Carriers are OP, Battleships are OP, Cruisers are OP, Destroyers are OP

[Galadul]

If they are not counted why are the results of my Hosho and Zuiho so different (1491 exp vs 2300). Simpy the WR? Well might be.

Also I don't know why you insisted on comparing my CV stats with your BB stats, I told you to look at tier 4 where I was matched vs other CVs in most battles. I rushed the tiers and the first days, so from tier 5-6 up it was sealclubing as most of the time I was the only CV in the battle hunting Sims and Atagos that give big amounts of exp as thety are tier higher. CV in 1 vs 0 situation will farm lots more damage and exp and that's why the current stats are considered useless for balancing purposes. Till now they probably stats from only tier 4-5 in normal MM battles.

 

The fact that they can simply farm is a huge part of the massive design mistake that is CVs. Not with infinite players and infinite CV players will you ever get perfect MM - and even then it's just about who takes out the other CVs first - then it's farming time again.

 

If the devs have truly stated on RU forum that they are happy with class balance as is, then I have little hope for the longevity of this game, sadly. You'd think they would have had some experience to draw on when it came to designing uncounterable god-classes, but..alas.

[WoTMarc]

By the way..... When this game is based on RL, so that the carriers have to be better than some otehr classes and have to deal more damage etc.

Why do they have a so great camo then? Becasue of Balance issues or why? Give them the ability to kill all and stay unspotted to not be focused at the beginning?

[Vulgarny]

What great Camo? I got spotted from 14,5 km away in Hakuryu, Midway is like 17,5 km.

[WoTMarc]

What great Camo? I got spotted from 14,5 km away in Hakuryu, Midway is like 17,5 km.

 

Hmmmm many of them were invisible when on 10km range.....

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Hmmmm many of them were invisible when on 10km range.....

 

So it is 1 - 2 - many? There are exactly three carriers that fit that criteria.

[Red_Bull_Warrior_]

you think its funny when CV man.drops torps&50m from your bow When

the pop up??

 

When jap.Cv's ONE shot BB with 65k HP time afther time& the are proud to have a 400k damage game & the are not OP..??? GIVE ME A BREAK OK.

Lower the damage from torps not gone make it,you have to set the distance more far away for man drops to make it possibel for ships to dodge a few torps.

Its a game for fun&dont make it a game for bully's

 

If t stays like this i hope players start to teamkill the cv ships as the take all the fun from ,it out

 

[Ishiro32]

IJN can not ONE shot BB with 65k HP unless he gets mag detonation.

It is true that on low tier 2 TBs are enough to sink tier IV BB with flooding, but situation changes with each tier rather fast. Please get your facts straight before complaining.

[Fisk02]

The reason CVs are imbalanced are because of their efficiency ratio compared to the risk they are taking. 

They're on top of the food chain; little to fear with a high amount of power. It doesn't help that they are the class least affected by RNG as well (the reason for their power).

People are frustrated because they're taking heavy damage from something they can't fight back against.

 

This is the stats of someone who played more BB than CV in CBT: http://puu.sh/iUEYh/3cdf8d6557.jpg

I'd argue he is equally good at both classes yet he's making twice the amount of experience on the CV if you compare his tier 5s.

I highly doubt it will chance much as matchmaking evens out, CVs are still going to be on top of the food chain which really isn't fun at all since there is so little you can do to stop them as any other class. 

 

Usually when you're not taking any risks in a competitive game your reward is quite low. Currently this is not the case.

This is sometimes balanced by the factor of skill but I highly doubt playing carrier is such a hard feat to justify having so much power.

 

If I saw any other class have an average XP of above 2500 I'd definitely be impressed since it is not an easy feat at all. With carriers it's mostly just people who know what they're doing.

I've been carrying most of the games I've played since I have the experience from closed beta, but I can never achieve the same avg XP carrier players do (even if I am equally as good or better) which annoys me since they're playing a so much more safe game.

 

I'm not sure how they could balance it but I really want to see some of the dumb crap go like planes turning on a dime in such a short time and how ridiculously hard it is to see if a TB is dropping his torpedoes. (Planes did not turn this fast and they still don't)

Either make it way harder or way less rewarding. By rough statistics it's currently twice as rewarding as other classes when playing on the same skill level as well as being a lot more safe.

My suggestion is to punish plane squadrons a lot more when they are given a new order but way more things can be done.

 

[ttchip]

My suggestion is to punish plane squadrons a lot more when they are given a new order but way more things can be done.

 

- Change CA's AA DPS distribution to have more DPS at longer ranges while having lower overall AA DPS. Such a change would facilitate more efficient escorting duties and encourage teamplay overall.

- Decrease the AA DPS bonus provided by the AA ability on CAs and CLs (currently it's a 6x multiplier as far as I know) and increase the base AA DPS. As is, without the ability I cannot hope to shoot down more than three planes out of a 24 plane zerg as a New Orleans with full-AA loadout against an equally tiered Shokaku. The situation is less dire with the ability running. This means that, as is, even AA CAs are reliant on an ability with less than 20% uptime for both AA DPS and the panic effect. Meanwhile, shot down squadrons replenish in less than a minute and high tier CVs have enough reserves to not give too many sh**s about losing a squadron or two to an angry CA trying to cover his tomato teammates that're running away from the CA in question.

- Reward people properly for shooting down planes. That change is pretty much self explanatory and would incentivise even CVs to actually play the fighter-heavy loadouts. However, those loadouts have their own issues as I've seen described by Cronos, for example.

 

Since Wargaming's design decisions are driven by statistics alone, none of these discussions matter in any way and pretty much serve only for people to vent their frustration.

[lebed0s]

Not to mention CV credits farming ability as the risk of taking damage is so much lower. 

When you lose in higher tier game in regular ship you will pay huge amount of credits for repairs. CVs usually stay alive even in lost games as smart CV captain can easily avoid taking damage and just let enemy team cap at the end. Very often there is no time to hunt enemy CVs across the map and you can still make nice profit of lost games.

 

Repair cost punishment for CVs needs to be much higher also credit punishment for lost planes needs to be taken into account so CV can´t be ultimate credit maker as it is now.  

[ttchip]

Repair cost punishment for CVs needs to be much higher also credit punishment for lost planes needs to be taken into account so CV can´t be ultimate credit maker as it is now.  

 

Just treat lost planes like hitpoints and have them be the "ammo resupply" after each battle. Lower the CV's own repair cost to account for that and make "losing all planes" + "having your CV destroyed" - with it being weighted towards the loss-of-all-planes part - a tad more expensive than losing a regular ship + the associated ammo cost because CVs rarely lose all their reserves in higher tiers.

 

Edit: This is actually one aspect I'm the least worried about. Wargaming has been pretty good about balancing credit earning potential between the classes of vehicles in World of Tanks and extracting and interpreting this data from the servers really isn't difficult.

[Ishiro32]

Not to mention CV credits farming ability as the risk of taking damage is so much lower. 

When you lose in higher tier game in regular ship you will pay huge amount of credits for repairs. CVs usually stay alive even in lost games as smart CV captain can easily avoid taking damage and just let enemy team cap at the end. Very often there is no time to hunt enemy CVs across the map and you can still make nice profit of lost games.

 

Repair cost punishment for CVs needs to be much higher also credit punishment for lost planes needs to be taken into account so CV can´t be ultimate credit maker as it is now.  

 

What the hell are you even talking about. Can you please stop talking about CVs, because it is kinda getting annoying. 

 

Let's not talk about what do you think credit rewards should be, because I am kinda decent with CVs and you know how much credits I have? I will tell you that I had to play some RJ games to gather money for the upgrades for Shokaku... stock shokaku is horrible and I was getting really bad games in her as a results and I was not able to get money that way. 

 

As for your other idea, once again really backwards and something that would work against class and healthy gameplay. Increasing punishment would just mean people would be more affraid, will hug boarder more and you will kill them less. Result? They will still get the same ammount of credits and game is less fun for everybody. If CVs are getting much more money than others this either might be caused by balance issue, or if they simply get to much money, just adjust rewards.

[ttchip]

Let's not talk about what do you think credit rewards should be, because I am kinda decent with CVs and you know how much credits I have? I will tell you that I had to play some RJ games to gather money for the upgrades for Shokaku... stock shokaku is horrible and I was getting really bad games in her as a results and I was not able to get money that way.

 

That's an issue with module cost in general. Only at mid tiers is it possible to make enough dough to pay for the upgraded modules you've unlocked in that time and it is true for all ships. CVs suffer from it more with them having more stuff to unlock.

 

Talking from personal experience with the USN CA line, I can tell you that I did not make enough money in OBT to pay for the three upgrades I could unlock on the New Orleans while unlocking said upgrades.

[Sharana]

Not to mention CV credits farming ability as the risk of taking damage is so much lower. 

When you lose in higher tier game in regular ship you will pay huge amount of credits for repairs. CVs usually stay alive even in lost games as smart CV captain can easily avoid taking damage and just let enemy team cap at the end. Very often there is no time to hunt enemy CVs across the map and you can still make nice profit of lost games.

 

Repair cost punishment for CVs needs to be much higher also credit punishment for lost planes needs to be taken into account so CV can´t be ultimate credit maker as it is now.  

 

CVs farm pretty good up to tier 8 and that's probably intentional to make more people play CVs. On tier 9 and 10 where all ships have problems with the credits they gave very big service prices. I play ~90K for service and lost planes without using premium consumables or camo, when I die (happens now and then) the total cost is ~230K. The high tier CVs farmed a lot in CBT, because they noticed die rare and it was fixed.

[WoTMarc]

CV playing in a nutshell: "No risk , but fun" or better "No pain, much gain".......

[Snortsch]

 ...It doesn't help that they are the class least affected by RNG as well (the reason for their power).

People are frustrated because they're taking heavy damage from something they can't fight back against.

...

 

You are absolutely right, I never thought of that. Torpedoes are not subject to RNG, neither the their aim (no torpedoes landing behind and in front of the enemy ship),

nor is the damage different depending where they hit, they are usually all just treated as a citadel hits for full damage.

[lebed0s]

 

 I will tell you that I had to play some RJ games to gather money for the upgrades for Shokaku... stock shokaku is horrible and I was getting really bad games in her as a results and I was not able to get money that way. 

 

 

How terrible. Like the other ships dont struggle to get credits for their upgrades? + you pay more for repairs, as you are damaged way more often than CVs

 

Currently playing CVs on middle tiers prints the same amount credits as playing premium ships of same tiers if you are at least half decent. I know few people that started playing middle tier CVs just to feed their T8s+ 

Situation changes with tiers but economy on middle tier is still way more favourable for CVs than to other ships.  

 

 

As for border hugging. All CVs I have met at close range did this anyway. So whats your point? They are gonna do it even more? 

Haha. 

[Sharana]

SPG farmed the same way long ago in WoT, doesn't mean they don't know that and won't fix it when they add premium CVs or want to start selling other premium ships.

It's more likely a move to make more people play CVs (5-7 tier) and solve the MM problems.

[Ishiro32]

I need to take a nap. Sleep depravation really isn't good for me.

 

WG has data, If they find that CVs are earning to much, they can easily adjust their reward system or increase cost of servicing planes. This is strictly economic problem and is not related the first post that was made here in any way. But regarding economy, if you do half decent in CV and get a lot of exp, you get also a lot of credits so you can progress normaly. Maybe low tiers need a look at that, but I don't think there is some huge issue here to begin with. Rewards system for all classes seems a bit off to be honest.

 

For border hugging. Your idea promotes it so they will never learn to stop doing that. Also it is usually treated as bad game design to balancce something by punishing players. Your idea would impact mainly bad players or unlucky ones also... it is just plain bad. The same as your ideas from before, which would create miserable experience for CVs and in the long run probably would break the game unless fixed.

[Galadul]

I need to take a nap. Sleep depravation really isn't good for me.

 

WG has data, If they find that CVs are earning to much, they can easily adjust their reward system or increase cost of servicing planes. This is strictly economic problem and is not related the first post that was made here in any way. But regarding economy, if you do half decent in CV and get a lot of exp, you get also a lot of credits so you can progress normaly. Maybe low tiers need a look at that, but I don't think there is some huge issue here to begin with. Rewards system for all classes seems a bit off to be honest.

 

For border hugging. Your idea promotes it so they will never learn to stop doing that. Also it is usually treated as bad game design to balancce something by punishing players. Your idea would impact mainly bad players or unlucky ones also... it is just plain bad. The same as your ideas from before, which would create miserable experience for CVs and in the long run probably would break the game unless fixed.

 

Not speaking specifically to his ideas, but imho the game is currently broken by how CVs perform. Something about them needs to change. 

[Fisk02]

CVs are indeed broken in their current form, not only speaking about the overpoweredness of IJN CVs as statistics will tell you (most CV players have twice or more the avg xp in their CVs compared to all other classes).

 

There is very little incentitive to play US CVs right now but even if they do increase rewards it's hardly fun at all because of how brainless fighters work.

 

And let's not get started about boarder hugging your planes untill you find the enemy CV. Too simple gameplay mechanics are usually followed by really dumb strategies.

 

It's hard to fix their core gameplay issues with just small adjustements here and there (it's a RTS with 3 different unit types) which is why people just want them reworked or similar. Saying that is way too optimistic however as WG probably will not bother.

 

It's going to be hard to find a good placement on the balance scale simply because of how their gameplay works. One small adjustment or meta change and suddenly CVs might become useless.

 

We all (hopefully) just want all classes to be balanced across the board. My personal opinion however is that CVs should not be able to perform as well as other classes simply because of how safe their game is. This is after all a game and not real life.

 

[Ishiro32]

As for the boarder hugging of planes and whole snipe CV and pocket CA, simplest resolution would be to go back to the idea of fuel. I have no idea how it worked in alpha (I hope it was like in SupCom so when aircraft has no fuel it just moves 1/4 of it's own speed and can't attack) and they have discarded that idea once so there is low chance of going back to it, but positivies of it are immense.

CVs can not hug map edge anymore to be useful
There is a reason to scout best targets
No more brainless lighting up DDs with fighter wings
Another statistic that you can use for balance or adding national peculiarities

Would set a skill celling higher and honestly we need that.

Really wish I could have played in alpha when that thing was ingame. Oh well... Right now they look they are more worried about small CV playerbase, so I don't think they rework them into something more complex and more fun and honestly I expect some nerfs to low tiers, but really small or if they nerf damage they will buff them somewhere else to encourage new players  to pick them up.

[Ragoutrabbit]

Just had a game of 2 CV VS 1, 3 clevelands including me tried too protect our 1 CV even 3 clevelands poping defencive fire couldn't protect the CV from even one pass.

[Dalsem]

 

How follow the path of the projectile (camera)?

[WoTMarc]

 

How follow the path of the projectile (camera)?

 

As long as you havent changed your controls its Z.