Spanish Tech Tree Proposal

[Defcon13]

Spain from 1850 army hat lost all of its power and have also equipment out dated.

Take for example the bf109 in spain a plane from WW2 have been active until 1980 

Check your sources mate. The Hispano Aviación HA-1112 Buchon (not a Bf 109) was decomissioned in the late 1965/early 1966. Seems like you are misinformed... in planes and ships.

[delaci76]

Muy interessante y gracias!

 

If you find out any in existence and where they are would be great to go see them. I am often in Spain.

 

Would be great if WG eventually put at least one in as a premium maybe...

 

 

[chamorro]

 

if you look at the naval foce before and after the republic, you will see that compared to the any contry that has taked part in WW2 are outdated.

Spain from 1850 army hat lost all of its power and have also equipment out dated.

Take for example the bf109 in spain a plane from WW2 have been active until 1980 

Seem appened with naval power Spain had always out dated equipment so is useles to try to make it in the game.

 

 

 

 *The ships with the tag MODERN were ships which were in service during WWII and can considered NOT to be outdated (this is comparing it to other vessels which participated in other major nations with partial or great success)

 

Reina Doña Isabel II (1854-1885) - Modernized Ship of the Line

 Rey Don Francisco de Asís (1854-1876) - Modernized Ship of the Line

 Ferrolana (1848-1897) - corvette

 Mazarredo (1847-1890) - corvette

 Villa de Bilbao (1845-1930) - corvette, later school ship

 Dédalo (1922-1940) - seaplane tender

 Isaac Peral (1888-1890) - Submarine

 Isaac Peral (1917-1930) - Submarine, equivalent to USS M-1

 A class F/Laurenti (1917-1931),  3 units - submarines

 B class Holland F105 (1921-1951), 6 units - submarines

 C class Holand F105 (1928-1951), 6 units - submarines (MODERN submarines)

 General Mola class (1937-1959), 2 units, - submarines (equivalent to any other submarine in WWII, so to say MODERN submarines)

 S01 class (1942-1970), 1 unit, -submarine (MODERN submarine)

 S10 class (1947-1965), 1 unit, -submarine (MODERN submarine)

 Numancia (1863) - ironclad

 Tetuán (1863) - ironclad

 Arapiles (1864) - ironclad

 Vitoria (1865) - ironclad

 Zaragoza (1867) - ironclad

 Sagunto (1869) - ironclad

 Méndez Núñez (1869) - ironclad

 Pelayo (1888) - Battleship

 Petronila class (1857), Concepción Class (1860), Lealtad class (1860), and other non-class ships, 13 units, - screw frigates

 Narváez class (1868) and other non-class ships, 9 ships, - screw corvettes

 Covadonga class, Santa Filomena class, Santa Teresa class (all 1860s), 21 units, - schooners

 Various different classes and non-class ships (1850s and 1860s), 40 units, - paddle steamers

 España class (1917-1937), 3 units, - Battleships

 Aragón class (1881-1889), 3 units, -  protected cruisers

 Velasco class (1881-1900), 8 units - protected cruisers

 Isla de Luzón class (1887-1900), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Reina Regente class (1888-1908), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Alfonso XII class (1890-1900), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Infanta María Teresa class (1893-1898), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Critóbal Colón (1897-1898) - protected cruiser

 Emperador Carlos V (1898-1922) - protected cruiser

 Río de la Plata (1900-1922) - protected cruiser

 Extremadura (1902-1922) - protected cruiser

 Cardenal Cisneros class (1903-1928), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Reina Regente (1910-1926) - protected cruiser

 Reina Victoria Eugenia/República/Navarra (1923-1956) - light cruiser (MODERN during WWII since it had already overwent modernization)

 Blas de Lezo (1925-1932) - light cruiser

 Méndez Núñez, Blas de Lezo class (1924-1963) - light cruiser (equivalent to some Light Cruiser classes from other major nations, modernized to AA cruiser in 1950)

 Almirante Cervera class (1928-1966), 3 units - light cruiser (MODERN)

 Canarias class (1936-1975), 2 units, - Heavy cruiser (MODERN)

 Destructor (1887-1909) - destroyer

 Furor class (1897-1925), 6 units - destroyer

 Bustamante class (1914-1932), 3 units - destroyer

 Alsedo class (1924-1961), 3 units - destroyer

 Churruca I class (1928-1964), 7 units - destroyer (MODERN)

 Churruca II class (1935-1970), 7 units - destroyer (MODERN)

 Huesca class (1937-1953), 2 units - destroyer

 Ceuta class (1937-1950), 2 units - destroyer

 Puigcerdá (1874-1900) - Monitor

 Duque de Tetuán (1874-1900) - Monitor

 Multiple classes (between 1860 and 1950), 14 classes, 91 units - gunboats

 Multiple classes and sole ships (between 1872 and 1926), 9 classes, 45 units - small gunboats

 Temerario class and Filipinas class (1892-1921), 7 units - torpedo gunboats

 Multiple classes and sole ships (1878-1950), 16 classes, 61 units - torpedo boats

 Multiple classes (1910-1950), 5 classes, 22 units - patrol boats

 Marte, Júpiter and Eolo classes (1938-1970), 6 units - Minelayers (MODERN)

 Bidasoa class (1946-1973), 7 units - Minesweepers

 

It seems quite nice for a navy which lost all its naval power in 1850 right? (don't even know why 1850, clearly an invented "I'll say behind this date even though it is not relevant at all for the subject we are speaking", sounds legit)

I think that it is now clear that you should maybe study your facts a little bit more

 

So, in total, in the following period (1850-1950), the spanish Navy had the following number of ships:

 

• 2 Modernized ships of the line
• 3 corvettes
• 1 seaplane tender
• 21 submarines (8 MODERN)
• 7 Ironclads
• 4 Battleships
• 13 Screw Frigates
• 9 screw corvettes
• 21 schooners
• 40 paddle steamers
• 31 protected cruisers
• 6 Light Cruisers (4 MODERN)
• 2 Heavy cruisers (2 MODERN)
• 31 Destroyers (14 MODERN)
• 2 Monitor ships
• 91 gunboats
• 45 small gunboats
• 7 torpedo gunboats
• 61 torpedo boats
• 22 patrol boats
• 6 Minelayers (all of them MODERN)
• 7 Minesweepers

 

Compared to ANY otehr WWII country? seriously? let me tell you which WWII navies had a more powerfull navy than Spain at the time (and we will finish before than doing the ones who didn't)

• USA
• UK
• Japan
• Italy
• France
• Germany
• USSR
• The Netherlands (and only slightly more powerfull)

(In terms of firepower, Australia had a fairly similar one, could be argued that any of the 2 was slightly more powerfull, but the number of surface combatant units is similar)

Guess what? ALL the rest of the countries which participated in WWII had worse navies than Spain (and the ones remainings are quite a lot)

 

So, as I said before, please take your CLEARLY unhistorical facts and leave

 

Thank you

[chamorro]

 

And yes the Russian fleet had participated in naval warfare before 1939 against japan

And the navy was impotrat because they were getting support from USA and UK by sea also he submarine fleet sunk a considerable number of German ships 

 

Yeah, because sinking refugee ships makes a navy important,

 it is ok to be lacking knowledge in Naval history (like you do); but it is not ok to try to pretend that you know what you don't and just keep humilliating yourself

 

So, please LEAVE this thread already, we don't need people like you when doing a project like this

 

Thanks

[Deamon93]

 

 *The ships with the tag MODERN were ships which were in service during WWII and can considered NOT to be outdated (this is comparing it to other vessels which participated in other major nations with partial or great success)

 

Reina Doña Isabel II (1854-1885) - Modernized Ship of the Line

 Rey Don Francisco de Asís (1854-1876) - Modernized Ship of the Line

 Ferrolana (1848-1897) - corvette

 Mazarredo (1847-1890) - corvette

 Villa de Bilbao (1845-1930) - corvette, later school ship

 Dédalo (1922-1940) - seaplane tender

 Isaac Peral (1888-1890) - Submarine

 Isaac Peral (1917-1930) - Submarine, equivalent to USS M-1

 A class F/Laurenti (1917-1931),  3 units - submarines

 B class Holland F105 (1921-1951), 6 units - submarines

 C class Holand F105 (1928-1951), 6 units - submarines (MODERN submarines)

 General Mola class (1937-1959), 2 units, - submarines (equivalent to any other submarine in WWII, so to say MODERN submarines)

 S01 class (1942-1970), 1 unit, -submarine (MODERN submarine)

 S10 class (1947-1965), 1 unit, -submarine (MODERN submarine)

 Numancia (1863) - ironclad

 Tetuán (1863) - ironclad

 Arapiles (1864) - ironclad

 Vitoria (1865) - ironclad

 Zaragoza (1867) - ironclad

 Sagunto (1869) - ironclad

 Méndez Núñez (1869) - ironclad

 Pelayo (1888) - Battleship

 Petronila class (1857), Concepción Class (1860), Lealtad class (1860), and other non-class ships, 13 units, - screw frigates

 Narváez class (1868) and other non-class ships, 9 ships, - screw corvettes

 Covadonga class, Santa Filomena class, Santa Teresa class (all 1860s), 21 units, - schooners

 Various different classes and non-class ships (1850s and 1860s), 40 units, - paddle steamers

 España class (1917-1937), 3 units, - Battleships

 Aragón class (1881-1889), 3 units, -  protected cruisers

 Velasco class (1881-1900), 8 units - protected cruisers

 Isla de Luzón class (1887-1900), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Reina Regente class (1888-1908), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Alfonso XII class (1890-1900), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Infanta María Teresa class (1893-1898), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Critóbal Colón (1897-1898) - protected cruiser

 Emperador Carlos V (1898-1922) - protected cruiser

 Río de la Plata (1900-1922) - protected cruiser

 Extremadura (1902-1922) - protected cruiser

 Cardenal Cisneros class (1903-1928), 3 units - protected cruisers

 Reina Regente (1910-1926) - protected cruiser

 Reina Victoria Eugenia/República/Navarra (1923-1956) - light cruiser (MODERN during WWII since it had already overwent modernization)

 Blas de Lezo (1925-1932) - light cruiser

 Méndez Núñez, Blas de Lezo class (1924-1963) - light cruiser (equivalent to some Light Cruiser classes from other major nations, modernized to AA cruiser in 1950)

 Almirante Cervera class (1928-1966), 3 units - light cruiser (MODERN)

 Canarias class (1936-1975), 2 units, - Heavy cruiser (MODERN)

 Destructor (1887-1909) - destroyer

 Furor class (1897-1925), 6 units - destroyer

 Bustamante class (1914-1932), 3 units - destroyer

 Alsedo class (1924-1961), 3 units - destroyer

 Churruca I class (1928-1964), 7 units - destroyer (MODERN)

 Churruca II class (1935-1970), 7 units - destroyer (MODERN)

 Huesca class (1937-1953), 2 units - destroyer

 Ceuta class (1937-1950), 2 units - destroyer

 Puigcerdá (1874-1900) - Monitor

 Duque de Tetuán (1874-1900) - Monitor

 Multiple classes (between 1860 and 1950), 14 classes, 91 units - gunboats

 Multiple classes and sole ships (between 1872 and 1926), 9 classes, 45 units - small gunboats

 Temerario class and Filipinas class (1892-1921), 7 units - torpedo gunboats

 Multiple classes and sole ships (1878-1950), 16 classes, 61 units - torpedo boats

 Multiple classes (1910-1950), 5 classes, 22 units - patrol boats

 Marte, Júpiter and Eolo classes (1938-1970), 6 units - Minelayers (MODERN)

 Bidasoa class (1946-1973), 7 units - Minesweepers

 

It seems quite nice for a navy which lost all its naval power in 1850 right? (don't even know why 1850, clearly an invented "I'll say behind this date even though it is not relevant at all for the subject we are speaking", sounds legit)

I think that it is now clear that you should maybe study your facts a little bit more

 

So, in total, in the following period (1850-1950), the spanish Navy had the following number of ships:

 

• 2 Modernized ships of the line
• 3 corvettes
• 1 seaplane tender
• 21 submarines (8 MODERN)
• 7 Ironclads
• 4 Battleships
• 13 Screw Frigates
• 9 screw corvettes
• 21 schooners
• 40 paddle steamers
• 31 protected cruisers
• 6 Light Cruisers (4 MODERN)
• 2 Heavy cruisers (2 MODERN)
• 31 Destroyers (14 MODERN)
• 2 Monitor ships
• 91 gunboats
• 45 small gunboats
• 7 torpedo gunboats
• 61 torpedo boats
• 22 patrol boats
• 6 Minelayers (all of them MODERN)
• 7 Minesweepers

 

Compared to ANY otehr WWII country? seriously? let me tell you which WWII navies had a more powerfull navy than Spain at the time (and we will finish before than doing the ones who didn't)

• USA
• UK
• Japan
• Italy
• France
• Germany
• USSR
• Nerderlands (and only slightly more powerfull)

(In terms of firepower, Australia had a fairly similar one, could be argued that any of the 2 was slightly more powerfull, but the number of surface combatant units is similar)

Guess what? ALL the rest of the countries which participated in WWII had worse navies than Spain (and the ones remainings are quite a lot)

 

So, as I said before, please take your CLEARLY unhistorical facts and leave

 

Thank you

 

 

Yeah, because sinking refugee ships makes a navy important,

 it is ok to be lacking knowledge in Naval history (like you do); but it is not ok to try to pretend that you know what you don't and just keeping humilliating yourself

 

So, please LEAVE this thread already, we don't need people like you when doing a project like this

 

Thanks

 

Relax man, no need to react like that. Just ignore them .

[imply_tha_best]

WOW... 

 

 I didnt know we had so many paper ships, they sure had ambitions to expand the navy... Whoever there can be some difficulties in completing these lines (Specially CVs). Other than the Dedalo and the Canarias conversion there isnt much more i believe. And im not sure Spain had paper ships to cover the T9-T10 BBs. 

 

But Dedalo can work at 2 tiers... one at tier 6 with some navalized "buchons" and the other as a TX if we give Dedalo her Harriers back... 

 

And good luck finding more ships! 

 

We might not get a techtree, but it would be nice to see some of these as premiums. 

 

[chamorro]

WOW... 

 

 I didnt know we had so many paper ships, they sure had ambitions to expand the navy... Whoever there can be some difficulties in completing these lines (Specially CVs). Other than the Dedalo and the Canarias conversion there isnt much more i believe. And im not sure Spain had paper ships to cover the T9-T10 BBs. 

 

But Dedalo can work at 2 tiers... one at tier 6 with some navalized "buchons" and the other as a TX if we give Dedalo her Harriers back... 

 

And good luck finding more ships! 

 

We might not get a techtree, but it would be nice to see some of these as premiums. 

 

 

Carriers are indeed a problem; as of today I've found a couple of them: Dédalo, Project 66, Project Y1, Canarias conversion,Spanish Littorio Conversion and Trieste conversion

As for Battleships, I remember seeing some obscure things for TIX and MAYYYBE TX, but I still have to go to the naval archives to confirm it

 

[Midvalley_the_Hornfreak]

Guys don't get mad i just tring to know more and leave my opinion knowing that the game still under deveopment and still missing ships and and nations.

 

Thanks for correcting me yes the bf 109 is decomissioned in 1965 you're right but still to much time for that desing in my opinion

 

Second is true that Spain had new ships i was totally wrong and my information was also wrong i wan to say thanks to show me my error 

But making a little wiki search i saw that maybe spanis navy in some aspects was better than i expected but i think by number of ships and potencial of his navy still not in the line to make a full tech tree for Spain it will be more acurate to select some ships the moder ones and set them in a way that can be unlocked in a diferent way like for example with the free XP from the Russian and German tech tree. Or England and Itaian that for what i read provided some designs to Spanish navy.

 

 Deamon93 that information is fantastic i will have lots of days studyng it really thanks

[chamorro]

Guys don't get mad i just tring to know more and leave my opinion knowing that the game still under deveopment and still missing ships and and nations.

 

Thanks for correcting me yes the bf 109 is decomissioned in 1965 you're right but still to much time for that desing in my opinion

 

Second is true that Spain had new ships i was totally wrong and my information was also wrong i wan to say thanks to show me my error 

But making a little wiki search i saw that maybe spanis navy in some aspects was better than i expected but i think by number of ships and potencial of his navy still not in the line to make a full tech tree for Spain it will be more acurate to select some ships the moder ones and set them in a way that can be unlocked in a diferent way like for example with the free XP from the Russian and German tech tree. Or England and Itaian that for what i read provided some designs to Spanish navy.

 

 Deamon93 that information is fantastic i will have lots of days studyng it really thanks

 

You are welcomed to stay here as long as you keep your manners, and, if you are going to make a critical historical statement, make sure it's correct and well based.

Spain is not full fledged to make a full tree if you only take into account real ships; with prototypes is possible to make a tree 75-80% complete (lacking some Carriers and Battleships, but I will try to find those in the spanish naval archives)

And last, I think you may intended to say "Really, thanks chamorro for that information"

[Defcon13]

Guys don't get mad i just tring to know more and leave my opinion knowing that the game still under deveopment and still missing ships and and nations.

 

Thanks for correcting me yes the bf 109 is decomissioned in 1965 you're right but still to much time for that desing in my opinion

Don't worry mate, no hard feelings. But again, it's not a Bf 109 "per se", it's a Bf109 frame (modified) with a Hispano Suiza or a Rolls Royce Merlin engine (yes, the same than the Spitfire and more british planes). About how much time... well the 'muricans used the Skyraider (also a late WW2 design) until the early 70's.

It's amazing the things you can learn in this forum... And about ships, ask Chamorro, he know everything about Spanish ships (well, he know a lot about ships, no matter from wich country )

[chamorro]

It's been a long time since the last one, but lets retake it, time for the TIX

 

HEAVY CRUISER CLASS, ANSALDO HEAVY CRUISER FOR SPAIN

Historical info sum-up

 SOON...

 

Possible stats in-game

• Survivability:
   HP: 39000 (first hull) 41500 (second hull)

   Armor: 150mm belt +30mm next to the magazines; 50mm belt next to the aft and bow;

              120mm bulkheads +90mm next to the magazines

              150mm in barbettes

              150mm in the conning tower

• Artillery:
   -Main:

  3x3 203mm guns (no model defined)

            4rpm, HE dmg: 3000 AP dmg: 3850, range: 14.8km (stock GFCS), 16km (upgraded GFCS)

  -Secondary:

   6x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 4km

• Torpedoes:
   2x4 533mm torpedo tubes equipped with W 270/533.4 x 7.2 Veloce modified torpedoes

                        range: 9km, max dmg: 12000, speed: 65 knots, 0.6 rpm

• AA:
   6x2 90/50mm OTO Model 1939 (first hull) range: 5km, dps: 60

   8x2 37/54mm Model 1938 (first hull) range: 3km, dps: 64

   4x2 20/65mm Breda Model 1935 (first hull) range: 2km, dps: 40

   2x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (first hull) range: 2km, dps: 10

   

   6x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 5km dps:36

   8x4 40/56mm Bofors Mk. I (second hull) range: 3km, dps: 144

   8x4 20/65mm Flak 18 C/43 (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 170

   4x2 20/70mm Oerlikon (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 40

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 37 knots

[chamorro]

Aaand, to finish the spanish cruiser line, the pinacle of the spanish cruisers! the TX

 

HEAVY CRUISER CLASS, PROYECTO 138 VARIACIÓN A

 

Historical info sum-up

 At some point...

 

Possible stats in-game

• Survivability:
   HP: 47500

   Armor: 150mm belt +30mm next to the magazines; 50mm belt next to the aft and bow;

              120mm bulkheads +90mm next to the magazines

              150mm in barbettes

              150mm in the conning tower

• Artillery:
   -Main:

   12x3 203/50mm guns

            4.3 rpm, HE dmg: 3100 AP dmg: 5200, range: 16km

  -Secondary:

   6x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded,  range: 4km

• Torpedoes:
    2x3 533mm torpedo tubes equipped with W 270/533.4 x 7.2 Veloce modified torpedoes

                        range: 10km, max dmg: 15500, speed: 69 knots, 0.5 rpm

• AA:
   6x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded,  range: 5km dps: 36

   8x2 76.2/50 Mark 34 guns,  range: 5km, dps: 64

   10x4 20/65mm Flak 18 C/43, range: 2.1km, dps: 200

   12x2 20/70mm Oerlikon, range: 2.1km, dps: 120

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 37 knots

[delaci76]

I asked earlier but did Espana scrap all it's ships?

 

(I dont ever remember hearing about one you could see, perhaps it has been turned into a disco in BCN, haha)

[chamorro]

I asked earlier but did Espana scrap all it's ships?

 

yes, except some submarines (which remain as museum ships)

[Pardinas_82]

I asked earlier but did Espana scrap all it's ships?

 

(I dont ever remember hearing about one you could see, perhaps it has been turned into a disco in BCN, haha)

 

The "disco-ship" is a replica of the Santisima Trinidad, and she doesnt even look like the original one.

 

Spain can have CVs too, the Dédalo and.... the Dédalo.

 

The first one is from 1922 and the second one is a former independence carrier.

[Midvalley_the_Hornfreak]

yep sorry was chamorro XD

 

[Blue_Qbe]

The more the merrier. Though WG will probably implement French and Italy first. But this doesn't look bad. Keep up the good work.

 

[MrB0mbast1c]

Very nice job guys, respect for all your hard work, I would love to sail some of those beauties!!!!

 

ARRIBA ESPANA!!!  

[Sevi117]

 

I know about such project, the Reina Victoria Eugenia I show here is the real built ship (R. Victoria Eugenia/República/Navarra)

 

(I think you are spanish) 

Lo digo como posibilidad de añadir el proyecto del navío al posible arbol como un acorazado aparte de añadirlo como crucero

[chamorro]

 

(I think you are spanish) 

Lo digo como posibilidad de añadir el proyecto del navío al posible arbol como un acorazado aparte de añadirlo como crucero

 

Yes I am spanish

 Está como uno de mis candidatos para los acorazados; todo depende de qué más cosas encuentre en mi visita a los archivos

 

 

On other points, added the projected destroyer line (bare in mind a lot of things are subect to change)

[Historynerd]

 

(I think you are spanish) 

Lo digo como posibilidad de añadir el proyecto del navío al posible arbol como un acorazado aparte de añadirlo como crucero

 

Um... you can't use Spanish in this forum; only in the dedicated section, when it will be opened.

[JapLance]

On other points, added the projected destroyer line (bare in mind a lot of things are subect to change)

 

Could you please give some information about the destroyer projects in tiers 4 and 8?

[chamorro]

 

Could you please give some information about the destroyer projects in tiers 4 and 8?

 

sure, once I confirm all the info and I get to write each ship's profile, you will see it

[HariSeldon]

I will wait until you come back from the archives, maybe you find something interesting for our Spanish navy. 

 

We have mainly project because as stated earlier:

 

-We have a Civil War.

-There was a lot of things more important than rearm the country. 

 

 

That's the same reason for the Bf109 modificated to be in use for so many years, that and that we dont have a chance to buy modern equipment because of political reasons. But hey, feel free to come and talk. By the way, I dont expect russian coastal navy to be more consistent in constructed ships than Spanish Navy is. Both have to be heavily completed by projects, otherwise we dont have also the Russian one...

[chamorro]

Well, I have some bad news to share:

The person I was speaking to as my link to the spanish naval archives has left for holidays; which means I will not be able to continue with this tech tree until he comes back.

As a result, I will leave this tech tree on stand by until September.

Worrynot, this doesn't mean I will totally stop on this; as you may have seen, there are still some historical descriptions which haven't been added. I will be working on that during August.

For info on the destroyers and any other corrections to the cruiser line; I'm afraid you will have to wait until September.

Sorry for the inconvenience