Spanish Tech Tree Proposal

[DreadArchangel]

Yeah never going to see the light of day.

[JapLance]

added the new TIII!

CRUISER CLASS, REINA VICTORIA EUGENIA

 

 

Even though technically they are the same ship, the profile and characteristics you described there belong to the 1938 version of the ship, the Navarra. The original Reina Victoria Eugenia is this one

 

 

which was armed with 9x1 6in guns (four in each side and one astern). The ship emerging from the 1938 rebuilding is so different that I would use them both in different tiers. As Navarra it would make a nice tier 4 ship (6x1 6in guns all in centerline), maybe premium due to the slow speed (although there were plans to change machinery again after the Spanish Civil War).

[Historynerd]

I don't remember where exactly (I'll try to find the reference), but I read somewhere that when they tried firing across the bridge on a battleship with staggered turrets, the result was less than positive, as it caused some degree of damage. For this reason it was determined that doing that would be restricted only to emergencies.

 

That may or may not have been the case with España, but to me it's telling.

 

But of course, there are lots of things that happened IRL that would never happen in the game. Vittorio Veneto (I think, perhaps it was Littorio) lit on fire its own seaplane (on its catapult) when firing with its rear turret, Bismarck's guns caused its radars to malfunction... we won't have any of that in game.

 

So, I believe it's up to debate...

 

Also, I do agree that the España class looks too weak to stand at Tier IV, all considered. In my opinion, she should stay at Tier III.

[chamorro]

 

 

I know, I know, but since in the game on its current form all ship's names belong to the lead ship, even if the ship rendered is not the real lead one (Kongou for example, is Hiei in the game, but still called Kongou), I decided to go aswell for the Lead ship name; however it is true that it might lead to confussion, so I will make a note in the comment section

[chamorro]

Time for the first project ship!, I know most of you don't like them, but they are needed to make the full line

 

LIGHT CRUISER CLASS PROJECT, PROYECTO 124A

 

Historical Info sum up

 Not really a lot to say here, since it is a project, but it will have her description too

 

Possible stats in-game

• Survivability:
   HP: 28000 (first hull) 30500 (second hull)

• Artillery:
   -Main:

  2x3 152/55 mm Model 1936 guns [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_6-55_m1936.htm]

  2x2 152/55 mm Model 1934 guns

                7 rpm; HE dmg: 2200, AP dmg: 3200, range 13km (stock GFCS) , 14.4km (upgraded GFCS)

   

  -Secondaries:

  3x2 90/50 mm OTO HA guns (first hull) range: 4km

   

  3x2 105/65 mm SK C/33 guns (second hull) range: 4.5 km

• Torpedoes:
   2x3 533mm equipped with Si270/533.4x7.2 "M" torpedoes

             range: 8km, max dmg: 9500; speed: 55 knots; 0.8 rpm

• AA:
   3x2 90/50 mm OTO HA guns (first hull) range: 4km, dps: 24

   8x2 37/54 Model 1932 guns (first hull) range: 3km, dps: 64 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_37mm-54_m1932.htm]

   8x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (first hull) range: 2km, dps: 40 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm]

   

  3x2 105/65 mm SK C/33 guns (second hull) range: 4.5 km, dps: 18

  4x2 37/54 Model 1932 guns (second hull) range: 3km, dps: 32 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_37mm-54_m1932.htm]

  8x4 20mm Flak 18 in Licensed built special mounts (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 160

  10x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (second hull) range: 2km, dps: 50 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm]

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 37 knots

[Deamon93]

Time for the first project ship!, I know most of you don't like them, but they are needed to make the full line

 

LIGHT CRUISER CLASS PROJECT, PROYECTO 124A

 

Historical Info sum up

 Not really a lot to say here, since it is a project, but it will have her description too

 

Possible stats in-game

• Survivability:
   HP: 28000 (first hull) 30500 (second hull)

• Artillery:
   -Main:

  2x3 152/55 mm Model 1936 guns [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_6-55_m1936.htm]

  2x2 152/55 mm Model 1934 guns

                7 rpm; HE dmg: 2200, AP dmg: 3200, range 13km (stock GFCS) , 14.4km (upgraded GFCS)

   

  -Secondaries:

  3x2 90/50 mm OTO HA guns (first hull) range: 4km

   

  3x2 105/65 mm SK C/33 guns (second hull) range: 4.5 km

• Torpedoes:
   2x3 533mm equipped with Si270/533.4x7.2 "M" torpedoes

             range: 8km, max dmg: 9500; speed: 55 knots; 0.8 rpm

• AA:
   3x2 90/50 mm OTO HA guns (first hull) range: 4km

   8x2 37/54 Model 1932 guns (first hull) range: 3km [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_37mm-54_m1932.htm]

   8x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (first hull) range: 2km [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm]

   

  3x2 105/65 mm SK C/33 guns (second hull) range: 4.5 km

  4x2 37/54 Model 1932 guns (second hull) range: 3km [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_37mm-54_m1932.htm]

  8x4 20mm Flak 18 in Licensed built special mounts (second hull) range: 2.1km

  10x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (second hull) range: 2km [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_20mm-65.htm]

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 37 knots

 

So this is pretty much a hybrid between Duca d'Aosta and Duca degli Abruzzi. I guess the placement of this particular project depends on how the Condottieri-class as a whole gets arranged. In any case it's an interesting ship indeed

[Historynerd]

 

So this is pretty much a hybrid between Duca d'Aosta and Duca degli Abruzzi. I guess the placement of this particular project depends on how the Condottieri-class as a whole gets arranged. In any case it's an interesting ship indeed

 

I have a doubt, though...

 

Are the 90 mm AA guns (I guess they are either the same or similar to those mounted on the Duilio and Littorio classes) suitable for anti-ship duties? They had the depression, alright, but do they have the punch? 90 mm is a pretty small caliber even against destroyers...

[Deamon93]

 

I have a doubt, though...

 

Are the 90 mm AA guns (I guess they are either the same or similar to those mounted on the Duilio and Littorio classes) suitable for anti-ship duties? They had the depression, alright, but do they have the punch? 90 mm is a pretty small caliber even against destroyers...

 

I don't know but those guns act as secondary armament in cruisers(just like the 100/47 did for all the older cruisers). Not the greatest gun against ship, granted, but the impact would be marginal.

[chamorro]

 

I have a doubt, though...

 

Are the 90 mm AA guns (I guess they are either the same or similar to those mounted on the Duilio and Littorio classes) suitable for anti-ship duties? They had the depression, alright, but do they have the punch? 90 mm is a pretty small caliber even against destroyers...

 

Indeed, the 90mm are not the most adequate gun to use against other ships, but since it is still down at TVI (and some TVs have similar and smaller caliber secondaries working), I've decided to count them as secondaries, they wouldn't be amazing at that job though (even though they can still cause slight damage)

[Midvalley_the_Hornfreak]

 

Sorry but spain not doned naval battles and the naval power of spain from 1850 more or less to actual is nothing compared to any nation we don't had naval power in Cuba why they want to do crap old ships that can't measure forces vs for example itally or france.

 

 

[Deamon93]

Sorry but spain not doned naval battles and the naval power of spain from 1850 more or less to actual is nothing compared to any nation we don't had naval power in Cuba why they want to do crap old ships that can't measure forces vs for example itally or france.

 

 

First things first: Spanish ships did see action, although against each other in the Spanish Civil War(since the Republicans and the Nationalists got a chunk of the original Navy).

 

In any case naval engagements don't mean anything as far as picking nations are concerned. Moreover the whole point of this topic isn't having Spain next but to bring attention to some ships which most of the people don't know.

[chamorro]

Sorry but spain not doned naval battles and the naval power of spain from 1850 more or less to actual is nothing compared to any nation we don't had naval power in Cuba why they want to do crap old ships that can't measure forces vs for example itally or france.

 

 

Sorry, were do you see older ships than the ones we have right know in game?

Your statement is wrong and clearly no based in any kind of racional historical proof;

as I said, keep this topic clean, limit yourself to constructive feedback, and if that is not good enough for you,

you are my guest to take away your unhistorical facts and leave

 

Thank you very much

[placeholder001]

Sorry but spain not doned naval battles and the naval power of spain from 1850 more or less to actual is nothing compared to any nation we don't had naval power in Cuba why they want to do crap old ships that can't measure forces vs for example itally or france.

 

 

Even if you were right, did the russian navy participate that much in the war's? compared to UK USA JPN and others?

And otherwise we have $#*!load of paper ships and remember yamato never participated in a battle...

Im sorry sir but grounded due to not applicable information...

 

[Historynerd]

Sorry but spain not doned naval battles and the naval power of spain from 1850 more or less to actual is nothing compared to any nation we don't had naval power in Cuba why they want to do crap old ships that can't measure forces vs for example itally or france.

 

 

Actually, Spain's naval power was still seen as considerable on a later date.

 

During the Virginius affair (a diplomatic crisis between the United States and Spain), a Spanish ironclad (wish I knew its name, but I found no sources detailing it) was in New York harbour; the US Navy, which had fell in a period of neglect and disrepair after the Civil War, admittedly didn't have anything that could stand up to her. In fact, an inquiry ended up making the startling discovery that even a naval war with a Latin American country would have seen the US as the weakest party.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginius_Affair

[daki]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition - oops the Spanish navy to be implemented

 

[Deamon93]

 

Even if you were right, did the russian navy participate that much in the war's? compared to UK USA JPN and others?

And otherwise we have $#*!load of paper ships and remember yamato never participated in a battle...

Im sorry sir but grounded due to not applicable information...

 

 

Yamato took part in the naval engagements around the Philippines. Granted it's not much but still something. Besides naval engagements don't mean anything otherwise Bismarck would be added eons later than Littorio because Bismarck and Tirpitz compared to Littorio and Vittorio Veneto saw minimal action. We know that it won't be the case, otherwise a rebellion would start because reasons.

[chamorro]

ok, time for the OTHER TVI cruiser!

HEAVY CRUISER CLASS, PROYECTO 131A

 

Historical Info sum up

 again, not much to see here, but will come soon™

 

Possible stats in-game

 

• Survivability:
   HP: 27000 (stock hull) 30800 (second hull)

• Artillery:
   -Main:

    3x2 8"/50 (203mm) Mk.VIII guns

               5rpm; HE dmg: 3400, AP dmg: 4800; range 14km (stock GFCS) 15.2 (upgraded GFCS)

   

  -Secondary:

  6x2 120/45mm Mak F Vickers-Armsstrong DP guns (both hulls) range: 5 km [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSpain_47-45_mkf.htm]

• Torpedoes:
   2x4 533mm torpedo tubes equipped with Si270/533.4x7.2 "M" torpedoes

             range: 8km, max dmg: 9500; speed: 55 knots; 0.7 rpm

• AA:
  6x2 120/45mm Mak F Vickers-Armsstrong DP guns (both hulls) range: 5 km, dps: 36 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSpain_47-45_mkf.htm]

  2x2 76.2/45mm Vickers DP gun (first hull) range: 3.6km, dps: 8

  4x2 37/83mm SK C/30 guns (first hull) range: 3km, dps: 32

  8x1 13.2mm Hotchkiss guns (first hull) range: 1.5km, dps: 5

   

  2x2 88/76mm SK C/32 guns (second hull) range: 4km, dps: 16 [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_88mm-76_skc32.htm]

  9x4 20/65mm Flak 18 C/43 in special mount (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 180

  10x1 20/70mm Oerlikon guns (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 50

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 32 knots

[chamorro]

and now, the one who everybody was waiting for! the TVII heavy cruiser, Canarias!

 

HEAVY CRUISER CLASS, CANARIAS

 

Historical info sum up

 this one is important, so it will come sooner™

 

Possible stats in-game

 

 

 

• Survivability:
   HP: 34000 (first hull) 38000 (second and third hulls)

• Artillery:
  -Main:

   4x2 203/50 mm BL Model 1924 Mark D (all hulls) [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSpain_8-50_m1924.htm]

                             4 rpm, HE dmg: 3400, AP dmg: 4800, range: 14.9km (stock GFCS) 16km (stock GFCS)

  -Secondaries:

  8x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns unshielded (first hull) range: 5km

  8x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 5km

  8x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (third hull) range: 5km

• Torpedoes:
   4x3 533mm torpedo tubes equipped with Si270/533.4x7.2 "M" torpedoes

             range: 8km, max dmg: 9500; speed: 55 knots; 0.7 rpm

• AA:
   8x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns unshielded (first hull) range: 5km, dps: 24

   4x2 76.2/45mm Vickers DP gun (first hull) range: 3.6km, dps: 16

   6x1 20/65mm guns (first hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 30

   

   8x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 5km, dps: 24

   4x2 40/56mm Mk 1 (second hull) 3km, dps: 36

   10x1 20/70mm Oerlikon guns (second hull) 2.1km, dps: 50

   

   8x2 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (third hull) range: 5 km, dps: 48

   4x1 76.2/50 Mark 34 guns (third hull) range: 5km, dps: 16 [http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_3-50_mk27-33-34.htm]

   3x4  20/65mm Flak 18 C/43 in special mount (second hull) range: 2.1km, dps: 60

   2x2 40/56mm Mk 1 (third hull) 3km, dps: 18

   8x2 20/70mm Oerlikon guns (third hull) 2.1km, dps: 80

 

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 33knots (first and second hulls) 34.5 (third hull)

 

 

 

[Karolus_V]

Regarding the España, elevating the guns might solve the mystery.

 

Good work FTR.

[chamorro]

Time for the TVIII, a grown up Cleveland!

LIGHT CRUISER CLASS, PROYECTO 684A

 

Historical info sum up

 

 

Possible stats in-game

 

• Survivability:
  HP: 40000 (first hull) 41500 (second hull)

  Armor: 150mm belt +30mm next to the magazines; 50mm belt next to the aft and bow;

              120mm bulkheads +90mm next to the magazines

              150mm in barbettes

              150mm in the conning tower

• Artillery:
   -Main:

            4x3 152/65mm Model 1936 (all hulls) [http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_6-55_m1936.htm]

                           6rpm; HE dmg: 2400, AP dmg: 3200, range: 14.3km (stock GFCS) 15km (upgraded GFCS)

   -Secondary:

            12x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 3 km

• Torpedoes:
   2x4 533mm torpedo tubes equipped with W 270/533.4 x 7.2 Veloce modified torpedoes

                        range: 9km, max dmg: 12000, speed: 58 knots, 0.6 rpm

• AA:
   12x1 90/50mm OTO Model 1939 (first hull) range: 4km, dps: 60

   8x2 37/54mm Model 1938 (first hull) range: 3km, dps: 64

   4x2 20/65mm Breda Model 1935 (first hull) range: 2km, dps: 40

   2x1 20/65mm Breda Model 1940 (first hull) range: 2km, dps: 10

   

   12x1 120/45mm Mark IX guns shielded (second hull) range: 5km, dps: 36

   8x2 40/56mm Bofors Mk. I (second hull) range: 3km, dps: 144

   6x4 20/65mm Flak 18 C/43 (second hull) range: 2km, dps: 120

   6x2 20/70mm Oerlikon (second hull) range: 2km, dps: 60

• Manouverability:
   Speed: 37 knots

   Installed power: 200,000shp

[Aldramelech]

Really interesting stuff, I confess to not knowing anything about the Spanish Navy post Trafalgar so this has been a bit of an education for me. 

[Sevi117]

The Reina Victoria Eugenia class proyect was a BB:

https://foronaval.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/del-republica-al-navarra-historia-de-una-transformacion/

[chamorro]

The Reina Victoria Eugenia class proyect was a BB:

https://foronaval.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/del-republica-al-navarra-historia-de-una-transformacion/

 

I know about such project, the Reina Victoria Eugenia I show here is the real built ship (R. Victoria Eugenia/República/Navarra)

[Midvalley_the_Hornfreak]

 

Sorry, were do you see older ships than the ones we have right know in game?

Your statement is wrong and clearly no based in any kind of racional historical proof;

as I said, keep this topic clean, limit yourself to constructive feedback, and if that is not good enough for you,

you are my guest to take away your unhistorical facts and leave

 

Thank you very much

 

if you look at the naval foce before and after the republic, you will see that compared to the any contry that has taked part in WW2 are outdated.

Spain from 1850 army hat lost all of its power and have also equipment out dated.

Take for example the bf109 in spain a plane from WW2 have been active until 1980 

Seem appened with naval power Spain had always out dated equipment so is useles to try to make it in the game.

 

 

[Midvalley_the_Hornfreak]

 

Even if you were right, did the russian navy participate that much in the war's? compared to UK USA JPN and others?

And otherwise we have $#*!load of paper ships and remember yamato never participated in a battle...

Im sorry sir but grounded due to not applicable information...

 

 

And yes the Russian fleet had participated in naval warfare before 1939 against japan

And the navy was impotrat because they were getting support from USA and UK by sea also he submarine fleet sunk a considerable number of German ships