reward those who make the long way around the enemy to get to the Carriers but get shot to pieces before seeing their plan come to fruitation.

[VonVolks]

Team work rewards are crucial. I think fit support ships like DDs and CAs is essential.

 

For example double the reward (or triple) for shooting down planes if within your AA range of friendly BB or CV.

 

DDs should also get a spotting damage reward for any target they reveal which continues until they are spotted too.

[Adwaenyth]

Sorry to derail the thread, but bonus is not a Latin word, so therefore the plural is bonuses. If it was Latin then boni would be legit.

 

Bonus actually IS a latin word. It only got anglicized and thus the plural is bonuses in English now while it stays boni in several other languages.

[EvilBob]

I stand corrected, but the point still stands, boni is not an English word. I only raised the issue because the title of the thread was hard to put into context. 

 

As for suggestions, maybe the bonuses could be more ship specific and less class specific. Really build on the strengths and weaknesses of each ship to encourage people to use them with the team. For example a wolf pack bonus to light cruisers, greater damage for each ship in the pack. The speed of some cruisers and lack of AA on certain IJN cruisers is really pointing at them being used to hound the opposition in packs, instead of being held back with the core of the fleet to provide cover.

 

[strangers123]

 

Bonus actually IS a latin word. It only got anglicized and thus the plural is bonuses in English now while it stays boni in several other languages.

 

Whether true or not, "bonuses" appears less confusing

 

OT

Average XP in a players stats takes into account premium, first win of the day and confederate flags. If anything one would have to normalise this into a base XP.

While I agree to rewarding teamplay, and the methods the OP suggested, in the end damage is usually what matters. If you protect your CV from getting killed by the enemy CV you negate the damage of the enemy CV and enable yours to deal damage.

Same for spotting torpedoes and using the AA skill to increase bomber attack pattern spread. You reduce the damage of the enemy and enable a potential increase in yours.

The only thing I think should be changed is that planes destroyed actively (by fighters, or selecting them as a target for AA fire) should get a small boost to XP gain over passive AA kills and fighter escort kills. 

Also, DDs are NOT equivalent, or similar to light tanks at all. Other than their guns being weaker than other classes but thats compensated by torps. DDs compare more to artillery people usually tend to move. You CAN close the distance and totally wreck a battleship. Doesn't mean you will survive closing the range, doesn't mean you will survive after torpedoing the battleship and it doesn't mean its something you should always try to do. Same for artillery.

What you usually try to do is to torp from INVISIBLE against targets that are unaware of your position. Same for usual arty gameplay. Your projectiles are both slow and can be avoided and both have long reloads for high alpha.

 

CVs should be doing the scouting. Their planes can travel fast over the map, they can negate enemy scouting (air and ship) and is something planes do by default anyways (if you actually want to use them for something, like, you know, dealing damage)

 

The only two things I think should get a bonus is focus fire AA and assistance spotting a teammate that cannot detect it through his own means.

That means that if you do protect your fleet with AA, you get the bonus if you actually put the effort to further increase your AA power (refer to Sharana's basics of AA guide). Same for protecting the carrier

This will also mean no suicide charges since there is no reward for first spotting. Which is something the carrier is probably going to get anyways if it did exist.

[Khul]

I agree OP, out of plus-ones, sorry mate.

 

Also, some sort of banner explaining to battleship captains that they require support from other classes would be useful; perhaps a flashing one that blocks out half the screen.

[Nethraniel]

Shoot... cannot remember where I read that post from a supertester... there will be something like support actions awarded with creds/XP... just wait for it, it will come. 

[Argysh]

Average XP in a players stats takes into account premium, first win of the day and confederate flags. 

 

Not quite. Flags and daily are NOT included, just premium. I'll quote myself:

 

 

Just checked it. Flags are definately not included. The same is true for daily bonus.

 

Premium on the other hand is. just like in WOT. Which is very disappointing since it renders this stat absolutely worthless unless someone was playing exclusively with or without premium.

 

Data taken in my first three games with omaha while running a prem acc:

Game	Avg	=> Credited	Base XP	With Prem	Total after mods	Mods
1	1347	1347	900	1350	2095	flag
2	1429	1511	1007	1511	2267	first win 1.5
3	1630	2032	1356	2034	2034	none

 

 

 

[strangers123]

i stand corrected. Thanks

[Khul]

Shoot... cannot remember where I read that post from a supertester... there will be something like support actions awarded with creds/XP... just wait for it, it will come. 

 

If this is genuinely true, may sweetmeats & rose petals rain on WG's offices in perpetuity.

[Argysh]

 

If this is genuinely true, may sweetmeats & rose petals rain on WG's offices in perpetuity.

 

Such poetry, much wow.

 

But.. I feel the same.

I sure hope that they will do it good. There have been plenty of topics and suggestions ever since CBT (and prbly before)... I wonder which they choose to implement or .... a well, we'll know soon enough. 

[DMA27]

Give bonus for CV that keep spotting ennemy ships and double it for spotting DD

Also a bonus for figthers killing ennemy bombers while guarding a ship other than the CV itself. On many occasions I have them escorting some BB and they did not even noticed that the torps went all over the place ...

 

[Sharana]

I would be more then happy to share parts of my rewards (as CV) with a cruiser that is escorting me (without doing damage himself), same as sharing the rewards with the spotter who is giving the target in WoT + some more rewards for shooting down armed bombers to benefit him ... but I have no idea  if this can be made unexploitable as I wouldn't want to share rewards with afk bot that will simply stay near me.

 

[gbgroger]

How about if all players can give out contributions to other players, within reason? That way in theory good teamworking players get more rewards.

[Bish0ps]

How about if all players can give out contributions to other players, within reason? That way in theory good teamworking players get more rewards.

 

Interresting, but highly subjective.For starters people playing in division would systematically congratulate themselves. Also, hard to judge someone's contribution from the other side of the map.

[Chihayafuru]

You can not "encourage" teamplay by giving out individual rewards. The more you try to account for every individual action, the more you will distort peoples views and distract from what should be the SOLE objective:

 

HELPING YOUR TEAM WIN

 

You should get a little xp for participating, and a lot more for winning. That's how every serious team game with randomized teams does it and how it should be done.

[St4n]

You can not "encourage" teamplay by giving out individual rewards. The more you try to account for every individual action, the more you will distort peoples views and distract from what should be the SOLE objective:

 

HELPING YOUR TEAM WIN

 

You should get a little xp for participating, and a lot more for winning. That's how every serious team game with randomized teams does it and how it should be done.

 

And with that you open the gates for every leecher/afk. Also people will still think "doing damage=winning" and therfore tunnelview on the next engagement, discarding anything that needs more toughts than "who is the enemy? boom boom!"

 

"That's how every serious team game with randomized teams does it and how it should be done."

What are those serious team games with randomized teams? I want to look into their gameplay/reward system.

[Takru]

And with that you open the gates for every leecher/afk. Also people will still think "doing damage=winning" and therfore tunnelview on the next engagement, discarding anything that needs more toughts than "who is the enemy? boom boom!"

 

...which incidently is what is happening already. No brains, just guns.