Airdropped Torpedoes Are Impossible To Avoid

[Skywagon]

It takes several minutes to execute a single bombing run and it uses up finite resources to do so. Why do you believe you are actually entitled to dodge all of it? And dodging most of the torpedoes is fully doable so long as one retains basic situational awareness and reacts to incoming bombers accordingly. (And by that I mean the actual bombers, not simply taking notice when the alarm starts blaring).

[Nienazwany]

3 km for manual aim? do you have any idea of how long a distance that is?

 

also that isn't exactly how torpedos work, they don't magically get a 3 times arming time.

 

It takes several minutes to execute a single bombing run and it uses up finite resources to do so. Why do you believe you are actually entitled to dodge all of it? And dodging most of the torpedoes is fully doable so long as one retains basic situational awareness and reacts to incoming bombers accordingly. (And by that I mean the actual bombers, not simply taking notice when the alarm starts blaring).

 

I'm such a noob. Can you show me how to dodge a manual torp drop from 1km away? Link to a video would be nice. *sarcasm of*

 

I would like to point out an issue (again) that is eluding most of us. Tier 3-5 battles. Up to tier 4 you have literally no AA. Tier 5 have so little of it, it barely matter. orthi in post #18 have a link illustrating exactly how CV players in those battles exploit manual drop. Even if you see torp airplanes, turn into them, CV can simply wait untill you commit, because he can fly around you (no AA) and manual drop from a side, 1km away. There is nothing you can do, CV can do this faster then you can shift your rudder to neutral not to mention, turn again. And he will do it over and over again without losing a single aircraft. Playing tier 4 CV right now resemble T18 in WoT.

 

I never reached tier 8 or above in CB but at tier 6-7 AA worked pretty well if you grouped up and cruisers got their defensive fire ability. If CV tried to get close with his planes, he would at least lose some of them and that's fair game to me. Still later in a game CVs are like gods, picking off single ships. Even though arm range isn't such an issue in high tier battles because of reasons mention above, 1km is a little too brutal if you ask me. There is simply no way to avoid those.

[Karaya1]

No one ever said CVs wouldnt be in need of some rebalancing, especially at lower tiers where the lack of AA is a serious issue at times. (Stock hulls at least.)

 

However, simply nerfing the manual drop to the ground is not the answer.

[jonasnee]

 

 

I'm such a noob. Can you show me how to dodge a manual torp drop from 1km away? Link to a video would be nice. *sarcasm of*

 

I would like to point out an issue (again) that is eluding most of us. Tier 3-5 battles. Up to tier 4 you have literally no AA. Tier 5 have so little of it, it barely matter. orthi in post #18 have a link illustrating exactly how CV players in those battles exploit manual drop. Even if you see torp airplanes, turn into them, CV can simply wait untill you commit, because he can fly around you (no AA) and manual drop from a side, 1km away. There is nothing you can do, CV can do this faster then you can shift your rudder to neutral not to mention, turn again. And he will do it over and over again without losing a single aircraft. Playing tier 4 CV right now resemble T18 in WoT.

 

I never reached tier 8 or above in CB but at tier 6-7 AA worked pretty well if you grouped up and cruisers got their defensive fire ability. If CV tried to get close with his planes, he would at least lose some of them and that's fair game to me. Still later in a game CVs are like gods, picking off single ships. Even though arm range isn't such an issue in high tier battles because of reasons mention above, 1km is a little too brutal if you ask me. There is simply no way to avoid those.

 

i'm convinced Japanese torps don't even have 250 m targetting range, either that or ships are seriously oversized.

 

CVs are good in lower tiers but if you have an american bogue or langly then they can do serious havoc in the skies, yes the AAA is bad but even bad triple AAA is dangerous if enough of it is concentrated.

 

i am off no disillusion i know CVs are great, but frankly more often than not i see players do little to nothing to stop themselves from dying. frankly i don't remember the last time i was sunk by a CV other than the last time i was sunk in a CV.

[Nienazwany]

No one ever said CVs wouldnt be in need of some rebalancing, especially at lower tiers where the lack of AA is a serious issue at times. (Stock hulls at least.)

 

However, simply nerfing the manual drop to the ground is not the answer.

 

Manual drop is a reason why people complain about CVs. All those "turn into them" or "pay attention" are only viable for auto drops. You can see torp planes, make a turn, torps are droped from some distance away, you can avoid them in a nimble ship. CV counter to that was to tandem his aircraft to attack from both sides so you can only avoid one spread or to communicate with a teammate CV. This is tactic, not a cheesy game mechanic where you just dump all torps 1km away.

 

That being said, i'm all for slow gradual steps. Increase torp arm range to 1.5km and do something about those UFO aircraft, being able to spin around within split second. Right now, you see aircraft spin around you for a few seconds and torps magically appear 1km away. Another idea would be to introduce a fixed attack run (approach?) - distinct straigth flight/dive (possibly not being able to abort) -  for torp planes so you can actually see that they are attacking you - something that would give you a chance to react if you pay attention.

[Karaya1]

Actually, i find autodropped torps so much harder to avoid, at least japanese ones since the spread is much tighter and so weird.

[Serenissima]

If the automatic drop controls were any good, there might be a point. But as it stands, the controls themselves are so gimped and dependent on factors outside the player's control (planes barely respond to commands, after all, and the drop can't be aimed fully) that I can't see much balance issue.

[Karaya1]

If the automatic drop controls were any good, there might be a point. But as it stands, the controls themselves are so gimped and dependent on factors outside the player's control (planes barely respond to commands, after all, and the drop can't be aimed fully) that I can't see much balance issue.

 

Please dont get me wrong, im not saying its OP or whatever, I was just pointing out that the weird spead in which they drop makes them much harder to avoid for me.

[Bragg936]

Manual torp drop is just a kick in the teeth as a BB players you cannont avoid a manual drop from close range no matter how well you play. Which is where the CVs are skilles wonders argument comes from.

 

The  solution

 

• Make torpedo furrows visiable from the intial drop, but not marked untill much closer (the current drop range for instance)
• Increase the torp drop range on TB out to 5-10km (depending on torp type)
• Add minimum arming distance of 3km (yes i know it should be  to 300m but WOWS compresses distance so 3km is knife fight range)
• Add wide spread and tight spread drop options

Why these changes?

 

• Removeing the torpedo alert but makeing torps visiible increase the reliance on player skill and rewards players  paying attention to their surrondings, a BB in a fire fight will still get torped if hes is conectrateing on his gunnery battle but gives him the chance to evade.
• Increaseing the torpedo range has two effects, firstly it changes torpedos from a magic Nuke spell to a stratigic option. Players will be able to fake tropedo runs at range, tropedo from stand off range safe from AAA, carrirs that can maintain their TB force will be a constanst threat to a team. This will force fighters and AA CV/DD to hunt TBs or face constant torpedo runs
• Increaseing Torp range will allow TBs to remain effective at late game when everything turns into a floating flak gun and incease their value compared to dive bombers (kinda like it worked out historicaly)
• Minimum arming range is purly to stop people dropping trops right next to ships in and creating an impossible to dodge magical nuke
• Tight and wide spread should just be an option as standard, going for a group of enemey wide spread and send torps all over the place, lone BB drop a tight group and nail him with 3-4 hits

 

But what about DBs?

With the above changes DBs would then take on the role of bombing specific targets for High damage at the cost of running a flak gauntlet. I would like to see DB damage incease. Really for an attack that can bypass the belt armour and often drops on wooden decked ships (most early ships) they do feck all damage.

 

[jonasnee]

your not suppose to avoid them once they are dropped, your suppose to make it hard for them to drop, you will find that you will always eventually be countered by CVs, why? because that is the role they fill.

[Karaya1]

Manual torp drop is just a kick in the teeth as a BB players you cannont avoid a manual drop from close range no matter how well you play. Which is where the CVs are skilles wonders argument comes from.

 

The  solution

 

• Make torpedo furrows visiable from the intial drop, but not marked untill much closer (the current drop range for instance)
• Increase the torp drop range on TB out to 5-10km (depending on torp type)
• Add minimum arming distance of 3km (yes i know it should be  to 300m but WOWS compresses distance so 3km is knife fight range)
• Add wide spread and tight spread drop options

Why these changes?

 

• Removeing the torpedo alert but makeing torps visiible increase the reliance on player skill and rewards players  paying attention to their surrondings, a BB in a fire fight will still get torped if hes is conectrateing on his gunnery battle but gives him the chance to evade.
• Increaseing the torpedo range has two effects, firstly it changes torpedos from a magic Nuke spell to a stratigic option. Players will be able to fake tropedo runs at range, tropedo from stand off range safe from AAA, carrirs that can maintain their TB force will be a constanst threat to a team. This will force fighters and AA CV/DD to hunt TBs or face constant torpedo runs
• Increaseing Torp range will allow TBs to remain effective at late game when everything turns into a floating flak gun and incease their value compared to dive bombers (kinda like it worked out historicaly)
• Minimum arming range is purly to stop people dropping trops right next to ships in and creating an impossible to dodge magical nuke
• Tight and wide spread should just be an option as standard, going for a group of enemey wide spread and send torps all over the place, lone BB drop a tight group and nail him with 3-4 hits

 

But what about DBs?

With the above changes DBs would then take on the role of bombing specific targets for High damage at the cost of running a flak gauntlet. I would like to see DB damage incease. Really for an attack that can bypass the belt armour and often drops on wooden decked ships (most early ships) they do feck all damage.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/15142-aerroon-playing-wows-highlights/page__pid__416136#entry416136

 

Someone skilled avoiding most torps. And yes i know that CV player is not the very best. But it still showcases that you are not just a target.

[Bragg936]

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/15142-aerroon-playing-wows-highlights/page__pid__416136#entry416136

 

Someone skilled avoiding most torps. And yes i know that CV player is not the very best. But it still showcases that you are not just a target.

 

That video is abit misleading and actually supports some of my proposals such as preventing TBs getting minced by hvy aa at later tiers. To start he is in a Colarado (180m) with the type C hull (52 aa guns) almost none of the attacking TB's or DBs made it to his BB with a full squadron. He launched a fighter whenever possible which causes the torps to spread wide makeing it alot easier to dodge.The carrier was also really bad at torpedo placement and coordinating his squadrons in his intial runs.Its not untill the 8m mark he really gets his crap together and pulls off a decent anvil attack.

 

Important points in that video.

• no manual drops
• poor coordination on the carrier attacking him
• compact battleship with lots of AA
• Fighter dirupting torpedo drops
• First half of the video bulk of the torpedos are from the 3 cruisers not TBs

If he pulled all of that off with any IJN BB, N carlina, Iowa or montana (all 200m-280m length) i would be impressed. But looking at that video  hes stacked the deck for demonstrating torp dodgeing by choseing the smallest mid tier BB with hvy AA.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

Because once you become really good CV player, you will realize that hitting DD is easy and you can kill him with 2 torps, or sometimes even 1. And you will get crapload of experience for that.

 

edit: you are playing USN CV (Langley only), that is a bit different due to slower torps, planes and longer arm distance

 

Can someone link me a place to learn how to torp DDs?

 

Also do any1 know what the arming time/distance is? 

 

Just got manual dropped in a DD by a carrier driver whom (driving ACs and having experience with manual drops) I would SWEAR had to be using hax, if there were such things. 

Edit: I'm talking USN carriers here, with just ONE squadron of torp planes.

 

I take my DD through a narrow channel on North, and he drops the torps IN the channel (carrier USN ranger).

The things were dropped < 500 m from me (less than 1 s of reaction time) and if I tried that in a carrier they would not arm in time, 100% of the time!

Now ofc I wasn't paying attention to the planes due to lots of action going on - but normally that doesnt matter. With DDs I 'm used to juke torps all day long.

 

Now I cant figure out how to upload screenshots to this forum, but i took one af the impact location.

What i imagine is the AC driver predicted from the situation where I might well go and manual dropped accordingly (it was fairly hectic) - but I still say the torps cant arm in time when I try that!!!

 

How the [edited]did he do it?!

[jonasnee]

whenever i attack DD (given i am a japanese CV driver) i simply make him focus on another 1 of my squad and then hit him from the side hes not looking at.

 

it is fairly easy actually.

[Karaya1]

 

Can someone link me a place to learn how to torp DDs?

 

Also do any1 know what the arming time/distance is? 

 

Just got manual dropped in a DD by a carrier driver whom (driving ACs and having experience with manual drops) I would SWEAR had to be using hax, if there were such things. 

Edit: I'm talking USN carriers here, with just ONE squadron of torp planes.

 

I take my DD through a narrow channel on North, and he drops the torps IN the channel (carrier USN ranger).

The things were dropped < 500 m from me (less than 1 s of reaction time) and if I tried that in a carrier they would not arm in time, 100% of the time!

Now ofc I wasn't paying attention to the planes due to lots of action going on - but normally that doesnt matter. With DDs I 'm used to juke torps all day long.

 

Now I cant figure out how to upload screenshots to this forum, but i took one af the impact location.

What i imagine is the AC driver predicted from the situation where I might well go and manual dropped accordingly (it was fairly hectic) - but I still say the torps cant arm in time when I try that!!!

 

How the [edited]did he do it?!

 

USN torp squadrons have their amazing spread, but higher arm distance to compensate.

So it might be true that you couldnt do it, but any IJN CV player could easily do it.

[Mangrey]

what is wrong about airdropped torpedos is manual aim. You can avoid (mostly)when CV not using manual aim. I didn`t know that when i started with CV`s. After i found out how to do it i just cant miss battleships with my TB`s anymore. Yes i always focus BB first, why in the hell would i even try to hunt DD`s. By the way AA is massive dice roll. TB`s and DB`s can fly around CV`s all day. Yes they randomly shot down 1 or 2 planes. 

 

my opinion: remove manual torp aim or increase range for torps to activate from what now looks like 1km to 3km if manual aim is used.

 

You made a CV statment with 9 games in a CV ... 9!!!!!! game !

really come back then you have played tir 8+ then we talk 

 

 

mang

 

 

PS. Ishiro32 have a point CVs punish the lack of teamwork and people who just wander off by them selfs  

[fdsdh1]

torpedos are way overpowered atm

 

especially from carrier planes

 

they drop the torps almost on top of you, there is no way to avoid them, and your BB's flak is nerfed to just a couple of guys throwing rocks at them. Torpedo attacks are meant to be near suicidal undertakings, that is why dive bombing was better. Single aircraft should be being massacred by AA, only massed attack should work.

 

its just ridiculous, a BB may have 8 guns and expect to achieve 2-3 hits per salvo with up to around 3000 dmg each, this is because the rounds spread out loads, most will fall either side of the enemy, and some turrets will just flat out miss completely. Its amazing how little dmg BB guns do sometimes especially HE vs smaller vessels

 

whereas a torp plane will drop its fish and even one hit will take away 1/4-1/3 of my health, two hits and you are looking at up to 1/2 your hp gone. ppl say dodge them, yeah good luck trying to manouver a BB at any rate, especially when torps are being dropped from less than 1 km away

 

bombers are much fairer, as you can actually dodge them with a sharp turn before they drop

 

and then it seems the cv players on my team are always total noobs who only try and get cheap kills instead of giving us all aircover

[DtXpwnz]

 

whereas a torp plane will drop its fish and even one hit will take away 1/4-1/3 of my health, two hits and you are looking at up to 1/2 your hp gone. ppl say dodge them, yeah good luck trying to manouver a BB at any rate, especially when torps are being dropped from less than 1 km away

I stopped reading here... please stop exaggerating.

[Karaya1]

torpedos are way overpowered atm

 

especially from carrier planes

 

they drop the torps almost on top of you, there is no way to avoid them, and your BB's flak is nerfed to just a couple of guys throwing rocks at them. Torpedo attacks are meant to be near suicidal undertakings, that is why dive bombing was better. Single aircraft should be being massacred by AA, only massed attack should work.

 

its just ridiculous, a BB may have 8 guns and expect to achieve 2-3 hits per salvo with up to around 3000 dmg each, this is because the rounds spread out loads, most will fall either side of the enemy, and some turrets will just flat out miss completely. Its amazing how little dmg BB guns do sometimes especially HE vs smaller vessels

 

whereas a torp plane will drop its fish and even one hit will take away 1/4-1/3 of my health, two hits and you are looking at up to 1/2 your hp gone. ppl say dodge them, yeah good luck trying to manouver a BB at any rate, especially when torps are being dropped from less than 1 km away

 

bombers are much fairer, as you can actually dodge them with a sharp turn before they drop

 

and then it seems the cv players on my team are always total noobs who only try and get cheap kills instead of giving us all aircover

 

Actually, Avoiding a manual drop from DBs i much more difficult than avoiding a TB attack. ( One attack at a time).  What BB are you playing that it has such terrible AA ?

[fdsdh1]

 

Actually, Avoiding a manual drop from DBs i much more difficult than avoiding a TB attack. ( One attack at a time).  What BB are you playing that it has such terrible AA ?

 

Kongo (fully upgraded, its not so much the BB itself its the fact that AA should wipe out a single flight, only massed attacks should be effective)

 

but DB usually does less damage so it is fairer. out of the planes onyl a few will actually hit, whereas with a group of torpedos dropped at point blank range you have no chance

 

its also dumb how torpedo planes move in the sky, you don't know if they are after you until they dropped vertically out the sky into your path

 

 

the devs need to play battlestations pacific and literally just copy them, that game was balanced

[fdsdh1]

I stopped reading here... please stop exaggerating.

 

but its true

 

[DtXpwnz]

 

but its true

 

 

1 torp 1/3 of your HP? 2 torps 1/2 your HP? That would mean that torpedo alpha dmg is around 20k+

[Karaya1]

 

Kongo (fully upgraded, its not so much the BB itself its the fact that AA should wipe out a single flight, only massed attacks should be effective)

 

but DB usually does less damage so it is fairer. out of the planes onyl a few will actually hit, whereas with a group of torpedos dropped at point blank range you have no chance

 

its also dumb how torpedo planes move in the sky, you don't know if they are after you until they dropped vertically out the sky into your path

 

 

the devs need to play battlestations pacific and literally just copy them, that game was balanced

 

If you turn before they drop, you can usually kill about half a squad in a Kongo.  And considering the amount of planes especially low tier CVs have, killing a single squadron every attack would be ridiculous.

[Flavio1997]

torpedos are way overpowered atm

 

especially from carrier planes

 

they drop the torps almost on top of you, there is no way to avoid them, and your BB's flak is nerfed to just a couple of guys throwing rocks at them. Torpedo attacks are meant to be near suicidal undertakings, that is why dive bombing was better. Single aircraft should be being massacred by AA, only massed attack should work.

 

its just ridiculous, a BB may have 8 guns and expect to achieve 2-3 hits per salvo with up to around 3000 dmg each, this is because the rounds spread out loads, most will fall either side of the enemy, and some turrets will just flat out miss completely. Its amazing how little dmg BB guns do sometimes especially HE vs smaller vessels

 

whereas a torp plane will drop its fish and even one hit will take away 1/4-1/3 of my health, two hits and you are looking at up to 1/2 your hp gone. ppl say dodge them, yeah good luck trying to manouver a BB at any rate, especially when torps are being dropped from less than 1 km away

 

bombers are much fairer, as you can actually dodge them with a sharp turn before they drop

 

and then it seems the cv players on my team are always total noobs who only try and get cheap kills instead of giving us all aircover

Lol.. at tier 5 torpedo  bombers  have at least 8 secs where you can't  do anything  (4 secs of arming time+4 secs in the "point of non return) and they drop at least at 250meters from you ( but at that tier player with drip it at 300 meters giving you 12 secs to avoid). In my fully upgraded kongo i can wipe out 3tb out of 6 going in a straight line before they can drop, if i start to countreomanouver i can wipe out is entire squadron before the drop.  Then, even if they manage to drop and hit me, every tirps that hit me do 7k of damage, 21k of damage AT BEST for 3 minutes  of reload time is not that much. Here i see a l2p issue, with someone hard tunnelvisioning, if you can see the torps just when you hera the beep beep this is your problem. And, also, if you can't  avoid tbs in a kongo, against biplanes, i wont think what you would do against jet planes in a Yamato, or in the 21kniots us bbs

[fdsdh1]

Lol.. at tier 5 torpedo  bombers  have at least 8 secs where you can't  do anything  (4 secs of arming time+4 secs in the "point of non return) and they drop at least at 250meters from you ( but at that tier player with drip it at 300 meters giving you 12 secs to avoid). In my fully upgraded kongo i can wipe out 3tb out of 6 going in a straight line before they can drop, if i start to countreomanouver i can wipe out is entire squadron before the drop.  Then, even if they manage to drop and hit me, every tirps that hit me do 7k of damage, 21k of damage AT BEST for 3 minutes  of reload time is not that much. Here i see a l2p issue, with someone hard tunnelvisioning, if you can see the torps just when you hera the beep beep this is your problem. And, also, if you can't  avoid tbs in a kongo, against biplanes, i wont think what you would do against jet planes in a Yamato, or in the 21kniots us bbs

 

there are often tier VII carriers in Kongo games

 

anyway the turning circle is very large, sailing towards the planes is always the best option but a lot of the time it is not possible, particularly when your ship is also being attack by other things