Jap CV vs US CV

[Nazgulen]

Is it just me or is the diffrence between this two nations too big, the US ships have way better fighters (and due to 2 more planes per wing a massive plus). Another issue i have with the diffrence is that the Jap CV's have a much much worse spread of their torpedo's (due to the US having two more planes per wing).

[Rem3mberMe]

Yes, I suck in JPN carrier so hard. Even tier IV Langley completely owns my fully upgraded/perked tier V fighters... nothing I can do with it. Is it better to go full damage setup on tier V and VI? Or is there simply a bad gameplay from my side?

[AgarwaenME]

It's just WG not heeding what CV players have been saying for months, nor paying attention to the metagame it has created. It's a mix of weird fighter improvements by tier and air group setups that either makes a CV too good (single strike CV in match), mostly pointless (single fighter CV in match), effective (fighter CV vs 2x strike CV), effective/too good (fighter CV+strike CV vs single CV), a forgone conclusion where you get blown out of the water first because it's the clever move (2 strike CVs vs single strike CV) or an utter mess where only luck of spotting and other random factors detemines it (2 strike CVs vs 2 strike CVs).

 

Ie, strike setups should have more fighters to strike planes, and fighter setups should have more strike planes to fighters. This was how CV play was before IJN CVs were introduced, with strike planes not merely being able to shuttle bombs to and fro, you needed to establish l air superiority, and if you lost air superioriy you would have to pick targets even more carefully. Though even then the differences in fighters from tier to tier made being a lower tier CV a likely bad scenario.

[Rem3mberMe]

I do not think there is a way how to establish air superiority in JPN CV.

[AgarwaenME]

I do not think there is a way how to establish air superiority in JPN CV.

 

Not with the strike only (or almost strike only) setups IJN CV captains seem to favour, or in any IJN CV setup against a fighter heavy US CV of same or even a tier lower (slightly depending on what tier due to the unever fighter upgrades). Though even a single IJN figthter that is free to roam can limit an opposing CV to a significant degree.

[Boevebeest]

Like I tried to explain before.

In the current way CV's just can't be balanced and fun to play.

 

Problem is that CV's play a entirely other game than other ships.

 

They play a RTS air/air to ground(sea) game while the rest of the team plays a first/second person shooter.

 

The fleet can't directly attack the planes, AA is automated and short range. CV's deliver their damage from a distance of their HP, loosing planes sucks but it is not your life.

OK, running out of planes sucks big time, but how many games end in a draw because the last CV is to far away? Or domination is won because the CV is running long enough.

A complete other game they play.

 

Then the second problem.

So not to let CV's dominate the game it seems there is a cap of max two per game and thank god WG capped them at one per division.

 

This means that the direct enemy of CV's is other CV's. With such a small player base per game tier difference has a to big of a impact.

One on one a Cleaveland will beat a Aboa most of the time, but the Aboa is part of the team and can hide in the team or wait for support before engaging.

 

CV's are at best with two to support each other in the air. Sure you can paste your planes above a friendly ship with AA but then what?

 

To make the grind worth it as all ships, CV's need to progress thus get better tier by tier.

Also to make them fun and diverse the different nations need some flavor of their own.

 

In a team of 14 other friendly ships not having one ability is not bad, work with your team and you do a lot for it.

If you play one on one, as CV's mostly do, a small disadvantage is deadly.

 

Like a lot of CV players ask for, giving them xp for shooting planes, is a bad idea. Then torp and bomb damage must be reduced or like the numbers already seem to prove, they grind much harder than any other class.

You can't make them more the same, that is no fun. Making the upgrades tier by tier smaller, why grind then, not rewarding at all to get a marginal upgrade for 80K xp.

They are a mess and shall stay a mess.

 

In its current state CV's will never be balanced.

No matter which CV you go for, be ready for a endless balancing, re balancing, buffing, nerfing till you just give up. And the crap you have to put up with from own and enemy team.

 

 

[LtCol_William_Lovelady]

Well it seems to be just me who thinks you dont have a chance in US CV.

Last 3 games. against tier V Jap CV it takes 1 minute and you have 4 squardrons of Bombers and TB on you. the own fighter squad fires a little and destroys a few but you are sunk every time. 

 

You just cant defend against 4 - 5 squads having just 2

 

In Tier IV that was different. The Langley is superior but the Bogue just sucks

[Trebz]

Midway Fighters only got a loadout of 20

[CALigEr190TankManc]

Is it just me or is the diffrence between this two nations too big, the US ships have way better fighters (and due to 2 more planes per wing a massive plus). Another issue i have with the diffrence is that the Jap CV's have a much much worse spread of their torpedo's (due to the US having two more planes per wing).

 

It works like this:

IJN carriers tend to get more chances to do damage: more squads + more planes in total = harder to avoid damage from torps and bombs.

This means that they are generally extremely annoying and sometimes even downright deadly if used correctly against almost any surface vessels.

They reward good timing/positioning and are, imo, generally excellent for providing fleet support in the form of raw damage. But you're only really effective at the very beginning and/or very end of the game.

 

USN carriers are more for attrition and air support. More fighter per squad means a greater AA potential, although its not unstoppable. A good counter for Japanese fighters (if you use them, which I do for escorting torp bombers) is to circle cruisers and/or your bombers and bait them into attacking, the combined firepower of the bombers and cruiser(s) quickly makes up the difference. On the flip side this allows you to 'shut down' corridors of airspace.

You are a very foolish IJN carrier captain if you try to meet a USN squadron plane for plane.

Also I feel the torps aren't as reliable as the Japanese torps for laying down constant damage. You get more chance to hit in one squad, but fewer squads means fewer angels of attack thus they are easier to dodge and a smaller total of torps will hit the target. Similar is true for bombs.

But, again, harder to remove squadrons and easily asserted air dominance makes you a force for the larger majority of the game.

Far more forgiving of misplays and much easier to mange.

 

General tactics for carrier in general:

-Keep all your squadrons together, don't allow your enemies to focus down/outnumber individuals.

-Attack with ALL your squadrons on a single target (yes, and your fighters). DO NOT split them up. This has multiple reasonings: the enemy carrier may be watching and waiting to pick off your bombers as you go in for a run (another good tactic for Japanese fighter), you want to try to divide enemy AA as much as possible and finally more torps/bombs=better chance to hit = better damage.

-Keep your carrier just behind the battleships, you want to reduce the time your squads are in the air (ESPECIALLY in IJN carriers) so reduce the distance they have to travel as much as possible. Hanging around at the back handy caps your performance and hands the advantage to more aggressive carrier players.

-Be CONSTANTLY watching your target and everything around it, You want to be able to make adjustments as you approach and not at last second. also watch out for enemy AA and how far away the target is. Don't worry about your carrier unless your squads are returning or you are under fire.

Oh, and please pay attention to when a flank may be exposed.

 

I hope my experience with carriers, and the tactics I've developed, help some of you out. 

Carriers are one of my favourite ship classes and both nations have there own 'attitude' and play style, just try it out with some of the tactics I presented, I promise you wont regret playing them. 

[Takeda92]

It's because WG completely messed up in every patch ever since they introduced the Japanese carriers. They had no idea what they were doing and in the end they just gave up and made them uninteresting. 

[DtXpwnz]

It was discussed many times before.

Imo USN midtier carriers have a choice of 3 loadouts. Fighter loadout - useless no matter what happens. Stock loadout - useless, because 1 fighter isn't enough to protect yourself from IJN carrier and he will just kill you and you can't kill him. Fullstrike loadout - semi-useful, problem is only one TB squadron, it will be allways focused by AA and DBs just aren't reliable enough, you will struggle to snipe enemy CV and he can snipe you easily.

 

Oh btw... http://oi59.tinypic.com/oqefkp.jpg

 

What we need is more balanced options.

[TriATK]

US CV OP, plz buff IJN CV(from an IJN CV player)

[Outlawz0111]

The japanese carriers need fixing because in lower tiers the US carriers absolutely rip their planes to shreds. I just had a match in my tier 5 jap carrier, sent two torp bombers to the left and one torp & dive bomber to the right, within 2 minutes my squads on left got obliterated, a minute later or so my other right squads got a heavy beating, returned to ship and already my squads are 75% gone. I actually asked for help from my team and they insulted me, most of em. I sent out my last planes and the damned US fighters were waiting for me and i did absolutely nothing that match and its been like this a lot, sometimes i get good games, but only when theirs no US carrier on enemy team!.

[gorgutzer]

The japanese carriers need fixing because in lower tiers the US carriers absolutely rip their planes to shreds. I just had a match in my tier 5 jap carrier, sent two torp bombers to the left and one torp & dive bomber to the right, within 2 minutes my squads on left got obliterated, a minute later or so my other right squads got a heavy beating, returned to ship and already my squads are 75% gone. I actually asked for help from my team and they insulted me, most of em. I sent out my last planes and the damned US fighters were waiting for me and i did absolutely nothing that match and its been like this a lot, sometimes i get good games, but only when theirs no US carrier on enemy team!.

 

Dont worry u didnt face my midway yet.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/443952088707377943/00B1B38007273E0B674941BA772664A8AC997ECA/

[Cou2707]

Does anyone know why they nerfed the spread on the IJN torp planes but not the USN? US CVs can hit with 5 torps with just 1 squadron, IJN would need 3 squads just to get the same level of damage because the spread usually only lets you hit with 2 torps per squad. Thats not even mentioning the US fighter supremacy!  

[JohnHusky]

To stand even a chance vs US fighters, you have to put every single skill point and modules into HP of your fighters, and then fight with all your fighters in a blob. Otherwise the US wins every time.

[gjural]

well... i play both CV's ...

 

and i feel that US is overpowered. 

IJN has better torpedos, but you launch them widley and you have less planes in a group. so here US wins. 

Fighters... well here is just nothing to say... US are pretty much OP. if you wan't to keep this pharameter then IJN should have double the planes on board... just to have some chance.

 

[Hauptbahnhof]

well... i play both CV's ...

 

and i feel that US is overpowered. 

 

IJN has better torpedos, but you launch them widley and you have less planes in a group. so here US wins. 

 

 

Actually USN has better torpedoes too, IJN just happen to have more of them ( 8 vs 6 ) for most tiers.

[Makoniel]

 

Actually USN has better torpedoes too, IJN just happen to have more of them ( 8 vs 6 ) for most tiers.

 

They have more and hit less. Actually when playing my Battleships, I can somehow manage to dodge an IJN TB attack (that means, 1 to 2 torps hitting me, that's fair), but when a single USN TB attacks me, I know 1/2 of my hp pool will be gone. Because the spread is so thin, evasive manoeuvers doesn't works at all. 

When you dodge well an USN TB attack, it means you've been hit by only 4 torps.

[Reyte]

At the same time usn cvs are worse against dds and cruiser becsuse of the slowers torps. Usn torpedobomber are pretty much anti bb

[Kenjiro_]

IJN Carriers are deadlier to ships but they cannot fly at all unless USN Carriers let them. Fighter setup USN Carriers simply paralyze IJN Carriers. As IJN Captain, there is nothing you can do unless enemy USN captain plays badly. Otherwise just pass to next game...

[Reyte]

IJN Carriers are deadlier to ships but they cannot fly at all unless USN Carriers let them. Fighter setup USN Carriers simply paralyze IJN Carriers. As IJN Captain, there is nothing you can do unless enemy USN captain plays badly. Otherwise just pass to next game...

 That might be true vs a fighter cv in tier 5-6, but after that a ijn cv csn do huge damage before he eventually will run out ofplanes. Did 136k damage against a lexington before i run out of planes. My targets even ve been iowa,izumo, new orleans and yamato

[gjural]

 That might be true vs a fighter cv in tier 5-6, but after that a ijn cv csn do huge damage before he eventually will run out ofplanes. Did 136k damage against a lexington before i run out of planes. My targets even ve been iowa,izumo, new orleans and yamato

 

it is not true.. if you watch over you fighters... and you play US you actualy paralize IJN. and as stated above.. IJN can play only  if US allows you to.

[alalos]

 

it is not true.. if you watch over you fighters... and you play US you actualy paralize IJN. and as stated above.. IJN can play only  if US allows you to.

 

that is the perfect scenario.

 

We had yesterday in our team 2 tier 6 us cv´s vs 2 tier 6 ijn cv´s.. guess what ? 

 

US CV´s stats :

0 kills 39 planes

 

IJN CV´s stats :

5 kills 23 planes

 

okay... our team wasn´t the smartest when it came down to avoiding torps.. but they were together.. and our cv´s even failed to protect the last 3 ships from torp runs.

 

this happens... 2 skilled cv cpt will always find a way to counter the enemy cv here and there... but at the end.. it depends just how skilled the cv guys are... and how "stupid" the enemy team is. There is no 100% protection.

[DirtyHarry_15]

 

 

 Every time I come into the forums theres a new post about CV`s and it seems that most don`t like the unbalance that the IJN CV`s have with the over powered USN CV`s!!

 

ARE YOU LISTENING WG !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Probably not as their about to nerf the IJN CV`s...YET again with a drop in torpedo dps and a different even more annoying spread for torpedos

No weapon upgrade for TB`s and DB`s from 4 to 10 (USN do have upgrade`s all the way up to 10 !)

No decent spread

NO chance against USN fighter groups

 

Gonna look into this whole CV fiasco WG ??

 

NO BLOODY CHANCE !!