Ectar

Carriers are OP, Battleships are OP, Cruisers are OP, Destroyers are OP

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Is There a way to make this topic a Terms and Agreements like reading before the game? 

But, like you HAVE to read every single word in it to accept.

 

 


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So chill out, don't panic and enjoy the discussions here on the forums.  Don't expect ships or entire classes to be removed because you had a bad game. It happens to everyone. Our Alpha Testers and Closed Beta Testers are a great bunch of people who are happy to help people willing to accept the help. It's a brave new world out there Captains. I wish you all smooth sailing and I'll see you out there on the high seas.

 

This needs to be bold, caps, everything.

 

Awesome post. :honoring:

 

 


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yea really good post Ectar i also wish it was mandatory to read this before atleast posting on the forum :D

 


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Is There a way to make this topic a Terms and Agreements like reading before the game? 

But, like you HAVE to read every single word in it to accept.

 

 

 

That would be pretty damn nice honestly. But I doubt it could be implemented.

 

Reading stickied topics is an age old skill of avoidance. Meaning people are super skilled at not doing it unfortunately. Those that do anyway are also the people the most unlikely to whine like a madman in the first place.


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Forum is severely OP nerf now plox!! or i will not buy any of them goldz and you will be hungry. Ha!

 

On a serious note, it will calm down, some people will realize that standing still in a BB is a bad thing, those who won't will eventually get tired of posting nerf plox threads and everything will soon degenderate to WOT forums level..

Edited by painless

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AA is very weak. I have seen several times planes flying over their target and then turn inside AA range, turn yet again and drop torpedoes . Without a single plane being shot down. Its just not realistic at all and is very forgiving to errors made by the cv player


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With the opening of open beta testing, many new players are experiencing the game for the first time. Before creating a topic, I'd like to ask players to take note of a few specific threads:

 

[basics] AA mechanics - Why is this thread important? - It helps players understand how the AA system works and to use it to your advantage when defending against torpedo and dive bombers.

[Guide] Basic CV gameplay - Why is this thread important?  - It not only teaches you how to play carriers (and understand how complex it can get) but also teaches you how to handle carrier attacks as you can learn how carrier players will try to attack you.

 

 

Hey,

 

Thanks for the above post. I really would like to read those linked article but are they in the previous closed beta thread as I get an error when trying to access them. Many thanks Capt'n.


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Hey,

 

Thanks for the above post. I really would like to read those linked article but are they in the previous closed beta thread as I get an error when trying to access them. Many thanks Capt'n.

 

Fixed now, the Newcomer forum section should be visible for all new players joining with OBT.

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Hi,

 

There are a lot of topics concerning the "imbalance" of certain classes, many of them are not valid and more of an emotional response to personal bad experience ingame. But there is one class that is seriously unbalanced right now and if you take a look at statistics, is supported by data - the class of CVs. I think it's wrong to blame lack of knowledge of experience for the current issues, no video or tutorial will help experienced players with hundreds of battles to overcome the problems they have right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for CVs in a naval game but you need to tweak them. I'm playing mostly BBs, a friend of mine usually plays DDs and so we team up a lot of time. Many people complain about the obvious disadvantage of non-CV ships around Tier III-V that get wrecked by CVs due to lack of AA and experience. But even in higher Tier games the team with more (or the only CV) wins, in most cases. I think the question we need to ask ourselves is, what is the role we want them to play? Most think it's scouting and counter to BBs and I agree. Not hunting CAs and DDs.

 

Why is that so "overpowered" at the moment?

 

1. MM - unbalanced MM throws in lonely CVs, currently often 2-3 Tiers above the other ships, rendering their poor AA useless and no other CV to counter them

2. Carriers have no risk they take. After Tier V they are so fast that they can easily adapt and due to their scouting ability they're able to set course the right way.

3. Scouting - CVs can simply put a fighter group over a DD and take him out of the game, happens a lot

4. Dropping torpedoes at close range with low activation time - enables CVs to hunt down DDs and BBs are almost doomed to death, even experienced pilots due to their turning radius and ruder shifting time

5. airplane layout - too much focus on TB and no incentive to choose more fighters to counter other CVs if there are some ingame

 

I'm sure the lack of higher tier ships besides the premium ones is playing its part in this, but there's cetainly something wrong with the class when you take a look at the high tier CV pilots. Winrates beyond 70 up to 90+ percent, 2.5-x sunk ships per battle, 3.000 exp per battle are nothing uncommon there. It's unhealthy for the game and the morale. Yes, teamplay helps migitating the "power" of the CV, but in my opinion it can't be the goal of WoWS to put so much emphasis on one shipclass that it is able to dictate the battle (when your team has to stick together and the enemy can cap all bases, killing off your DDs who try to get them).

 

What could be done to counter this?

 

1. change the MM mechanics

  - take CVs out of Tier I - IV battles or ramp up the AA for these classes, we're open beta now, lot of seal clubbing going on

  - only same Tier CVs and no 1x CVs vs. no CV battles anymore

2. I'd be happy to see a nerf to the speed / concealment of CVs, but that's up to you. It's ridiculous imo when a CV is able to outrun a destroyer

3. change something about the scouting vs. DDs, but the MM balance should take care of "spare" fighters

4. increase the spread, drop range or / and activation range of the torpedoes, I'm not saying you should be able to avoid torpedoes, but if you're aware of them at least give you a chance to dodge most of it - and hunting a decent DD pilot shouldn't be viable

5. force CVs to choose more "balanced" squads on their CV

 

This is of course just my personal impression and opinion, but I do think something needs to be done. Teamplay and lack of experience may apply for lower Tier battles, but these issues arise in Tier VI+ the same way and the statistics of the CV captains prove to be similar on these higher classes.

Edited by Crysantos

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1. change the MM mechanics

  - take CVs out of Tier I - IV battles or ramp up the AA for these classes, we're open beta now, lot of seal clubbing going on

  - only same Tier CVs and no 1x CVs vs. no CV battles anymore

2. I'd be happy to see a nerf to the speed / concealment of CVs, but that's up to you. It's ridiculous imo when a CV is able to outrun a destroyer

3. change something about the scouting, but the MM balance should take care of "spare" fighters

4. increase the spread, drop range or / and activation range of the torpedoes, I'm not saying you should be able to avoid torpedoes, but if you're aware of them at least give you a chance to dodge most of it - and hunting a decent DD pilot shouldn't be viable

5. force CVs to choose more "balanced" squads on their CV

 

This is of course just my personal impression and opinion, but I do think something needs to be done. Teamplay and lack of experience may apply for lower Tier battles, but these issues arise in Tier VI+ the same way and the statistics of the CV captains prove to be similar on these higher classes.

 

To 1:

Lower Tier ships won't meet a CV unless they are dumb enough to make a Division with a T4 ship. T3 ships are the first to meet T4 CVs.

And no, only CV vs CV is just not possible yet on all tiers, since there are just not enough CV players. Do you want to punish CV players with very long waiting times until the MM finally finds an opponent? If yes, sorry, but that's just bad manners from your side.

To 2:

CVs are traditionally FAST. Pure and simple. They just CAN outrun other ships.

Also, CVs are flat. You don't see them good from the sides, but good from Air.

To 3:

There were already a lot of discussions about spotting by planes. No change planned atm afaik. And, unless you are talking about High Tier, the CV only has one FC or max 2 FC, which can spot. The map is big enough to still have place for your DD to be unspotted.

To 4:

Spread is already to big for IJN, and activation range is fine too. The approach was changed at the end of OBT and apparently it was too much of a change in the test, so it was undone.

Hunting a decent DD skipper should still be possible, if the skill of the CV skipper is high enough. You can't just say "I play DD, I'm immune to CVs"

To 5:

Oh great, just don't give any choice to CV skippers. You really have your unsocial day, eh?

 

 

 

On another note just for you: There are already a lot of CV Balancing Threads on the forum. How about using one of those for mentioning your points? Since they were already discussed.


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To 1:

Lower Tier ships won't meet a CV unless they are dumb enough to make a Division with a T4 ship. T3 ships are the first to meet T4 CVs.

And no, only CV vs CV is just not possible yet on all tiers, since there are just not enough CV players. Do you want to punish CV players with very long waiting times until the MM finally finds an opponent? If yes, sorry, but that's just bad manners from your side.

To 2:

CVs are traditionally FAST. Pure and simple. They just CAN outrun other ships.

Also, CVs are flat. You don't see them good from the sides, but good from Air.

To 3:

There were already a lot of discussions about spotting by planes. No change planned atm afaik. And, unless you are talking about High Tier, the CV only has one FC or max 2 FC, which can spot. The max is big enough to still have place for your DD to be unspotted.

To 4:

Spread is already to big for IJN, and activation range is fine too. The approach was changed at the end of OBT and apparently it was too much of a change in the test, so it was undone.

Hunting a decent DD skipper should still be possible, if the skill of the CV skipper is high enough. You can't just say "I play DD, I'm immune to CVs"

To 5:

Oh great, just don't give any choice to CV skippers. You really have your unsocial day, eh?

 

 

 

On another note just for you: There are already a lot of CV Balancing Threads on the forum. How about using one of those for mentioning your points? Since they were already discussed.

 

I'm looking for a solution that suits all players, that's all. I'm tired of being told that CVs are fine and the people are just unexperienced or don't play as a team - we're not and we play as a team, doesn't help with the current issues mentioned above. The CV pilot doesn't need a good team to survive, but the enemy is forced to do so. But I guess that's very social, why am I even trying to post a constructive thing about this when I get to hear the same old stories of people who're driving CVs. Am I wrong about the stats? It is social when you ask everybody else to adapt but you're not willing to adapt when there's a lack of CV players to fill up fair teams for matches? Isn't unsocial to make use of an obvious unbalanced overpowered shipclass at the moment? I'm pretty sure the Taiho captains are VERY aware of the current issues and that they're pretty much alone on that Tier - instead of choosing a lower Tier ship they choose to swing their torp hammer on lower Tier ships.

 

So I guess I'm unsocial when I'm asking for a solution that enables the majority of players to enjoy fair and fun games, "lowering" the fun of top tier captains enjoying to use their top-Tier ships to pat their stats. Why I'm posting here? Quite frankly because people are told to shape up instead of complaining about imbalance, even when it's a valid complaint. But meh, probably just me spinning wild tales about this non-existing issue.


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AA is very weak. I have seen several times planes flying over their target and then turn inside AA range, turn yet again and drop torpedoes . Without a single plane being shot down. Its just not realistic at all and is very forgiving to errors made by the cv player

 

AA of - for example - battleships WAS very weak. It took lots of luck and projectiles to shoot down a plane or two. Unless you are talking CAs - for whom airplanes are easy prey - it is really supposed to be this weak, more of a support or a chance.

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Can we please avoid turning the thread into a "This is how I think XYZ should be balance" thread. The intention here is to help other players and reassure them. Not to debate the balance of different classes.


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Wow just wow you make a post to try stop nerf posts so they then posts there nerf crud here....need to get some beer and crisps lets see where this goes.


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This video is from 0.3.1.0 PT server and this CV was not added to the game after the test, because it was too OP. After that it was nerfed 3 times in 3 different patches. Now it has max 3 TBs (instead of 5) with huge spread.

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Ectar is right. This stuff needs to be read by pretty much everyone because it is so tiring reading threads of "This is OP" followed by "this is why it's not OP".... "This is what WG should do..." before you finally get to the most recent messages stating they were aboard HMS Victory so WG should listen to them. It is not feedback. Plus good help for the newcomers of Open testing!


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Thank you Ectar ! :honoring:

 

You might think about putting a link to the spotting mechanics in your post, too.


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Best post on this forum since Manly guide to Battleships. I only hope it will teach at least a few ppl sth.


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