Citadel - how to hit/pen it? (with BB's against BB's)

[Kreol1q1q]

So, I have been playing this game for a while now, and I've played it in CBT a lot too, and in all this time, I haven't really understood how exactly penetrating the Citadel works. 

I know where it is located and where to aim, under the turrets and under the smoke stacks, but I cannot reliably penetrate it. In some games it seems like my rounds go through it like a hot knife through butter, and I'm able to score multiple citadel hits. In other games, no matter how many rounds I land on target (ie. under the turrets or smoke stacks) i can't quite make it. I do good damage, just not Citadels. 

And I'm taking angling into account here; I'm not surprised when I bounce some rounds off well angled enemy ships, it's that when my shots land perfectly (or so I believe) and nothing happens that I feel stupid.

 

Is penetrating the Citadel resolved by RNG and I just don't have luck sometimes, or am I just not as skilled as I might think and my shots don't actually land on target.

 

Also, how to score Citadel hits with plunging fire? I have no idea where to direct plunging fire to score citadel hits (though I did score some with it, I don't have much of an idea how). Also, plunging fire doesn't seem to do much damage - or is that also more due to my potential faults? 

 

[typhaon]

Almost everything is influenced by RNG, so you cannot be sure with anything, but you can increase your chances.

As you already know it's all about penetrating and that can be quite difficult.

First of all the citadel usually is the best armored part of a ship (for good reason). Second there are many things that can influence the chance of penetration.

You should not underestimate the importance of your range if fire. The thing is, that you must get the best angle for penetration, but to do that, you must try to either shoot at very close range at the armored belt and hope to penetrate it, or you must shoot at the maximum range and hope for the shells, that impact from above, to penetrate the weak armored decks and detonate inside the ship. Most of the time you fight at medium ranges which means that the shells come at an angle that is too flat to penetrate the deck and too steep to penetrate the belt. If the enemy is angled as well, you'll have hard time hitting anything.

But even if you don't land a citadel hit, AP round can inflict serious damage when penetrating. When I first started WoWS is listened to the HE-lovers and yeah, it can be satisfying to light up the enemy and destroy his guns... but from my experience, well aimed AP shells deal way more damage than HE to anything except DDs. THe chance of citadel or ammo hits come on top of that.

I usually use AP on cruisers as well against other cruisers and weak armored BBs.

[Orkhepaj]

Yup total random crap fest. Shitty dmg system will ruin this game.

[Bortasqu]

Aim somewhere in the middle of any ship. Shoot enough times and you will eventually hit.

 

WG E-sports at it's finest!

[cracktrackflak]

Warspite:

 

Game 1: 46 hits inc 3x citadel

 

Game 2: exactly same map, same spawn, same MM - 2 hits out of about 60 fired.

 

Where does aiming skill come into this game, when the RNG is so wildly random?

[Naskoni]

Aim for the base of the turrets of the enemy BB. True story!

[Battledragon]

At short to medium range the best place to aim is to try and hit on the waterline under the turrets.  this is the thickest armour the ship has, but this is because that is where the ammo magazines are.  a hit there, if you have enough pen, can cause detonation and a one shot kill, or at least a citadel and massive damage.  At long range your best bet is to go for the engine rooms (usually middle of the ships, if in doubt, where the funnels are) and aim higher up the side of the ship.. firstly you get less rounds falling short, but mostly because at long range you have sells falling at a high angle so you want to land them on the deck, not hit the side at a steep angle and bounce off into the water.

[Mhtsos]

It seems random with some points in ship just increase the favourable outcome. The turret ammo elevators/depot and the central steam engine rooms are the ones that give the citadel penetrations,but as I said nothing is sure,you have to have a good dice in order to have citadels.

That is as far as I have seen in ~90 games,the same is true for the penetration in angling target/plunging fire where some projectiles just bouncing off,some do min dmg and some normal dmg.

I guess its WG tactic,they love their rng.

[Sander93]

Aim for the waterline underneath the turrets. Boiler room citadel on battleships is pretty hard to hit.

[corpDemon]

just use HEs, seriously. the bloody RNG of both penetration and accuracy makes citadel penning a lottery, one that may cost you your ship. people use HEs for a reason-they ALWAYS work, they are not affected by insane RNG as APs, and by the end of the day, they do more overall damage. i only use APs when i accidentally switch to them by mistake. they are that useless 

[Fruitinator]

I belive that the RNG dispersion is an incentive for BB's to get closer to their targets. Yes, most BB's can fire 20km+ but since the RNG is so.... well.... random i think WG want BB's to follow the CC's/stay near the CC's to promote teamplay.

 

Anyhow, always remember that with higher tiers the more accurate guns you get, wich mean that you will get more hits on target wich mean more citadels.

 

And to only use HE is a waste, HE can be good at long ranges due to fire chance and splash damage (dont know if there is but it atleast feels like it) but at closer ranges ~12km AP is far better due to citadels.

[Sander93]

just use HEs, seriously. the bloody RNG of both penetration and accuracy makes citadel penning a lottery, one that may cost you your ship. people use HEs for a reason-they ALWAYS work, they are not affected by insane RNG as APs, and by the end of the day, they do more overall damage. i only use APs when i accidentally switch to them by mistake. they are that useless 

 

People keep saying this. It's not true. If you would actually take the time to learn how and when to use AP, it does way more damage per shell.  

 

As an example:

[CrniVrag]

 

People keep saying this. It's not true. If you would actually take the time to learn how and when to use AP, it does way more damage per shell.  

 

As an example:

 

This! I love it when some dude gets into a brawl with me and I 2 shot him with AP, while he takes like 15% of my HP with HE... Mad fun

[Mhtsos]

I belive that the RNG dispersion is an incentive for BB's to get closer to their targets. Yes, most BB's can fire 20km+ but since the RNG is so.... well.... random i think WG want BB's to follow the CC's/stay near the CC's to promote teamplay.

 

Anyhow, always remember that with higher tiers the more accurate guns you get, wich mean that you will get more hits on target wich mean more citadels.

 

And to only use HE is a waste, HE can be good at long ranges due to fire chance and splash damage (dont know if there is but it atleast feels like it) but at closer ranges ~12km AP is far better due to citadels.

 

Even in low ranges the rng dispersion is there.pretty much the same as in the upper limit of the gun range.

The projectiles seem to leave the barrels at insane angles.

The only reliable kills due to multi hits/one-shot due to dmg and not citadel I had were in range of <5km (with the Myogi).

BBs with zounds of guns have decent chances up to 10km due to sheer number of shells lobed to the general direction of the enemy.

 

[SilentKnighT79]

AP rounds and aiming are all well and good, but truth is in a vicious fight between multiple threats, with the game the way it is at the moment, HE all the way.

 

Using HE rounds with some quick aiming you can kill rudder, turrets, and engine just fine with fire to boot. You spend time focusing AP shell hits, you'll miss those torps coming, island, other ship or anything else.

 

You live longer if you press shift to set up the shot, and then zoom right out again so you can view your surroundings while keeping the LMB pressed. Trust me.

 

These tails of great shots on citadel etc are on 1 on 1's with distance and time on your side, if you have that it's either the end of the game with few ships remaining, or you've left your team and trying to be rambo which means you'll get one or two kills but ultimately you're team will be the worse off as you weren't with them.

 

Situational awareness using HE rounds and keeping your eye on maneuvering trumps focused firing on citadels, every time! I see these AP shell sniper getting stuck in islands or floating right into torp' spreads every game.

[CrniVrag]

AP rounds and aiming are all well and good, but truth is in a vicious fight between multiple threats, with the game the way it is at the moment, HE all the way.

 

Using HE rounds with some quick aiming you can kill rudder, turrets, and engine just fine with fire to boot. You spend time focusing AP shell hits, you'll miss those torps coming, island, other ship or anything else.

 

You live longer if you press shift to set up the shot, and then zoom right out again so you can view your surroundings while keeping the LMB pressed. Trust me.

 

These tails of great shots on citadel etc are on 1 on 1's with distance and time on your side, if you have that it's either the end of the game with few ships remaining, or you've left your team and trying to be rambo which means you'll get one or two kills but ultimately you're team will be the worse off as you weren't with them.

 

Situational awareness using HE rounds and keeping your eye on maneuvering trumps focused firing on citadels, every time! I see these AP shell sniper getting stuck in islands or floating right into torp' spreads every game.

 

What? You don't need any more time to aim with AP than with HE, you just need to practice a bit. Also with the aim reticle following the locked target you don't need to be constantly in sniper mode.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

This! I love it when some dude gets into a brawl with me and I 2 shot him with AP, while he takes like 15% of my HP with HE... Mad fun

 

Yeah, even down at cruiser levels. I can't number the cruiser that have gone up against me, broadside on, shooting HE while I shot AP. It is so damn easy to kill those big citadel cruisers with AP.

And I have to admit I have a guilty pleasure. I love it when in a BB I turn around, only to find myself looking at another BB shooting at my now exposed citadel. Shells travelling true, citadels hits are a given... BOOM, HE impacts. I laugh when that happens. It's like getting scared, but then finding out it was just a good prank.

[Karaya1]

 

Yeah, even down at cruiser levels. I can't number the cruiser that have gone up against me, broadside on, shooting HE while I shot AP. It is so damn easy to kill those big citadel cruisers with AP.

And I have to admit I have a guilty pleasure. I love it when in a BB I turn around, only to find myself looking at another BB shooting at my now exposed citadel. Shells travelling true, citadels hits are a given... BOOM, HE impacts. I laugh when that happens. It's like getting scared, but then finding out it was just a good prank.

 

So much this.

[Bl4ckh0g]

 

Yeah, even down at cruiser levels. I can't number the cruiser that have gone up against me, broadside on, shooting HE while I shot AP. It is so damn easy to kill those big citadel cruisers with AP.

And I have to admit I have a guilty pleasure. I love it when in a BB I turn around, only to find myself looking at another BB shooting at my now exposed citadel. Shells travelling true, citadels hits are a given... BOOM, HE impacts. I laugh when that happens. It's like getting scared, but then finding out it was just a good prank.

 

I do not understand why would anyone fire HE with a Battleship, like yeah against DDs maybe.

But with the current AP mechanics You will guaranteed to do damage with AP If you hit someone and HE still has a nasty habit of striking the belt armor for a nice 0 damage roll. 

[Seepheerd]

"Well aimed shoot"... laughing my arse... 

As somebody said, just have a look to your projectile when you shoot let's say 2km far, it is a mess, like drunken monkeys sitting in the turrets and playing with barrels.

I was in the army and our AT cannon could hit the wire which towed the the target from around 600m.

This rng thingy a joke...

Just like the burning effect on a DD... 

[Komb_at]

 

First of all the citadel usually is the best armored part of a ship (for good reason).

 

 

Just an hour ago i attacked a carrier with my DDs guns, and out of about 15 hits, got 2 citadel hits. So something wonky with the cital beeing "the best armored part of the ship"

[Edraii]

 

Just an hour ago i attacked a carrier with my DDs guns, and out of about 15 hits, got 2 citadel hits. So something wonky with the cital beeing "the best armored part of the ship"

 

Carriers are an exception, they are not armored.

[Kreol1q1q]

Hmm, so it is RNG based. I was speaking only exclusively from a battleship perspective, shooting AP at cruisers while driving a cruiser is something I always do, and that seems to net citadel hits far more consistently. I would always recommend firing AP against other cruisers in that situation. Which is also one of the reasons I started this topic - I find it far easier to kill other cruisers with a cruiser, rather than with a battleship, when firing AP. While when firing AP shells at cruisers with a battleship you do sometimes get one-shot kills, but more often than not (in my experience) you do less damage than with rapid firing AP cruiser. And yes, i don't see a point in battleships firing HE over AP either (except in the case of DD's)

[Battledragon]

 

Carriers are an exception, they are not armored.

 

Some of the higher tier ones are.

[Galadul]

Hmm, so it is RNG based. I was speaking only exclusively from a battleship perspective, shooting AP at cruisers while driving a cruiser is something I always do, and that seems to net citadel hits far more consistently. I would always recommend firing AP against other cruisers in that situation. Which is also one of the reasons I started this topic - I find it far easier to kill other cruisers with a cruiser, rather than with a battleship, when firing AP. While when firing AP shells at cruisers with a battleship you do sometimes get one-shot kills, but more often than not (in my experience) you do less damage than with rapid firing AP cruiser. And yes, i don't see a point in battleships firing HE over AP either (except in the case of DD's)

 

It is indeed pure RNG. On top of that, the dispersion on BBs, even at short range, is extremely high. Put those together with the higher RoF, and yes you will citadel far more often in cruisers.