genai Beta Tester 675 posts 1,928 battles Report post #1 Posted July 6, 2015 I know that 3.1.4 patch made some changes to nerf the angling and stuff... but did anyone else notice that currently BB AP shells tend to citadel cruisers no matter the angle or armor they are hitting? I played 3.1.4 patch and it wasnt as bad as it is now... Lately in Mogami ive been citadel hit by fuso, warspite, new york etc at extreme angles and even from the straight front... 20° hits for massive dmg, hits from front (warspite hit my bow for 24k hp and killed me... same with other BBs)... it seems like yolo torp runs in IJN CAs have gotten much worse, as everyone just shoots front and deals massive dmg to you! Even in myoko i managed to citadel Pensacola from the front shooting right at his bow... didnt even see his side, he was going right at me... Hits like these: | | /\ |\ or even worse angles regularly result in citadel hits! Or some strange things are happening... as every game i continue to shoot broadside then turn towards/away from BBs to be as angled as possible... and they just continue to deal massive dmg with every hit no matter what... That used to be almost impossible and what made yolo torp runs possible... now you dont even get in reasonable range to launch them before you die... Seems like another ninja change before OBT, like module crits... or its supposed to be that way and make IJN cruiser so much worse now? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sharana Alpha Tester 2,271 posts 1,040 battles Report post #2 Posted July 6, 2015 The breakthrough rule was buffed from 1/20 of the calibre to 1/14.3. Cruisers are not armored in the bow and the AP shell pretty much explodes in the citadel as it can't overpenetrate the entire hull's lenght. It was this way pre 0.3.1 when they implemented the armor and messed everything up where cruisers (well not only them) were immune to AP shells and were stomping BBs. No ninja changes it's this way from 0.3.1.4 or .5, I don't remember anymore. It's pretty much the same early CBT situation where BBs were owning cruisers with every hit they make, but the cruisers now use HE and fires to deal their damage on BBs instead of the ridicolous AP penetrations from 155mm guns against BBs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,636 posts 24,864 battles Report post #3 Posted July 6, 2015 The breakthrough rule was buffed from 1/20 of the calibre to 1/14.3. Cruisers are not armored in the bow and the AP shell pretty much explodes in the citadel as it can't overpenetrate the entire hull's lenght. It was this way pre 0.3.1 when they implemented the armor and messed everything up where cruisers (well not only them) were immune to AP shells and were stomping BBs. No ninja changes it's this way from 0.3.1.4 or .5, I don't remember anymore. It's pretty much the same early CBT situation where BBs were owning cruisers with every hit they make, but the cruisers now use HE and fires to deal their damage on BBs instead of the ridicolous AP penetrations from 155mm guns against BBs. So, what you wanted to say was - in short - "No Bug - Working as intended"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genai Beta Tester 675 posts 1,928 battles Report post #4 Posted July 6, 2015 Yea... makes my way of playing IJN CA much worse Thats how i did avg 105k dmg in Zao... and now im trying the same, never even get in range for turn and torps I would think that that kind of angle that is at the bow would make it impossible to pen... \/ /\ How can that pen unless it manages to hit the tip perfectly... seems like it should just graze it and do nothing... especially jap cruisers that are kinda long and thin I would prefer to actually utilize torps on Japs instead of pretending to be US cruisers and just spam HE... i hate HE spam... feels so skill-less Also makes no sense since they are even less mobile... Buff IJN CA frontal armor, raaawr! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #5 Posted July 6, 2015 The breakthrough rule was buffed from 1/20 of the calibre to 1/14.3. Cruisers are not armored in the bow and the AP shell pretty much explodes in the citadel as it can't overpenetrate the entire hull's lenght. It was this way pre 0.3.1 when they implemented the armor and messed everything up where cruisers (well not only them) were immune to AP shells and were stomping BBs. No ninja changes it's this way from 0.3.1.4 or .5, I don't remember anymore. It's pretty much the same early CBT situation where BBs were owning cruisers with every hit they make, but the cruisers now use HE and fires to deal their damage on BBs instead of the ridicolous AP penetrations from 155mm guns against BBs. So now we just need a patch that removes the RNG chance of single BB shells doing 20-30k non-magazine detonation damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #6 Posted July 6, 2015 It probably pens your superstructure and explodes in the middle of the ship which grants a citadel hit. Yeah, no more Banzai charges using angling to stop 406 mm shells I suppose. They still kinda work if you are lucky and thanks to the dispersion of the BB guns. Wonder if the Zao is not a battlecruiser in disguise anymore Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-5D-] Hannibalurg Beta Tester 950 posts Report post #7 Posted July 6, 2015 IJN CA have easy accessable Citadels, unlike the American. With the fuso i think i have oneshotted atleast 3-4 Atago's. (1 shot as in 1 salvo) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #8 Posted July 6, 2015 IJN CA have easy accessable Citadels, unlike the American. With the fuso i think i have oneshotted atleast 3-4 Atago's. (1 shot as in 1 salvo) Don't trust wallet warrios to showcase valid CA vs BB tactics. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sharana Alpha Tester 2,271 posts 1,040 battles Report post #9 Posted July 6, 2015 So, what you wanted to say was - in short - "No Bug - Working as intended"? Yes it was always the case and it'se more then logical. The 0.3.1.0 - 0.3.1.4 was screwed situation where cruisers could bounce the BB's APs and go toe to toe with them ... which is not working as intended. I would think that that kind of angle that is at the bow would make it impossible to pen... \/ /\ How can that pen unless it manages to hit the tip perfectly... seems like it should just graze it and do nothing... It's not thick armor there, it's simply constructive steel that's not armorthick, so the AP shells break through the armor with kinetic energy, they can't bounce. The "tin cans" (DDs) were bouncing AP shells from CAs which was just as ridiculous So now we just need a patch that removes the RNG chance of single BB shells doing 20-30k non-magazine detonation damage. There aren't such shells, the citadel penetration is what you see as max damage for the AP shells. 20-30K will be more then 1 shell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genai Beta Tester 675 posts 1,928 battles Report post #10 Posted July 6, 2015 Yea... i get that, its just that i dont think such change should be to all CAs... IJN already have weak sides and turn like BBs, bad RoF so not as good for sniping duels and have torps... so making them weak from all sides and have bad dpm while having torps that they cant use mostly because they die when they go in range is kinda silly... Now you really need to avoid 100% of shots not to get wrecked in IJN CA... and never getting close to use torps Gameplay wise it would make sense to have them worse at gunnery duels and good for yolo torp runs... as they are already worse against DDs and planes and are not that maneuverable to dodge every shell... so they should be better vs BBs... but depending on getting in range for torps unnoticed is kinda... bad... and its how i played ibuki and zao in cbt... straight at enemy... when i get in like 5k range and he fires... i turn and launch torps and run behind him so he cant turn turrets... now i died every time i tried that lol... even to 2-3 tier lower BBs... Bad frontally, bad side, bad maneuverability, bad AA, speed and torps only good things... would make sense for rushing with good frontal armor And would make both lines play very differently (HE spam is so damn boring)! One artillery and other half DD half CA style 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PRAVD] Takeda92 Weekend Tester 3,802 posts 8,478 battles Report post #11 Posted July 6, 2015 Hurr durr BB UP buff BB nerf everything else!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Ezio_ Beta Tester 3,371 posts 6,485 battles Report post #12 Posted July 6, 2015 Well the biggest problem is that the IJN CA's, well all their ships, got those big Citadells which make up 95% of the ship, while US Citadells are like 10% of the ship. I still fail to understand why the difference is so big but I am certain not even WG knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,636 posts 24,864 battles Report post #13 Posted July 6, 2015 Gameplay wise it would make sense to have them worse at gunnery duels and good for yolo torp runs... Gameplay wise it's: Cruisers should fight cruisers and DDs, do AA and sink a CV if the get near enough. If you molest a BB with your HE peashooters than get ready to get sunk! Cruisers fighting toe to toe with a BB aren't realistic. And although this is a action simulation, a bit realism has been implemented. Time to change your tactics 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genai Beta Tester 675 posts 1,928 battles Report post #14 Posted July 6, 2015 Gameplay wise it's: Cruisers should fight cruisers and DDs, do AA and sink a CV if the get near enough. If you molest a BB with your HE peashooters than get ready to get sunk! Cruisers fighting toe to toe with a BB aren't realistic. And although this is a action simulation, a bit realism has been implemented. Time to change your tactics Good joke tho... keep it up IJN CAs good against DD and planes.... best joke all day Yes... game is anything except realistic... mostly realism removed to make it easier on BBs... Maybe you should know what you are talking about 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TEEF] Purple_Alert Beta Tester 273 posts 6,961 battles Report post #15 Posted July 6, 2015 Don't trust wallet warrios to showcase valid CA vs BB tactics. Wallet warriors? I love this mentality from the pikeys who don't realise paying customers give them their free game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,636 posts 24,864 battles Report post #16 Posted July 6, 2015 Maybe you should know what you are talking about Well, I'm not the one whining about BBs being able to sink Cruisers And I play ALL ships classes - taking pride in being bad in any class.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del_Mare Weekend Tester 461 posts 2,563 battles Report post #17 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) so here we have someone whining because bb's are too strong vs CA's, maybe we can connect him to the thread where the others whine that bb's have no chance versus CA's... they can continue to fight it out ah, here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18325-world-of-anything-but-bbs/ Edited July 6, 2015 by Del_Mare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genai Beta Tester 675 posts 1,928 battles Report post #18 Posted July 6, 2015 Clearly... since IJN CAs are bad against DDs and very bad against planes... and they should just die to BBs... so what are they supposed to be? Yes... youve got it... they should be better against BBs... since they have torps and are worse than US CA against everything else... and if they cant get close to launch them.,.. then they are worse against BBs too... What is the point of them then? They trade guns, hp, maneuverability for torps... so trading vs dd, ca and cv for being better vs BB... yet they are not due to huge citadels and frontally assault no longer working... yet they have their Long Lances removed... why exactly? Trade power in 80% of fields for torps (unrealistically nerfed ones... because they are not BBs, so cant be strong) and they cant get close to launch them anymore... so why tradeoff? Why nerfed torps? Why nerfed RoF? Yes... you have no common sense whatsoever... And del mare another troll post that has nothing to do with this thread and specifically says ijn CA... that are worse than US ones in everything and no longer can utilize torps against bb... so worst against everything and nerfed in many fields for no reason i guess... after only thing they were better at was removed... Keep up... maybe one day you will post something useful by accident Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del_Mare Weekend Tester 461 posts 2,563 battles Report post #19 Posted July 6, 2015 mogami worse than New Orleans now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ST-EU] Admiral_noodle Supertest Coordinator 6,337 posts 4,395 battles Report post #20 Posted July 6, 2015 Someone else noticed this! Not all angles but oh yeah big guns can proper wreck cruisers now. Good ;and I play cruisers) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RONIN] 22cm Beta Tester 6,377 posts 36,662 battles Report post #21 Posted July 6, 2015 Someone else noticed this! Not all angles but oh yeah big guns can proper wreck cruisers now. Good ;and I play cruisers) Hmm, not reallistic. Extreme angles should not be penned. They are called CA - armored cruisers - because they have some armor. Not even BBs have armor all-over. Maybe that s why last time in MM queue: 150 BBs, 15 CV+CA+DD. Very funny. I ve even had a game where 6 out 12 ships in a team where BBs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del_Mare Weekend Tester 461 posts 2,563 battles Report post #22 Posted July 6, 2015 feast for the cv's and dd's =) gonna need to dig my minekaze out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #23 Posted July 6, 2015 mogami worse than New Orleans now? Worse at everything but health and top speed. Oh and torps ofc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumbo11 Beta Tester 158 posts 633 battles Report post #24 Posted July 6, 2015 Hmm, not reallistic. Extreme angles should not be penned. They are called CA - armored cruisers - because they have some armor. Not even BBs have armor all-over. Ironically, if you boost CA armour, then BBs would be more effective against them (shooting a CA with BB/AP will overpen in most locations). Armour in WoWs is a very strange thing indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ST-EU] Admiral_noodle Supertest Coordinator 6,337 posts 4,395 battles Report post #25 Posted July 6, 2015 Hmm, not reallistic. Extreme angles should not be penned. They are called CA - armored cruisers - because they have some armor. Not even BBs have armor all-over. Maybe that s why last time in MM queue: 150 BBs, 15 CV+CA+DD. Very funny. I ve even had a game where 6 out 12 ships in a team where BBs. To be fair I've only noticed it at flat angles. And I've yet to do it to a St. Louis. My poor Omaha got wrecked by a stealth New Mexico because I went side on. Not sure why so many BBs right now. Cruisers are still more fun to me. I'm just grinding to Kongo then going to focus on US cruisers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
