CV fear reasons

[VonVolks]

I think that the current torpedo and CV terror is due to good CV players playing low router games,  where not only do rookies not know tactics and torp avoidance but that also most ships have rubbish or zero AA 

 

Once the tiers get to 5+ things should calm down.... 

 

I hope! 

[OVanBruce]

I think that the current torpedo and CV terror is due to good CV players playing low router games,  where not only do rookies not know tactics and torp avoidance but that also most ships have rubbish or zero AA 

 

Once the tiers get to 5+ things should calm down.... 

 

I hope! 

 

Man, did you really, like, read the most active thread in this forum in some weeks?

[TKFF]

 

Once the tiers get to 5+ things should calm down.... 

 

 

Well,they don't. Read this topic to get an idea why CV's are so hated even at higher tiers. 

[Tugnut]

 

Well,they don't. Read this topic to get an idea why CV's are so hated even at higher tiers. 

 

I don't hate them playing them nor playing against them.

[Elderdaddy]

topic nr 27 about CV being op

 

 

gj

so this

and this

 

[specialkha]

topic nr 27 about CV being op

 

 

gj

 

 

 

 

You should grind another line of ships to show you can achieve the same "score" with them.

[cuddlesRO]

No matter how good you are you can't escape a CV with manual launch wanting to kill you and i think that should be the reason. we're not even talking about players that "sail in straight line" that can be dealt with even with automatic aim , we're talking about experience beta/alpha testers and people that have a clue. 

 

I even said it in cbt when the arming time is just too low to even escape from a manual set torp. People have an illusion only experienced CV players know how to manually  aim.  I LoLed.

 

Yes , CV's are op. case closed.

[TKFF]

 

I don't hate them playing them nor playing against them.

 

Neither do I, but you have probably seen tons of "CV's OP,Torps OP" posts yourself on the forum lately.

[Ragoutrabbit]

I think that the current torpedo and CV terror is due to good CV players playing low router games,  where not only do rookies not know tactics and torp avoidance but that also most ships have rubbish or zero AA 

 

Once the tiers get to 5+ things should calm down.... 

 

I hope! 

 

I'am at tier 6 now and it's just getting worse instead of better, my experience is a CV wants you dead your dead only DD really have nothing to fear against them.

[VonVolks]

My DDs fear CV a lot. 8)

 

This thread isn't saying they are op. I was hoping I might suggest a reason why people THINK they are op

[Deckeru_Maiku]

topic nr 27 about CV being op

 

 

gj

so this

 

 

 

Pure genius...

Looks like the Sims is doing it's best to really catch as many torpedoes as possible of the first spread...

 

Could have been me steering that Sims...

[captainlafay]

Once the tiers get to 5+ things should calm down.... 

 

....until you're trying to play your poor little t7 vessel and get matched up 1v1 against t10 carriers....lovely....T7 is where the rape really starts, low tiers are a walk in the park in comparison.

 

No matter how good you are you can't escape a CV with manual launch wanting to kill you and i think that should be the reason. we're not even talking about players that "sail in straight line" that can be dealt with even with automatic aim , we're talking about experience beta/alpha testers and people that have a clue. 

 

I even said it in cbt when the arming time is just too low to even escape from a manual set torp. People have an illusion only experienced CV players know how to manually  aim.  I LoLed.

 

Yes , CV's are op. case closed.

 

QFT, it's impossible to escape 3 torp squadrons, if the CV player knows what he's doing. Nerfing AA into oblivion was a big mistake, as even AA heavy CA's barely manage to scratch planes now.

[Edraii]

Why the heck SHOULD you be able to "escape" from 3 torpedo squadrons? I think the issue here is that you think you should be able to, not that you can't.

[captainlafay]

Why the heck SHOULD you be able to "escape" from 3 torpedo squadrons? I think the issue here is that you think you should be able to, not that you can't.

 

Why the heck SHOULD every other class be a free kill for any semi decent CV captain? 

[Spellfire40]

Well im at T7 in the IJN line atm i do get around 40 airkills atm but shiplills? every time i atack either and CA uses his ability or a ca lanced figter messes up the spread. so muchh about op CV ,-)

 

cya

 

Spellfire40

[Edraii]

 

Why the heck SHOULD every other class be a free kill for any semi decent CV captain? 

 

You need more than 3 japanese squads to kill any BB of an equivelent tier and at least two US ones if you can garantue good hits, they only get that in the higher tiers. CA's have heavy AA defense past early tiers and DD's need excessive firepower to kill. I don't see the problem here. 1 and 3 gets really hard when there is a CA covering, killing grouped CA's is nigh impossible.

 

Learn to group up for better AA cover, after that we can talk about how OP CV's may or may not be.

[Elendor]

QFT, it's impossible to escape 3 torp squadrons, if the CV player knows what he's doing. Nerfing AA into oblivion was a big mistake, as even AA heavy CA's barely manage to scratch planes now.

 

Why the heck SHOULD every other class be a free kill for any semi decent CV captain? 

 

AA got nerfed into oblivion? What? Since when? Just did another game with 40+ airplanes shot down today, and well each time there is an enemy CV and i'm on CAs I'm rarely under 15-20 planes on the killcount.

It's really not that hard to counter CVs once cruisers start getting some AA capabilities, and teams with such cruisers that don't manage it should only blame themselves.

 

Is it impossible to escape 3 torp squadrons? Because I do it all the time. Is it possible to escape 3 torp squadrons without a single hit? Well, that's getting hard, but if they are IJN torp squadrons, with that spread you can most certainly escape with 1-2 hits on your BB which leaves you quite fine. No USN Carrier has 3 torp squadrons, so...

Do you expect to escape this situation without a single hit? Why the heck SHOULD you? When an enemy ship fires 3 full salvos at you, do you expect to not get hit by any shell?

 

My impressions really aren't that any class is a guaranteed free kill. And certainly not without some serious aircraft management. I know that when I'm playing against CVs I never ever feel like I'm a free kill, no matter what class I play.

In comparison, any time I get into a BB I do feel that most cruisers I find are free kills. So maybe in the end, it's just what some players are, free kills, and CVs happen to be the class that has the best ability to pick free kills, due to the mobility of their strike force. If there is a free kill on the other side of the map, in most ships you can't get there, but a plane squadron will.

 

From experience, as a CV you can usually spot those free kills before you even engage them, just by their apparent lack of awareness. You fly by on their broadside, and you just can tell. No reaction, staying in full broadside... oh, that looks like a free kill! I want some of it. Sometimes they are BBs, sometimes they are CAs, sometimes they are DDs... They would be free kills in a CV too. The fact that these people are free kills is not related in any way to the class they play.

 

I really find that people are so lazy and whiny these days, not just here but in games in general. I'm usually fine with the way things are, and believe that the key is in practicing and finding counters and logical solutions. When I fail, and it happens to me too, I work out why and try to improve on that. But most people don't, it seems. They fail, and all they can do is whine and complain that this or that is too OP and needs to be nerfed. I find this attitude annoying.

 

If things are severely unbalanced I usually can tell, and here I just don't feel like they are. CVs aren't unbalanced per say. Sometimes the matchmaking isn't in your favor, it happens. But some other times it will drastically be in your favor. It evens itself out.

So if you feel like you're a free kill, maybe that's just what you are. Instead of complaining about it, you should probably work on it.

[Ragoutrabbit]

 

AA got nerfed into oblivion? What? Since when? Just did another game with 40+ airplanes shot down today, and well each time there is an enemy CV and i'm on CAs I'm rarely under 15-20 planes on the killcount.

It's really not that hard to counter CVs once cruisers start getting some AA capabilities, and teams with such cruisers that don't manage it should only blame themselves.

 

Is it impossible to escape 3 torp squadrons? Because I do it all the time. Is it possible to escape 3 torp squadrons without a single hit? Well, that's getting hard, but if they are IJN torp squadrons, with that spread you can most certainly escape with 1-2 hits on your BB which leaves you quite fine. No USN Carrier has 3 torp squadrons, so...

Do you expect to escape this situation without a single hit? Why the heck SHOULD you? When an enemy ship fires 3 full salvos at you, do you expect to not get hit by any shell?

 

My impressions really aren't that any class is a guaranteed free kill. And certainly not without some serious aircraft management. I know that when I'm playing against CVs I never ever feel like I'm a free kill, no matter what class I play.

In comparison, any time I get into a BB I do feel that most cruisers I find are free kills. So maybe in the end, it's just what some players are, free kills, and CVs happen to be the class that has the best ability to pick free kills, due to the mobility of their strike force. If there is a free kill on the other side of the map, in most ships you can't get there, but a plane squadron will.

 

From experience, as a CV you can usually spot those free kills before you even engage them, just by their apparent lack of awareness. You fly by on their broadside, and you just can tell. No reaction, staying in full broadside... oh, that looks like a free kill! I want some of it. Sometimes they are BBs, sometimes they are CAs, sometimes they are DDs... They would be free kills in a CV too. The fact that these people are free kills is not related in any way to the class they play.

 

I really find that people are so lazy and whiny these days, not just here but in games in general. I'm usually fine with the way things are, and believe that the key is in practicing and finding counters and logical solutions. When I fail, and it happens to me too, I work out why and try to improve on that. But most people don't, it seems. They fail, and all they can do is whine and complain that this or that is too OP and needs to be nerfed. I find this attitude annoying.

 

If things are severely unbalanced I usually can tell, and here I just don't feel like they are. CVs aren't unbalanced per say. Sometimes the matchmaking isn't in your favor, it happens. But some other times it will drastically be in your favor. It evens itself out.

So if you feel like you're a free kill, maybe that's just what you are. Instead of complaining about it, you should probably work on it.

 

Another player massively over performing in a CV making excuses.

[Galadul]

 

Another player massively over performing in a CV making excuses.

 

Yep nothing new there. 

[Elendor]

 

Another player massively over performing in a CV making excuses.

 

Oh yeah, i'm so massively over-performing in my CVs. 

 

Let's see, 54% win overall.

54.4% on BBs, 49.3% on CAs, 58.7% on DDs, 52.4% on CVs.

 

Oh my goodness you're right, I'm so over-performing in CVs. Damn, it's so overwhelming. What an on-point analysis on your part.

 

The real people constantly making excuses are those incapable of working on the problems they face, choosing instead to always, always just complain and call for nerfs all over the place. Even only one or two weeks into the game, they think they know it all, that they can't improve anymore, and just complain that it's OP or broken instead of trying.

 

These people usually do not even try CVs.

First, they would improve if they did, because they would become more familiar with the mechanisms of the class, which is always helpful.

Second, they could not make excuses anymore. Because it simply would show that they do not perform particularly better in these that they would in any other class of ships.

[specialkha]

 

Oh yeah, i'm so massively over-performing in my CVs. 

 

Let's see, 54% win overall.

54.4% on BBs, 49.3% on CAs, 58.7% on DDs, 52.4% on CVs.

 

Oh my goodness you're right, I'm so over-performing in CVs. Damn, it's so overwhelming. What an on-point analysis on your part.

 

The real people constantly making excuses are those incapable of working on the problems they face, choosing instead to always, always just complain and call for nerfs all over the place. Even only one or two weeks into the game, they think they know it all, that they can't improve anymore, and just complain that it's OP or broken instead of trying.

 

These people usually do not even try CVs.

First, they would improve if they did, because they would become more familiar with the mechanisms of the class, which is always helpful.

Second, they could not make excuses anymore. Because it simply would show that they do not perform particularly better in these that they would in any other class of ships.

 

Mmh, you still have more average xp with CVs than with any others class.

[airmac1]

 

Mmh, you still have more average xp with CVs than with any others class.

 

hmmmm, always looking for something to use as an excuse?

[specialkha]

 

hmmmm, always looking for something to use as an excuse?

 

Sory, I use facts as excuse

[Elendor]

 

Mmh, you still have more average xp with CVs than with any others class.

 

And there are two very, very simple explanations for that, which would apply to the stats of ANY players:

 

1. When playing CVs, you do tend to stay longer into the game. If protecting yourself from an enemy CV's attack run.

Unlike DDs and CAs in particular, whose games can sometimes end up early and abruptly.

 

2. You do not have tier I, tier II, tier III CVs. Lower tier, usually with much lower average xp, which will influence the average xp of other classes.

The higher tier you get, the more xp you get. But on CVs, you start at tier IV, where the average xp starts to get much better.

CAs start at tier I (Erie, Chikuma, St Louis, Tenryu... ships that will usually lower the average xp of your class, even if you were somewhat successful with them), DDs start at tier II (Umikaze, Sampson, Wickes, Wakatake...), BBs start at tier III (the Kawachi and the South Carolina, both known for performing so well!).

 

So it's really logical. You could do more advanced statistics, compare average xp per class per tiers, and then they would be in the same range.

Notice how, once you get to similar tiers you do get much more comparable average xp.

 

Then it's affected by how individual ships are, some aren't too good (Kuma, Furutaka, really aren't ships I enjoy), some are above average. Then somehow with some ships things just go very well. That's the random part in statistics.

The xp on my Arkansas is similar to the xp I had on the Langley and Bogue. I do slightly less on the Wyomming, but clearly do more on the New York. The xp i'm doing on my Mutsuki is in a similar range than the xp on my Independence.

And I find that tier V Nicholas fits my playstyle so well, that the xp on that ship is on par with my Independance (tier VI), and not that far off from the Ranger (tier VII)!

 

You can't just take a few numbers and draw conclusions, you need to think things through and take all the factors into account. The various tiers have a huge impact on the xp / game. The time spent per battle is also an important factor.

When you see some really strong players with 65% - 75%+ wins on CVs, and really high numbers in average xp, you need to remember that these players are amazing and experienced players, who focused only one line of ships, and got to very high tiers early.

Chances are, they would perform extremely well with another class at a similar tier as well. In fact these players often are in divisions with other great players, who focused on BBs or CAs and who do have amazing stats in these classes.

You can't compare the average xp that a high tier CV player will have, heavily influenced by the tier 8-9-10 CVs, with the average xp they have on the few games they played on tier 1-2 CAs and tier 3 BBs.

Neither can you assess the balance of a class of ships based on the performances of such players, especially that early after the wipe.

[specialkha]

 

And there are two very, very simple explanations for that, which would apply to the stats of ANY players:

 

1. When playing CVs, you do tend to stay longer into the game. If protecting yourself from an enemy CV's attack run.

Unlike DDs and CAs in particular, whose games can sometimes end up early and abruptly.

 

2. You do not have tier I, tier II, tier III CVs. Lower tier, usually with much lower average xp, which will influence the average xp of other classes.

The higher tier you get, the more xp you get. But on CVs, you start at tier IV, where the average xp starts to get much better.

CAs start at tier I (Erie, Chikuma, St Louis, Tenryu... ships that will usually lower the average xp of your class, even if you were somewhat successful with them), DDs start at tier II (Umikaze, Sampson, Wickes, Wakatake...), BBs start at tier III (the Kawachi and the South Carolina, both known for performing so well!).

 

So it's really logical. You could do more advanced statistics, compare average xp per class per tiers, and then they would be in the same range.

Notice how, once you get to similar tiers you do get much more comparable average xp.

 

Then it's affected by how individual ships are, some aren't too good (Kuma, Furutaka, really aren't ships I enjoy), some are above average. Then somehow with some ships things just go very well. That's the random part in statistics.

The xp on my Arkansas is similar to the xp I had on the Langley and Bogue. I do slightly less on the Wyomming, but clearly do more on the New York. The xp i'm doing on my Mutsuki is in a similar range than the xp on my Independence.

And I find that tier V Nicholas fits my playstyle so well, that the xp on that ship is on par with my Independance (tier VI), and not that far off from the Ranger (tier VII)!

 

You can't just take a few numbers and draw conclusions, you need to think things through and take all the factors into account. The various tiers have a huge impact on the xp / game. The time spent per battle is also an important factor.

When you see some really strong players with 65% - 75%+ wins on CVs, and really high numbers in average xp, you need to remember that these players are amazing and experienced players, who focused only one line of ships, and got to very high tiers early.

Chances are, they would perform extremely well with another class at a similar tier as well. In fact these players often are in divisions with other great players, who focused on BBs or CAs and who do have amazing stats in these classes.

You can't compare the average xp that a high tier CV player will have, heavily influenced by the tier 8-9-10 CVs, with the average xp they have on the few games they played on tier 1-2 CAs and tier 3 BBs.

Neither can you assess the balance of a class of ships based on the performances of such players, especially that early after the wipe.

 

In fact, my biggest concern about CVs are what they earn. They earn far too much. They do a lot ( and too much as well, best scout, best damage dealer, etc...) but their risk vs reward is 0. They virtually take no risk.

 

I wonder what would be your average xp if you play USN CV. And I checked a lot of CVs players before saying this, but "most" of them have by far more average xp on CV than on any other class, but they all play IJN CVs.