Airdropped Torpedoes Are Impossible To Avoid

[Tobiaz1991]

Something seems wrong about airdropped torpedoes.

Many people gave me the advice to turn, but a smart carrier player just redirects his planes to counter any movement you will make.

 

My own experience is that going after carriers even in cruisers is impossible.

If he knows what he is doing he is just going to sink you with impossible to avoid airdropped torpedoes.

Even in fast ships like the tier 4-5 US cruisers.

 

Here are my examples:

Start at 29:00.

 

 

Next example:

Start at about 2:35.

 

Both times is a high tier near full health person reduced to almost nothing or nearly half its health.

Notice that the second example is a cruiser and isn't that the class that is suppose to counter airplanes and protect battleships from them?

Maybe they are just terrible players but still I don't see what they could have done differently?

 

Why does nobody think this is wrong? Hell this is almost worse than WOT arty, its either do everything you can and live with 5% health.

Or do nothing and die, at least in wot you can hide and not loose 80%+ of your health.

 

Curious what you guys think.

[Sharana]

We commented on the first video - it's purely North Carolina's fail when attacked by 2 CVs. He was simply tunnelvisioned in that Atago, nothing else.

About the 2nd video - it shows how are you supposed to maneuver with cruiser avoiding the torpedoes and how to use his repairs effectively, but you are simply not supposed to avoid them all. So after the repair Zao was damaged for 13 000 hp by strike CV and it will wasted 5 minutes attack to deal 13k damage. 13 000 hp is not "reduced to almost nothing". And btw that Zao could focus the AA to take out more planes.

[Deamon93]

I was in Wyoming and two Langleys kept focusing on me. Out of 24 torpedoes fired only a single one hit me. Granted it's relatively easy to avoid two squadrons from two different players but still it's possible, unless the CV player is really good.

[Vaderan]

If the Zao would have focused her fire on a single squadron, the other squads wouldn´t have suffered from the barrage skill of the cruiser, which would have lead to more narrow torpedo spreads and more damage to the cruiser. Spreading the barrage through his AAA-bubble was the right choice to do so, i´d say.

[celticdude]

now i play carriers and mostly what you can do as a carrier player is you have the automatic aim from the computer or you can drop you torps manually, and ill explain both;

the automatic one release the torpedoes in a cone spread quite far from the target and the torps well have a fair distance between them and one of these strikes is easy to avoid even in japanese battleships if you pay attention. just turn into the torpedo planes even before they drop. ofcourse one tactic would be if you have 2 squadrons of torpedo planes you can have them come from 2 different directiond pretty much garanteeing you 1 or 2 hits. 

how ever manual drop is much much more effective if you master it. by pressing ALT you get an indicator of were your torps will drop and its a much tighter spread then the automatic one and its a straight line not a cone. ofcourse now you have to calculate the leed of your torps yourself depending on the targets speed. and you cant really direct 2 squadrons to do this in a cross fire. you can how ever have 2 squadrons fly on top of each other and have them both fire there torps same time same field of fire. its a skill to master but yeah when you do its pretty much impossible to miss. and 2 to 5 hits is garanteed depending on US or IJN.

best thing to do really is for cruisers to activate that ability to make them less accurate and scare the bejeezus out of the pilots making them drop earlier then aimed. or hope you have an escort carrier on your team but atm thats not rewarding enough so. destroyers and cruisers fair pretty well agaist these attacks. battleships not so much. so yeah torping a full healt north carolina with multiple squadrons is to be expected.

all i can give you as advice is try and play carriers yourself and see how other people try to avoid your attacks and try and learn from that.

[SilentKnighT79]

Is everyone forgetting that good AA makes pilots panic and their drop is drastically reduced. 

 

I play C.V's and I certainly don't see other C.v's get their mark every time like myself. A good DD nearby and upgraded AA on your BB and you're good to go.

 

I can't help but wonder if this is another please nerf cry because you're splitting from the pack trying to solo to grind your points and chasing kills, and the only thing that stops you is a torp hit.

 

This game is rock paper scissors. If you don't have scissors with you, that BB rock of yours will get wrapped.

want to live get help, don't cry. 

 

As for cruisers, no sorry no, a good cruiser constantly moving and turning, again with AA and even better a spotter plane and again you're good to go!

 

P.S. I've watched the last video, why is he sailing about on his own, away from the pack. Why, if it's a carrier tier 5. You stick together and work your way to the carrier. 

 

[Dzsetajsan]

There are is one way to outmanouver torp drops and it works FINE. Its simpe

Step one Identefy if you are targeted.

Step two start DELAYING the drop by PREangling your ship in the way he will have least hit. The cv wants results it has to hit you fulsh side on getting hit by 1topr / attackwave is FINE

If you execute the dance well enough your SHIP AA with priority targets set will disturb the drop already killing and forcing wider spreads and since you are alredy delaying primary drops you have time to get fighters or delay yecond drop aswell with thinning the hitzone with preturning another way if the primary first topring squad is weakened enough.

 

Never forget SHIP aa above t7 is stupidly op if you go near 7kms to a random non DD ship you about to lose a metric tonns of planes if you don't act quickly. CVs Know that so they will usually prematurely try an early attack .

If you play Ijpn cvs you can enchance cv self aa on strike setups and have the lolvtf advanced fire training wirtually enchanting ship aa range to about 10 kms effective USN cannot drop as they die that range ijn can hget 1-2 low powered drops off which are outmanuverable

If you play USN cvs its better to put the enchantmets to the fighters on balanced stock setups your ship and 1 squad can rape about 40 planes before going down had that multiple times it works And if you cannot execute a good game while doing that CV isn't the class for you.

Last note I usually avoid torp drops to the very end but only if I can start step one mentioned above at about 20kms away from the ship delaying movement to after that range will put you in a wrold of hurt.

 

[GTRaPToR]

What's wrong here? On the first clip the first two set of torps were actually badly dropped, but the North Carolina was tunnelvisioning and didn't do anything to counteract. Also the other ship next to her denied some manouverability.

Second clip just shows what to do when you're getting focused. I think Xao did pretty well there. Why wouldn't you get hit if there's 3 squadrons of trops and few bombs coming for you?

 

Do you also whine over an enemy ship hitting you when she gives you 5+ salvos?

[Paranoiyd]

 

I find you "Pro", L2P, "It’s all your own fault" guys disgusting.. When there is obviously a problem with the CV torp drop mechanism you don’t learn to walk on a broken leg, you get if fixed... And when a Torp squad drops them from 1Km distance over the surface, 1km to your gigantic BB, you can put your hands behind your head and enjoy the full hit...

Have you EVER seen a WW2 movie with naval battles? Ever played a game with torpedoing in it? Torpedoing is not throwing stones at a lame dog with bound feet chained to a pole.... It is basically an art form.... Just for the fun of it, try to watch some of the archive footage of WW2 Jap Torp Squads... 

It does not have to be a simulator of accurate calculations and complicated manoeuvres... But ffs, don’t let someone just fly up to you, drop a butt load of torps however, whenever and wherever and fly away into the sunset… It is not about the players "skills" it’s about a funny looking and strangely working mechanism… Everyone can learn to exploit stuff, that’s why there is a Beta, to fix it and make it more balanced and fancy looking… 

 

[GTRaPToR]

I find you "Pro", L2P, "It’s all your own fault" guys disgusting.. When there is obviously a problem with the CV torp drop mechanism you don’t learn to walk on a broken leg, you get if fixed... And when a Torp squad drops them from 1Km distance over the surface, 1km to your gigantic BB, you can put your hands behind your head and enjoy the full hit...

Have you EVER seen a WW2 movie with naval battles? Ever played a game with torpedoing in it? Torpedoing is not throwing stones at a lame dog with bound feet chained to a pole.... It is basically an art form.... Just for the fun of it, try to watch some of the archive footage of WW2 Jap Torp Squads... 

It does not have to be a simulator of accurate calculations and complicated manoeuvres... But ffs, don’t let someone just fly up to you, drop a butt load of torps however, whenever and wherever and fly away into the sunset… It is not about the players "skills" it’s about a funny looking and strangely working mechanism… Everyone can learn to exploit stuff, that’s why there is a Beta, to fix it and make it more balanced and fancy looking… 

 

So what's wrong with it?

[GrumpyWorm]

I find you "Pro", L2P, "It’s all your own fault" guys disgusting.. When there is obviously a problem with the CV torp drop mechanism you don’t learn to walk on a broken leg, you get if fixed... And when a Torp squad drops them from 1Km distance over the surface, 1km to your gigantic BB, you can put your hands behind your head and enjoy the full hit...

Have you EVER seen a WW2 movie with naval battles? Ever played a game with torpedoing in it? Torpedoing is not throwing stones at a lame dog with bound feet chained to a pole.... It is basically an art form.... Just for the fun of it, try to watch some of the archive footage of WW2 Jap Torp Squads... 

It does not have to be a simulator of accurate calculations and complicated manoeuvres... But ffs, don’t let someone just fly up to you, drop a butt load of torps however, whenever and wherever and fly away into the sunset… It is not about the players "skills" it’s about a funny looking and strangely working mechanism… Everyone can learn to exploit stuff, that’s why there is a Beta, to fix it and make it more balanced and fancy looking… 

 

 

Except that there is nothing broken ( maybe needs fine tuning there and here but..) 

Reading your feedback im not sure you had played same game as i did last night.

 

Dont try to evade torps once they are in water... You will fail. Do it 45 secs before  by being aware that TB are coming after you . It is easy as that

 

[Tobiaz1991]

Thanks for all the replies.

What I can gather is that this is probably mostly a lower tier focused problem.

 

I myself only play cruisers, heck I barely play a week. Up to tier 5 on cruisers and dont bother the other classes, tried bbs but they are just so slow (at tier 3 that is)

But tier 3-4 JIN and tier 4-5 US cruisers are so much fun, fast, mobile a rate of fire that will take down a bb.

But even playing my US cruisers and protecting our bb's its nearly impossible to shoot more than one plane down.

Even with full AA layout on my Omaha and using plane and having the extra AA skills.

 

And I hear many people talk about higher tiers. Yeah couldnt really tell because its not even a month in open beta.

At lower tiers however things are just wrong. I once tried chasing down a carrier in my cruiser, the Omaha.

He killed me with repeated torps, I tried everything, 3 torps and 1 dive bomb was all it took to kill me from full health...

 

So even if this is mostly a lower tier issue, it needs to be fixed, I never go after carriers anymore because if focused you die.

There is simply no way in avoiding every torp and it takes 3 to take 95% of your health off?

How is that balanced? Thats not even talking about how bad it must be for battleshipcaptains?

 

(on a sidenote I might be a new player but I do read up on everything I can, learn new tactics etc. from 123 battles I have 60% winratio so Im not bad, it just annoys me that these low tiers carriers are impossible to defend against, even with US cruisers, AA skills and AA layout?)

[Karaya1]

WTF ? In a Hosho and even Zuihos i kept losing planes to Omahas if i ever dared to go near them and not attack them themselfes. They are pretty good AA ships for their tier, especially with that plane they have. VERY annoying to a CV captain. Not sure what you are doing wrong there, but if that CV focuses you with a full squad he will get a couple torpedoes launched and you might get hit by one if its a lucky one.

[Mangrey]

WTF ? In a Hosho and even Zuihos i kept losing planes to Omahas if i ever dared to go near them and not attack them themselfes. They are pretty good AA ships for their tier, especially with that plane they have. VERY annoying to a CV captain. Not sure what you are doing wrong there, but if that CV focuses you with a full squad he will get a couple torpedoes launched and you might get hit by one if its a lucky one.

 

lol no ... .... it is verry easy for a good CV player to kill off ships in tir 4-5, no matter the ship  New people offen dont know how to avoide Torps, 

 

 

mang

[Karaya1]

 

lol no ... .... it is verry easy for a good CV player to kill off ships in tir 4-5, no matter the ship  New people offen dont know how to avoide Torps, 

 

 

mang

 

I know that of course, i was replying to the perceived lack of AA capability on an Omaha, as well as him saying that there is nothing he could do in an Omaha. That is simply not true. An Omaha can defend adequately even against being focused if done by an experienced player.

 

Also if I may quite myself : " In a Hosho and even Zuihos i kept losing planes to Omahas if i ever dared to go near them and not attack them themselfes. 

Next time please read more carefully before quoting.

[Eshaede]

was playing my CVs yesterday, and my defence against BBs, being "out of sight, out of mind" failed, when i was left unescorted and got smashed, it happens

 

funnily enough i was also playing my BBs and when my defence of "no AAA" fell through due to people dying, i got torp'd

 

once people A) start working together , and B) get higher up tech tree to get the more AAA heavy ships this will cease to be a problem

 

PEBKAC, and TIME will fix this, not tweaks

[Hauptbahnhof]

Something seems wrong about airdropped torpedoes.

Many people gave me the advice to turn, but a smart carrier player just redirects his planes to counter any movement you will make.

 

Next example:

Start at about 2:35.

 

Curious what you guys think.

 

I think it looks like that Zao took about 30% of it's hitpoints in damage, despite the CV being pretty lucky with torp hits being able to land hits despite AA ability, and shot down 13 airplanes out of the 24 bombers in that airstrike...

 

So if the enemy full strike CV keeps only bombing him for the rest of the game, we can extrapolate that the CV will need 3 more strikes and will lose 52 airplanes shot down ( assuming there is no fighters or any other ship AA for backup, in which case more will be lost ). That means the CV don't have enough airplanes anymore to fill all squadrons and is operating at reduced capacity after trying to take out one single cruiser that was sailing alone ( if there is much time left of the game after having time to do 4 strikes )...

 

I honestly can't see what part of this you have a problem with? It seems fine if you ask me, especially when we take into account that Japanese AA is weaker then US AA and the cruiser was totally alone, with no air cover.

 

The Zao has an AA rating of 50. Compare that with Des Moines (76), Iowa (84) or Midway (89), and you can imagine how fast the Airplanes would melt away if they got in range of these ships.

[orthi]

 

Except that there is nothing broken ( maybe needs fine tuning there and here but..) 

Reading your feedback im not sure you had played same game as i did last night.

 

Dont try to evade torps once they are in water... You will fail. Do it 45 secs before  by being aware that TB are coming after you . It is easy as that

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/39473-the-exploit-of-manual-torpedo-drops-solution/#topmost

 

What is written here pretty much sums up what the game feels for me now. Maybe we really are playing a different game after all. I do not like to play tier VI and VII anymore (I am on Aoba and Pensacola) because of the here described mechanic.

 

Manual drop is just broken. While I would not agree with their OP that it is necessarily an exploit, it is annoying as hell. Even with paying attention and turning into the enemy torpedo bombers you will just get outcircled in seconds and catch a full broadside. Triple A is useless, at least in Tier VI and VII you may get one plane down, there are still ample of planes left to melt your face. And that is being in a CA/CL.

 

The problem gets amplified, when you face a two tier higher CV without one of your own, or the quite common 2v1 in carries. And by tier VIII most carrier drivers have understood how to abuse the hell out of the manual drop system.

 

I could not get myself to play more than a couple of games today, because of this.

 

So maybe all the people are wrong, maybe you should not berate your customers like you sometimes do. It is kind of offputting as well. When concern is voiced and you do away with it, like you do, I am sorry, that is plain bad style.

 

Maybe things will be different at tier VIII with AAA more potent, but atm I doubt I will ever get there.

 

Edit: For you not wanting to click the link. Basically what is said, is that you cannot turn into the enemy tb's like Vuk is suggesting, because any good CV Driver will have them around you shorter than your average rudder shift time in anything bigger than a DD,

[Gerudan]

Why exactly should people be able to dodge air dropped torpedos in the first place? A carrier can't avoid shells flying at him completely, regardless of how good he is. 

 

If it would be easy to avoid plane attacks, CVs would become useless and there are enough things you can do. Turning will still delay the drop and the planes have to fly right past your AAA and so on. 

 

If anything has to be done that an overhaul of the MM and changes to the fighters, so we get actual fights in the air between both nations that aren't predetermined right from the start. 

[Ra97oR]

I wonder have anyone considered the map presence and map control of a CV. Yes, the game only rewards damage and kills at the moment but a well timed CV attack can easily change the tide of an engagement without directly dealing any damage even. No other ship class can do this.

 

Forcing evasive actions, stopping the enemy fighting back, forcing a turn to expose their citadel to your friendly guns, excellent map scouting... Nothing comes close at the moment, yet the current CV have unparalleled damage output too, even against actively evading ships.

 

DD torps are easily dodged if you evade, BB shells can be dodged easily in DD/CL/CA and angled against in a BB, CA/CL shells can be dodge the same way. Then why should CV get guaranteed damage, higher than most BB salvo even; when you get all other abilities that is unmatched by other class already.

 

I wish that CV are rewarded by the game performing "utility" actions and the insta nuke ability taken away. CV intervention when you are in a tight engagement can be game changing enough. An actively evading ship shouldn't just eat torps launched at 500m away without an attack run and planes that turns like flies, yet the torps should be still relatively lethal and not something you want to eat.

[ReverendFlashback]

Reward for utility actions, how you describe it, actually sounds like you want xp for missing your target.

So...nope, probably won't happen.

[Ishiro32]

Guys, it's easy. Just turn into torps and evade!

 

But seriously speaking, as a DD if you just spin around, you are pretty much the same target as going straight. 

 

[Karaya1]

Guys, it's easy. Just turn into torps and evade!

 

 

But seriously speaking, as a DD if you just spin around, you are pretty much the same target as going straight. 

 

 

That guy actually made a mistake. Halfway through, you know since its a DD it can easily do this, he could have reversed his turn.

 

Ultimately though, since its a lone minekaze he has no hope of shooting them down, so you can try as long as you want.

[Ishiro32]

That's why I said that spinning DD is the same as the one going straight. DD can reverse speed as much as they want.

If he was dodging propery I would have probably ignored him.

[specialkha]

That's why I said that spinning DD is the same as the one going straight. DD can reverse speed as much as they want.

If he was dodging propery I would have probably ignored him.

 

The fact that as the CV you consider a DD as a potential target is broken.